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Energy Owners Thread - Page 1464

post #43891 of 47730
2/4/13 at 5:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post

I have a 5.1 rc micro setup in the den, I want to add heights for 7.1, I've been looking for two individual RC micros but have yet to find them. Would the V minis work. How will they blend and should I use them as heights, Left front and right front or as surrounds?

There's plenty of people on Ebay selling individual RC-Micro's or two packs I was shocked at how many there were when I last checked a few weeks ago. That's what I did for a 7.1 RC Micro bedroom setup. I wouldn't use V-Mini's with the micros they are just too different it'll stick out.
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post #43892 of 47730
2/4/13 at 5:25am
Just picked up a pair of gently used Veritas V-minis for under $120 Canadian, which I think is a pretty good deal??

Planning to use them in a bedroom setup I've been thinking about for a while (TV and components are in a cabinet). If I could just locate an equally inexpensive matching center, I'd be set.
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post #43893 of 47730
2/4/13 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnb4467 View Post

Hmm. Well it definitely seems like you're considering everything possible and going about troubleshooting in a logical way.
The cramped cabinet space definitely, I'm sure, makes life a lot harder on you...nothing less fun that trying to squeeze behind to troubleshoot issues.
Your valid question regarding the out-of-phase wiring of the drivers...I unfortunately don't have a good answer for; the internal workings of the speakers are [aside from a tweeter swap-out] is unknown to me. I'm surprised you can even get the 'sock' down that low...when I bought the speakers, I had to really try and work it down just enough to check that both subs were firing, and then put it back in place. I'm finding the top of the 'sock' stretching downward every time I've needed to pull it down...to the point of worry in being able to get the top cap in place anymore, or I'd check on the drivers for you. The nice part about the speakers is that drivers, at least from what I've seen, are really easy to put in / take out.

Maybe the biggest oddities are in the comments of your edit...the switch, and the speaker cables. Those results obviously don't really match what we'd expect to happen...and that's definitely complicating trying to narrow down what the issue might be.
I have had my receiver (denon 4311) shut down a few times in the past. I think it was a single stray copper strand touching the other bannana plug that put over enough of a signal to trigger a shutoff at high volume. At least, I think that was the issue.
Do you think that swapping out the speaker cables might actually be a valid troubleshooting step (albeit, an inconvenient one, considering the cabinet)?

EDIT: I'm assuming they have the bridges still in-place, even when using the pre-outs, since the switch on the speaker is flipped. I'm really confused by you getting sound with the speaker cables plugged into the lower connections -- and without the bridge in place. Are you sure sound is coming from the tweeters, or just the midrange drivers?

I had erroneously assumed the bridge was between the tweeters/mids and the woofers, rather than between the woofers/mids and tweeters. I reinstalled the the bridges shortly after posting.

I'm beginning to think the blown drivers and wiring have nothing to do with the receiver shutting down. I need to give the speaker connections on the back of the receiver a good inspection. I suspect, as you suggested, that a stray wire somewhere is contacting something it shouldn't.

Yesterday I ran some additional tests and found it only happened when powering all 6 speakers in surround mode. This is why I think it's something other than the fronts that's causing the shutdown. I've also contacted Pioneer about this, since the receiver is still under warranty.

And about the sock, fortunately I wandered over to his house one day when he happened to be replacing the woofers or I'd have had no idea how to access them. We discovered recently that one woofer in the right speaker was blown again, so we flipped the switch to the down position to turn it off. More recently I noticed the left channel woofers weren't operating at all, which is when I started thinking they were involved in the shut down issue. I pulled one and peeked inside to see that only one woofer was connected and the wires for the other were free inside to contact something they shouldn't. I thought for sure at that moment that I'd be solving two issues at once by reconnecting these wires, but my optimism was short lived. Anyway, my friend was never able to get the sock up all the way but I managed to get it up completely so the cap covered the four holes. It's definitely a challenge but do-able.

Thanks again for your help.
Edited by Terrya - 2/4/13 at 6:26am
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post #43894 of 47730
2/4/13 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrya View Post


Thanks again for your help.

More than happy to try and help out -- many-a-person has been invaluable to me on here...so pleased to try and return the favor to others. Hopefully something does, in fact, prove to be helpful!!!
BTW, always nice to talk to someone else out there who is working with some APS 5+2's...you're the only other person I've found on here that is around them. wink.gif
Keep us posted!
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post #43895 of 47730
2/4/13 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnb4467 View Post

More than happy to try and help out -- many-a-person has been invaluable to me on here...so pleased to try and return the favor to others. Hopefully something does, in fact, prove to be helpful!!!
BTW, always nice to talk to someone else out there who is working with some APS 5+2's...you're the only other person I've found on here that is around them. wink.gif
Keep us posted!

I've listened to these speakers quite a bit and they rock. Not only that, but jazz and classical sounds great on them too. And they look great. I wish I had a pair.

Here are a couple of diagrams showing my wiring confusion:

If the woofers were wired parallel I'd expect to see this:


If the woofers were wired in series I'd expect to see this:


But what I see is this:


Huh? confused.gif
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post #43896 of 47730
2/4/13 at 8:05pm
Hey guys, I asked this guy to come over and give me a quote and this is what I got, this seems high to me. Can someone chime in and let me know what they think.




THEATER ROOM

Installation:
1st Step Pre-wiring
Speaker wiring for 11 speakers. - 100% copper, CL2 rated (in-wall) 16 ga-18ga
HDMI cables (two each) 40 feet long.
Gold Plated Banana connectors wall-plate (2 each)
HDMI wall-plate (2 each)
All Cables Concealed.

2nd Step Equipment Installation
Receiver A/V
Amp.
Projection Screen (fixed)
Projector.
Total Labor- $950.00

Parts/Cables needed:
HDMI Cables 40 feet long (2 each) $59.95 each
Gold Plated Banana connectors wall-plate (2 each) $19.95 each
HDMI wall-plates (2 each) $29.95 each


Payment as job progresses -
1st Step, Pre-wiring = $600.00, ( first day )
2nd Step, Equipment installation, calibration, Amps, Speakers, Projector, Screen= $350.00 (second day)


LIVING-ROOM

Installation:
Speaker wiring for 5 speakers. - 100% copper, CL2 rated (in-wall) 18 ga
Sub-woofer
Receiver A/V/
TV installation on Articulated single arm Wall-mount (28 inch extension)
All Cables concealed.
Total- $350.00 (Regular price is $450.00)

Parts/Cables needed:
Articulated Wall-mount $100.00

Payment as job progresses -
1st Step, Pre-wiring = $200.00, ( first day )
2nd Step, Equipment installation, calibration, Amps, Speakers, TV $150.00 (second day)
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post #43897 of 47730
2/4/13 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post

Hey guys, I asked this guy to come over and give me a quote and this is what I got, this seems high to me. Can someone chime in and let me know what they think.




THEATER ROOM

Installation:
1st Step Pre-wiring
Speaker wiring for 11 speakers. - 100% copper, CL2 rated (in-wall) 16 ga-18ga
HDMI cables (two each) 40 feet long.
Gold Plated Banana connectors wall-plate (2 each)
HDMI wall-plate (2 each)
All Cables Concealed.

2nd Step Equipment Installation
Receiver A/V
Amp.
Projection Screen (fixed)
Projector.
Total Labor- $950.00

Parts/Cables needed:
HDMI Cables 40 feet long (2 each) $59.95 each
Gold Plated Banana connectors wall-plate (2 each) $19.95 each
HDMI wall-plates (2 each) $29.95 each


Payment as job progresses -
1st Step, Pre-wiring = $600.00, ( first day )
2nd Step, Equipment installation, calibration, Amps, Speakers, Projector, Screen= $350.00 (second day)


LIVING-ROOM

Installation:
Speaker wiring for 5 speakers. - 100% copper, CL2 rated (in-wall) 18 ga
Sub-woofer
Receiver A/V/
TV installation on Articulated single arm Wall-mount (28 inch extension)
All Cables concealed.
Total- $350.00 (Regular price is $450.00)

Parts/Cables needed:
Articulated Wall-mount $100.00

Payment as job progresses -
1st Step, Pre-wiring = $200.00, ( first day )
2nd Step, Equipment installation, calibration, Amps, Speakers, TV $150.00 (second day)

I guess the biggest question here is how is the access to the rooms? Are the rooms already finished with drywall? Is there basement access below the rooms? Is their attic access above the rooms? If there is no access above or below the room, then I can see the costs being higher. For example, in my living room, there is a 2nd story above it and I am on a slab, so no basement. To do my speaker wiring, he had to cut several holes on the wall where the receiver is and then several holes in the ceiling to route the wire between joists, which had to be drilled as well. Then all of these holes had to be patched and taped/mudded and then sanded. I handled the painting.

If he has to do all of that kind of work, I can see a higher cost. If he can get in an attic or basement and just drop wires, then it shouldn't be that high.
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post #43898 of 47730
2/4/13 at 8:32pm
I think you've posted in the wrong thread. Try that here:
http://www.avsforum.com/f/19/dedicated-theater-design-construction
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post #43899 of 47730
2/5/13 at 12:00am
A dumb question........... Future Shop has an Energy ESWC 1011 sub which has a frequency range down to 32 Hz. If my RC-70's already go that low, why would I buy it? The price is right at $300, but I'm not so sure about the performance. How much sound is actually audible below that?

If someone could straighten me out, I'd appreciate it.
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post #43900 of 47730
2/5/13 at 5:15am
The guys over in the subs forums would LOVE to straighten you out! I have 4 different Energy subs. They all will hit lower than that and they were all under $200. I just won an Energy S8.2 off eBay for $60 shipped and it is even rated at 27Hz. Shop around ONLINE.

P.S.: It's been slow around here and I'm sure someone will help you out, but the sub forums have stickies devoted to sub $300 subs. Some of those are available on Amazon.
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post #43901 of 47730
2/5/13 at 5:35am
The ONLY Energy-brand sub you should consider is the S10.3. Amazon has a used one for $292.99 shipped and eBay has a used one for $229.99 plus $30 shipping but they will take offers. A lot of us here got that sub when they were being blown out for $200 and love them. They reach down to 21Hz and are nice and tight. Again...forget about the new energy subs, and most you find locally under $300, until you're "schooled".
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post #43902 of 47730
2/5/13 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssthrd View Post

A dumb question........... Future Shop has an Energy ESWC 1011 sub which has a frequency range down to 32 Hz. If my RC-70's already go that low, why would I buy it? The price is right at $300, but I'm not so sure about the performance. How much sound is actually audible below that?

If someone could straighten me out, I'd appreciate it.
Unless you just insist on Energy for some reason the best sub going for around $300 is the Klipsch RW12-d. It is as good if not better than the S10.3 mentioned above and you can get it new at Newegg for $299 when it goes on sale frequently.
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post #43903 of 47730
2/5/13 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fears4Ears View Post

The ONLY Energy-brand sub you should consider is the S10.3. Amazon has a used one for $292.99 shipped and eBay has a used one for $229.99 plus $30 shipping but they will take offers. A lot of us here got that sub when they were being blown out for $200 and love them. They reach down to 21Hz and are nice and tight. Again...forget about the new energy subs, and most you find locally under $300, until you're "schooled".

From what I've heard, the Energy ESW-V10 is also quite good, but its now hard to find and typically expensive.
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post #43904 of 47730
2/5/13 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgallerie View Post

From what I've heard, the Energy ESW-V10 is also quite good, but its now hard to find and typically expensive.
Do you mean ESW-C10? I believe thats basically a twin to the S10.3.
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post #43905 of 47730
2/5/13 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Do you mean ESW-C10? I believe thats basically a twin to the S10.3.

Nope....V10. Its the sub thats meant to go with the newer veritas speakers.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3WNPxLiratY/p_732ESWV10/Energy-ESW-V10.html

And the ESW-C10 is definitely not a twin of the S10.3.
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post #43906 of 47730
2/5/13 at 6:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgallerie View Post

Nope....V10. Its the sub thats meant to go with the newer veritas speakers.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3WNPxLiratY/p_732ESWV10/Energy-ESW-V10.html

And the ESW-C10 is definitely not a twin of the S10.3.
You're right. Which one is the twin to the s10?
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post #43907 of 47730
2/5/13 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You're right. Which one is the twin to the s10?

I believe there is a mirage sub thats a twin to the S10.3.
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post #43908 of 47730
2/5/13 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgallerie View Post

I believe there is a mirage sub thats a twin to the S10.3.
That's right. Its been a while since I looked at them.
I just looked it up. Its the Mirage Omni S10.
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post #43909 of 47730
2/5/13 at 8:21am
This will help. See batpig's post detailing Energy and Mirage sub matchups:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1420795/official-energy-and-mirage-subwoofer-owners-thread#post_22263866

I have the Mirage Prestige S10, similar to the Energy VSW-10 that Vanns was selling with the RC and Veritas series. If one can find either for $300 new, it's a very nice sounding sub that would be worth it. But it does rolloff rather steeply below 30hz. So a good choice for music usage, but not the best for HT where most people want better output down to 20hz. That's why the S10.3 was so popular.
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post #43910 of 47730
2/5/13 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

This will help. See batpig's post detailing Energy and Mirage sub matchups:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1420795/official-energy-and-mirage-subwoofer-owners-thread#post_22263866

I have the Mirage Prestige S10, similar to the Energy VSW-10 that Vanns was selling with the RC and Veritas series. If one can find either for $300 new, it's a very nice sounding sub that would be worth it. But it does rolloff rather steeply below 30hz. So a good choice for music usage, but not the best for HT where most people want better output down to 20hz. That's why the S10.3 was so popular.

Please excuse my noobness when it comes to subs, but here we go.....

The S10.3 is rated to 21hz, and the VSW-10 to 23hz. They have similar size drivers, similar size boxes (the S10.3 is slightly larger), and the VSW-10 has a 300w RMS (1200w max) amp vs. the 200w RMS (800w max) amp of the S10.3. So the VSW-10 has about 50% more available power.

Based on these specs, how is it possible that the S10.3 could be better than the VSW-10 between 20-30hz?

By no means am I saying that its not true, but what differences could make that happen considering the specs?
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post #43911 of 47730
2/5/13 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgallerie View Post

By no means am I saying that its not true, but what differences could make that happen considering the specs?

As is often the case with subs, the frequency response specs lie. LOL
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post #43912 of 47730
2/5/13 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

As is often the case with subs, the frequency response specs lie. LOL

Ha......true.

But regardless of the frequency specs quoted by the manufacturer (because we know those are junk), its the same size driver, similar size box, much more power and higher quality components in the VSW-10. Based on that I would think it would able to play lower and with more authority than the S10.3.

I'm interested in how its even possible for the S10.3 to play lower with 2/3 the power of the VSW-10.

Are you implying they are lying about the power specs as well?
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post #43913 of 47730
2/5/13 at 10:39am
Well to me at least the peak power values seem a bit high compared to the RMS values in the first place... I'm more accustomed to see peak powers about twice the RMS value.
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post #43914 of 47730
2/5/13 at 11:05am
Hmmm...I just had an ad for a Bic America F12 for $187.90 from Amazon show up on the forum screen.
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post #43915 of 47730
2/5/13 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fears4Ears View Post

Hmmm...I just had an ad for a Bic America F12 for $187.90 from Amazon show up on the forum screen.
Thats a standard value sub around here. Very good value. Good output but not great accuracy. Great for someone on a budget looking for a sub for mostly ht use.
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post #43916 of 47730
2/5/13 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgallerie View Post

Ha......true.

But regardless of the frequency specs quoted by the manufacturer (because we know those are junk), its the same size driver, similar size box, much more power and higher quality components in the VSW-10. Based on that I would think it would able to play lower and with more authority than the S10.3.

I'm interested in how its even possible for the S10.3 to play lower with 2/3 the power of the VSW-10.

Are you implying they are lying about the power specs as well?

Playing lower is not at all about amplifier power. Playing lower is about the individual driver specs (which are never given) and how the box is built/configured. So it's not surprising to me at all that the S10.3 would play lower.

Playing louder is not always about amplifier power. Driver size, box configuration/size, and driver sensitivity all impact that, too.

Subwoofer frequency response specs from speaker manufacturers are often listed different from how they would perform in real world performance, so sometimes they do seem fudged. Others are obviously intentionally misleading (Def Tech is horrible about that). The best guess is that the frequency response specs are rarely better than what the manufacturer says. LOL

So now you see. Trying to compare specs doesn't always help a whole lot smile.gif
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post #43917 of 47730
2/5/13 at 11:43am
Yup...the Bic is a better use for your money than the $300 Energy mentioned. Now IF you could find a VSW10 or Prestige S10 for $300...

I've got a Prestige S8 that's great for music but I ain't even seen one of THOSE going for $300 lately.
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post #43918 of 47730
2/5/13 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fears4Ears View Post

The ONLY Energy-brand sub you should consider is the S10.3. Amazon has a used one for $292.99 shipped and eBay has a used one for $229.99 plus $30 shipping but they will take offers. A lot of us here got that sub when they were being blown out for $200 and love them. They reach down to 21Hz and are nice and tight. Again...forget about the new energy subs, and most you find locally under $300, until you're "schooled".

Thanks Everyone for your response. I appreciate your input. I am in no way committed to Energy, but from what I read it looked like a good match in quality except for the low end of the frequency response, and it just happens to be Energy.I have much to learn but it's all good.

I will check out the S10.3 for sure.

Thanks!
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post #43919 of 47730
2/5/13 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fears4Ears View Post

Yup...the Bic is a better use for your money than the $300 Energy mentioned. Now IF you could find a VSW10 or Prestige S10 for $300...

I've got a Prestige S8 that's great for music but I ain't even seen one of THOSE going for $300 lately.

I think those are gone now. Too bad. They really do sound nice for music. I use my Prestige S10 with Energy V5.1s and an HK 3390 with my computer workstation.
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post #43920 of 47730
2/5/13 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fears4Ears View Post

The guys over in the subs forums would LOVE to straighten you out! I have 4 different Energy subs. They all will hit lower than that and they were all under $200. I just won an Energy S8.2 off eBay for $60 shipped and it is even rated at 27Hz. Shop around ONLINE.

P.S.: It's been slow around here and I'm sure someone will help you out, but the sub forums have stickies devoted to sub $300 subs. Some of those are available on Amazon.

Great suggestions. Thanks!
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