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Energy Owners Thread - Page 202

post #6031 of 51590
I finally got a chance to check out a C-C100 and C-C50 in person. The C-C100 is a MUCH bigger speaker. Almost 20" wide and 7" tall. It about the same size as the Energy RC-LCR speaker.

The C-C50 and C-C100 sound almost the same but the C-100 sounds fuller due to the bigger mid-bass drivers. It also sounded a little clearer which I can't quite figure out since they share the same 1" tweeter. Maybe the C-C50 wasn't fully broken in yet.

If you have room, definitely get the C-C100 with your C-100 or tower speakers. Remember that center is big though.

I you don't have the space, you'll still be satisfied with the much smaller C-C50.
post #6032 of 51590
Quick question:
Went to MonoPrice to buy Banana Plugs, but their description specifies 18 to 22 AWG wire. Which (open or closed type) works best with 16 AWG wire?

Thanks,

Steve B.
post #6033 of 51590
I promised some impressions of the RC-LCR vs RC-70. I've been running 3 RC-LCRs across the front in my home theater for going on 2 years. I compared the LCRs with the RC-70s in a local American showroom recently and liked what I heard. My room, though, is quite small, so I wanted to hear what the 2 speakers would sound like here (and see if I could live with the extra size, which is substantial).

The listening environment: small 11x17x8 room, fairly heavy carpeting. Walls and ceiling are not professionally treated acoustically, but I've added panels throughout. The room is not recording studio quiet, but it is far from alive.

The equipment: Denon 3808CI receiver being fed by the typical array of home theater gear: Blu-ray, HD-DVD, Dish 622, HTPCs, Sharp XV-Z20000 projector - all HDMI. I conducted all the A/B with Denon/Audyssey EQ defeated.

The audio: Haydn Horn Concerto No. 1 in D Major; Kevin Murphy, American Anthem, Brother, Can You Spare a Dime?; Mozart Piano Sonata No. 11 in A Major (Stadler); Simon and Garfunkel Voices of Old People and The Sound of Silence; background music from Chuck - the best TV show you're not watching; theme from Bones; whatever MP3s struck me; opening chase scene from The Transporter; the Central Park concert at the end of August Rush; theme music from a Max-5 airing of Jurassic Park; the THX sound clip from Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

The difference between what I heard in the showroom and what I hear at home tells me that the 70s like big spaces. They really shined in the huge American showroom and are capable of filling a large, large, large area. The LCRs, a much smaller speaker, are more at home in smaller confines, but they are capable of big sound. The difference in sound, overall, is less apparent in my smaller space than it was at American.

Perhaps the biggest surprise was the efficiency of the 70s. I had to run the 70s at 6db less than the LCRs in order to have them play at roughly the same volume level. Plus 1 for the 70s.

I expected the bigger 70s to have much more low-end kick than the LCRs, and they do, but the big surprise was how much more impact they had on the high end. That, to me, is even more impressive. This offers a more forward and revealing sound, though it was never unpleasantly bright or harsh.

I think the more defined upper range contributes to what I think is the biggest distinguishing factor between the 2 speakers - their separation. With the 70s, I could literally point to instruments in space - left, right, up, down. Throughout the frequency range, there was a crispness to the sound that the LCR couldn't quite match. For single instrument music, such as the Mozart piano sonata, or a single male vocal, like Kevin Murphy's beautiful American Anthem album, you would probably find lots of people who would favor the LCR. It's a very musical little speaker. For larger chamber and orchestral works, the edge clearly (to me, anyway) goes to the RC-70. Being able to point to a cello, or flute or violin, says how cleanly the speaker is handling the sound. I'd say that the LCR collapses the sound field, while the RC-70 opens it up. That sense of spaciousness is even more pronounced in a larger area (like the American showroom).

I tried both speakers with and without a sub. The 70 does go deeper, but my little Orbs really complemented both. I wouldn't want to run either one without a sub, but you certainly could run the 70 without one if you needed to. Pairing the 70 with a sub allowed it to breathe even more freely. It was great fun to hear the opening chase scene from The Transporter with the 70s and the Orb. The wide-open sound field of the 70s allowed me to hear things I'd never heard before, and everything was crisper. I think I said after hearing the speakers in the showroom that I believed I'd like them more for music. I have to amend that by saying that, if anything, they enhance movies even more than music.

The movie August Rush is a small film that a lot of people probably missed, but I love how it blends acoustic guitar, large orchestral pieces and rock in an unusual mix. The concert in Central Park at the end of the film really allows the 70s to show off their substantial range. They soar.

Finally, the THX clip from Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (just before the movie starts) is a real test for dynamic range. The highs sparkle across all the speakers in a surround system and the lows will make you think your speakers are about to throw up their lungs. Be prepared to have your chest thumped and your toes tickled. I have to say that both the LCR and the 70 did very well with this clip.

I said to myself the other day when I went into the American that I just wanted to listen, and I had no intention of buying the 70s. When I found out I could get a pretty good deal, it became more tempting. When I got them home and listened to some music, I thought it was a toss up, until I got to the bigger stuff. Going from solo vocal and piano to full orchestral works showed a bigger difference. Movie sound tracks also opened up. (That's improved even more, by the way, since the Audyssey calibration.)

The 70s are huge compared to the LCRs, so I had to make a compromise in my small room. A couple of the side seats now have a sliver of the screen obstructed by the right front speaker. That's why I went with the LCRs in the first place. I can live with the compromise, though, and I can adjust one of the seats to compensate. Even though the towers are really big for my small space, they aren't as intrusive as I was afraid they would be. They're the beautiful rosenut finish and they blend in with the very subdued lighting of my home theater room. The only time the size really calls out is when I'm coming in from the other room. It feels as though I'm approaching the black obelisk in 2001: A Space Odyssey. From any other point of view, they aren't bad.

Long story short, I'm almost certainly going to keep them. Had I not been able to make them work in my space, I'd have lived happily with the LCRs for a long time. I still think it's a great speaker. Of course, it's going to be the center in this new configuration.
post #6034 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swive View Post

Quick question:
Went to MonoPrice to buy Banana Plugs, but their description specifies 18 to 22 AWG wire. Which (open or closed type) works best with 16 AWG wire?

Thanks,

Steve B.

the closed screw type should have no problem with 16 AWG.
post #6035 of 51590
Nice review Joseph, thanks!

Quote:


I think the more defined upper range contributes to what I think is the biggest distinguishing factor between the 2 speakers – their separation. With the 70s, I could literally point to instruments in space – left, right, up, down. Throughout the frequency range, there was a crispness to the sound that the LCR couldn’t quite match.

Out of curiosity, how much of that do you think has to do with the tweeter height? The RC-70, being a true vertical speaker, has the drivers arrayed such that the tweeter is higher up by ear level. I imagine on a speaker stand the RC-LCR - with the WMTMW design - would end up with the tweeter being over a foot lower. Also, being a center speaker by nature with that driver arrangement you would expect it not to have as good of overall dispersion.

Anyway, enjoy your new toy!! Let us know how they sound post-Audyssey as well.
post #6036 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swive View Post

Quick question:
Went to MonoPrice to buy Banana Plugs, but their description specifies 18 to 22 AWG wire. Which (open or closed type) works best with 16 AWG wire?

Thanks,

Steve B.

Not sure what plugs you're looking at but these say they accept 18-12ga wire. I've used these plugs with 12, 14 and 16ga wire with no problems.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
post #6037 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Nice review Joseph, thanks!



Out of curiosity, how much of that do you think has to do with the tweeter height? The RC-70, being a true vertical speaker, has the drivers arrayed such that the tweeter is higher up by ear level. I imagine on a speaker stand the RC-LCR - with the WMTMW design - would end up with the tweeter being over a foot lower. Also, being a center speaker by nature with that driver arrangement you would expect it not to have as good of overall dispersion.

Anyway, enjoy your new toy!! Let us know how they sound post-Audyssey as well.

It occurred to me that tweeter height would make a difference in the sound. The reason I know the majority of what I was hearing was not related to the tweeter height is that I had the same impression in the American showroom. There, the LCRs were on shelves, higher up than the 70s on the floor.

In my home theater, the LCRs are all just below the screen, and my feet (when I recline) are about tweeter height. Not ideal. The tweeters in the 70s are almost exactly ear level and not blocked at all when I'm seated. I also moved them about a foot further away from the screen wall than the LCRs were - much better positioning. I'm sure that plays into their sounding better in my room, but the overall impression was the same in both places. I've used these same CD tracks for years to audition speakers.
post #6038 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You can get an RC mini center to save cash, or jump TODAY on one of the RC-LCR refurbs from Klipsch on ebay, which you can probably snag for around $250-ish.

I got one of the rosenut RC-LCR's for $250 today and the other rosenut went for $197 so they got an even better deal on it. Let's hope they keep putting RC stuff out on Ebay because at these prices they are practically giving them away.
post #6039 of 51590
that is just an awesome deal, congrats! the $15 shipping is pretty sweet as well.
post #6040 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottns View Post

After much debate with myself I finally ordered some Energy speakers. I was going to get the Take Classic but with all the clearance prices going on I got this setup instead for a lot less money. And it still passed the WAF test!

4 - C-50
1 - C-C50
1 - ESW 8

Shipped for $318. I got my Denon 1909 and it's just been sitting there. Can't wait. I have not had surround since I moved into my new house (2.5 years ago!)

This is the exact same set-up I have sitting in boxes in my living room (well, I have the Denon 789, but they're the same receiver essentially). I won't be able to have it up and running for another month probably though.

You'll have to let me know how it all sounds if you beat me to having it all hooked up!
post #6041 of 51590
Ya, not sure. I have to run wires down the wall and across the basement and then up again and I'll probably have to build a shelf on the wall for the center channel so it can sit above the TV so it's going to be a week or 2 for me at least.
post #6042 of 51590
Hey batpig, would a RC-10/RC-LCR combo be better for movies and games than the C-500/C-C100 combo if I could get it? I do have a sub. Even the CB-20s have a 6" driver, the RC-10 has a 5.5".
post #6043 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1080pee View Post

Hey batpig, would a RC-10/RC-LCR combo be better for movies and games than the C-500/C-C100 combo if I could get it? I do have a sub. Even the CB-20s have a 6" driver, the RC-10 has a 5.5".

Dont worry about the woofer size. The design and construction are more important. That RC-10 would sound fuller and more detail than the CB-20s.

Heck look at the Ascend Sierra-1, they are 5.5" but produce more bass than any bookselves.
post #6044 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1080pee View Post

Hey batpig, would a RC-10/RC-LCR combo be better for movies and games than the C-500/C-C100 combo if I could get it? I do have a sub. Even the CB-20s have a 6" driver, the RC-10 has a 5.5".

I think 9 out of 10 people here on this forum would pick the RC-10/RC-LCR combo if comparing the two you listed.
post #6045 of 51590
are the c300 a big enough step up over the c100 bookshelfs to warrant double the price. or will i be fine with the bookshelfs. this is for my living room thats about 12x12 and to be used as fronts
post #6046 of 51590
do these wall mounts work well with the c-series? ive read were bookshelf speakers shouldnt be mounted close to the wall, there should be some space behind the speaker. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATMAC
post #6047 of 51590
yes those are the specific mounts intended for the Energy speakers, as mentioned many a time in this thread. you may want to use the port plug since they will be fairly close to the wall.
post #6048 of 51590
check it out... good deal on this energy setup?

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._-1__0_0_0_-1/
post #6049 of 51590
dude, seriously? That deal, and other C-Series closeout deals, is literally 90% of what has been discussed on this thread for the past three months.

it should be REQUIRED that anyone who is about to post a question first read the last 10-20 pages of a thread before actually posting.
post #6050 of 51590
First of all, I just would like say I'm sorry for the noobness of my question but I am in the dark when it comes setting up my bass frequencies. This is my setup:

My room size is 19'x13' ( I normally sit at the far rear of the room)

Receiver" Onkyo TX-SR606

Speakers: 5.1 setup with Energy Take Sat Bookshelf speakers, and an Energy S8.3 Subwoofer.(the subwoofer is setup to the far right of the receiver, and right of the front right speaker.

I used the automatic setup feature(using the microphone), and it all went well. I have my subwoofer setup with the crossover to 110hz, the phase control setup to 0 degrees. Now while everything sounds fine, I wanted to know if there was anything I could do to fine tune it.

Thank you in advance for any tips or links.
post #6051 of 51590
Wow that was a great review. Thanks taking the time to work on that review Joe. Always like to see reviews that emulate acoustical problems that we all deal with.
post #6052 of 51590
I originally addressed this question to batpig. He never answered it so I'll throw it out to anyone to respond.

I have two pair of old Sansui speakers. One set is the SP7500X 16.5" woofer, 8" midrange, 2-2" tweeters, and a horn tweeter. The other set is SPX7700 16.5" woofer, 4" midrange, 2-2" tweeters, and a horn tweeter. They are adjustable for tonal quality. I believe they have three different settings. These are very nice sounding speakers for music. I've used them for years. They have never been abused so they are still in excellent condition. I'm sure there are better speakers out there but I have these and I have no intention of getting rid of them.

I can vibrate the wife right out of the living room above with these things. I just don't know how well they will work in a surround system? I'll still keep them around for music listening since I have the room and I doubt anything I would buy for the surround system is going to make me want to replace them, at least for music listening? Obviously I'd like to integrate these with with whatever setup I buy just to keep it simpler.

I have a rather large room in the basement that I was considering in the future turning into a theater room. The room is 20' X 24' fully carpeted and wood paneled walls with a drop ceiling with the light weight ceiling tiles.

Ok so my question is would these speakers, they are late 60's early 70's technology, work as surrounds for a room this size? Or are they inappropriate because they are full range? Would I need a sub given the amount of air I can move with the 4-16.5" woofers in a setup like this? I'm guessing I would need quite the Amp to run a setup like this? Any suggestions as to wattage required? I like the clean sound of the Energy speakers. I bought 4 of the C-100's Woot was selling. I don't know how the Sansui's will sound if I matched these with a center channel and sub from Energy? Assuming I even need a sub?

Thanks,

Bill
post #6053 of 51590
if I was going to use the giant speaker I wouldn't use them as surrounds, I would use them as the mains. since you have the 4 C-100's sitting there, maybe try hooking them up as surrounds and use the big boys as fronts and see how it sounds? Unfortunately, with old speakers, it's basically going to be trial-and-error to find a sonic match. Thankfully the Energy's are fairly neutral.

Honestly, I'm not sure anyone will be able to answer your questions, you are probably just going to have to try it yourself and see how they sound. But if they work out, you probably don't need a sub. It's somewhat of a more general question for a unique situation, but you may have more success posting in the general speaker forum as there may be someone else with old Sansui's integrated into a modern HT setup.

Have you considered just keeping them for 2-channel music and having a separate 5.1 setup? I know that, for example, Denon receivers have an option where you can hook up "B" speakers for 2-channel music and when you switch the receiver into "STEREO" mode it automatically shuts off the 5.1 speakers and switches to the "B" speakers for 2-channel listening.
post #6054 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranky69 View Post

First of all, I just would like say I'm sorry for the noobness of my question but I am in the dark when it comes setting up my bass frequencies. This is my setup:

My room size is 19'x13' ( I normally sit at the far rear of the room)

Receiver" Onkyo TX-SR606

Speakers: 5.1 setup with Energy Take Sat Bookshelf speakers, and an Energy S8.3 Subwoofer.(the subwoofer is setup to the far right of the receiver, and right of the front right speaker.

I used the automatic setup feature(using the microphone), and it all went well. I have my subwoofer setup with the crossover to 110hz, the phase control setup to 0 degrees. Now while everything sounds fine, I wanted to know if there was anything I could do to fine tune it.

Thank you in advance for any tips or links.

not a noobish question at all, bass management can be tricky to get right.

you should search for "606" and "subwoofer" or stuff like that, I gave a little mini-dissertation a few days back on how to set up the 606 properly for someone else.

basically, this is the procedure:

1. set all speakers with a crossover (110Hz sounds fine for the Take SAT's) which automatically makes them "small"
2. turn up the crossover dial on the subwoofer all the way, you don't want the low-pass filter in the subwoofer interfering with the digital bass management in the receiver. also set the phase to "0"
3. run audyssey to balance all the levels/distances

At that point, you have done pretty much all you can do. If you want to "tweak" you can experiment with the phase dial and volume knob on the sub, as well as different crossovers (like 100 or 120) to see if you can create a better/smoother "blend" between sub and sats, but it basically sounds like you have it set up right.
post #6055 of 51590
Thanks for the quick response.
post #6056 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantrell View Post

I got one of the rosenut RC-LCR's for $250 today and the other rosenut went for $197 so they got an even better deal on it. Let's hope they keep putting RC stuff out on Ebay because at these prices they are practically giving them away.

Well I got the other rosenuts and can't wait to use the new center. Didn't know I was bidding against a fellow AVS member. I dropped out at the $240 mark or so on the first one. And for a while the black ones were pretty low.
post #6057 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyvu View Post

Well I got the other rosenuts and can't wait to use the new center. Didn't know I was bidding against a fellow AVS member. I dropped out at the $240 mark or so on the first one. And for a while the black ones were pretty low.

I figured they were going for around $250 so my limit was around there. I couldn't believe the second one went for $197! You got quite a deal on that one. Congrats! I can't wait to get mine hooked up. I have an rc-mini center currently so I am excited to hear the difference between the two.
post #6058 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The ESW-8 is a fine little sub and will be adequate, especially for a small room, but it is not a "real" sub for true HT use in a medium or larger room. If you are willing to spend a little extra, the Premier Acoustic PA-120 sub is a HUGE step up from the ESW-8 for only $230 shipped off ebay. There is a very significant difference, it will really take the home theater experience to another level.

Is this from experience Batpig? I will be making the upgrade this week (120 enroute). Anyone else make this change? What can I expect to be different? Hopefully not just the volume levels...
post #6059 of 51590
Quote:


What can I expect to be different? Hopefully not just the volume levels...

8" vs 12"? The PA-120 better go a whole lot deeper than the little Energy.
post #6060 of 51590
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPT View Post

Is this from experience Batpig? I will be making the upgrade this week (120 enroute). Anyone else make this change? What can I expect to be different? Hopefully not just the volume levels...

The bass will be much more full, and deeper as well.
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