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Energy Owners Thread - Page 1580

post #47371 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post

Al lot of people ask him already regarding of his speakers including me to buy it individually but no luck. He really wants to unload everything for just one shot for all of them.

He needs to rethink that.

I don't know anyone who wants six R/L quality speakers (RC-70,50), two quality surrounds (RCR), two quality bookshevels (RC-10), the center, a low level sub (still good, but not the best) and a receiver. If he breaks it up into at least saleable chunks, they probably will move fast, otherwise he will be hanging on to them.

You're talking about an 11.1 system with a receiver that can't manage that, or several rooms, some two channel.
post #47372 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

He needs to rethink that.

I don't know anyone who wants six R/L quality speakers (RC-70,50), two quality surrounds (RCR), two quality bookshevels (RC-10), the center, a low level sub (still good, but not the best) and a receiver. If he breaks it up into at least saleable chunks, they probably will move fast, otherwise he will be hanging on to them.

You're talking about an 11.1 system with a receiver that can't manage that, or several rooms, some two channel.

I agree. Offer them up for a decent price individually (or in pairs for the 70, 50, 10) and they'll be picked off soon enough. Ask for them all sold together, or ask outrageous individual/pair prices and he'll have them far longer than he will want (if space is truly the issue).
post #47373 of 51596
I keep on telling him that maybe it's better for him to sell it separately but he don't want it. He really prefer to unload everything in one shot.
post #47374 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post

I keep on telling him that maybe it's better for him to sell it separately but he don't want it. He really prefer to unload everything in one shot.

When enough time passes, he may realize that you were trying to help him, and most likely will break them up.

Only time will tell.
post #47375 of 51596
We will meet tonight to pick up my rc lcr.i will ask him if he is willing to sell it by group or individual. If any one is interested buying the speakers can you please let me know which speakers you want so that I can tellhim and wickwhich speakers you Want to buy. Well see maybe he will change his mind. Who knows.
post #47376 of 51596
Okay guys I just called him just now asking again if he can sell it individually or separately but unfortunately he said again NO. Sorry guys.
post #47377 of 51596
someone just got a RC-LCR for 362.00 new in box on ebay. Decent deal, my cap was 290xx. somone went high roller at the last 30 seconds. smile.gif

http://goo.gl/aslDa
post #47378 of 51596
I'm jealous. You guys have some really nice systems, and are consistantly upgrading. I have two girls in college and have trouble just scraping up the money for anything halfway decent. And then a tough time finding the time to actually enjoy it.

I guess I should have been born rich instead of handsome. rolleyes.gif
post #47379 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

And then a tough time finding the time to actually enjoy it.

Amen to that. Why is it that when I have one free hour, I spend it *tinkering* with the setup (REW measurements, trying out settings, etc.) instead of enjoying it biggrin.gif
Quote:
I guess I should have been born rich instead of handsome. rolleyes.gif

Lol. Well I'm neither. On one hand, this forum is directly responsible for me spending truckloads of money in my HT setup. On the other hand, I think that money was particularly well spent compared to what I would have bought if I never consulted the forum in the first place. So... win/win? tongue.gif
post #47380 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

I'm jealous. You guys have some really nice systems, and are consistantly upgrading. I have two girls in college and have trouble just scraping up the money for anything halfway decent. And then a tough time finding the time to actually enjoy it.

I guess I should have been born rich instead of handsome. rolleyes.gif

Well I have heard this on a number of occassions our animals after time start to look like us. Nice avatar pic you got there:D
If I had kids to put through college or just had kids I would be doing the same thing you are. Sounds like your priorities are in the right
spot.smile.gif My kids are in my avatar, though they do eat their share of food.
post #47381 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Amen to that. Why is it that when I have one free hour, I spend it *tinkering* with the setup (REW measurements, trying out settings, etc.) instead of enjoying it biggrin.gif
Lol. Well I'm neither. On one hand, this forum is directly responsible for me spending truckloads of money in my HT setup. On the other hand, I think that money was particularly well spent compared to what I would have bought if I never consulted the forum in the first place. So... win/win? tongue.gif

Striving for the ultimate perfection seems to be the nature of the beast.
Nothing wrong with that, as long as the end result brings you happiness.
post #47382 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by baron2 View Post

Well I have heard this on a number of occassions our animals after time start to look like us. Nice avatar pic you got there:D
If I had kids to put through college or just had kids I would be doing the same thing you are. Sounds like your priorities are in the right
spot.smile.gif My kids are in my avatar, though they do eat their share of food.

Lol, I have been told that quite often. Luckily for me then, that my wife finds Bulldogs adorable smile.gif

Very nice dogs you have there. We have two, which we find a handful at times, I can only imagine three.
post #47383 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by eah9 View Post

I have been looking around for an xt32 receiver for a while and some have reported similar findings - in the Onkyo 818 thread some thought it could be a bad audyssey mic. Not sure if that was actually the cause but something that was mentioned - lack of bass after calibration. I bet you would get quite a few responses if you started a thread regarding xt32 and lack of bass or something similar.

Well, there are a few things going on here:

1. First, if you are NOT using Dynamic EQ, then the bass is going to sound low after calibrating with Audyssey. Not only does MultEQ equalize the speakers to "flat" response, it calibrates them to be level matched. That's fine of course, but the problem is that people don't listen at reference volume. So at "normal" listening volumes, because of the way our hearing works, the bass is going to sound light on a calibrated system without the loudness correction of Dynamic EQ helping to restore the tonal balance.

2. Second, a lot of the "missing bass" complaints with MultEQ calibrates systems is because the user had grown used to some boomy room modes that made things sound "full" in the mid-bass frequencies. When these "lumps" are smoothed out, it may sound like the bass has gone missing, but it's really just flat for the first time.

Now, all that being said.... with johnb, it sounds like movies sound great, so I doubt there is some deeper "global" problem with missing bass. It's just about optimizing things for 2ch listening.

@ Johnb -- If you aren't aware there is a dedicated 2CH DIRECT/STEREO menu in your 4311 that allows you to configure totally separate bass management and levels for 2ch listening without tampering with the multich settings.

1. In the GUI, go to Manual Setup > Audio Setup > 2Ch Direct/Stereo

2. Set the mode to "Custom" in this menu. This dissociates the 2ch settings from the multich settings that are configured in the standard Speaker Setup menus. If you ever need to reset things, toggling back to "Basic" will restore the 2ch settings back to match the multich settings.

3. With the mode set to "Custom", the separate 2ch settings for bass management, distance, and level will become active. You obviously don't need to change the distance (this is used when you have a separate pair of "B" speakers that are used for 2ch listening that aren't the same speakers as your "A" speakers for multich) but the level tweaks may be useful. Note that there is no subwoofer level setting, but you can make the sub "hotter" relatively by *lowering* the level of the FR/FL main speakers. For example, turning down the FR/FL speakers by 3dB in 2ch mode will make the sub 3dB "hot" relatively.

4. Since you mention you don't want to cut off the bass from the V2.2's, but just use the sub to "fill out", set the speakers to LARGE in this menu with sub set to ON and LFE+MAIN. This activates double bass, which means the V2.2's will still get a full range signal but the subwoofer will now get a copy of that signal below the specified crossover value.

5. Next, experiment with the crossover number. You can set it low (40-60Hz) such that the sub just picks up where the speakers are naturally rolling off, basically "filling out" the bottom. You might also try setting it a bit higher (80-100Hz) such that the sub is not only picking up where the speakers roll off, but also providing some double emphasis in that mid-bass region (creating a sort of "house curve" effect) which may make the bass sound even more full and pleasing.

So give that a shot, with Audyssey XT32 engaged and Dynamic EQ set to ON and the Reference Level Offset trimmed down to 10 or 15dB so it's not boosting too much.
post #47384 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Lol, I have been told that quite often. Luckily for me then, that my wife finds Bulldogs adorable smile.gif

Very nice dogs you have there. We have two, which we find a handful at times, I can only imagine three.
My original pack was 5 shpeherds, but they have all passed along now. My new pack is made up of a bunch of youngsters.
We bring in rescues also. Had 8 shepherds at my house for awhile one time. That was a handfull, but fun. I think bulldogs are awsome dogs also.
They just have this look and swagger about them.smile.gif
post #47385 of 51596
So batpig... Do you use Audyssey Dynamic EQ yourself? I'm still debating whether turning it off and boosting bass a bit, so that when I raise the volume, the effects scales up, or leaving it on. It looks to me as if D. EQ provides a very strong boost in bass at lower volumes, and on a quite large swath of the spectrum (not only, say, below 50 Hz). I tried turning DynamicEQ off and compensating with a low-pass shelf filter with a +7dB amplitude and a cutoff at 40 Hz, and it was nowhere sufficient to provide something likw DynamicEQ at moderate volumes (below -20 dB from ref).

On one hand, I don't dislike the effect at low volume. On the other hand, it complicates EQing the sub on top of Audyssey EQ as with DynamicEQ on, I don't feel there's a need to boost the sub, but with DynamicEQ either off, or on at higher volumes, I feel like a bit more bass would help.
post #47386 of 51596
I ran into the same problem as John is having. Bass sounded great with movies, but 2 channel not impressed so I have been
just listening without a sub. Even though Im running pioneer avr there is somethings in which batpig mentioned above that I can
look at with my avr.
post #47387 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

So batpig... Do you use Audyssey Dynamic EQ yourself?

Yes, I use Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume 100% of the time. Remember I live in a townhouse with shared walls, otherwise I might not use Dynamic Volume all the time, but I find Dynamic EQ indispensable for keeping the bass and surround bubble rich and enveloping at moderate volumes.

Quote:
I'm still debating whether turning it off and boosting bass a bit, so that when I raise the volume, the effects scales up, or leaving it on. It looks to me as if D. EQ provides a very strong boost in bass at lower volumes, and on a quite large swath of the spectrum (not only, say, below 50 Hz). I tried turning DynamicEQ off and compensating with a low-pass shelf filter with a +7dB amplitude and a cutoff at 40 Hz, and it was nowhere sufficient to provide something likw DynamicEQ at moderate volumes (below -20 dB from ref).

The problem with "static" solutions is that they don't adapt as the volume changes. If you set the bass by ear so it sounds good at a specific volume level, it will either be too soft or too loud when you change the volume. That's the major advantage of a fully dynamic loudness compensation system.

Within that dynamic structure, you can "tune" it to your preference (either globally by adjusting the sub level, or per input by messing with the Ref Level Offset). But the benefit is that you still maintain that dynamic compensation that adjusts based on the volume. In theory, Dynamic EQ should maintain the same perceptual tonal balance at all volume levels, so once you set the bass to a "pleasing" level it will stay the same whether you crank up the volume or turn it down.

And you are correct that Dynamic EQ is not just operating on very low frequencies (e.g. below 50Hz). It operates on pretty much the entire frequency range -- it's also worth mentioning that Dynamic EQ is also boosting the high frequencies, to maintain clarity at lower volumes. The bass boost is the more viscerally obvious part but when you look at equal loudness curves the human ear is most sensitive the middle frequencies -- you lose both the lows AND the highs at softer volumes.

People have posted measurements of Dynamic EQ's effective equal loudness curves in the Audyssey thread, I'll see if I can dig up a graph.
post #47388 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

I'm jealous. You guys have some really nice systems, and are consistantly upgrading. I have two girls in college and have trouble just scraping up the money for anything halfway decent. And then a tough time finding the time to actually enjoy it.

I guess I should have been born rich instead of handsome. rolleyes.gif

I hate to say it...but many of us don't really 'need' to upgrade as much as we have been!
Let me just put it this way -- I'm glad I never got into drugs or anything...because all my different speakers sure have been 'gateways' up to gradually more & more expensive stuff!
The great thing about Energy is that, pretty much no matter what, it seems like you're getting a great amount of value for your money. Realistically, if I had just stuck with the speakers I had 2 or even 3 sets back...I'd still have had amazing quality! The steps up have been incrementally better, but it doesn't mean that you're missing out with what you already have. smile.gif
And just think though -- your girls are in college...at least they're not in, say, kindergarten! You'll have gradually more time to enjoy your gear as time goes on...at least I would think so. smile.gif
post #47389 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Well, there are a few things going on here:

1. First, if you are NOT using Dynamic EQ, then the bass is going to sound low after calibrating with Audyssey. Not only does MultEQ equalize the speakers to "flat" response, it calibrates them to be level matched. That's fine of course, but the problem is that people don't listen at reference volume. So at "normal" listening volumes, because of the way our hearing works, the bass is going to sound light on a calibrated system without the loudness correction of Dynamic EQ helping to restore the tonal balance.

2. Second, a lot of the "missing bass" complaints with MultEQ calibrates systems is because the user had grown used to some boomy room modes that made things sound "full" in the mid-bass frequencies. When these "lumps" are smoothed out, it may sound like the bass has gone missing, but it's really just flat for the first time.

Now, all that being said.... with johnb, it sounds like movies sound great, so I doubt there is some deeper "global" problem with missing bass. It's just about optimizing things for 2ch listening.

@ Johnb -- If you aren't aware there is a dedicated 2CH DIRECT/STEREO menu in your 4311 that allows you to configure totally separate bass management and levels for 2ch listening without tampering with the multich settings.

1. In the GUI, go to Manual Setup > Audio Setup > 2Ch Direct/Stereo

2. Set the mode to "Custom" in this menu. This dissociates the 2ch settings from the multich settings that are configured in the standard Speaker Setup menus. If you ever need to reset things, toggling back to "Basic" will restore the 2ch settings back to match the multich settings.

3. With the mode set to "Custom", the separate 2ch settings for bass management, distance, and level will become active. You obviously don't need to change the distance (this is used when you have a separate pair of "B" speakers that are used for 2ch listening that aren't the same speakers as your "A" speakers for multich) but the level tweaks may be useful. Note that there is no subwoofer level setting, but you can make the sub "hotter" relatively by *lowering* the level of the FR/FL main speakers. For example, turning down the FR/FL speakers by 3dB in 2ch mode will make the sub 3dB "hot" relatively.

4. Since you mention you don't want to cut off the bass from the V2.2's, but just use the sub to "fill out", set the speakers to LARGE in this menu with sub set to ON and LFE+MAIN. This activates double bass, which means the V2.2's will still get a full range signal but the subwoofer will now get a copy of that signal below the specified crossover value.

5. Next, experiment with the crossover number. You can set it low (40-60Hz) such that the sub just picks up where the speakers are naturally rolling off, basically "filling out" the bottom. You might also try setting it a bit higher (80-100Hz) such that the sub is not only picking up where the speakers roll off, but also providing some double emphasis in that mid-bass region (creating a sort of "house curve" effect) which may make the bass sound even more full and pleasing.

So give that a shot, with Audyssey XT32 engaged and Dynamic EQ set to ON and the Reference Level Offset trimmed down to 10 or 15dB so it's not boosting too much.

Lots of good things to try there Batpig, thank you! I'm going to print out your post and sit down later on & try everything out. wink.gif
post #47390 of 51596
Also, worst case scenario, if you don't like listening to Stereo with Audyssey engaged, and you end up sticking with DIRECT mode, you can use this menu to configure the sub to be active (by activating LFE+MAIN) in DIRECT mode to enhance the bass without impacting the standard multich setup.
post #47391 of 51596
Quick iPhone snap of the current setup with the 3 x RVS front soundstage.

post #47392 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fears4Ears View Post

ssthrd:

Is there any way you can post pics of your side walls, or a description?. If you are happy with your V-Mini's then no problem. The V-S Surrounds have the same tweeter timber as your V-Mini's so you can be the judge if you find them different/distracting. The surrounds don't need to match perfectly and lots of folks use the V-S Surrounds with RC-70's. Their purpose is to diffuse the sound to make it less obvious just where the sound is coming from. They are meant to replicate the multi-surround speakers used in theaters. The V-S surrounds have a control to where you can also use them just like your V-Mini's, but they will have much deeper response because of the larger woofers. This would make them more suited for multi-channel music. You'll want to mount them directly to the side of your listening position and a coupla feet above ear level, so if mounting them there will be a problem then maybe just stick with your V-mini's. The Mini's are just a bit too small for surround and especially multi-channel music.

Sorry for the late reply--been busy. Sure hope I did this right.........


The pics are not great quality, but hopefully you can decifer where things are. I would imagine that a purist would be horrified at my setup, but I don't have too many choices. The fronts are in a corner for obvious reasons, the right surround is in the upper right of the pic, the left surround is in the upper left of the pic, and the CC-10 is on the to shelf to the rear. When i get the sub, it will probably go behind the TV in the corner.

The room is 15 x 24 x 8, and as you can see, it is a busy place. My listening chair is 12 feet diagonally from the TV and perpendicular to the plane of the fronts.

I chose the V-mini because of it's size given it's location for the right surround on an 8" wide shelf which is open to the kitchen and dining area. for the other locations except the rear, size is less of an issue. the whole left side of the room is glass which is a real pain, but that's what I got!

I think I can get away with the V-Mini's in the back, and maybe the V-S surrounds in place of the minis.
Later.....just looked up the V-S at Future Shop--600 bucks a pop! Maybe I can find something used.......

Thanks for your help.
post #47393 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Quick iPhone snap of the current setup with the 3 x RVS front soundstage.


Looks like they blend quite nicely with the furniture, and it is fascinating to see them as a RCL setup since I only have one for a center!
How is the WAF on them thus far; she still in strong favor of the RC's?
post #47394 of 51596
^^^^nice batpig I'm planning to go back to soft domes, but I don't found the way to sell my current setup and start all over again.
post #47395 of 51596
Quote:
How is the WAF on them thus far; she still in strong favor of the RC's?

Wife's commentary when I asked her if she's getting used to the new speakers: "They are too tall and black and shiny. The other speakers were smaller and wood colored."

It's a funny position to be in, me trying to "downgrade" to clear a few hundred bucks to help pay some bills, and the wife disapproving! tongue.gif We'll see that happens...
post #47396 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Quick iPhone snap of the current setup with the 3 x RVS front soundstage.


That setup looks good, how are you liking the sound from those?
post #47397 of 51596
Honestly, they sound pretty awesome. I haven't gotten to give them a real "workout" because of my living situation (townhouse, shared walls, wife, 2-year-old daughter, etc) and I also haven't had a chance to hook up the RC-10's for an A/B test, but they sound really good. Just another notch in the belt for the terrific value proposition of older, used Energy speakers. I really like the seamless blend across the front soundstage from having all three identical speakers (not that I ever noticed much of an issue with the RC-10 / RC-LCR setup) and they are very well built, good looking speakers IMO. Also, I haven't noticed any issues with them not blending well with the RC-Mini's I am using for surrounds.

I do think the RC-LCR is a better overall center speaker -- no real surprise, given that it's a ~10 year newer design with a full 3-way configuration. The RC-LCR probably has a little more clarity and sounds maybe a touch more "natural" with voices, but again I haven't done a direct A/B so this is based on memory. Also, one mitigating factor is that I plug the ports on the RC-LCR, whereas the smaller ports on the RVS are still open (no custom plugs were made, so if I did plug them I'd have to come up with something). As a result, the center ended up with a 40Hz crossover after running Audyssey, while the fronts ended up at 60Hz (same as the RC-10's). The unplugged RC-LCR comes in at 40Hz also; with the plugs in, it gets a crossover of 80-90Hz. So that reduction in the bass for the RC-LCR (which is needed to eliminate the "chestiness" when placed fairly close to the wall behind it) probably contributes to the increased clarity.

I've done some brief 2ch listening when I had some occasional moments of free time alone in the house. The RVS in stereo mode are able to play very loud without any hint of effort, and sound very smooth with their soft dome tweeter. No fatigue at all, but still quite detailed. They probably outperform the RC-10's in terms of throwing a wider soundstage. The RC-10's (again going by memory at this point) probably sound a bit more refined and maybe more detailed and airy (again, probably due to the tweeter difference). The RVS, with their much greater cabinet volume and dual woofers, have a "meatier" sound in 2ch stereo, very full bodied, a little "thicker" than the RC-10's.

Hopefully at some point soon I will get to give them a better workout with a good movie soundtrack test at loud volumes.

Bottom line... I could live with these very happily for a long time. They (along with the "even number" Connoisseurs) represent a really amazing value on the used market if you can find them for a great price. For the price I paid it would probably be impossible to find anything close to this quality as an LCR setup.
post #47398 of 51596
Hi guys im very happy that finally I aleeady have RC LCR with my RC 70's.also just got it with a very good price and its brand new in the box. He is the owner of the one selling all his energy gears that I posted.a very nice guy. Thanks a lot again sir. And guess what he said he is also a member on this energy thread I think his nick is gateway something like that. He not really comes on these site now he said his busy. But he may check it out later.

post #47399 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post

Hi guys im very happy that finally I aleeady have RC LCR with my RC 70's.also just got it with a very good price and its brand new in the box. He is the owner of the one selling all his energy gears that I posted.a very nice guy. Thanks a lot again sir. And guess what he said he is also a member on this energy thread I think his nick is gateway something like that. He not really comes on these site now he said his busy. But he may check it out later.


Congrats! let us know if you notice much difference from the v5.2. after proper break in , of course.


Don't make me have to get one now! lol
post #47400 of 51596
Quote:
Originally Posted by eah9 View Post

Congrats! let us know if you notice much difference from the v5.2. after proper break in , of course.


Don't make me have to get one now! lol

I've probably said it already earlier in this thread but I had the V5.2C before I got the RC-LCR. I actually preferred the V5.2C with the RC-70's over the RC-LCR. Dialogue was much clearer/crisper and I didn't mind that they weren't timbre matched.

To me, they sounded like just an overall better speaker. Wish I could afford the V6.3's but they're over three times as expensive over here in Canada. All that being said, the RC-70/RC-LCR's still sound amazing so as not to overstate the performance of the Veritas.
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