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Energy Owners Thread - Page 1559

post #46741 of 51496
I currently run dual energy S10.3 subs for listening to home theater. What are some opinions of step-up subs? How much would it cost for significant bass over what I currently have? For example, the outlaw lfm-1ex is $629. Would one of these clobber two s10.3? How much can you turn up the volume knob on an s10.3? I set it at 12:00 position and ran audssey and it set them at a large negative number. Turning them to 8:00 position and audssey set it at -9.5. Don't want to damage anything nor spend money needlessly for no improvement. Thanks.
post #46742 of 51496
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

I currently run dual energy S10.3 subs for listening to home theater. What are some opinions of step-up subs? How much would it cost for significant bass over what I currently have? For example, the outlaw lfm-1ex is $629. Would one of these clobber two s10.3? How much can you turn up the volume knob on an s10.3? I set it at 12:00 position and ran audssey and it set them at a large negative number. Turning them to 8:00 position and audssey set it at -9.5. Don't want to damage anything nor spend money needlessly for no improvement. Thanks.

IMHO dual s10.3s give pretty solid output, so the most noticeable improvement you'd get would be to go for extension (output below 20hz) since that's an area the s10.3 just doesn't hit. Although I'm not familiar with outlaw at all. As a fellow dual s10.3 owner I can tell you my next sub upgrade will probably be a Hsu vtf-15h or a comparable rythmik. I don't want to spend money and get the upgrade bug two years later. My s10.3s will suffice until I can afford to do it big.

Try posting your Q in the subwoofer forum and you'll get some advice from folks who live for LFE. Just expect a few outrageous suggestions like quad submersives!

Edit: nvm I see you've posted in the outlaw thread. I'd also recommend checking out some comparisons or subwoofer shootout threads that include the outlaw.
Edited by JuEv0splash - 4/11/13 at 8:02pm
post #46743 of 51496
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

I currently run dual energy S10.3 subs for listening to home theater. What are some opinions of step-up subs? How much would it cost for significant bass over what I currently have? For example, the outlaw lfm-1ex is $629. Would one of these clobber two s10.3? How much can you turn up the volume knob on an s10.3? I set it at 12:00 position and ran audssey and it set them at a large negative number. Turning them to 8:00 position and audssey set it at -9.5. Don't want to damage anything nor spend money needlessly for no improvement. Thanks.

If you do a lot of music listening, sealed subs would provide a nice balance of tight musicality and room pressurization for ht. I have an outlaw lfm-ex and its great for ht. but if you want both look at power sound audio. Great bang for the buck. I'm not saying the outlaw is bad for music, just that sealed subs sound much better IMO.
post #46744 of 51496
Yeah I did post in the outlaw thread and the general response seemed to be an upgrade but how much is the question. I have no interest in adding more subs. Any new sub would replace the existing pair. I guess I'm just thinking theoretically at this point rather than making a switch.
post #46745 of 51496
I have a totally unrelated question about my receiver set up. It is a denon 1913 and running a 5.2 speaker configuration. The rear surround speakers are five feet behind the main listening position at the corners of the room. Should I have the speakers plugged into the surround ports or surround rear right/left ports? The speakers are both behind and to the sides of the MLP. Does it make a difference? Thanks.
post #46746 of 51496
It makes a big difference, because if you plug them into the surround back ports it won't work wink.gif

In a 5.1 setup, surrounds are surrounds, period. Even if you have them placed incorrectly and they are behind you, they are still surrounds. No content will flow to the surround back speakers unless you are running a 6.1/7.1 setup.

In terms of the subwoofer question... it really depends on what you feel you are missing right now. And what your goals are. Assuming your dual subs are in different spots in the room (no colocated) swapping lesser dual subs for a single superior sub will probably yield deeper extension (the S10.3's peter out fast below 25Hz and probably do nothing below 20Hz) and potentially greater maximum output, but you will lose the advantage of dual subs in that it won't have as smooth of a combined response across the listening area. Personally, I'd probably wait until you can afford TWO better subs (e.g. $1000-1500 total) to maintain the best of all worlds.

If you all you want is MORE bass though, you can simply turn up the subs you have currently. Adding a better sub won't make the bass louder -- Audyssey will still calibrate the sub to the same volume. It will have more headroom, and extend deeper, and might be cleaner, but it won't be louder. To make the sub louder, relative to the other speakers, you can just turn it up. Unless you are listening REALLY loud or have a huge room, you likely still have plenty of headroom left in the current subs. For example, you could try raising the sub trim from -9.5 up 3-5dB higher to run the subs a little "hot". Also make sure your speakers are all set to "small" with at least an 80Hz crossover so the bass is going to the subs.
post #46747 of 51496
I was surprised when reading thru my rc70 manual that Nowhere it gives you any indication on how to use the port plugs and/or why type of deal.
post #46748 of 51496
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

Yeah I did post in the outlaw thread and the general response seemed to be an upgrade but how much is the question. I have no interest in adding more subs. Any new sub would replace the existing pair. I guess I'm just thinking theoretically at this point rather than making a switch.

Again and again I find myself agreeing with batpig rolleyes.gif

The dual S10.3 are good quality subs and any potential upgrade will depend on what your objectives are. "Better" subs provide basically three things:

  1. Lower distortion (i.e. reproduction fidelity). Most reasonably good subs are ok with that at least at moderate volume. The problem is getting low distortion at high volumes. No need to upgrade because of that if you don't hear any distortion at the volumes you want to listen to.
  2. General output. If you need to fill a large space with thundering bass, it takes very powerful subs. Or, if you want to listen loud, close to reference levels, and/or maybe with the subs a bit hot, then you may hit the limits of your subs. A bigger sub amp and driver with more displacement push back those limits. So this is a good reason to upgrade if you ever hit the limits of your subs (which is related to point 1 above of course). In some subs though, there is a limiter which limits distortion even if the sub is performing at its limits. So you don't hear anything bad, the sub simply just doesn't go any louder. If you never ever get to the limits of your subs, then no need to upgrade for this particular reason.
  3. Extension. Better subs are able to reproduce lower frequency waveforms with authority and non-negligible output. Significant output at 20 Hz is often considered to be the threshold to distinguish a good sub from a good home theater-focused sub. Going below 25 Hz is exponentially more difficult and thus expensive. ID subs around $700 are able to reach 20 Hz with authority in general. Going below that, depending on your room, can be quite expensive. Is it worth it? Well, the problem is, you have to try it to know. Basically, 20 Hz waveforms are barely audible at all. But at high volume, subsonic waveforms feel like pressure in the room, fluttering on your skin, rumbles or tremors on the floor and furniture. At low volume, they do basically nothing. So for that to be worth it, you have to be able to listen relatively loud, or else, your money is a bit wasted. A good example of what extension can provide is the "Bass, I Love You" piece, which is specially crafted (like many others) to test big subs. Listening to it on a tablet, for example, you simply don't hear the bass line. On a HTiB, you get a subtle hint that there is one. The lower you sub's extension is, the more you "unlock" notes. The bass line features notes between 31 and 36 Hz, but my most recent sub purchase allowed me to clearly hear the 17 Hz note. I say hear, but it's more a feeling that air is being sucked out of the room when the note is hit. Very strange feeling. However that 7 Hz note will remain forever out of reach for me smile.gif

Thus, if you're not hitting your present sub's limits, do not hear any distortion, and don't want to listen too loud and/or don't mind much about rumbles, don't bother upgrading for now. If any of this is of interest to you, then go ahead, but if you like having dual subs, I'm with batpig on this. Wait until you have enough money to buy dual subs that achieve 20 Hz extension. This will run you somewhere between $1200 and $1500. Half of that of course if you feel dual subs is not warranted, but the consensus seems to be that two subs are better than a single one twice the price.
post #46749 of 51496
^ Neutro - Once again, a great explanation on subs. Thumbed up your post.
post #46750 of 51496
Did someone mention power sound audio? cool.gif
post #46751 of 51496
^
I just love the look of brand new speaker finishes! Enjoy!!!
post #46752 of 51496
I'd love to hear what this does to Bass, I Love You biggrin.gif
post #46753 of 51496
Go with the recommendations you won't regret it wink.gif.
post #46754 of 51496
Anyone have any experiance listening to the C-8's ? There is a pair in African Rosewood for sale in the orange county craigs list, Tustin California.
Seller is asking 500.00. Nice looking speakers in that polished African Rosewood finish.
post #46755 of 51496
I think that's johnb from this thread. Since he got his APS5+2 and then the Veritas V2.2i he's clearing out the C-8's.

Hank also owns a pair of C-8.
post #46756 of 51496
Thanks batpig
post #46757 of 51496
There is a pair of the C-4 in the polished African Rosewood finish in my area for 140.00.
post #46758 of 51496
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think that's johnb from this thread. Since he got his APS5+2 and then the Veritas V2.2i he's clearing out the C-8's.

Hank also owns a pair of C-8.

how do you find someone on here? I would like to see if the johnb is the same guy
post #46759 of 51496
Well I happen to be pretty sure it's him because I remember that he had a pair of C-8 in rosewood and talked on this thread about selling them, and was asking us what we thought a fair price was. And he's in Orange County too. It would be too much of a coincidence it if wasn't him. His userid is "johnb4467" if you want to PM him.

I haven't heard the larger towers but I have a lot of experience with the C-2 bookshelf version and they sound fantastic. The C-4 is basically the tower version of the C-2 (simple 2-driver 2-way tower design, one woofer one tweeter) but with a larger 8" woofer so I would bet it sounds great too, $140 would be quite a deal if the speaker is in good shape. The larger C-6 and C-8 versions have dual woofer + the tweeter, with the C-6 having dual 6.5" woofers and the C-8 flagship having dual 8" woofers.

Here's a link to the manual for the series if you want to check out the specs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/juzwkprahs0o20a/Energy%20Connoisseur%20%26%20Pro-series-owners-manual-en.pdf
post #46760 of 51496
Thanks batpig for the all the info. I am going to try to locate him on here. Any luck he will ship them even though his craigslist ad says local pickup.
Maybe if I mention this thread he might be willing. Will look through the info you provided for the matching center.
post #46761 of 51496
Are you talking about the C-4's that are local? Or do you mean you'd want johnb to try and ship the C-8's to you from California? That would be pretty expensive, not sure if it would be a good value once you price in shipping, but the C-4's local for $140 is a very good deal.

The matching center for those "even number" Connoisseurs is the AC-300.
post #46762 of 51496
C-4 local about 80 miles from me. The C-8's would need to be shipped. Both are in the same rosewood finish
post #46763 of 51496
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowyo View Post

I was surprised when reading thru my rc70 manual that Nowhere it gives you any indication on how to use the port plugs and/or why type of deal.

If the speakers are placed close to rear of side walls, using the port plugs may help reduce the sometimes detrimental effect of such placement, especially in the lower/mid bass region.

There is no harm in experimenting with no plugs, 1 plug, or 2 plugs.
Edited by audit13 - 4/13/13 at 6:25am
post #46764 of 51496
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Well I happen to be pretty sure it's him because I remember that he had a pair of C-8 in rosewood and talked on this thread about selling them, and was asking us what we thought a fair price was. And he's in Orange County too. It would be too much of a coincidence it if wasn't him. His userid is "johnb4467" if you want to PM him.

I haven't heard the larger towers but I have a lot of experience with the C-2 bookshelf version and they sound fantastic. The C-4 is basically the tower version of the C-2 (simple 2-driver 2-way tower design, one woofer one tweeter) but with a larger 8" woofer so I would bet it sounds great too, $140 would be quite a deal if the speaker is in good shape. The larger C-6 and C-8 versions have dual woofer + the tweeter, with the C-6 having dual 6.5" woofers and the C-8 flagship having dual 8" woofers.

Here's a link to the manual for the series if you want to check out the specs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/juzwkprahs0o20a/Energy%20Connoisseur%20%26%20Pro-series-owners-manual-en.pdf

Thanks for getting baron & I in touch, batpig, as you are [of course] correct in that they are mine.
Like you mentioned though, I'm not sure what shipping would cost...might be somewhat pricey.

I know I asked a while back, but thought I'd run it by again price-wise. I'm mostly just looking to make up for some of the expenses of the other speakers (and of course my initial expense for the C-8's), and would LOVE for them to go to an AVS forum member.
I think Hank sold his for $400 (canadian?), and I think I paid $450 (US) when I bought mine.
Is around that ballpark range a reasonable amount to ask?

I think shipping might be the major variable. I looked in my PDF manual, but it didn't have weight; any idea how much each speaker weighs? I've never shipped anything even remotely near their weight before, so I've no clue as to cost...and would certainly want to package them properly.
Baron2 and I have been in contact, so maybe we can figure out that 'mystery variable'. wink.gif
Edited by johnb4467 - 4/12/13 at 9:09pm
post #46765 of 51496
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnb4467 View Post

Thanks for getting baron & I in touch, batpig, as you are [of course] correct in that they are mine.
Like you mentioned though, I'm not sure what shipping would cost...might be somewhat pricey.

I know I asked a while back, but thought I'd run it by again price-wise. I'm mostly just looking to make up for some of the expenses of the other speakers (and of course my initial expense for the C-8's), and would LOVE for them to go to an AVS forum member.
I think Hank sold his for $400 (canadian?), and I think I paid $450 (US) when I bought mine.
Is around that ballpark range a reasonable amount to ask?

I think shipping might be the major variable. I looked in my PDF manual, but it didn't have weight; any idea how much each speaker weighs? I've never shipped anything even remotely near their weight before, so I've no clue as to cost...and would certainly want to package them properly.
Baron2 and I have been in contact, so maybe we can figure out that 'mystery variable'. wink.gif

That would be awesome for them to go to another member.

Those C-8s look like beasts though. What do they weigh, like 85 lbs each? 100 maybe?
post #46766 of 51496
John just sent you a pm. I was wondering on the finish of those C-8's Is it like the Veritas with real wood vaneer and a laquer finish? They sure look nice.
post #46767 of 51496
If I know the weight and dimmensions of the speakers then I can go to my Fedex guy and he can recommend the proper size box taking into consideration of how much foam to put in them and get a shipping quote
post #46768 of 51496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic View Post

That would be awesome for them to go to another member.

Those C-8s look like beasts though. What do they weigh, like 85 lbs each? 100 maybe?

Mac, I dont know if you saw Johns pictures of his C-8's in rosewood but they are nice looking.
They look like hey could weigh a good 90 pounds each.
post #46769 of 51496
Quote:
Originally Posted by baron2 View Post

John just sent you a pm. I was wondering on the finish of those C-8's Is it like the Veritas with real wood vaneer and a laquer finish? They sure look nice.

EDIT: here it says they're 68lbs each:
http://www.excelsis.com/1.0/entry.php?sectionid=15&entryid=9

--

I'm pretty sure they're not real-wood like the newer Veritas (if I understand the terminology correctly); it's kind of a 'layer' on top of whatever is behind it. Sorry...I'm probably way off on proper terminology here.
It does have the same glossy finish of of 2.2i's though, yes...which I'm assuming is similar to the newer Veritas and RC's. Haven't seen either in person to be sure though.

As for weight, I'm not sure. My APS 5+2's weigh, I believe, 89lbs each...and the C-8's definitely feel significantly lighter than those...so I don't think they're in the 80's or anything.
Admittedly, I've always been bad at guessing weight though. :-/
They definitely are not 'small' speakers...by any stretch of the imagination!

Dimensions should be in that PDF batpig linked to. It just didn't have the weight, at least not in the PDF I have on my computer here at home.
Edited by johnb4467 - 4/12/13 at 10:45pm
post #46770 of 51496
Thanks John for the info, I will be in touch one way or the other after doing some Fedex research.
Also what I meant on the finish of the C-8 is it a wood vaneer on top of the particle board used for building the cabinet
Edited by baron2 - 4/12/13 at 11:41pm
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