Anyone using Final Cut? WTB a Final Cut system also for HTPC use - Page 2  

JerryNY:

Those are great OPINIONS you have there but they are just that: opinions. You say you mean no ill will, then you go and tell me twice that I "need to be careful" in relaying my opinions. Excuse me? Who the $%* are you to be telling me what I need to be careful about?

I have been using the Macintosh platform since the proverbial 1984. I was editing on a Mac-based Avid long before there was a FCP. I have taught FCP classes numerous times, and I have used every version of FCP from 1.0 right up until today, and have done so on at least 10 differently configured computers. I also spent a lot of time at Macworld recently with a MacBook Pro and several of Apple's engineers talking about the transition to Intel as well as the Final Cut Suite. I have also built Mac and PC-based HTPCs from the ground up. I am comfortable saying that I know a thing or two about this subject.

It is my professional and informed opinion that purchasing a G5 would be a mistake and a waste of money.

I'm not going to rehash all the reasons why I'd recommend the laptop, nor am I going to explain what I perceive as fatal flaws in other's opinions, especially as regards to the fprthcoming Intel-native binaries and their viability as products, because frankly I'm done with this thread. It's too frustrating to try to explain something to the short-sighted, ill-informed, and supremely stubborn.

Good luck with your purchase, Matt, whatever you do.

Dude, calm down. You have impressive credentials but how can you recommend non-shipping and untested stuff? I have BOUGHT every version of FCP with my own money since 2.0 but recommending TWO products that are not SHIPPING as I type this makes me wonder what you are trying to do to this poor guy. I know many a professional who would not dare screw with his/her workflow with a new X.0 version of any software or hardware until they see reports about any show-stopping bugs and get info on any forthcoming fixes. What are the recommended sys requirements for the UB of FCP? What does Apple recommend as far as RAM for a MacBook Pro running FCP? We don't know. I do mean it when I say I am not attacking you. You are obviously excited about all the new hardware and UB's to come. So am I but I cannot recommend in good conscience that which I have a serious lack of information. I don't see any "fatal flaws" in anything upcoming from Apple but I can't say they don't exist either. Most likely there will be some teething problems. The only think I will say with 100% conviction is that there will be far fewer problems running a G5 with FCP in the next year than an intel Mac using FCP.

Matt_Stevens asks if a G5 would be good for the next 18 months, I say very much so. You don't think so? If he decides he wants to go into an intel Mac at that point he has used his investment for a year and a half, owns a license for FCP that he can get a UB for a pittance and jump over to an intel Mac. What is the big deal? Do you normally freeze a project in the hopes that the future will bring what you want? If you need it now you need it now.

-Jerry C.

Let's not run Matt back over to the dark side. Though the ultimate decision is his, that 2k G5 tower for will indeed be fine for the next 1.5 years, especially as he needs to get this project rolling. There will always be something later and greater around the corner. But if one never jumps in, one never gets wet.

One point, which may turn out to be minor, is that some Powermacs (Towers) cool the processors with fans. The noise levels could be a problem when in "Home Theater" mode. You might check this out to assess noise levels. The frequency for some of this noise falls right into the crucial audible portion for voice so also consider that you may want to use headphones for editing.

I've read about people putting their towers inside of a commercial noise baffle in recording studios. I don't know much about that, but I imagine with a little ingenuity you could make a box that would cut the noise level by 75% while preserving air flow. It probably wouldn't be as attractive as a G5 though.

Mark quietness as a plus for the laptops. My PowerBook is whisper soft -- thouth it wasn't always so. Somewhere around OS 10.3.2 - 10.3.3 Apple mucked up the fan controller software and it created noise problems for lots of PowerBook owners, myself included. The issue was soon fixed in 10.3.4 but it returned again briefly in 10.3.5 or 10.3.6. And we're all familiar with the notorious PowerMac G5 fan problems on-and-off under 10.3.x. Apple seems to have gotten that issue mostly under control with PowerMacs, from what I read. But it could all happen again with Intel hardware or with future OS versions.

You mean like this. They also make full ones for video editing suites. Had a good talk with the Noren guys at MacWorld, and was quite impressed. Granted you'll be paying good money, but, unless you have some really wimpy speakers--for editing you should be ok. Using it as an HTPC may be a problem though.

As for the MacBook argument, you do know that someone finally let slip that those were pre-production 'mock-ups', so they still haven't finished the design, and buying the first version can be problematic, and with a new port of software is quite a risk, and will likely be a headache. Also, think of all the studios that were snapping up the 'Classic-bootable' G4s to run OS 9 versions of ProTools. So, buying a G5 is certainly the best option, since Matt'll have good expandibilty, and better hardware with a tower (laptops are portable, but, they're still compromised to be that small).

Matt:

Now you're talking! I was one of those people that was advocating waiting for the MacIntel machine.

Have you ever considered a Mac Mini? For about $500 (if you have a monitor and a USB keyboard/mouse), you should be able to edit your 5 minute Mini DV movie easily. You can even buy the Final Cut Pro now and i would think that the upgrade to the Universal Binary version shouldn't be much. This would be the most cost effective solution for the project that you are considering at this point in time. Obviously your later HD requirements will need bigger iron, but then you can decide with real shipping hardware and software.

Otherwise, i would recommend looking at the Apple store website for refurbished G4 powerbooks. There should be some decent prices floating around, now that the Intel laptops are coming. Any of them should satisfy your current short film needs.

This place as well as Ebay are a few of many places to look. I haven't purchased from either, so proceed with caution. Though I may personally give them (DVW) a real long look, as I see some nice things there. If needed, those towers are plenty expandable.

I picked up a Mini in October and I've been more than pleased with it for low end video. Final Cut Pro isn't going to run smoothly on anything less than a G5 (so I read), but how painful can it be to edit a five minute segment? Final Cut Express works fine for my needs and it can be had for $99 with the purchase of a new Mac, or at least it was $99 when I got mine.

I'm not so sure the Intel FCP upgrade will be a trivial cost over the current version. I'd check that out with knowledgeable people at the Apple Forums or, better yet, get an Apple manager to approve a free upgrade if you buy FCP now (versus waiting to buy). Sometimes they will bend the rules to get a sale -- also something I've read, not from first hand experience.

Apple has stated that the intel UB upgrade discs for FCP will be $49. Buying a used system ain't a bad idea though, keeps your entry fee lower and with a short project like you are starting with it won't tax you too much.

-Jerry C.

according to the Apple website - the minimum requirements for FCP 5.0 is:

"Macintosh computer with a 867MHz or faster PowerPC G4 or G5 processor; not supported on Intel-based Mac computers with Rosetta (learn about Universal application availability)
HD features require 1GHz or faster single or dual processor; authoring of HD DVDs requires a PowerPC G5 processor
AGP or PCI Express graphics card
Mac OS X v10.3.9 or Mac OS X v10.4 (or later)
QuickTime 7.0 or later
1GB of disk space required to install application; additional 10GB required to install all optional templates, loops, content and tutorials (may be installed on separate disks)
DVD drive for installation"

For standard definition video, the Mac Mini would do just fine - the lowest configuration is a G4 1.42 GHz. People can correct me if i'm wrong but the video on the graphics card doesn't do much for FCP - it's the physical RAM so upgrading it to 1GB should be fine.

Depending on the amount of real time effects you want to see is the limitation of your RAM, but as everyone was saying - how painful can it be to produce a 5 minute video? Your stated requirements are very trivial and any modern Mac should be able to meet your needs. DV video is a lot easier to handle than the old way of handling uncompressed video.

Best thing to do is to stop by your local Apple store and ask them for advice. Don't forget to give them your exact requirements - without that 5 minute SD requirement, they will obviously steer you towards the big iron.

machound: If the mini can run FCP Express, it can run FCP full version. As i mentioned, the only difference are the advanced HD and audio features that Matt doesn't need for his current project. I used to use FCP up to 4.0 and it ran fine on my old G4 Dual 867mhz. The advances in iMovie have caught up to my basic editing needs and i no longer use FCP - this may mirror the current SD needs of Matt. As others have stated, iMovie is a very powerful program.

I believe the hardware requirements for FCP 4.5 and the recent Studio have been described and supplied on this Forum and on Forums that support Professional users. The mini does not meet those requirements.
From your comments, I am more inclined to recommend iMovie than FCP for you as a less expensive and less risky way to transition. A mini is likely OK for using iMovie. If you find yourself editing more and more and your ambitions for those projects grow, then FCP may be worth consideration along with whatever hardware is available at the time.
There is yet another aspect, perhaps minor, regarding audio sources. iMovie will accept any Apple supported audio codec, including mp3, and most if not all music purchased via iTunes store. In contrast FCP will only accept aif, 48kHZ. FCP will not accept any iTunes purchased material, not only because of the compression but also because iTunes provides copy protection. FCP, a "Pro" tool, assumes users will purchase rights to use from the owners of the audio.

Matt:

Now HD could be a problem on the Mini. From what i understand, it plays 720 OK, but for 1080, you need a minimum of a G5..... the plot thickens some more.... :)

LP: From that list of requirements from Apple's site and the fact that Matt only wants to produce a 5 minute MiniDV standard definition video, i think that the Mini will get the job done. Would it be as smooth and great as a G5? Probably not. But i think that Matt can live without those real-time effects that are so great about the more recent versions of FCP.

BTW: I also agree with you that iMovie should be able to handle his project just fine. And the Mini comes bundled with iLife 06. He could try them both and see how he likes them. The upgrade price to the UB version of FCP looks affordable and i think that if he buys a version of FCP right now, the upgrade should be free (please correct me if i'm wrong).

Apple describes the migration process, due to start soon, from the current FCP to "Universal" on their(FCP) site(http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/topquestions.html). There are no "free" upgrades. There are updates, but those are very different than upgrades.
In my view, using iMovie tools , such as they are, is not going to help using FCP if and when one gets to FCP. Of course, using either one can help you generate a video, but the path and the final results are going to be quite different.

Matt:

It seems to me that every version of iMovie adds more and more features.

http://www.apple.com/ilife/quicktour/imovie/

There may be enough here to satisfy your requirements. I'm pretty there are a number of third party plug-ins - just google them.

LPFactor is right about the differences between iMovie and FCP - different work environments - the files aren't even compatible (not even the downloaded footage). The beauty about the whole iLife suite is the tight integration between iMovie;iPhoto;iTunes;and iDVD. The FCP Studio Suite is less integrated but obviously more powerful.

Obviously, if you want to work in a true professional environment - FCP would be the best bet to start learning now.

p.s. did you check if that Dual 867mhz had the power supply upgrade? That was the G4 that had the LOUD fan. I've got that one and forgot to get the free upgrade. :(

There's a company here in the UK that has the rights to all of Apple's DOA machines. They fix them and ship them out again with identical guarantees to the Apple one but with quite a saving on the list price. Sometimes the fault could just be a connector that's fallen out during shipping...

Is there an equivalent in the US?

Hi Matt:
1) I posted a response to your query in the HDTV Recorder section about what the Dual Core 2.0 ghz can do.
2) Would it be easier to go to Kinko's? I'm not sure how simple or complex your editing is going to be.
3) Another option would be go rent a friend's surplus mac and pay him with the copy of FCP if you don't need to use it for anything but this project.
Wilson

Matt:

Looks like a reasonable machine! Good Luck!

If have a Roku or the equivalent to stream to, why dump it back on to eBay? It will work just fine for streaming (way simpler than a PC) and will still be there for the occasional film project. Even if you are capturing stuff with a PC, it's still easier to use the Mac to stream back to your consumer electronics.

That setup will do just fine for your short. Asia? Will you be scouting locations for project #3? :p

Yeah, Matt - if you are a budding porn director I will gladly donate my Dual Core!

:cool: