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Energy Owners Thread - Page 1454

post #43591 of 51489
The velodyne I have rocks this room like crazy on 30% gain... Do i really need a 12 or 15??? I just want a bit lower frequency and something tighter!! But this current sub rattles everything !!
Edited by benca1 - 1/22/13 at 8:07pm
post #43592 of 51489
You can ask anybody who's upgraded from a small (8 or 10") sub to a 12 or 15" ID sub and they will all say that it goes lower and is much tighter. Instead of things rattling and the sub dancing across the room, the bigger subs will pressurize the room, making you feel the clean bass. With a pair of subs you can set the crossover higher without easy localization. In my living room I have the veritas 2.2i's crossover @ 100 and 2 seaton subM's handling the low stuff. I'm still breaking in my 5.2's. I'm thinking tomorrow ill run them with the epik legend and play with the crossover. And then Friday night run them with the subM's.
post #43593 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

The velodyne I have rocks this room like crazy on 30% gain... Do i really need a 12 or 15??? I just want a bit lower frequency and something tighter!! But this current sub rattles everything !!

One reason budget subs rock everything is that they produce a lot of distortion in the low frequencies. When you step up to a better sounding sub, you definitely notice more refined bass effects.

That LFM-1 Plus is definitely a good sub. However, if you are happy with how much volume the Velodyne can put out, go for the SVS PB1000. It's a 10" that will have better SQ, definitely more volume than the VX-11 (in case you need it), but will go down to 20hz where you get all those nice bass effects for movies. One of the guys over on the SVS subwoofer forum reviewed it and thought it has way more output for a 10" sub than it should (and he's tried a lot of subs). There's a thread devoted to the PB1000 and the SB1000. Check it out: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1439755/new-svs-sb1000-pb1000-subwoofers

And then after you get one . . . add a second PB1000 later on biggrin.gif
post #43594 of 51489
Ok I have my crossover on my yamaha avr set at 60hz for the veritas with sub wide open on crossover!!! But will need a new avr to run two subs correct ? Or should I run a y adapter on the back (avr ) sub port ??
post #43595 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

One reason budget subs rock everything is that they produce a lot of distortion in the low frequencies. When you step up to a better sounding sub, you definitely notice more refined bass effects.

That LFM-1 Plus is definitely a good sub. However, if you are happy with how much volume the Velodyne can put out, go for the SVS PB1000. It's a 10" that will have better SQ, definitely more volume than the VX-11 (in case you need it), but will go down to 20hz where you get all those nice bass effects for movies. One of the guys over on the SVS subwoofer forum reviewed it and thought it has way more output for a 10" sub than it should (and he's tried a lot of subs). There's a thread devoted to the PB1000 and the SB1000. Check it out: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1439755/new-svs-sb1000-pb1000-subwoofers

And then after you get one . . . add a second PB1000 later on biggrin.gif

Good call cel. I forgot about that one.
post #43596 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

Ok I have my crossover on my yamaha avr set at 60hz for the veritas with sub wide open on crossover!!! But will need a new avr to run two subs correct ? Or should I run a y adapter on the back (avr ) sub port ??

Of course, if you buy a good sub, you won't be running the VX-11 any more. So you wouldn't need to worry about it for a while smile.gif

And no. You wouldn't need to buy a new receiver. Most of the 7.2 receivers just have an internal splitter. Just by a y adapter.
post #43597 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

One reason budget subs rock everything is that they produce a lot of distortion in the low frequencies. When you step up to a better sounding sub, you definitely notice more refined bass effects.

That LFM-1 Plus is definitely a good sub. However, if you are happy with how much volume the Velodyne can put out, go for the SVS PB1000. It's a 10" that will have better SQ, definitely more volume than the VX-11 (in case you need it), but will go down to 20hz where you get all those nice bass effects for movies. One of the guys over on the SVS subwoofer forum reviewed it and thought it has way more output for a 10" sub than it should (and he's tried a lot of subs). There's a thread devoted to the PB1000 and the SB1000. Check it out: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1439755/new-svs-sb1000-pb1000-subwoofers

And then after you get one . . . add a second PB1000 later on biggrin.gif

Thank u so much !! I understand now sorry!! I don't mind going lm1 plus or the ex !!! I just want it to be done right !! So do I need to update the avr so it has two sub port jacks on back ?
post #43598 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Of course, if you buy a good sub, you won't be running the VX-11 any more. So you wouldn't need to worry about it for a while smile.gif

And no. You wouldn't need to buy a new receiver. Most of the 7.2 receivers just have an internal splitter. Just by a y adapter.

I have plenty of y adapters smile.gif and sub cables!

So cool ill go either outlaw or the pb1000!!
post #43599 of 51489
I believe a y cable is all you need.


Oops. I type to slow. cool.gif
post #43600 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Of course, if you buy a good sub, you won't be running the VX-11 any more. So you wouldn't need to worry about it for a while smile.gif

And no. You wouldn't need to buy a new receiver. Most of the 7.2 receivers just have an internal splitter. Just by a y adapter.

I'm not feeling the black wood grain shell on the pb 1000
post #43601 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by batt50 View Post

I believe a y cable is all you need.


Oops. I type to slow. cool.gif

Lol u guys have helped me a ton!!

I guess the 473 is ok for now !! Will upgrade that later to either marantz or Cambridge 551r
post #43602 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

I have plenty of y adapters smile.gif and sub cables!

So cool ill go either outlaw or the pb1000!!

If you can go for the Plus (and persuade the wife, because they are a little big--21.50" x 15.0" x 22.0"), get that because it is a step up from the PB1000. I have the LFM-1 EX, which is the big brother of the Plus (EX has the same driver, same amp, bigger enclosure). They do sound awesome!

One other thing in the Plus's favor. It's a downfiring sub. So no ports in the front to put food inside (lol). No exposed drivers to poke with a toy. Very child friendly.
post #43603 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

If you can go for the Plus (and persuade the wife, because they are a little big--21.50" x 15.0" x 22.0"), get that because it is a step up from the PB1000. I have the LFM-1 EX, which is the big brother of the Plus (EX has the same driver, same amp, bigger enclosure). They do sound awesome!

One other thing in the Plus's favor. It's a downfiring sub. So no ports in the front to put food inside (lol). No exposed drivers to poke with a toy. Very child friendly.

Good cuz I have 2 little ones under 2 1/2 smile.gif
post #43604 of 51489


This is the new veritas on my homemade stands ( $28.00 ) before I took down the old klipsch gallery g-12's smile.gif
post #43605 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

Good cuz I have 2 little ones under 2 1/2 smile.gif

I remembered you had one because of the picture in your other thread. smile.gif
post #43606 of 51489
Lol oh yeh duh smile.gif
post #43607 of 51489
So should I buy 2 outlaw plus or 1 for now ? I guess I should wait for at least a small sale huh?
post #43608 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think that the 797 will be plenty powerful. The fact that it doesn't have modern features like HDMI and room correction says nothing about its amp quality; in fact, in an older unit like that you would expect the amp quality to be much better than a typical mid-level model nowadays. I believe that model was even THX certified, and googling the specs it looks like it was rated at 100W/ch and weighs 35lbs. I think it will have plenty of grunt to drive the 2.2's, especially in an office where presumably you won't be cranking it to insane volume levels.
No, there is no way to have a separate calibration for "B" speakers. You can configure the "B" speakers as dedicated 2ch specialists (as you know) but they will not be included as part of the main Audyssey calibration unless you actually want them active as your primary front speakers in multich modes as well. So in a way this supports the plan to move them into the office unless you want to do your primary "critical" 2ch listening in the main room.

Thanks, batpig. My main reason for hoping I could include the 2.2i's in the calibration is that they're extension doesn't quite match what [understandably] a tower, or bookshelf + sub can do.
I've put them on 2.1ch stereo with the s12.3, but it doesn't sound nearly as clean or integrated as I think it would with the calibration. If I compare, the bass sounds much tighter and refined in "pure direct" 2.0ch listening than with the s12.3...though the bass doesn't extend as far down as what the sub could do.

Any ideas, aside from pretty much making them my mains & leaving my poor APS 5+2's without a proper home?
You're definitely right, in that there is the Onkyo 797 in the other room, but that room doesn't have a sub at all, and I'm guessing they still wouldn't seem to reach down as deep as with a sub.

LASTLY...! (haha) -- here's some pics of my main room setup right now (cheap photos from phone...will have to upload some better ones sometime!).
My question here is the surround speakers. You can see that with my room dimensions / furniture layout, I've had to put the surround channels quite a bit behind the main listening spot (almost like rear surrounds might be?) -- I'm considering maybe trying to find some Veritas 2.0Ri since they're design & wall mounting might work well ... would these be a nice fit with my other speakers (right now it's the APS 5+2's for L/R, AC-300 center, and C-6 for surrounds, s12.3 for sub)?
I just wanted to get opinions. With my limited experience with bipoles (RVSS surrounds), I have somewhat liked direct radiating more for The RVSS's had great dispersion, but threw me off I could locate them 'at all'.
They by no means sound bad in the main room, but was just curious...since I know they're not necessarily positioned 'correctly' for surround speakers; I do notice a significant difference in the 'presence' of the surround channels when I jump from my main room to my office setup that has the surrounds in proper side-position.

I honestly don't know what a good price for the 2.0Ri's would be, since they're not discussed often on here. The gentleman I bought my 2.2i's from is also selling a 2.0ci , two sets of 2.0Ri's, and 2.4i mains...so I could maybe inquire if he'd be willing to sell the 2.0Ri's for a price you all find to be reasonable; he currently only has a price listed for the 2.4i's.
If I do end up getting the 2.0Ri's for surrounds, would the positioning of the C-6's be good for rear surrounds?

Thank you!

Front view

Looking back...seat you see if main listening spot.

View from behind / left of listening spot. This is entry-way into the sofa area. Not enough room for a C-6, and too close at that [for direct radiating].

View from entering room from the back-left, to get a sense of distance that the C-6's are back (only surround-right visible in pic).

Edited by johnb4467 - 1/22/13 at 9:48pm
post #43609 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by metropole View Post

I have read threads regarding the center (2.0ci) not being as good or not matching. I disagree. I have tested many centers in a previous setup. I like the sounds of the center, produces very nice voices. Also, the speaker blends in fine.
The 2.0Ri's are good as well. Especially for the money that you find them sometimes these days.

BTW. I am using currently a Yamaha to drive the setup. I liked the sound of the Yamaha. I was going to get a new one. However, the newer ones are bigger in size (depth). This would cause an issue for me with the space constraints in my cabinet.

Does your Yamaha have pre-outs? If you like your Yamaha & don't feel a huge need for some of the new goodies like XT32, etc...you could maybe just add-in an amp (like I think you mentioned?) if you have the pre-outs.
post #43610 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by batt50 View Post

Good call cel. I forgot about that one.

That's the one i'm getting when i get the funds. Batpig recommended that one.
post #43611 of 51489
I am thinking of getting that one too, other higher end sub are too heavy. will be a problem when move
post #43612 of 51489
Thanks
post #43613 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

I dont think that the rc-70 truly go down to 31hz .I will left those 31hz to a subwoofer.
I am now interested to check with my meter. Have you played some low tones? Quite impressive.
post #43614 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

While those Marantz's are very nice I would STRONGLY recommend (as batt50 noted) that you get a receiver with MultEQ XT32. Both those Marantz models "only" have MultEQ XT. Those speakers are so nice that they deserve the best.

Those Marantz are also just rebadged Denons, the 7xxx Marantz is the same as the Denon 33xx on the inside. I have heard the Marantz 7005 and the Denon 4311 and Onkyo 3008 back-to-back with the same system, and the XT32 definitely makes a difference. If you can find a Denon 4311 floating around on closeout pricing I would do it, check at local Best Buys and/or call around to authorized internet dealers.

The Denon 4311 seems like a perfect choice. I might running into an issue with my second constraint: depth space in my cabinet. I am already pushing it with my RX-V2400 receiver. The Denon seems a bit deeper.
post #43615 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

I am now interested to check with my meter. Have you played some low tones? Quite impressive.

I think the specs for the RC-70s were 34 Hz, not 31. However the exact conditions were never specified, and it's not even clear if that was supposed to be a -3 dB point. I think the only credible measurement of the RC-70's frequency response is found at Home Theater (see the purple trace).

Those are close-mic, quasi-anechoic measurements. They show a peak for the RC-70s at 100 Hz and it goes down rather fast from there. The +/- 3dB band would be breached at 68 Hz according to those measurements, i.e. 68 Hz is already down 6 dB from the 100 Hz peak. Below that, response falls even faster.

The RC-70s have pretty good upper bass (lots of output at 100 Hz) but I don't think I'd use a crossover below 80 Hz with those. I'm lucky enough to use dual subs that sound best on the front stage (just inside the mains), so that I can use a higher crossover frequency without having localizable bass (or anyway it gets localized at the center so it's not much of a problem). I'm currently using 100 Hz as a crossover but wonder if I should set it even higher, considering I have ample subwoofage.
post #43616 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by d12d View Post

I've been impressed with the RC70's as far as soundstage and imaging. Have you tried running Audyssey/YPAO or whatever your receiver has?

I have messed with switching between 7.2 and 2.2 and I had to get up and check to see if the center speaker was on or not. What else do you have experience with that you are disappointed in the speakers?

I'm running them with an Onkyo 506 (I think, lol) in Direct mode. It's just a 2.0 system as I'm much more a music guy than a movies guy.

Recently I listened to a pair of Tannoy Gold Monitor 15's from the 60s. Driven with old Mac tube amps. Wow, soundstage was unreal. I know it's not a fair comparison, but I was hoping that the Energy's would be maybe 80% of the Tannoy's.
post #43617 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper186 View Post

I do
I don't have the RC-70's, or any Energy speaker except for my sub lol. I will say with my towers, towing them in directly towards my seating position made a HUGE difference.

They're currently placed about 6 feet apart, toed in about 10 degrees and 1 foot away from the walls. I very tempted to get a centre just to improve my centre imaging.
post #43618 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I think the specs for the RC-70s were 34 Hz, not 31. However the exact conditions were never specified, and it's not even clear if that was supposed to be a -3 dB point. I think the only credible measurement of the RC-70's frequency response is found at Home Theater (see the purple trace).

The 31hz was the +/- 3 db rating...... http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542145304

Obviously not quite accurate according to your link.
post #43619 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgallerie View Post

The 31hz was the +/- 3 db rating...... http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542145304

Obviously not quite accurate according to your link.

They don't state how the measurement was done and they say "26 Hz usable bass response" which is a bit preposterous to say the least. I love the RC-70s and the bass is good, but for the 20-40 Hz octave, you better forget it and use any good ID sub out there.

That being said, I really don't know if the HomeTheater measurements can be trusted either as the 68 Hz -3 dB point is surprisingly high and pretty far from the quoted 31 Hz. The 34 Hz figure I remember from Energy's web page before they removed the specs. I remember because I got the ESW-C8 sub as a bonus with the RC-70s and could not refrain from giggling seeing the C8 was rated at 36 Hz.
post #43620 of 51489
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

They don't state how the measurement was done and they say "26 Hz usable bass response" which is a bit preposterous to say the least. I love the RC-70s and the bass is good, but for the 20-40 Hz octave, you better forget it and use any good ID sub out there.

That being said, I really don't know if the HomeTheater measurements can be trusted either as the 68 Hz -3 dB point is surprisingly high and pretty far from the quoted 31 Hz. The 34 Hz figure I remember from Energy's web page before they removed the specs. I remember because I got the ESW-C8 sub as a bonus with the RC-70s and could not refrain from giggling seeing the C8 was rated at 36 Hz.

interesting.....the specs i remember are 40hz for the 30's, 33hz for the 50's, and 31hz for the 70's.

regardless.......for HT, a good sub is always recommended.
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