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Harmony 880 . . . JUNK! - Page 3  

post #61 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expidia
My phone now is the Treo 650. this is an awesome device with an amazing aray of features packed into it. The screen is CRYSTAL clear, so clear I watch full length DVD's on it while I'm in airports or on planes.
That's a $500 phone, I'd expect the screen to be decent :)

At least you don't have to commit to 2 years of programming service on the Harmony 880 to get it for $180.

I think you're being unrealistic about your expectations. If you want to have sophisticated features in any universal remote, it's going to take time to get there. The Harmony will control the basics of most equipment with minimal setup, but if you want advanced functionality you'll have to work at it.

I don't think there's any universal remote on the market that will fit your requirements...
post #62 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expidia
No offense taken, I too browse the avs on my Treo 650.

As I've already mentioned in other posts here that I'm going to do exactly what you suggest. Ecost (did I mention that Ecost are a bunch of Scumbags for their no returns policy?).

So they are sending me a brand new one in a sealed box, which I'm going to list on Ebay for the $179 and ship it out free. Ecost is issuing a UPS pickup so since I would have to pay to return the first one, I'll just offer free shipping (probably cost me only 4-5 bucks for USPS).
So what's your returns policy?

Sorry, couldn't resist... :D
post #63 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expidia
recommend an alternative remote to me :)
MX-850 - a great computer programable remote. Priced higher than the 880 - but a solid remote with great features that is easy to program and use.
post #64 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkbalt
MX-850 - easy to program and use.
But harder than an 880. OP had problems programming an 880, so would have no hope with a URC.
post #65 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by parish_d
So what's your returns policy?

Sorry, couldn't resist... :D
Whenever I sell on Ebay, I offer a money back guarantee if not satisfied. Why, because I'm "a business man" and I know the value of excellent feedback and repeat business.

A 30 day return policy is what most reputable stores give you.

Offer the lowball price and cut it down to 10 or 15 days, fine with me.

But NO returns . . . .

ECOST SU*CKS!
post #66 of 112
Thread Starter 
[quote=jfischer]I think you're being unrealistic about your expectations. If you want to have sophisticated features in any universal remote, it's going to take time to get there. The Harmony will control the basics of most equipment with minimal setup, but if you want advanced functionality you'll have to work at it.

Sophisticated features . . . do you mean like turn the TV on and off and putting it on the correct input. Is this what you consider sophisticated?

Once I had my 5 year old Pronto T1000 learn the codes from my various remotes it did what it was supposed to do. And that was 5 years ago.

Seems for many of us (read other sites reviews and feedback on the 880) it takes a lot more tweaking than advertised.

I never liked the Pronto's form factor, poor screen and you had to be a mini programmer to go beyond simple macros. So I know I could get another Pronto product but I won't pay the price "again". Phililps could have supplied users with latest codes. I could also go to remote central.com where other users might have posted new codes.

But I can't be bothered :(

Thx for your comments and your courteous dialog. . . still I can agree to disagree with how simple the box and their website says what their product does.

I'm a member of many various forums because I buy " a lot" of electronics and get better feed back at sites like these rather than companies low informed tech people.

But even from this thread I can see the fanaticism some posters feel from a piece of electronic equipment (watch for the posts in other threads where they buy a new toy and they "love" it. Don't know how love can enter into the equation when talking about electrons but those are the ones that flip out in their posts when ever anyone disagrees with their opinion of their new toy (the one they Love) :D

I went back and re-read Harmonys ad for how simple it is to set up! Before I need to hear back from any users that did not run into my problems they should really read it themselves as this is what I read before I sprung for the 880 http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...categoryid=396
post #67 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expidia
Sophisticated features . . . do you mean like turn the TV on and off and putting it on the correct input. Is this what you consider sophisticated?
It is obvious at this point that you lack an understanding and appreciation of just how much logic and planning the remote has to do to make sure this all works seamlessly even when switching between activities etc... Its task is made significantly more difficult for TVs and AV receivers that do not have discrete inputs and power functions. The power of this remote is that even then for most people with setups of average complexity it DOES work after a quick setup. For others, a little tweaking will be required to get things setup exactly like they want. However, even that isn't hard, it is mostly frustrating to me that it is harder than it should be due to the poor design of the web interface (especially when it comes to allowing efficient access to advanced features).
post #68 of 112
As an update to my original problem about the loose battery and having to shim it with paper for the remote to work. I'm on the phone right now with support and once I told them the problem they said they are aware that some experience that problem and they offered an RMA right away for a new remote. Thats pretty satisfactory to me. QC probably needs to be a bit better but oh well.
post #69 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.m.
It is obvious at this point that you lack an understanding and appreciation of just how much logic and planning the remote has to do to make sure this all works seamlessly even when switching between activities etc... Its task is made significantly more difficult for TVs and AV receivers that do not have discrete inputs and power functions. The power of this remote is that even then for most people with setups of average complexity it DOES work after a quick setup. For others, a little tweaking will be required to get things setup exactly like they want. However, even that isn't hard, it is mostly frustrating to me that it is harder than it should be due to the poor design of the web interface (especially when it comes to allowing efficient access to advanced features).
Your exactly right. In addition to this, there is the personal choice each user wants. For example, some people will want the DVD drawer to open when they press "Watch DVD", others will not. Some will want all components on all the time, othere will want only the needed components. Some will want the volume to go up or down quickly, others more slowly. Some will want the TV volume for "Watching TV" will others will want HT Receiver all the time.

Anyway...I understand anyone who "just wants it to work". As I mentioned previously, just have a local HT Store program the thing for you. There is an added cost of course, but then you don't have to mess with it.
post #70 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowjay
As an update to my original problem about the loose battery and having to shim it with paper for the remote to work. I'm on the phone right now with support and once I told them the problem they said they are aware that some experience that problem and they offered an RMA right away for a new remote. Thats pretty satisfactory to me. QC probably needs to be a bit better but oh well.
What are they doing about the battery issue? Entire new remote, new battery or maybe a filler of somesort??

Yes Warranty service was excellent when I needed a new cradle, but had not called about the loose batter issue. Shim is working so well figured I'd just leave for a while.
post #71 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdallnct
What are they doing about the battery issue? Entire new remote, new battery or maybe a filler of somesort??

Yes Warranty service was excellent when I needed a new cradle, but had not called about the loose batter issue. Shim is working so well figured I'd just leave for a while.
They said its a defect in manufacturing and are sending me a new unit. I don't know if that means just the remote, remote/battery or complete retail package.

The shim does work but I'd much rather not have to do that for a brand new unit.
post #72 of 112
Thread Starter 
From Harmony's website:

Activity:
Set up your remote the first time
Here's how you do it with a Logitech Harmony Remote

Get the model numbers of all your components.
Set up your account on the Harmony Remote member site.
Using a simple Web Wizard, enter your component information and answer a few basic questions.
Connect your Harmony Remote to your PC or Mac via the USB cable.
Unplug the remote and start using it.
This should take about 20 minutes, and you probably will only have to do it once.

Note the 20 minute part ;)

Expidia: So I spent "over an hour" with tech support on the first go around. Sent back remote and Ecost (never buy from Ecost and their no returns policy) who never sent me a UPS pickup as promised. I spent another $7 to return it to them.

Other posters have said to keep trying tech support until I find a knowledgeable person. Found out today the first tech support person set the input codes wrong.

Spent "another 30 minutes" on hold to reach today's tech person. He was pretty good and "after another hour" got the inputs working correctly except one (the Panny XR55 would not change inputs).

So he passed me up to their second level tech. Spent another 1/2 hour awaiting him to pick up.

He was very knowledgeable and had me use the amp remote to overwrite that one code after about another 30 minutes on phone.

Also, another poster was correct in the misinformation the first tech told me that the help key can remember your settings which was driving me batty the first day.
The help key only re-syncronizes the settings after each update once they change your setting from their end (or if you know how to do it yourself from the webpage).

So now it's working. . . and the first remote was probably OK but more waste of time due to the first tech's knowledge level. How is one supposed to know you've reached a bad one until you've wasted an hour already and you're problems still not solved yet.

End result is it's turning my TV, DVD, Amp and DVR on and off and adjusting the inputs properly like I want it to. I always new I could get it right "if" I was willing to put in the time and effort with their hit and miss tech's.

For those of you that say "Oh I just downloaded my components and it worked flawlessly" . . . I say Logitech is advertising the setup for most buyers falsely.
Say what you want . . . my experience took 3 hours and more counting re-packaging and returning the first unit to the post office.

And from my experience with the setting up of the 880 . . . forum members that are so enamored with the 880 are not doing potential buyers of the 880 any favors by touting how easy it was for "them". If it was, that's great for you . . .

But after all is said and done, I think their 20 minute claim is Bulls*t.
The software bugginess and the poor web interface leaves much to be desired for buyers that think they are getting what Logitechs ads claim for ease of setup.

Still, I like the unit for what it does, that's why I went for it in the first place after reading "glowing" comments here and other reviews.

I'll probably buy two more once I see if this one will hold the settings and before the $50 rebate expires.
post #73 of 112
Expidia after all this now your a convert :). It is a nice remote. I agree it is not a plug and play endevor but it is much easier then programming a Pronto or such.
post #74 of 112
They say " it SHOULD take ABOUT 20 minutes"(my bold). Of course there are exceptions, and they don't promise it will take everyone only 20 minutes, however I would think that most people get it up and running(albeit not perfectly) in about 20 minutes.

I'm glad you persisted with it Expidia...hopefully it will meet your expectations from now on :)
post #75 of 112
Thread Starter 
In a few minutes it's going to be subjected to it's most excruciating test . . . the WIFE :eek:
post #76 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by czzer
They say " it SHOULD take ABOUT 20 minutes"(my bold). Of course there are exceptions, and they don't promise it will take everyone only 20 minutes, however I would think that most people get it up and running(albeit not perfectly) in about 20 minutes.

I'm glad you persisted with it Expidia...hopefully it will meet your expectations from now on :)

Or they should say" it should take about 20 minutes, but for some it could take a month!

Just teasing Expidia....glad you got it working.... ;)
post #77 of 112
Ok yes the great wife test :) i just had to chime in on that one.. my wife "loved" trying to figure out what did what to what just to watch "TV" that was before i picked up the 880 (ecost noproblems whatever) she liked the 880 and after a quick training session used it fine. BUT the cool part was a few days later i got that famous call at work needing help with the home theater stuff but this time she tells me "the new remote has a help button and it really works" wife likes it now.

ps add some universal e-grips to the 880 makes it easier to hold and it doesnt slide on the leather sofa then add them to the t650 fewer drops makes for a smarter smartphone.

Later All :cool:
post #78 of 112
Is there still a $50 rebate for the 880?
Got a link?
post #79 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobHT
Is there still a $50 rebate for the 880?
Got a link?
Yes, the rebate is good until mid-April.

You can find it here: http://s87018182.onlinehome.us/pics/...testrebate.pdf
post #80 of 112
As for Expidia's rants, while I dont agree with the way it was conveyed, I can somewhat understand his frustration at not having such an expensive item not working correctly.

It took my awhile to iron out the quirks in the 880, but once I did I was much happier with it. I cant say I'm in love with it, but it now does what it's advertised to do.

I also had to deal with Logitech's Tech Support which was more frustrating than it should've been but once they sent me a new cradle my charging/random beeping issues almost completely disappeared.

I also bought this at eCost, but being skeptical of their low price I knew that the cost of doing business with them meant that I wouldnt have the flexibility to return the unit. I knew this going into the purchase, so whether or not I like it I did agree to it.

It is a good lesson to learn for us consumers - make sure you do your research if you're buying from a company you've never bought from before! Things like this happen all the time to unsuspecting consumers, so do your homework before purchasing. Either that, or always buy from Costco!
post #81 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antidentite
As for Expidia's rants, while I dont agree with the way it was conveyed, I can somewhat understand his frustration at not having such an expensive item not working correctly.

It took my awhile to iron out the quirks in the 880, but once I did I was much happier with it. I cant say I'm in love with it, but it now does what it's advertised to do.

I also had to deal with Logitech's Tech Support which was more frustrating than it should have been but once they sent me a new cradle my charging/random beeping issues almost completely disappeared.

I also bought this at eCost, but being skeptical of their low price I knew that the cost of doing business with them meant that I wouldn't have the flexibility to return the unit. I knew this going into the purchase, so whether or not I like it I did agree to it.

It is a good lesson to learn for us consumers - make sure you do your research if you're buying from a company you've never bought from before! Things like this happen all the time to unsuspecting consumers, so do your homework before purchasing. Either that, or always buy from Costco!
Expidia Says: In hindsight . . . I should have titled the thread "Beware, Harmony . . . not as advertised". I realize now that it was overly harsh to put it in the junk category!

But I was piss*d off that I believed the many users in the forum who chimed in with the "my setup took 20 minutes and the 880's great" So I bought one off those remarks along with Logitechs false advertising and was trapped into more hours of setup time that I cared to invest for my money.

On ecost, I've bought many items from Ecost in the past. But I've never had to return anything to them. I thought they were like Buy.com where if you are unhappy with a purchase you just go onto their website and they give you an instant RMA. ecost sends me catalogs almost monthly and I thought they were a big company

Now I say . . . Why would ANYONE buy from ecost when the next store on the pricegrabber list is a $1 more with probably a full return policy.

ecost has been scamming buyers for years by advertising an item for a lowball price and then smacking you with a exorbitant handling fee as you are confirming your order (and you say, well I've already filled out the form, and you push the button). That's false advertising and I stopped buying from them years ago because of this scam. This time around they advertised "no handling charges and free shipping so I bought it there because I thought they mended their ways due to competition.

I was appalled when trying to return the 880, they said they would only replace it. I could see that if you were a first time buyer who surfs for the low price, but I was a customer with a list of prior purchases.

So SCREW ecost and anyone who buys from them is a sucker IMO with that return policy, when other more reputable stores are in the same price ballpark.
post #82 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expidia
Expidia Says: In hindsight . . . I should have titled the thread "Beware, Harmony . . . not as advertised". I realize now that it was overly harsh to put it in the junk category!

But I was piss*d off that I believed the many users in the forum who chimed in with the "my setup took 20 minutes and the 880's great" So I bought one off those remarks along with Logitechs false advertising and was trapped into more hours of setup time that I cared to invest for my money.

On ecost, I've bought many items from Ecost in the past. But I've never had to return anything to them. I thought they were like Buy.com where if you are unhappy with a purchase you just go onto their website and they give you an instant RMA. ecost sends me catalogs almost monthly and I thought they were a big company

Now I say . . . Why would ANYONE buy from ecost when the next store on the pricegrabber list is a $1 more with probably a full return policy.

ecost has been scamming buyers for years by advertising an item for a lowball price and then smacking you with a exorbitant handling fee as you are confirming your order (and you say, well I've already filled out the form, and you push the button). That's false advertising and I stopped buying from them years ago because of this scam. This time around they advertised "no handling charges and free shipping so I bought it there because I thought they mended their ways due to competition.

I was appalled when trying to return the 880, they said they would only replace it. I could see that if you were a first time buyer who surfs for the low price, but I was a customer with a list of prior purchases.

So SCREW ecost and anyone who buys from them is a sucker IMO with that return policy, when other more reputable stores are in the same price ballpark.
I am glad you are now happy with the remote I to love the remote and still tweaking it a bit.

I also bought from eCost, and have several times in the past. I hate to argue with you on it but...

eCost if very clear in their costs and what they charge you. You are paying less at eCost and you are getting less (in the form of a return policy). I don't understand the issue? I like to fly Southwest Airlines for the low fares. Many people do not as they think it is "stupid" they don't give you an assigned seat. It is not stupid, it is a business decision and they pass the savings onto the consumer. Same with eCost, they made a business decision and pass it on to the consumer. That is not a bad thing, but a good thing. Just as when I walk into a Wal-Mart store I know I'm not going to get knowledgable service, but I'm going to get good prices. It is capitalism at it's best. Different people offering different services at different prices. And it is consumerism at it's best when people "vote with their wallet". Enough people stop buying at eCost, and they may change their policy. But be careful what you ask for, they may change their policy and raise their prices!
post #83 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdallnct
I am glad you are now happy with the remote I to love the remote and still tweaking it a bit.

I also bought from eCost, and have several times in the past. I hate to argue with you on it but...

eCost if very clear in their costs and what they charge you. You are paying less at eCost and you are getting less (in the form of a return policy). I don't understand the issue? I like to fly Southwest Airlines for the low fares. Many people do not as they think it is "stupid" they don't give you an assigned seat. It is not stupid, it is a business decision and they pass the savings onto the consumer. Same with eCost, they made a business decision and pass it on to the consumer. That is not a bad thing, but a good thing. Just as when I walk into a Wal-Mart store I know I'm not going to get knowledgable service, but I'm going to get good prices. It is capitalism at it's best. Different people offering different services at different prices. And it is consumerism at it's best when people "vote with their wallet". Enough people stop buying at eCost, and they may change their policy. But be careful what you ask for, they may change their policy and raise their prices!
Expidia says: A quick check today over at pricegrabber for the 880 shows:

Av Wholesale $175.99 no tx or shipping, I didn't check their returns policy but they have a 4.5 rating from consumers

6th Ave = $175.06 (checked and has a returns policy) 4 star rating

Ecost = $200.99 and a NO RETURN POLICY! 3 star rating

Last week, ecost had a 60 min special for $179 on the 880. Now I know, they do this to suck you into making a quick decision to buy on impulse "like I did"!
But it seems both of the other stores above have "every day" low prices on the 880 in the $176 range.

I think the consumer star ratings here are trying to tell us something, don't you ?

But Ecosts likes customers like you (and formally me) or how would they survive. Glad you will continue to shop there, as you say we need the competition to keep the prices down, my money goes elsewhere though :D
post #84 of 112
When looking at an online vendor I haven't used before, I try to check it on resellerratings.com. It's a good site to learn from the experience of others.

The link for Ecost is here
post #85 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez
When looking at an online vendor I haven't used before, I try to check it on resellerratings.com. It's a good site to learn from the experience of others.

The link for Ecost is here
Thx and where were you last week before I placed my order ;)

Resellerrattings.com ratings on the ecost site:
6.64 Pricing of Products and Services
2.29 Likelihood of Future Purchases
4.11 Shipping and Packaging
1.97 Customer Service
1.18 Return or Replacement

Is this out of a possible 100 score . . . :) :) :) !

Thanks for the link, I'm going to re-post this on different sites every time those ecost snakes send me one of their catalogs, it will serve as a reminder for me to try and turn business away from them :D
post #86 of 112
I pretty much agree with what Expedia says about the misleading setup time claims by Logitech for the 880. In total, I have probably waited at least 3 hours just for their ridiculous web-based program to refresh screens. I'm a software engineer by profession, and I have found their software to be excruciatingly painful to use. If you have any kind of problem or want to make changes and experiment with settings, it can take about 30 minutes or more per iteration.

The idea of using a web-based program for the entire programming interface was IMO a serious blunder. Making someone with a broadband connection wait ten seconds just to refresh a single screen is unacceptable, especially considering the deeply nested design of the user interface.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Harmony is a great idea and I do like the remote, although it still is not doing exactly what I want, because I don't have enough control over it. My primary complaint is the slow user-interface, and not enough direct control for advanced users.

The other thing I don't like is that the custom label programming is EXTREMELY user un-friendly, especially if one is concerned with the ordering of labels.

Oh yeah, the cradle isn't all it's cracked up to be, either. Rather finicky with respect to placement technique.

So here's my score:

Hardware: 8/10
Software: 5/10
post #87 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by khoney
I pretty much agree with what Expedia says about the misleading setup time claims by Logitech for the 880. In total, I have probably waited at least 3 hours just for their ridiculous web-based program to refresh screens. I'm a software engineer by profession, and I have found their software to be excruciatingly painful to use. If you have any kind of problem or want to make changes and experiment with settings, it can take about 30 minutes or more per iteration.

The idea of using a web-based program for the entire programming interface was IMO a serious blunder. Making someone with a broadband connection wait ten seconds just to refresh a single screen is unacceptable, especially considering the deeply nested design of the user interface.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Harmony is a great idea and I do like the remote, although it still is not doing exactly what I want, because I don't have enough control over it. My primary complaint is the slow user-interface, and not enough direct control for advanced users.

The other thing I don't like is that the custom label programming is EXTREMELY user un-friendly, especially if one is concerned with the ordering of labels.

Oh yeah, the cradle isn't all it's cracked up to be, either. Rather finicky with respect to placement technique.

So here's my score:

Hardware: 8/10
Software: 5/10
Expidia says: Thx for your comments on the 880. My first cradle was finicky but my replacement cradle is just fine. I would call Logictech and ask for another one.

Nice to hear a software engineer had problems. As other have said it does have a bit of a learning curve to it.

With so many issues, the thing I found most annoying was the 20-30 min wait time for me and than another 20-30 min after the first tech put me up to level II support. That was just plain wrong.

I went to add one button last night, an "A" on the first screen of my DVR remote so I could delete saved shows from the DVR without having to go to another page (out of 7 pages).

Once saved, it would not upload the saved program to my 880. Had to call tech support (another 20-30 min hold time). I even rebooted before I called them and it still would not upload.
He had me switch to a different USB port and it started working.
Simple issues like this take much of my time. Tells me the software is glitchy.

But I did just order a second one for my living room HT ($176 at 6th Ave off Pricegrabber) and it should be interesting to see what happens after my initial upload with my other components once it is delivered.

I hope Logitech honors their $50 rebate as my units last 4 #'s are different than the ones on the rebate form as others have pointed out or I'm out another $100 for the two units.

Excruciating is an excellent choice of your words for my experience (frustrating works for me too) with the whole setup process.

At least the end result, leaves us with a workable, reasonably priced ($126) unit with macros.

I have not even tried the custom labeling program yet :eek:

I would also agree with your ratings assessment and would give it the same #'s from my experience.
post #88 of 112
Quote:
Ecost is well known and I never bothered to look at their return policy. I've never bought from a site that wouldn't take a product back. I never thought Ecost would screw the consumer on returns. Buy.com falls over backwards to keep you coming back as do most sites I've dealt with.
That's why I bought my Harmony Remote from Buy.com! :)

I realized that Ecost's low price came at the expense of the weak return policy. And, with an item like a remote, I wanted to be able to return it for my money back if I experienced any problems with it.
post #89 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expidia
Just received it today too bad as it was at a good price of $179 from Ecost.
Just to let you know... eCost is know for selling JUNK like the last two shippments I've gotten from them. My 880 from BB is working great!
post #90 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnagel
That's why I bought my Harmony Remote from Buy.com! :)

I realized that Ecost's low price came at the expense of the weak return policy. And, with an item like a remote, I wanted to be able to return it for my money back if I experienced any problems with it.
Buy.com is great . . . I just returned an item to Buy.com in a small box and I was surprised on how much the Post Office has jacked up their shipping lately.

What used to cost me $5 to ship a small box is now $7 and then they tell me it's gonna take 5-7 days.

That was last week and today I just received in the mail a postage paid UPS return shipping label from Buy.com. I guess they generated it when they issued me an RMA automatiaclly online. To bad for me I already shipped it back but what great customer service from Buy.com.

And most times when I'm a doing a search for any item on Pricegrabber.com Buy.com is one of the lower (if not lowest) priced vendor. Great service and low price. Can't ask for much more than that!
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