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Energy Owners Thread - Page 1458

post #43711 of 51472
So I guess I'm running heights instead of wides. And according to the Audessey website wides should be first. Adding the Polks to my RC setup added to my soundstage, but I'm a bit confused as to receiver processing. I know Yamaha adds the extra speakers and processes that in the receiver, but YPAO sucks balls. I would like to get an Audessey Multi XT32 enabled unit ASAP, but currently with the crappy room correction I have, is this optimal placement?

That being said, a quick question. Is Audessey something that could be run independent of a receiver? Do I need to spend the extra $1000 on an XT32 enabled reciecver or could I try and contact someone who could calibrate my setup independently? My room is so large and oddly shaped (a living room open to a kitchen, with odd shaped walls), that if independent calibration without AVR upgrade might be worth it?
post #43712 of 51472
Pardon my inexperience with AVRs and processing, I've spent most of my first year into HT researching speakers and subwoofers, which apparently might have been misplaced to begin with?
post #43713 of 51472
On my 3.1 set up of all energy veritas v5.2's should I use the port plugs ???
post #43714 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

On my 3.1 set up of all energy veritas v5.2's should I use the port plugs ???

The main purpose of the plugs is in case you have to put the speakers very close to the wall (or inside an entertainment center) where the ports can't breathe. If your speakers are more than 6" away, you shouldn't need to do that.
post #43715 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The main purpose of the plugs is in case you have to put the speakers very close to the wall (or inside an entertainment center) where the ports can't breathe. If your speakers are more than 6" away, you shouldn't need to do that.
10-4 thanks buddy !!
post #43716 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by benca1 View Post

On my 3.1 set up of all energy veritas v5.2's should I use the port plugs ???

All depends on your specific situation and preference. If your only positioning choice for the speakers is very close to a wall, you'll likely want to use the plugs to keep the sound from being "muddied." With the port open it takes far less power to yield the same SPL....but the frequency response drops like a rock from the tuning point, down. Typically you'll see a roll off of 24db/octave below the "knee" for a bass reflex speaker.

With the plug in, the speaker will roll off much more gradually which can make integrating it into a system a little less difficult. But it requires more power to reach the same spl which can be taxing if you're using an AVR (which sometimes have overly generous power ratings with all channels driven).

If you have an AVR equipped with good room equalization software, in most cases I'd recommend leaving the ports open and running the maximum number of locations possible with the room EQ. Then cross the speakers over @ 80hz or higher to better integrate speakers with subs since they're going to roll off very sharply (my guess around 60hz for the v5.2).
post #43717 of 51472
My father has finally seen the light! He wants to buy some Energy speakers off of craigslist, I believe they are in the C-series (older) and I want to know if anyone has opinions on them. They look very much like the RC series (which I have and my dad loves), but do they sound similar?

Here is the ad: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/3547295604.html
post #43718 of 51472
The C-Series are very "similar" to the RC's in sound and construction. Many of us here were very happy with ours...until we heard the RC's. The RC's sound clearer but for that price I personally don't think he could do better as far as the quality and sound. A lot of thought and technology went into them and I think they got it right as far as price/performance. I've still got mine because I know I could never get enough out of them to upgrade them without spending a whole lot more.

BTW: Make sure he has enough room for the center...it ain't small!
post #43719 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Avarice_ View Post

PLiiz with wides only? I thought the dolby processing was only for heights and that DSX & Neo X were the only ones that incorporated wides.

Sorry meant with heights and no wides. At first I was amazed of the wides addition to the soundstage but after watching Mission to Mars, there was a scene where the wides just completely sounded whack(that 360 scene where the guy is talking). With heights, I enjoyed it better but some films the dialogue seemed to have an "echo" effect ie: tangled.
post #43720 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fears4Ears View Post

The C-Series are very "similar" to the RC's in sound and construction. Many of us here were very happy with ours...until we heard the RC's. The RC's sound clearer but for that price I personally don't think he could do better as far as the quality and sound. A lot of thought and technology went into them and I think they got it right as far as price/performance. I've still got mine because I know I could never get enough out of them to upgrade them without spending a whole lot more.

BTW: Make sure he has enough room for the center...it ain't small!

Thanks for the quick response! I will definitely tell him about the center speaker. I am going with him tomorrow to look at them. Since the RCs are scarce, and my father wants to get a receiver with a lot of features, he just needs something closer in sound than the new C-series or e:XL series...
post #43721 of 51472
The speakers he has listed are the C-100's and the C-C100 center.
post #43722 of 51472
Quote:
The speakers he has listed are the C-100's and the C-C100 center

I used to have those exact speakers. The tweeter is a little muffled compared to the RC speakers but still good sounding. If you have a receiver with room eq I'm sure it'll open things up. For $120 for 3 speakers he can't go wrong.
post #43723 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizimes View Post

Pardon my inexperience with AVRs and processing, I've spent most of my first year into HT researching speakers and subwoofers, which apparently might have been misplaced to begin with?

Not at all!! The speakers are the things which actually make the sound so they are the most important part of the system! Receivers and features come and go, but good speakers will last through many receivers.

Quote:
Question being that I mounted the Polks outside of my FR/FL by about a foot, and about six feet off the ground. I'm running a Yamaha RXV-671 and running the Polks off of Zone 2. Is my placement optimal?

Yamaha receivers do not use any of the new height / wide processing technologies, they have their own proprietary systems. Yamaha has long been doing their own things with their DSP modes and "enhanced" sound fields; they actually were using height speakers (called "presence" speakers in Yamaha-speak) long before any other receivers.

So, anyway, bottom line is if you want to use height speakers with your current receiver you are using "presence speakers". They are used to generate ambiance and make the room feel more "spacious" when using Yamaha's various enhanced surround modes. This article is the best explanation I've found: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=41243

I'm a bit confused though by you saying you are running them off of Zone 2? Zone 2 is intended for separate speakers in another room. Are you sure you have them hooked up correctly? You may want to consult in a Yamaha thread.

Quote:
That being said, a quick question. Is Audessey something that could be run independent of a receiver? Do I need to spend the extra $1000 on an XT32 enabled reciecver or could I try and contact someone who could calibrate my setup independently?

There is an external Audyssey product, intended to allow someone with an older non-digital setup to access their room correction, but paying for that and a custom installer is going to cost more than switching to a new receiver. Wouldn't make any sense, it would be much more cost effective to sell the Yammy and switch to a Denon/Marantz/Onkyo. You don't have to go whole hog all the way to XT32 (although it is the best), there are many good options with XT which will still be excellent.
post #43724 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Avarice_ View Post

PLiiz with wides only? I thought the dolby processing was only for heights and that DSX & Neo X were the only ones that incorporated wides.

Sorry meant with heights and no wides. At first I was amazed of the wides addition to the soundstage but after watching Mission to Mars, there was a scene where the wides just completely sounded whack(that 360 scene where the guy is talking). With heights, I enjoyed it better but some films the dialogue seemed to have an "echo" effect ie: tangled.


The thing with DSX is that it extracts the information for wides and heights from the FR/FL main channels. It's a little different than other surround expansion modes (PLIIz, Neo:X, etc) in that it is not just extracting "ambiance" to create more spacious sound, it is specifically generating "fake" reflections from locations that have been shown to be pleasing. The basic gist is that the reason big ass movie theaters and huge concert halls sound good is because you get these reflections that make the room sound so spacious and huge, and Audyssey's research identified the ideal angles for these reflections (+/- 60 degrees laterally and +/-45 degrees vertically).

If you had a huge theater, you wouldn't need the speakers because the reflections would exist naturally, but by phyiscally placing speakers at those points and then extracting the "fake" reflections from the main content in FR/FL channels, it makes the room sound much larger than it actually is, which gives you that "huge room" feeling like you are in a movie theater when watching a good blu-ray, or in a giant concert hall listening to music.

So at its core it is simply copying the FR/FL content, delaying it by a few milliseconds, with some other special sauce processing, and then sending it to the wide and height channels to make the room feel huge and immersive. Unfortunately, this effect breaks down (as you have found) when certain content, especially dialogue, leaks into the FR/FL channels instead of being anchored to the center. Then, those reflections sound weird and echoey, because our brain is so sensitive to speech.

So it's really content dependent. When it works, it sounds huge and awesome, but when you hit some content that doesn't play nice with it, it sounds weird. PLIIz is much less aggressive in its approach, it just extracts ambient (out of phase) content from the surround channels, so you don't get that "in your face" effect of DSX but it's not as distracting because it's not so aggressive.
post #43725 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic View Post

My father has finally seen the light! He wants to buy some Energy speakers off of craigslist, I believe they are in the C-series (older) and I want to know if anyone has opinions on them. They look very much like the RC series (which I have and my dad loves), but do they sound similar?

Here is the ad: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/3547295604.html

What everyone else has already said is spot on... those C-series were the entry level when the RC's were introduced (basically replacing your XL's) and they essentially sound like less refined versions of the RC's. Similar tonal quality but a little less detail and transparency.

How much of an "audiophile" is your dad and how much does he want to spend? In terms of sheer value, $120 for those three speakers is a ridiculous price and impossible to beat.

But eyeballing Phoenix craigslist, there are some other options if he can spend a little more.... you know him best and what he wants, so just throwing these out there:

These C-1 bookshelfs are basically the predecessor to the RC-10's, they will be much more refined than the C-100's: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/3560925374.html

I wouldn't pay $200 though but if you can get it down to $150 or less then you are talking. That will give RC quality sound, the main difference between these Connoisseurs and the RC's is that the RC's went higher end with the build quality (real wood veneer) and the newer tweeter is a bit smoother.

If he wants some awesome, big-ass tower speakers these are very nice: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/3562119599.html

About 15-20 years old now but the e-series is excellent and those 5.1e's were the flagship model. I'd again try to bargain down closer to $200.
post #43726 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by durhambird View Post

Thanks, I changed my crossover to 60 for the RC 70's and 80 for the LCR and the RC 10'. It's where I had it before, was trying to make "full use" of the RC's. Maybe it is a better idea to take some of the load off my modest amp to put it on the sub. Judging from some other posts, I might even raise it slightly more but I'm afraid of localization over 80Hz with only one sub.

I use my 70's in a wide open space, full range, with a sub. Bass coming from 3 locations is better than one, IMO.
post #43727 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

It is not critical that all the fronts are the same brand. Only that they have the same sound characteristics.

So how do you tell - other than by brand - that the sound characteristics would match? Do I just look at frequency response or is it trial and error in listening? I ask because a DefTech Mythos Seven appears more powerful than the V-Mini-C and would fit where I need it but that would be useless if it didn't match the CB-20s.

Thanks to everyone else for the replies.
post #43728 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

What everyone else has already said is spot on... those C-series were the entry level when the RC's were introduced (basically replacing your XL's) and they essentially sound like less refined versions of the RC's. Similar tonal quality but a little less detail and transparency.

How much of an "audiophile" is your dad and how much does he want to spend? In terms of sheer value, $120 for those three speakers is a ridiculous price and impossible to beat.

But eyeballing Phoenix craigslist, there are some other options if he can spend a little more.... you know him best and what he wants, so just throwing these out there:

These C-1 bookshelfs are basically the predecessor to the RC-10's, they will be much more refined than the C-100's: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/3560925374.html

I wouldn't pay $200 though but if you can get it down to $150 or less then you are talking. That will give RC quality sound, the main difference between these Connoisseurs and the RC's is that the RC's went higher end with the build quality (real wood veneer) and the newer tweeter is a bit smoother.

If he wants some awesome, big-ass tower speakers these are very nice: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/3562119599.html

About 15-20 years old now but the e-series is excellent and those 5.1e's were the flagship model. I'd again try to bargain down closer to $200.

My dad likes good sound, but he was content with his sucky TV speakers until recently when they converted their floor to a stained stone instead of thin carpet. Now the sound doesn't carry in the right way, and so I convinced him that room correction and REAL speakers would help his situation. Plus his TV basically has the worst ratings of any TV I have seen/heard for audio. When I'm over there the volume can be quiet one second and super loud the next.

I don't think I could convince him to go closer to $200, since he wants to get a receiver that has internet connections, can be controlled by his iPhone, and has enough HDMI inputs. I figure that could cost him a few hundred (any recommendations on receivers would be awesome if anyone has one with those features).
post #43729 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Avarice_ View Post

All depends on your specific situation and preference. If your only positioning choice for the speakers is very close to a wall, you'll likely want to use the plugs to keep the sound from being "muddied." With the port open it takes far less power to yield the same SPL....but the frequency response drops like a rock from the tuning point, down. Typically you'll see a roll off of 24db/octave below the "knee" for a bass reflex speaker.

With the plug in, the speaker will roll off much more gradually which can make integrating it into a system a little less difficult. But it requires more power to reach the same spl which can be taxing if you're using an AVR (which sometimes have overly generous power ratings with all channels driven).

If you have an AVR equipped with good room equalization software, in most cases I'd recommend leaving the ports open and running the maximum number of locations possible with the room EQ. Then cross the speakers over @ 80hz or higher to better integrate speakers with subs since they're going to roll off very sharply (my guess around 60hz for the v5.2).

Very helpful and well thought response. In my case, the FL/FR speakers are less than a foot close to the side and back walls and the CC speaker is less than a foot too to the back wall so i have the plugs in. I've tried with plugs in and off, and yes with the plugs off it sounds a lot muddier, the bass sounds too powerful. I have them al crossed at 80hz, just about right.
post #43730 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic View Post

My dad likes good sound, but he was content with his sucky TV speakers until recently when they converted their floor to a stained stone instead of thin carpet. Now the sound doesn't carry in the right way, and so I convinced him that room correction and REAL speakers would help his situation. Plus his TV basically has the worst ratings of any TV I have seen/heard for audio. When I'm over there the volume can be quiet one second and super loud the next.

I don't think I could convince him to go closer to $200, since he wants to get a receiver that has internet connections, can be controlled by his iPhone, and has enough HDMI inputs. I figure that could cost him a few hundred (any recommendations on receivers would be awesome if anyone has one with those features).

Fry's has the HK AVR 1700 on sale for $199 starting today. Your dad should pick that up. It has an ethernet port, Airplay, iPhone remote controllable and 6 HDMI inputs.

http://www.frys.com/ads/audio-video-television-cameras-portable-car-electronics

http://www.frys.com/product/7372554
post #43731 of 51472
post #43732 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic View Post

My dad likes good sound, but he was content with his sucky TV speakers until recently when they converted their floor to a stained stone instead of thin carpet. Now the sound doesn't carry in the right way, and so I convinced him that room correction and REAL speakers would help his situation. Plus his TV basically has the worst ratings of any TV I have seen/heard for audio. When I'm over there the volume can be quiet one second and super loud the next.

I don't think I could convince him to go closer to $200, since he wants to get a receiver that has internet connections, can be controlled by his iPhone, and has enough HDMI inputs. I figure that could cost him a few hundred (any recommendations on receivers would be awesome if anyone has one with those features).

The option that afrogt suggested is a good one. If you want to get him all those features and also offer Dynamic Volume (since you specific noted volume spikes) you can get a Denon 1613 refurb for $259: http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1613/DENON-AVR-1613-5.1ch-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-ready/1.html

Does he have an area rug in his room after switching the flooring? Room correction will help somewhat but improving the baseline acoustics is the best bet. Adding more soft stuff (a nice area rug, curtains, etc) will help a lot.

If clarity is an issue then the Connoisseur C-1's I linked to may be a better bet (assuming you can get it down to a more reasonable price).

EDIT: funny thing I found the exact same speaker on eBay also in Scottsdale! link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Energy-Connoisseur-Series-C-1-Black-Bookshelf-Speakers-NICE-/181053228950

Wonder if it's the same dude? At the minimum you could use the eBay ad as leverage on the craigslist guy to get his price down. Since I assume you could just pick those up the eBay price is nice at $110 (without shipping).

That will get him started with a nice stereo pair, and they will have a lot more clarity / detail than the C-100's.
post #43733 of 51472

Such a good price since the minis are like $130 each by themselves! Too bad they don't have a threaded mounting insert for ceiling mounts! Grrrrr
Edited by DustinLH00 - 1/25/13 at 11:05am
post #43734 of 51472
The best speakers that I had seen on the internet for the most critical placements are the mirage omnipole speakers , you can practicly place this speakers on the most difficult place and you will still get the sound because their sound is 360o.
post #43735 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Fry's has the HK AVR 1700 on sale for $199 starting today. Your dad should pick that up. It has an ethernet port, Airplay, iPhone remote controllable and 6 HDMI inputs.

http://www.frys.com/ads/audio-video-television-cameras-portable-car-electronics

http://www.frys.com/product/7372554

That is an excellent receiver, but I just got off phone with my dad and he said he was hoping to get a multi-zone receiver.

So now the features must include multi-zone, network, hdmi, iPhone controllable and Airplay. WHEW. Sorry guys. It may be he gives up on finding multi-zone because so far receivers with that many features are around $750. So, afrogt, I'll show him this ad, since we have a Fry's not too far from us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The option that afrogt suggested is a good one. If you want to get him all those features and also offer Dynamic Volume (since you specific noted volume spikes) you can get a Denon 1613 refurb for $259: http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1613/DENON-AVR-1613-5.1ch-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-ready/1.html

Does he have an area rug in his room after switching the flooring? Room correction will help somewhat but improving the baseline acoustics is the best bet. Adding more soft stuff (a nice area rug, curtains, etc) will help a lot.

If clarity is an issue then the Connoisseur C-1's I linked to may be a better bet (assuming you can get it down to a more reasonable price).

EDIT: funny thing I found the exact same speaker on eBay also in Scottsdale! link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Energy-Connoisseur-Series-C-1-Black-Bookshelf-Speakers-NICE-/181053228950

Wonder if it's the same dude? At the minimum you could use the eBay ad as leverage on the craigslist guy to get his price down. Since I assume you could just pick those up the eBay price is nice at $110 (without shipping).

That will get him started with a nice stereo pair, and they will have a lot more clarity / detail than the C-100's.

I showed my dad the ad for the C-1 and he immediately said he wouldn't do silver :P One of the reasons he liked the C-100s was because they looked just like the RC-10s once the grills were on. I let him borrow my RC-10s about a year ago and he liked how they looked with his TV stand.

But I might be looking more into that C-1 pair on craigslist. That is a good find! I already have way too many speakers, but what harm would it do to have another pair? smile.gif

They are planning on getting a rug, which would help. It isn't so much the echo or sound bouncing off floor as it is the fact that their TV faces back into a large living room that opens past that into a kitchen, so if the sound went straight it would hit a wall almost 35 feet away (and counters and tables, etc.). They aren't too picky, but I'll be able to fix some of that with room correction or with speaker placement. Other than that though, they're on their own.
post #43736 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic View Post

I showed my dad the ad for the C-1 and he immediately said he wouldn't do silver :P One of the reasons he liked the C-100s was because they looked just like the RC-10s once the grills were on. I let him borrow my RC-10s about a year ago and he liked how they looked with his TV stand.

Did you show him the Veritas V5.2Cs at wwstereo for $179 each? I think they still have the rosenut left. That'll remind him, too, of how much Energy speakers normally cost when new smile.gif
post #43737 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Did you show him the Veritas V5.2Cs at wwstereo for $179 each? I think they still have the rosenut left. That'll remind him, too, of how much Energy speakers normally cost when new smile.gif

I'd LOVE it if he got those! But I'm not sure how I'd sell him the idea of spending more on one of those than he'd be spending on these 3 :P
post #43738 of 51472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic View Post

That is an excellent receiver, but I just got off phone with my dad and he said he was hoping to get a multi-zone receiver.

So now the features must include multi-zone, network, hdmi, iPhone controllable and Airplay. WHEW. Sorry guys. It may be he gives up on finding multi-zone because so far receivers with that many features are around $750. So, afrogt, I'll show him this ad, since we have a Fry's not too far from us.

You can get all those features in the $449msrp Denon 1713, although it does require another amp for multizone (only 5 channels built in). Street price if you call around is probably under $400. I bet there are also Pioneer or Yamaha models which have all of the above for pretty cheap, well under $750 at least.

You can get a Denon 2113 refurb for $449 shipped from A4less: http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR2113CI/DENON-AVR-2113CI-7.1ch-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-Ready/1.html

That has everything on his list, including the option of Zone 2 powered internally (5.1+2) or externally via the pre-outs.

Can you describe more about his multizone needs? Is it just about powering a second pair of speakers elsewhere for music distribution (e.g. on the patio or in the bedroom or something) or does he want to feed a whole house audio system? Or something else?

It's also worth noting that the C-1's silver bezel is covered with the grill on.... $110 for that eBay pair if you can pick it up in Scottsdale is a sweet deal, they will give you 95% of the RC-10's sound quality.
post #43739 of 51472
Does anyone have experience with : http://www.accessories4less.com ?
It seems they shorten the warranty to 1 year?
post #43740 of 51472
The warranty is shorter because they are refurbs, not new. A 1 year warranty on a refurb is actually pretty good, and they are an authorized dealer for their refurb products.

I've never heard anything bad about them, although I haven't ordered from them personally.
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