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Energy Owners Thread - Page 1492

post #44731 of 47740
2/20/13 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

Only thing I ever heard being improved from someone who I know who had tried it is that it got a little louder. Other than that nothing else was noticeable. But you could definitely try it, and see for yourself.

Couldn't hurt, after all there will be 4 empty channels to play with for the time being so I will definitely try it out.
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post #44732 of 47740
2/20/13 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stol3n View Post

Between Denon and Yamaha how would their produced sound be classified...warm,bright, forward, etc?
Yamahas are generally known to be brighter when compared to the Denons. Denons are warmer and you can clearly tell that when you listen to them.
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post #44733 of 47740
2/20/13 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gostillerz View Post

This isn't freight shipping.

At 9am, I unload about 150 loose boxes that weigh roughly 50lbs each. At 5:30, I pick up about 200 loose boxes that weigh the same. It's all done by hand, in a little UPS truck that wasn't built to carry that much weight. It would make sense for freight to get it, but reports need to have certain numbers to satisfy stockholders and justify the people working in the cubicles. UPS Freight is a completely different company like FedEx home delivery is.

I hate when I see a box that is banged up, especially for electronics. I've been written up for "failure to make service" a few times for stuff that was banged up to hell and sheeted them up as damaged, even though UPS policy is not to deliver damaged goods.
So when these speakers are shipped across the country with UPS, they are in a little brown delivery truck the whole time? If that is true, that is logistically absurd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

I have a delivery problem of my own though not involving RC-70's from Frey's. I sold off my CF-30's last weekend and wanted to buy two more veritas v5.2 for surrounds to complement my three front
v5.2's. I am all stoked to get home tonight when I notice only one box on my front porch. WW stereo only sent one of my v5.2's even though my email receipt states two on the order and I was charged for two. They are only available 9 to 5 so I will have to call tomorrow morning but UPS states that only one was on tracking. Anyone have this problem with wwstereo before. My last order of two v.52's arrived just fine. If they only had one left, I would think they would have confirmed it before shipping. At least there was no shipping damage and the rosenut finish is beautiful. Is vann's my best option if wwstereo cannot fullfill my order? Thanks.
I bought three v5.2c's and only received one tracking number, but all 3 arrived in separate boxes and labels. Your other one could be delayed for whatever reason. Also, all three of the tweeters are needing to be replaced and I'm not the only one with this experience, but Ira @ wwstereo seems to be on top of the replacement procedure although nothing received in the past 7 days since he said they were ordered.
Edited by brendelac - 2/20/13 at 9:06pm
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post #44734 of 47740
2/20/13 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

Its nice to see many RC-70 owners warming up to the Denons, mostly because if you have an RC-70, thats the kind of sound you are drawn into to begin with.
However I think its also a good thing to be pairing them with a little more brighter gear to give it a little edge that can help if its not just music you are gonna be using the speakers for.
Having said that, how would a good Pioneer receiver pair with the 70s. Any models that anyone can suggest?

I would not consider the high end Pioneer or the Pioneer Elite's bright.
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post #44735 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:06pm
I have a Pioneer VSX-1020K and I like the sound it produces, but I am a little biased as I have not heard many others and this is my 3rd Pioneer receiver. The only thing that is making me want to look around is the fact that I only have a global crossover and cannot change the crossover for each speaker and I hear everyone talking about Audyssey and the Pioneers use MCACC.
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post #44736 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin_R View Post

I would not consider the high end Pioneer or the Pioneer Elite's bright.
Yeah I havent heard anyone call them bright per say. But I wonder why they arent paired that often with Energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinLH00 View Post

I hear everyone talking about Audyssey and the Pioneers use MCACC.
How did you like MCACC? Audyssey gets a lot of talk, but I assume MCACC is no slouch either?
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post #44737 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

Yeah I havent heard anyone call them bright per say. But I wonder why they arent paired that often with Energy.
How did you like MCACC? Audyssey gets a lot of talk, but I assume MCACC is no slouch either?

I like it personally. I notice a huge difference before and after I run it and I am always pleased with the results. I have never seen Audyssey in action, but the MCACC puts out a series of test tones and waves through each of the speakers and takes a few minutes to complete.
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post #44738 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinLH00 View Post

I like it personally. I notice a huge difference before and after I run it and I am always pleased with the results. I have never seen Audyssey in action, but the MCACC puts out a series of test tones and waves through each of the speakers and takes a few minutes to complete.
Audyssey does the same when it comes to the way the calibration is done, and so does YPAO.
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post #44739 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:27pm
Audyssey MultEQ uses 6 listening positions, MultEQ XT uses 8.

I think MCACC and YPAO only use one listening position. At least that's what the basic versions do.

YPAO uses a single crossover, maybe the same for MCACC? Audyssey has seperate crossovers for the front, center, surround and surround back speakers.
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post #44740 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:35pm
Just to be clear, bass management (crossovers) has nothing to do with the room calibration system. That's a decision made by the receiver manufacturer. As part of the calibration the speakers' low end performance is measured and then reported to the receiver, and the receiver sets the crossovers. There is nothing inherent to YPAO or MCACC that requires them to use one global crossover vs. independent crossovers. Bass management is a totally separate part of the receiver.
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post #44741 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stol3n View Post

So this is what I was reading about the other day...yes, it seemed very touchy. Some seemed to think it did absolutely nothing, but at the least wouldn't it provide a better ground (more wire from the speaker to the receiver), reduce distortion, and enhance the clarity?

That isn't real bi-amping. Real bi amping would require you to bypass the xo's in the speaker and yadda yadda.smile.gif
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post #44742 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:39pm
There is a pair of piano black veritas v5.1 $499 starting bid with free shipping.buy it now is $599.


No bad at all for a stereo setup.
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post #44743 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:39pm
Dont know about MCACC, but I had used YPAO few years ago, and back then it was one listening position.
Audyssey on the other hand does have its merits because of its much advanced features.
One other calibration system that comes to mind is Anthem's ARC, which is also pretty good, but it needs a pc to do its calibration.
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post #44744 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:42pm
Just purchased V Mini 5.0 from WWStero, will do a review of the V Mini bookshelf speakers once they are up and running would love to hear some feedback from current owners. Also I have no need for the center channel speaker, PM reasonable offer and its yours.
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post #44745 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stol3n View Post

I would like a receiver with at least 90w/ch. This may be a stupid question so please pardon my ignorance. If I buy a 7.1 receiver and I'm only using the 3 front speakers is there any way to use the power from any of the remaining 4 empty channels?

What made you settle on the magic number of 90? The difference between, say, 70 watts and 90 watts is around 1dB in max headroom. It requires approximately DOUBLE the power to achieve a 3dB gain in max headroom... and that's MAX headroom. For standard listening most people only use <10 watts per channel.

And this is not to mention the fact that advertised wattage is VERY misleading. There is not a lot of uniformity in how they quote the specs, plus nearly all receivers will not actually be able to achieve their rating with more than 2 channels driven.

A lot of people don't understand how little power is actually required to make speakers like the RC's play very, very loud. That's why receiver manufacturers can get away with "90 w/ch" receivers that actually only have a power supply that can handle 40-50 w/ch with all channels driven. Unless you have a very large room and/or plan to play VERY loud, I strongly recommend you detach yourself from your arbitrary wattage requirements and pay attention to the other, more important aspects of receivers (features and connectivity).

Bi-amping from the receiver is useless. It was created specifically for people like you (not picking on you, just pointing out how marketing can capitalize on the uninformed) who think they are "wasting" their receiver by not using all the amp channels. It ONLY exists because 7ch receivers became the standard, but most people still ran 5ch setup, so they thought "what can I do with these 2 wasted, unused channels?" The important thing to understand is that the limiting factor in the receiver is the power supply, not the individual amplifier channels.
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post #44746 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:45pm
So I walk into Fry's this evening into the sound room. The sales person is wrapping up the demo RC-70's in bubble wrap for a customer. This is the last pair in the store and only have about 10 hours on them. I end up talking to the buyer a little while and he heard about these speakers on AVSForum. He just starting to buld a new system and the RC-70's are his first purchase. He knows the RC LCR's are scarce but will either buy a Veritas 5.2 center or wait to find a LCR for a good price.

He listened to some Polks, Infinity 363 and maybe Klipsch towers and said the RC-70s were clearly better.

Good to know we're making a positive influence on people! smile.gif
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post #44747 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Good to know we're making a positive influence on people! smile.gif

And a negative influence on their wallets smile.gif
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post #44748 of 47740
2/20/13 at 9:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepat04 View Post

Just purchased V Mini 5.0 from WWStero, will do a review of the V Mini bookshelf speakers once they are up and running would love to hear some feedback from current owners. Also I have no need for the center channel speaker, PM reasonable offer and its yours.


How come you won't need the mini center? are you going to use the minis as surrounds?



I'm actually using then. You will be amazed by their clarity and also for their size they don't sound small.
Edited by losservatore - 2/20/13 at 10:03pm
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post #44749 of 47740
2/20/13 at 10:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

What made you settle on the magic number of 90? The difference between, say, 70 watts and 90 watts is around 1dB in max headroom. It requires approximately DOUBLE the power to achieve a 3dB gain in max headroom... and that's MAX headroom. For standard listening most people only use <10 watts per channel.

And this is not to mention the fact that advertised wattage is VERY misleading. There is not a lot of uniformity in how they quote the specs, plus nearly all receivers will not actually be able to achieve their rating with more than 2 channels driven.

A lot of people don't understand how little power is actually required to make speakers like the RC's play very, very loud. That's why receiver manufacturers can get away with "90 w/ch" receivers that actually only have a power supply that can handle 40-50 w/ch with all channels driven. Unless you have a very large room and/or plan to play VERY loud, I strongly recommend you detach yourself from your arbitrary wattage requirements and pay attention to the other, more important aspects of receivers (features and connectivity).

Bi-amping from the receiver is useless. It was created specifically for people like you (not picking on you, just pointing out how marketing can capitalize on the uninformed) who think they are "wasting" their receiver by not using all the amp channels. It ONLY exists because 7ch receivers became the standard, but most people still ran 5ch setup, so they thought "what can I do with these 2 wasted, unused channels?" The important thing to understand is that the limiting factor in the receiver is the power supply, not the individual amplifier channels.

No real reason why I settled on the magic number 90w...simply just because it was more than 70w or 80w I guess. Over the 100's of threads I've read it was my understanding that the RC-70's liked power...so starting out with more watts couldn't have been a bad thing the way I saw it. I realize now just how minute the difference can be between 75w and 90w. Thank you for helping clear that up.

I didn't really buy into or should I say understand the whole bi-amping thing but it did raise a flag and make me want to know more about it. In other words, I need to pick a nice receiver with the features I'm looking for, at a price that I'm comfortable with and call it a day. I just wish that I could have heard the Yamaha today alongside the Denon.

Seriously, thank you for the informative post. I need all the help I can get.
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post #44750 of 47740
2/20/13 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

So I walk into Fry's this evening into the sound room. The sales person is wrapping up the demo RC-70's in bubble wrap for a customer. This is the last pair in the store and only have about 10 hours on them. I end up talking to the buyer a little while and he heard about these speakers on AVSForum. He just starting to buld a new system and the RC-70's are his first purchase. He knows the RC LCR's are scarce but will either buy a Veritas 5.2 center or wait to find a LCR for a good price.

He listened to some Polks, Infinity 363 and maybe Klipsch towers and said the RC-70s were clearly better.

Good to know we're making a positive influence on people! smile.gif

I wonder just how long the RC-70's have been in FRY's demo rooms? The reason I ask is I listened several sets including the Infinity P363's and was pretty amazed at the sound for only $117/ea...I almost went with them over the RC-70's but knew without a doubt that the RC-70's were far better speakers and at $299 there was no way I was walking out of the door without a set.

I just wonder how many hours were on the set I listened to today, makes me wonder if they have even started to break in.
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post #44751 of 47740
2/20/13 at 11:53pm
Well my Fry's got the RC-70s the week of Thanksgiving but didn't even have a demo pair setup for several weeks. In fact they didn't even have a price posted for several weeks.

Finally I think they had a sign for $599 on top of the boxes but I had to ask for the Fry's part number and someone had to look it up and gave me #7386304. It wasn't in the online database at Frys.com until recently.

When they did have the demo set up they were next to a couple different Klipsch towers but the system wasn't on. I heard someone demo the Klipsch and the sales guy tell him how much better they were than the more expensive Energy speakers. The only other time I remember them being on was when I turned on the system myself.

So I bet the set you heard didn't have many hours on them either.
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post #44752 of 47740
2/21/13 at 12:35am
Looks like so many people are getting RC-70s now! I remember when I got mine...oh man that was an awesome day of music and movies!

Sadly I only had them (70s +lcr) for a week before I upgraded again rolleyes.gif
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post #44753 of 47740
2/21/13 at 12:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stol3n View Post

No real reason why I settled on the magic number 90w...simply just because it was more than 70w or 80w I guess. Over the 100's of threads I've read it was my understanding that the RC-70's liked power...so starting out with more watts couldn't have been a bad thing the way I saw it. I realize now just how minute the difference can be between 75w and 90w. Thank you for helping clear that up.

I didn't really buy into or should I say understand the whole bi-amping thing but it did raise a flag and make me want to know more about it. In other words, I need to pick a nice receiver with the features I'm looking for, at a price that I'm comfortable with and call it a day. I just wish that I could have heard the Yamaha today alongside the Denon.

Seriously, thank you for the informative post. I need all the help I can get.

Like everyone here has said watts per channel can be deceiving. I own a Yamaha RXV-671, with RC 70s, LCR, VS surounds, and dual Outlaws, not their best by any means, but it does the job. That being said, YPAO sucks compared to a room correction like Audyssey that will set individual crossovers and at the same time be able to EQ a sub (or subs). From my experience, and since I did not have the funds to take up the RC 70 offer from Frys, save your cash, or spend it on a receiver that has Audyssey XT32. That is what I'm looking forward to. IMHO.
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post #44754 of 47740
2/21/13 at 12:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Looks like so many people are getting RC-70s now! I remember when I got mine...oh man that was an awesome day of music and movies!

Sadly I only had them (70s +lcr) for a week before I upgraded again rolleyes.gif

What exactly did you upgrade to? I know you're running quad EX's, and can't imagine what your speaker upgrade was. Quad EXs is one upgrade, another thing to upgrade from 70's after a week. Please post some pics, I'd just like to see what you "upgraded" to...I'm not sure my budget, or even WAF would allow for more of an upgrade eek.gif
Edited by grizimes - 2/21/13 at 1:11am
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post #44755 of 47740
2/21/13 at 1:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

Energy should have paid for larger boxes with stronger and bigger pieces of Styrofoam there is no obligation to the store to double box then since they are already in a box with Styrofoam.


My first pair of veritas v6.3 came with dents in the back ,I return the speakers , the second pair arrive in perfect condition,same thing happened with my RC-70s and return it, then the second arrive in perfect condition.


The stores dont want to take the extra time to double box a speaker those speakers are already inside a box.But I also think that with so many returns and complains they should do it ,but they dont ,They maybe do a claim to ups then get a check from ups and sell then back as dented with a lower price.


2 members during the sale send me a message, they want a advice and they want it to get this speakers but they are out of the states and I told then (no) the speaker are not well packaging and the Styrofoam is very weak,I think one person decide it to buy then but the second person didn't do it.

after see this pictures now you know why smile.gif if you get then to hawaii without any dent good luck.

I'm one of those that "thought" of getting these speakers, but after seeing all the pictures and hearing the stories of banged up speakers i'm gld i didn't. I mean can you imagine getting these speakers to Panama and paying gigantic wages to do so, i mean over $300.00 and then getting a speaker or two damgaed like that?, could't send it back or return it or asked for a new tweeter like with the
V-5.2-C. I really feel for you guys.
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post #44756 of 47740
2/21/13 at 1:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendelac View Post

So when these speakers are shipped across the country with UPS, they are in a little brown delivery truck the whole time? If that is true, that is logistically absurd.
I bought three v5.2c's and only received one tracking number, but all 3 arrived in separate boxes and labels. Your other one could be delayed for whatever reason. Also, all three of the tweeters are needing to be replaced and I'm not the only one with this experience, but Ira @ wwstereo seems to be on top of the replacement procedure although nothing received in the past 7 days since he said they were ordered.

Be patient. Ira was really on top of things with me. He mentioned first that the available tweeter (i told him i needed two but after i fixed one told him only one was needed) would be in their hands by march. O i Contacted Energy and asked them to send me a twette, after two weeks they sent me the replacement. Just jesterday my courier told me i had a package, i thought it was the box of outer plastic sleeves for LPs i had ordered, but behold it was the two tweeters from WWWstereo that Ira had sent me. So now i have two spare V-5.2-C tweeters.smile.gif
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post #44757 of 47740
2/21/13 at 1:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizimes View Post

What exactly did you upgrade to? I know you're running quad EX's, and can't imagine what your speaker upgrade was. Quad EXs is one upgrade, another thing to upgrade from 70's after a week. Please post some pics, I'd just like to see what you "upgraded" to...I'm not sure my budget, or even WAF would allow for more of an upgrade eek.gif

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED the RC-70s and even to this day my fiance still pesters me about why I replaced them lol. But yea I was offered 3 Atlantic Tech 450e's for an incredibly low price. I have always loved Triad Speaker's Gold LCR and when I demoed the 450e in a completely treated room I could not tell the difference between the Triad Gold LCR and the 450e. So yea I jumped on the 450e right away biggrin.gif At first my fiance didn't like them but she started hearing "more" details and better clarity on Game of Thrones so she finally accepted them.
(Funny thing to note is if you look up Atlantic Tech 450e in image google you can see my TV set up with my RC-10s and LCR!)

I do have my eyes set on the JTR Noesis 228s. For an intro price of 999, I think that is a steal! Also probably going to get rid of the QuadEXs as I have already ordered parts for a few LMS-R DIY subs.

I gave my 70s to my parents and I actually still have my RC-LCR. Keeping it just in case I might want to use an RC set up in the bed room. Plus I think it looks sexy:D
Edited by pokekevin - 2/21/13 at 1:27am
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post #44758 of 47740
2/21/13 at 1:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post



Ok guys here is the pic of my base speaker cracked dented. I dont know how frys will give me a refund of this. They want to see the damaged first before they give me a refund. What do you think guys? Is it a bad enough damage?

That appears to be cosmetic only, I would work on a credit from Fry's. Even if they don't give you one, I'd keep the speaker and go with plan B, ask Energy for a free one. Tell them the packagaing was perfect, and that the base may well have been damaged at the factory. If that doesn't fly buy one if available. If all fails go with plan C which is to take some black touch up paint, or even a Black Sharpie and color in the cracks. The crack is on the back and will never be seen. This is too good of a deal to return them over that amount of damage, especialy since replacement may well be non existent at this point.
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post #44759 of 47740
2/21/13 at 5:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

What made you settle on the magic number of 90? The difference between, say, 70 watts and 90 watts is around 1dB in max headroom. It requires approximately DOUBLE the power to achieve a 3dB gain in max headroom... and that's MAX headroom. For standard listening most people only use <10 watts per channel.

And this is not to mention the fact that advertised wattage is VERY misleading. There is not a lot of uniformity in how they quote the specs, plus nearly all receivers will not actually be able to achieve their rating with more than 2 channels driven.

A lot of people don't understand how little power is actually required to make speakers like the RC's play very, very loud. That's why receiver manufacturers can get away with "90 w/ch" receivers that actually only have a power supply that can handle 40-50 w/ch with all channels driven. Unless you have a very large room and/or plan to play VERY loud, I strongly recommend you detach yourself from your arbitrary wattage requirements and pay attention to the other, more important aspects of receivers (features and connectivity).

Bi-amping from the receiver is useless. It was created specifically for people like you (not picking on you, just pointing out how marketing can capitalize on the uninformed) who think they are "wasting" their receiver by not using all the amp channels. It ONLY exists because 7ch receivers became the standard, but most people still ran 5ch setup, so they thought "what can I do with these 2 wasted, unused channels?" The important thing to understand is that the limiting factor in the receiver is the power supply, not the individual amplifier channels.
Totally agree with this post except for the bi amping part. The existence or concept of biamping has absolutely nothing to do with 7 ch receivers and has been around long before the ideas of surround sound. Bi amping can be beneficial but only if the speaker crossover is completely defeated. This makes it impractical for most home applications.
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post #44760 of 47740
2/21/13 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Well my Fry's got the RC-70s the week of Thanksgiving but didn't even have a demo pair setup for several weeks. In fact they didn't even have a price posted for several weeks.

Finally I think they had a sign for $599 on top of the boxes but I had to ask for the Fry's part number and someone had to look it up and gave me #7386304. It wasn't in the online database at Frys.com until recently.

When they did have the demo set up they were next to a couple different Klipsch towers but the system wasn't on. I heard someone demo the Klipsch and the sales guy tell him how much better they were than the more expensive Energy speakers. The only other time I remember them being on was when I turned on the system myself.

So I bet the set you heard didn't have many hours on them either.

Luckily for me I have (2) Fry's stores within 60 miles of my house. The first store had only the demos remaining and the 2nd store had (1) pair of RC-70's in stock. Usually, if one store is out the other will have it. biggrin.gif

The RC-70's were also next to the Klipsch speakers at my stores, and at both locations the sales guys kept trying to sell me the Klipsch speakers. Strange. At the 2nd location I had the misfortune of dealing with someone who didn't have the slightest clue about anything, he couldn't even get the receivers to play. I asked him several questions about the RC-70's and knew I was in trouble whenever he told me that they had been selling the RC-70's for the past 2 years. As bad as it sounds I shrugged him off and came back 30 minutes later. I was then able to spend a fair amount of time in the auditioning room alone to get a feel for them without him hovering over me talking to me about speakers he knew nothing about. After giving it some more thought I'm quite sure the set I heard were still fresh out of the box. I mean if he knew nothing about them and the sales team always pushed the Klipsch speakers how could they have any hours on them?

Let me just say that the salesman was polite and did his best to try to help. I'm very new to this as well but at least I did enough research to know that the RC-70's were a steal of a deal at $299.
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