Energy Owners Thread - Page 211

I happen to think the awkward room position is more of an issue here than C-50 vs. C-100. we all have compromises of course and you do the best you can!

A couple of things you can do:

1. even if you aren't running Audyssey yet, have you at least set the speaker distance and balanced the channel levels manually? even if by ear?

2. if you can grab some little rubber bumpers to put under the speakers, try and angle that center channel up slightly so the tweeter is pointing more at ear level. bigger bumpers on the front than the back will angle it up a bit and help.

3. get the center channel as far forward as it can go, being stuck in a wooden cavity like that will obviously affect the acoustics and it is typically recommended that you don't want the front face of the speaker recessed from the front edge of the shelf.

4. are the L/R speakers much further back than the center? Can't tell from the photo but they look sort of pushed back against the wall.

So play with position a little bit, get the center channel tilted up slightly and make sure it's at the front edge of the shelf, move the L/R up a couple of inches, then run Audyssey (or at the minimum adjust the channel levels by ear with the test tones).

K I will try that batpig.

Its mostly the bass management, its not working well after Audyssey. The settings used with the C-500 had the bass at -3 db and that still dominated the room, it blended really well with the RC-10s. After Auyd, im at 0 db and its still not as good. Anymore and it becomes boomy. Also I noticed using those bumpers (on a glass shelf) doesnt help the sound. I took them off again and they sound better.

If I were to describe the sound it would be more "echoey" now. I didnt mean the guy scammed me but I think he was lying about the break in period, as in, he never used them that long. Maybe they were stolen I dont know, but even the grille had NO dust. So maybe I overplayed them too soon but I think its more about the Audyssey at this point. I'll try your recommendations.

I gotta be honest -- you are ALL over the place right now. glass shelves, rubber bumpers, Audyssey, break-in... there are so many variables and it's like you're grasping at straws for explanations.

first off, "bass management" is about the crossover frequency and your receiver handing off to the subwoofer. it sounds like you are confusing the term with merely the level of the bass? I have no idea what you mean when you say the "bass management" was at -3 before with the C-500's and 0dB now with RC-10's, that doesn't make any sense.

second, you are WAY overrating the "break in" concept and how much effect it has on the sound. it's not like you could play some speakers that only had a few hours on them and they would just start to sound horrible right away because you accidentally didn't do the right thing. If you broke them, you broke them, they would sound terrible and distorted, but you are simultaneously trying to judge whether the "break in" did something to the speakers while AT THE SAME TIME moving them up on glass shelves and turning on Audyssey!! too many variables!

keep it simple -- that's why I suggested you disengage the processing in the receiver, turn off the sub, and put it in DIRECT mode. that way there is no tone control, no EQ, and no bass management, just two-channel music played as two-channel with no processing.

better yet, if you have extra speaker wire hook up one set as the "A" speakers and the other as "B" (do you still have the C-500's or did you return them? what do you have currently?). then put them in similar positions and switch back and forth for direct A/B comparison. get an impression.... and then swap positions, and try some more A/B's and see if your impressions are the same. I think you will find that position makes a big difference, and hopefully you can get a better sense of the setup.

Yes, I plan to read at least 100 pages back to see ENERGY vs MA comparison. and to lear more about energy speakers.

So, MA RS6 should be compared with RC30 and MA RS8 with RC50, is this correct?
What about RC70, is there direct opponent on MA side.

Lets say that I have enough money to buy RC70, do you still think that RC70 should not be used in my 10x13 room. Why?
I listen a lot of music so sub will not help me.

I saw HQ, high res. pictures on energy web site but speakers are only in black, I'm searching for cherry finish.

Can you post me a link to few online stores that sell energy?

Thanks

well if you aren't going to use a sub then the RC-70's might be worth it, I don't know. I haven't heard the RC-70's so I can't say, perhaps Joseph Clark can shed some more light on this since he has RC-70's in a smallish room.

I don't think they will sound BAD, they just might be overpowering/boomy in that space. I guess you could always use the port plugs if necessary. Do you have enough room to give them a foot or two of space out from the wall?

I don't think there is really an MA equivalent to the RC-70, I think at that price point they want people to step up to the gold series.

Here are some photos I found online, unfortunately it looks like Energy has taken down all the pics of non-black RC's

RC-30 in rosenut (more pics at Audio Advisor: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENRC30 )

RC-70 + RC-LCR setup from a forum user (also rosenut):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post14566209

The cherry finish is actually pretty dark, occasionally you find some photos online where it looks pretty light but that is wrong. Click on the photos provided by WestCoastD of his setup in this post and the one following it, he had the RC-30's + RC-LCR + RC-minis setup in cherry and took some close-ups so you can see the color of the finish:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...58#post8009558

Yikes, sorry about that. I dont have the C-500s anymore unfortunately. Anyway, like I said I will try out your recommendations.

As for the rubber bumpers, I have the speakers sitting on glass (wall unit). The back is kind of open if I tilt the speakers so its not really tight as you probably are imagining. I was just saying I like the sound of the speakers better without the rubber things, but its subtle. What exactly is the purpose of the those rubber bumpers?

I found these pics of the RC70s, the first is supposedly cherry but it looks like a different finish than the ones in the second pic. On the Energy website, the cherry model RC-LCR looks more like the first for what its worth.

no worries, I'm just trying to get a grasp of exactly what issues you are having so we can try to help! like I said, just a few too many things going on there....

do you still have the CB-20's?

the rubber bumpers serve two functions: 1) keep the bottom from getting scratched, and 2) provide some sonic "isolation" of the speaker from the surface it is sitting on.

are you SURE the rubber bumpers made the difference in the sound you are hearing? that's what I was getting at; it seems like you made a few changes and two of the "culprits" that you are considering -- improper break-in and/or the rubber bumpers -- are unlikely to make any big changes to the sound.

It's more likely that the combination of speaker position and receiver settings is the issue, which is why I suggested disabling Audyssey and running DIRECT to see how that sounds.... then we can work from there.

So what speakers do you have currently? It's hard to keep track

Those photos are totally off on the cherry finish, I believe they were early demo photos. We had a discussion about those photos about, oh, 120 pages back or so The RC-70's even have the wrong drivers in the second photo! (notice all three woofers are the same size!)

The rosenut finish in that photo is pretty accurate, however. For better looks at the cherry finish, check out the links to WestCoastD's photos from earlier in this thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...58#post8009558

Good thing the cherry looks like the darker model cause I got the Cherry RC-LCR and I didnt know which model was the more accurate finish. That would look much better in my room. (when it arrives).

I currently have just the RC-10s, I ditched the CBs and C-500s. I'll try and get a photo of the room later if that helps. The speakers are sitting pretty much exactly at ear height to tweeter.

I guess my biggest problem is just having the sub blend well with the RCs. Hopefully your tips can get me on the right track.

got it. I thought you really liked the CB's, did you end up thinking the RC-10's were better?

first things first, forget about the sub blending and lets see if we can get them to sound nice with 2-channel music, straight up.

also, what sub do you have?

Ugh, I didnt know what I thought to be honest lol. I like everything I heard for different reasons. The reason I initially chose the C500s over the CB20s was because I liked it more for movies and it had slightly better detail. I almost chose the CB20s cause the centre channel is really awesome, better than the C-C100. They also have a great soundstage.

But then I saw the RC-10s for even cheaper than the C500s so I bit. It was a blind buy cause the return policy on the towers were up and I couldnt audition the RCs in time. I think I still like the RCs, especially with the RC-LCR center, it should make a better combination than the other sets like you recommended.

Anyway, im going to turn off the processing and run direct, I guess i'll turn off the sub as well (Klipsch 10inch KS10 or something). I'll let you know if they sound good.

Thanks bat.

Well, they will be big for that small space, but I'm listening to a lot more music these days than before I got the 70s. They're extremely clean and efficient. I doubt you'd be disappointed, especially if you can get them away from the wall a foot or two. As much as I like the LCR, the RC-70 is an extremely satisfying speaker, especially for music.

I went over to my high-end-audiophile friend's house yesterday and listened to a few things. His main listening system was down for some changes, but he has three others. We listened in a couple of those to some classical music, and I came away appreciating the RC-70s even more. I don't think the 70s compare to his main listening area, but as far as I'm concerned, they are better speakers for music than either we listened in.

I had listened to some material in one of his rooms a few weeks ago, and I wasn't all that impressed. Since then, he added some acoustic treatment (makeshift carpeted panels in the corners where the speakers are located). They sounded like different speakers.

Since I added panels to my walls and ceiling (some 5 years ago), I've had much better sound. My 11x17 room is not what I'd call "dead," and the panels help tremendously to tame reflections and boominess. Plaster walls and hardwood floors certainly don't help sound.

Although I've only had the 70s for a short time, I've listened to music for many, many hours. They sound great for everything from classical to rock to jazz. I really like them.

Is it expensive to acoustically treat the room? I think I would be interested in doing that one day.

Some Energy clearance at FS.

I was just the FS in Whitby, ON. The had 2 pairs of open RC-10's for $299 and 3 in the box also for $299.

On top of that, they had 2 esw v8 subs, in the box, also for $299.

Sweet - very much the same thoughts I had regarding the price and most probable lack of availability in the future. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the change over. I'll be modifying my cabinet to fit this thing. Bye-bye DVD strorage section on the end. Then I can open up the middle section and slide the components on the left side over.

I'm excited about being able to nab this stuff as they phase them out. Ended up with (2) RC-30's, (1) RC-LCR, and (2) RC-10's for somewhere around $1200. Needless to say my Bose are up for sale and the transformation...nothing short of amazing.

It can be, but I did mine on the cheap. I didn't do any "analysis" of the room's sound characteristics, so don't ask me if it's "right." My goal was to tame the plaster walls, both in terms of reflected sound and light. Basically, what I did was to use 1"x2" poplar strips (notched and beveled), navy blue vellux blankets and fiberglass ceiling panels. I created a grid pattern with the poplar strips on the walls and ceiling. I glued pieces of the vellux blankets to 2'x4' (and sometimes 2'x2') fiberglass panels. I inserted the panels into the grid.

The look is unique, to say the least. I posted some photos a long time ago. They really didn't do the room justice, though. The navy blue looked much brighter in the photos, as did the brown/orange artwork. In my room's very subdued lighting, the navy blue almost appears black - it's that dark. The art, which I have highlighted with carefully placed spot lights, provides what I think is a great contrast to the dark panels.

Although the panels may not be scientifically measured for performance, they improved the sound dramatically. They also reduced reflected light on the screen. My room is not a batcave, but it's pretty close. Long strips of rope lights on a dimmer (and kept seriously dim) keep people from stumbling in the dark.

CB20 mini-PRE-view:

Ok as promised, i just got a pair of CB20s. I'm comparing them to my RC-30 btw.

Out of the box, they sound very forward, dynamic as opposed to my RC-30s. They do have very strong bass for bookshelves. However they're lack of details tremendously. The midrange is so thin. It feels as its got covered by a cloth. When i crank them up they sounded.... very muddy.

This is right out of the box, i'm breaking them in. I turn them facing each other and switch the polarity of one speaker ( pos to neg, etc). I will run them at low volumes for several days then move to moderate volume for a day.

I will get a pair of RC-10s soon for my computer. I will then compare them to the CB20s. As i recall, the RC10 sounds very similar to the RC30 (just lack abit of low bunch).

The CB20s would be more appreciated if they're for R&B and Hiphop i think.

More to come with some pics. (the finish on CB20s feels alot cheaper than than the RC).

I used audysey today on my onkyo 806. It set my c-300s, and c-c100 to full range, and my c-50 surrounds to 70Hz crossovers. I changed the c-300s, and c-c100 to 60Hz, and c-50s to 90Hz. I don't really like the way it sounds. I experimented with different crossovers, and they all sound to thin. The bass tends to blend better with the default. So I reran audyssey and left it alone. I'm pretty happy with that.

Well, I'm in the new house and giving the C-100s a better testing. I also have a new receiver (Denon 3808) to test with them as well. And, though I preferred the Take setup overall when paired with the AVR-2700, the AVR-3808 paired with the C-100s is definitely better. I haven't tested the Takes with the 3808 and do not plan to. I'm completely impressed with the C-100s and 3808 now.

I haven't ran Audyssey, yet. I want to finish my acoustic treatments first, but music and HT both sound fantastic. The only place I can still prefer the Takes is vocals. But, it's much closer now and the other advantages of the larger C-100s definitely win out. Can't wait to finish the treatments and run Audyssey!

A few days ago, I gave a review of the Energy RC Micro 5.1 HT speaker system. I am loving them for HT use , but after several days of use and giving them a real workout with music that I have heard hundreds (if not thousands) of times over 30+ years, I have found some "holes" in the sound output. I would like to get a pair of towers or bookcase-sized speakers to use in "stereo mode" for listening to music. I want to incorporate them into the RC Micro 5.1 system.

Ideally, they would be full range speakers that could be used with or without the sub. I am not looking to ROCK the house, but I would like to get a good solid full range speaker for music at moderate volume levels. What other speakers in the Energy line up would match up good with the RC Micros? I have the Onkyo 606 receiver. Thanks for any input.

yes i did.


easy enough, will do.


center channel is at the edge of the shelf it is sitting on, which may be recessed about 1/2'' from the top of the cabinet.


some yes, but not a ton. maybe 1-2.'' they have probably 10'' back to the wall.


thanks, i'll report back after i do.


and to the person that asked if there's a corner i can place the sub in, there's really not. the only corner available would end up with the sub sandwiched between the wall and the couch.

Are you using an SPL meter to volume match when comparing? From the specs the CB-20s are only slightly more sensitive than the RC-10s, but in practice you might find several dB difference in volume which will throw off the comparison unless you compensate for it.

Good choice on the AVR! A very flexible unit. You will have much to play with. Here is the Audyssey setup thread:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

Here is the 3808 owners thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=860539

See you there!

EDIT: Ha! I see you're there already!

Thanks for the info and the welcome! I actually subscribed to the 3808 owners thread over a year ago and finally bought it.

I've got a lot of work ahead, but it will be worth it.

It's interesting that the bass sounds better with the front three set to full range, and when you switch to small stuff gets "thin". What subwoofer do you have? The PA-120, right? That should definitely not be happening, although you have to go with what sounds good to you.

The place that tiny sats + sub setups will fall down is loud, 2-channel music, as the "hole" will really be exposed.

Unfortunately, not many people own the RC-micro so it's hard to say, although the good news is Energy speakers are all so neutral that most models will probably work.

I would think the RC's would be a good choice, or perhaps the new Connoisseur towers if you want to match the glossy black look (I would imagine since both the RC-micro and CF towers are brand new products they will have similar driver materials and tone). Even a nice set of bookshelves like the RC-10's or even C-200's or CB-20's would probably work out.

You could move the four little sats to surrounds and make it 7.1. Or, you could just use the RC-Micro for TV/movies and switch to the RC's for 2-channel music. I don't know if the 606 has this functionality, but on Denon receivers you can set it up so your 2-channel speakers are hooked up to the "B" speakers and when you switch to "STEREO" mode it automatically turns off the 5.1 and engages the 2-channel speakers.

Excellent, glad you are happier with them! As you have discovered, room positioning/acoustics makes a HUGE impact on the sound. Did you move the takes to surrounds and the C-100's as fronts for a 7.1 setup?

That's a lot of receiver for those wee little speakers though Soon the upgrade gods will start whispering in your ears. Are you still using the sub from the Take setup? I think the first priority may be a nicer sub and then let Audyssey MultEQ XT do its magic....

Yeah, I have a PA120. To me, it sounds like the speakers, and the sub sound like seperate entities, and there might be a hole. With the fronts set to full range they sounds like they work as a single unit.

The way I have it setup may not be the right way, and sound inaccurate. It sounds better to me though.

It might be placebo though, because I don't see the speakers going below 60Hz anyways.

Thanks for the suggestions. I am leaning toward going to a 7.1 system. My only concern was whether the RC Micro Center channel would get drowned out w/ larger L and R speakers. I can probably balance it out with the receiver settings.