Energy Owners Thread - Page 1522

The adjustable parameters for PLII Music work as follows:

Center Width = controls the "spread" of sound between the fronts and center (as you discovered). At the max setting the center gets a full mix and the L/R speakers are muted, and at the min setting the center is muted and all the stereo content goes to the L/R speakers.

Dimension = controls how much audio is extracted to the surrounds (front/back balance).

Panorama = an on/off setting which, when ON, creates a "wraparound" effect (the surrounds will be more noticeable, more like multich stereo)


For the other settings:

AFDM = Auto Flag Detect Mode. When ON, the receiver will automatically detect the "flag" for 6.1 soundtracks (Dolby Digital EX and DTS-ES) and decode the surr back channel encoded in the soundtrack. When OFF, you can control when the surround back channels are mixed.

SB = Surround Back setting... following from the above, this settings controls whether the back surrounds get audio with 5.1 content. If it's off, a 5.1 track will play as 5.1, and the surround backs will be silent. I don't remember exactly for that older receiver but I believe the "ON" setting will just copy the surrounds to the surround backs. The "Matrix" setting will attempt to mix the audio from the surrounds more directionally into the surround backs.


As others have noted, you may want to consider upgrading to a more modern Denon with Audyssey calibration. In addition to the calibration there will be more options for 7ch upmixing (e.g. PLIIx) and a couple of important Audyssey features, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, which will make a pretty major difference in sound quality at moderate volumes. It sounds like you (like me) don't get to turn it up too loud before people yell at you, and Dynamic EQ/Vol make a HUGE difference in the fullness and richness of the surround content at lower levels.

@batpig

Man that sucks. I feel for you. Hopefully you'll find some way to keep all your gear.

@darkfudge

That's a big room for a 10" sub. I'm also guessing the seating position is not all the way back and closer to the middle of the room. The 2 things that come to my mind are 1. Get another ported sub. Put it in the front of the room. Keep the stf-2 next to or behind the couch. If the couch is near the middle of the room, you might be sitting in a null.
2. Move the stf-2 to another setup and get 2 identical subs (sealed or ported) to run with the v-mini setup. While I will say 12" or more, the only exception I see is the svs pb1000 (10").

Batpig no more energy setup?

I was thinking about a Marantz SR5006 $499 or the old Marantz SR 8002 still on bid $409 on eBay it will definitely go higher or last go with the slim Marantz NR1603 7.1 $399.

What you think? The slim plays really good and loud for a small receiver.

Congrats. Your new setup looks great.
If your room and aesthetics allows, you should consider placing the subwoofer at a non-null position, which could be somewhere not in your front stage, depending on your room. To identify such a position, place your subwoofer in the listening spot and move around the room while it plays some bass to find the spot where you hear the best bass, and place your subwoofer there.

I'll still have an Energy setup, I'm thinking I will move the RC-Mini's that I use as surrounds to front L/R, grab an extremely cheap pair of small speakers (Takes or Micros) for surrounds, and use an older ES-8 sub I have sitting around unused in place of the Prestige sub. If will be a "downscale" but still good quality and more than plenty for my current needs. I just evaluated my setup and decided those two were the ones I could get the most cost effective return on to raise some cash in the short term.

Didn't you just buy a Marantz? What is this other receiver for?

Where did you get the speakers?

A friend of mine gave me 5 RC-10s to sell. Upon further inspection, the cabinets look pretty rough. As for how they sound, no idea as I haven't hooked them up to my system. I just dusted them off so far.

Folks, when I was about to pull the trigger on these V-Minis....I read this review on Amazon and almost didnt buy them because of this write up. Is there any validity to this review? Im not an audiophile so I am asking some of you that may have compared the V-Minis to the Veritas 5.1 speakers. Are they really missing certain ranges of frequencies?? And whats up with those Boston Acoustics that he is recommending over these???.....Thoughts?



"Sound as small as they look., August 29, 2012
By
georghem "georghem" (Oregon, WI United States) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Energy Veritas V-Mini 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker - Each (Rosenut) (Electronics)
I really wanted to like these. I bought a pair of V-Minis plus a V-Mini Center to turn my Energy Veritas V-5.1 Bookshelf Speaker (Piano Black) into a 5 channel setup. Figured the matching components and finish would complement the Veritas perfectly. Wrong on both counts.

Be advised, the V-Mini rosenut finish is more of a matte finish than the Veritas line, and significantly darker. So they don't match.

More importantly, these really do not sound so hot, even after break-in. Yes, they are crisp. And I suppose they could be called punchy. But they are a grating, overly bright kind of crisp. And punchy only in the sense that they pop mightily trying to reproduce upper mid bass. They give up entirely lower down, to the point where you simply have no idea that there IS a kickdrum in some music. I did a bunch of A-B-C-D listening in my home with multiple speakers and amps, and these V-Minis came in last in every configuration. They become just ok when helped by a sub, but the highs still sound shrill and the mids still sound hollow and distant, like a speakerphone.

The bigger Veritas 5.1s have their own issues, but are generally good-sounding beautiful-looking speakers. These, not so much. I ended up buying the Boston Acoustics SNDWRESHTSB Compact Home Theater System - High Gloss Finish (Black) 5.1 system recently, and it is head and shoulders above what the V-Minis could accomplish. If you are looking to build a full setup, the Bostons will cost about half as much as a 5-channel set of the V-Mini line, will fit anywhere, and include a surprisingly good subwoofer to boot. "

You might also look at a dedicated mid bass module like the MBM-12 MK2

This will fill in the 50-150Hz frequencies well.

Thats practically what the stf2 is.

Darkfudge - Going by your concerns and the fact that you are trying hard to like the minis, but they still arent there yet when it comes to what you are looking for, I think that you should listen to other mini systems and try to compare if what you are looking for are actually things that a mini setup could deliver.

If other mini systems that you listen to are able to deliver the things you are looking for, then you should consider buying what you like, rather than trying to do different things to make the v-minis work for your needs.

Sounds like me! I have RC-30s, RC-LCR, RC-10s, V5.1's, Jamo C403s, BIC DV62si's, S10.3, S8.2, C-50's and a C-C50 all in my 1000 sq. ft. condo. I'm at my gf's townhouse most of the time, so its pretty much my mancave. Since she doesnt see them, I dont get yelled at too much about them.



DarkFudge, you simply cannot compare the mini's to the 5.1's. They are completely different animals. If you bought the mini's expecting the same performance of the V5.1's, you were mistaken in your purchase. This guy reviewing the mini's was making the same mistake in comparing them to the V5.1's.

The v-mini's are typically well regarded for their performance with respect to their size. They are small speakers and will never give you the sound stage or the impact that a full size bookshelf or tower speaker will give you.
Edited by kgallerie - 3/8/13 at 11:06am

Not completely In this review, they found that: "Using 104 dB as a midpoint, the 2M GP FR curve measured an outstanding +/- 2 dB from 25-100 Hz. The response was –9 dB (95 dB) at 20 Hz. With respect to dynamic compression, the curve stayed linear up to 102-103 dB in the 25-40 Hz bandwidth.
"

So it performed well at low to about 100 Hz, but that was its range. The MBM-12 MK2 covers the upper ranges of the stf2 and expands to cover the gap between it and the lower range of the V minis.

Here's the forum thread for the MBM-12 MK2

thank you sir. yes, that is my next thing to do to look for a better spot for my sub.

I found them on a Canadian site called Canuck Audio Mart. My first time buying through there. Great place for used gear.

Wow, that's worse (or better, depending how you look at it) than me! I'm lucky that her Dad is an audiophile, so she's been brought up in a house full of audio gear. My RC-70's look tiny compared to the Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater's he has throughout their house. Here's a pic of the speakers I found on teh interwebs:

kgallerie is right dark fudge. These speakers perform exceptionally well for their size, but shouldnt be compared to full size bookshelf speakers. If you can find them for the right price the v-mini's are well worth the money. I just bought them last week for a great deal, and i love them!

Dark the veritas minis are less bright than the large speakers and a little bit brighter than Rc in other words to me the mini tweeter sound better than my v towers and Rc tweeter the rc tweeter I found it too laidback with lacking details,I can clearly heard on the v every little tiny detail but I also found that on some recordings the sibilance sounds too prominent , also the v minis are a clone of the rc minis so I'm not sure what your are trying to look on a mini speaker ,rc mini and veritas are satellite speakers ,Ill recommend to look for bookshelf with a larger drivers.

If we are talking here about two very good quality speakers that have their pros and cons i imagine the cons of his Boston acoustic


so this guy choose a pretty bad option.
Edited by losservatore - 3/8/13 at 1:37pm

Yeah, Canuck is great. I've used it a few times to sell my gear.

I'll probably be using it to flip by friend's RC-10s.

I just finished listening to all 5 RC-10s and they sound really nice, even without a sub. I used Roxy Music's SACD of Avalon for my "testing".
Edited by audit13 - 3/8/13 at 1:47pm

on a side note.. what is best INEXPENSIVE way to play SACD, other than on a PC? Do Sony (S590) or Pioneer Elite (62FD) BD players that say they play SACD.. play MultiCh SACD as well?

I think Sony BdPs are the answer. AFAIK they do full multich SACD over HDMI.

You can't play an SACD on a computer, but you can play an SACD iso on a computer using Foobar.

If you want to send a DSD stream to your receiver or pre/pro, find a player that will output DSD. The Sony 590 will play stereo and multichannel SACD and output the signal via hdmi.

Pioneer BDP 140 will play sacd via hdmi and optical. It will play flac files up to 24/194 in 5.1. There is a bug in the code though, the flac files need to be renamed mp3. They play at full resolution.

Also if your receiver doesn't do DSD direct stream make sure the player you get doesn't do a downrezzed PCM conversion on multich SACD. Some players downsample the SACD multich output to 48kHz/16-bit.

In an amazing twist of fate, and a massive testatment to the WAF of the rosenut finish on the RC's, my wife told me not to bother trying to sell my RC-10's at this point. I had offered to do this proactively to be the responsible husband, but she instructed me to hold off. Her comment, "you aren't going to find any other speakers that I like!" So there you go. Off the market for now

The Mirage Prestige S8 sub is still available if anyone is interested though, my wife would never be upset to see a subwoofer disappear

Thats funny about the sub batpig. Good for you on the 10-'s.

Cool

You should just make your own rosenut subwoofer anyways...lol! My AVS buddy, who also lives in San Diego, just ordered this flat pack and driver...http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/4-sub-flat-pack.html and he is going to use the driver for which that box can be specifically designed for...http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-472 Rosenut finish and bam, you come out ahead!

This was great to read...I've been out of action for a few days due to food poisoning, but reading your earlier post on having to part with your RC-10's [which I read a few hours ago before going to bed to recoup] actually had me pretty depressed -- if anyone on here deserves to enjoy their Energy gear, it would certainly be Mr. Batpig!

As for the sub, well -- I think that will be easier to replace, if you do end up parting with it -- that finish on the RC-10's though...definitely something to value, which thankfully your wife does!
Good on you for being a 'responsible grown up' when needed, though!

I know this is an older post and sorry if someone already responded to this. Yes your fronts crossover needs to be a bit hight er (80hz is recommended) But the reason for my post is I think your sub is set too high. From eveything I've read on Audessey, after you've run the prongram if your sub is higher or lower then +/- 3dbs with 0 being ideal. If you fell like you need a little more pop then adjust but give If time. it's going to seem like your bass is gone but it's not you just have a balanced system now which your not use too. (it happen to me) your going to want to adjust your sub dial and re run audussey. In your case I would turn the volum down on your sub. If I'm wrong or someone has already told you this then disregard. Just figured you were looking for some tweaks and this was one that stood out

Its funny how, as a kid you would always think that after growing up you wouldnt have to ask someone to do what you wanted to do. And then when you are older, you are still asking the wife/gf if you can do something you want. Sigh! You're never free.

I am. If you have to ask for everything that is the choice that you have made.

Right... But to be fair, I couldn't afford the great in the first place if I wasn't living with her. She also owns more than half of the living room so she certainly have veto power over what gets installed there.