New Sony HDR- HC3 Compact HDV 1080i Camcorder! - Page 3  

Well I think it's only fair to relate my first-hand experience with the HC3 and the HC1. It forces me to throw egg on my own face, but it wouldn't be fair to let my own initial opinions stand uncorrected.

I was at Sony Style on Long Island a few days ago to see the HC3 for myself. I was immediately struck with its beautiful color rendition as its live output was displayed on a large screen Sony plasma. I had called prior to ask the store manager if it was OK to bring in my HC1 to do a side by side test with the HC3 on tape. She said it was OK (but I was still questioned once I got there).

At any rate I tested both cameras, swapping tape back and forth as I shot different scenes. The salesman was watching with interest and asked what I thought. I responded "I'll tell you when I get the tape back home and watch on my display". He offered to play the tape back on their Sony plasma. As an intermediate step I thought that was OK. I was shocked to see what I felt was decidedly better and more accurate color from the HC3. But I thought to myself (I didn't have my TV glasses) I bet the HC1 is still sharper once I get my glasses at home and the tape on my Fujitsu plasma. To cut the salesman short, I asked if they were in stock (I really had little intention of buying it since I didn't think it would hold up once I got home).

Once I fired up my Fujitsu and put on my glasses, I got one of the bigger 'video shocks' in my life. Not only was the HC3 every bit as sharp in THAT situation, but the color was indeed better.

So I called a buddy who's also anal about video and also has the HC1. He agreed to go half with me on any restocking fee should I buy the HC3 and find, after more in-depth shooting, that the HC1 was better.

So I hopped back to Sony, bought the camera and tested it for 2 days....bright light, low-light, medium lighting, outdoors & indoors.

I'm here to tell you I was wrong. The comparison clips I downloaded simply don't do the HC3 any justice whatsoever and I have no idea why. In the many tests I ran, the HC3 was either at least as good as the HC1 in some situations and better in many others. My buddy came over to see the results (I didn't tell him which video came from which camera). He consistently picked the HC3 as did my wife and as did I.

My friend is leaving for Vegas today, but needless to say, upon his return, he is picking up an HC3 too.

The other nice thing about the HC3 is the available HDMI output. Even if you believed the HC1 was slightly sharper (it isn't based on my tests), you'd lose that advantage since you'd need to output component from the HC1 while the HC3 can go HDMI. My tests showed an advantage to HDMI with a brighter picture, better color and a tad more sharpness. The only way I had been able to use an HDMI on the HC1, was via its firewire output in to my JVC 5U D-Theater deck. This was a bit awkward and it was about the only use I've had for the JVC these days. Most people will not be able to output the HC1 via firewire since most HDTVs sold today don't have firwire inputs, but rather HDMI.

Wow, we finally have our first direct comparison of HC1 vs HC3 from somebody who knows what to look for instead of some first time buyer of HC1/HC3. Million thanks to Ken for undertaking such endeavor because many of us will benefit a great deal from this information. Ken's observation also confirms my impression from that German site that HC3 seems to have sunnier and more natural color redition than HC1, aside from having equal sharpness as HC1.

BTW, with HD DVD player coming to stores this past weekend, many AVS members have reported that they had successfully burned HC1/HC3 HD video onto a DVD using Ulead/Nero and played on the Toshiba HDDVD at 1080i, and the pictures looked every bit as good as JVC DVHS or better. This is going to be one more big reason to get a HC1/HC3 because it can now even archive and replay your recordings like a regular camcorder (not to mention its size)!

Hey, Ken, its time to replace your JVC with the Toshiba too. ;)

Thanks for the report Ken. Good stuff.

I was in Best Buy over the weekend and they had a HC-1 and HC-3 side by side. I couldn't compare the outputs but I noticed that the LCD screen display on the HC-3 is noticeably sharper. Did you see the same thing? The extra pixel count definitely shows.

I will be getting my HC-3 today. Can't wait. :)

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-Review.htm

New review posted this morning. Enjoy!
I'm going to buy one right now at my local Circuit City. They are on special for $1282.49 with a 10% coupon code.

very interesting article, hardly a ringing endorsement of the HC3. It suggested that HC3 was a "dumbed down" version of HC1 while HC1 was geared more towards the pros. It even went on to say in its conclusion that "The changes to the HC3 are certainly not the type of changes we typically like here at CamcorderInfo.com".

Even when it comes to HC1's strong suit: sharpness, the message in the article seems conflicted. On one hand the author believed the HC1 had better sharpness, but on the other hand when shooting a test pattern the HC3 was able to resolve more lines than HC1. So on video test HC3 had a 9% higher resolution than HC1.

I just got the HC-3 this evening and have spent the last few hours playing with it. I still have more testing to do but my initial impression is that it works very well and the PQ is stunning!

Like the article says, there are some manual controls missing and the LCD menus are a little cumbersome to navigate but overall, it's very easy to use and takes excellent video. So far, I'm happy.

The still camera is also pretty decent. Attached is a picture I snapped using the flash. Of course, this pic is sized down to fit as an attachment here so the original looks much better with no compression artifacts.

Have to go to bed now and will post more later.

Here are some more of my initial random thoughts.

First the environment. I am viewing the videos from the HC-3 via HDMI to a Sony 57" HD RPTV which is only about a year old. I have never actually owned an HC-1 although I've used it with friends and in stores.

The camera is very small compared to the HC-1. When I hold it in my hand I can't believe that I'm holding a $1500 (retail) piece of equipment. The good thing (as noted in the above review) is that the plastic is very sturdy. It feels pretty solid and comfortable.

I was never too crazy about the famous Sony "zoom rocker". It's difficult to control the speed of the zoom. Thank goodness the "+" and "-" buttons on the LCD screen give you a slow zoom control.

Yesterday, I did some indoor and outdoor shooting. The indoor shots came out good with just a little hint of grain. Actually the coloring and contrast looked pretty darn accurate. The outdoor shots in a very hot Texas sun (it was 98 degrees here yesterday, YUCK!) looked fantastic. Very detailed and sharp. I was amazed how I could see individual blades of grass in my back lawn.

I must admit, I do miss having manual controls as buttons. For instance, to do a simple fadeout, I had to go into the LCD menu screens to activate the fade before I finished the scene. Didn't take long but still sort of a pain. I'm sure over time I will get good at it so it probably won't matter in the long run.

I am really impressed by the built in still camera. The quality is more than enough to satisfy any casual shooter. Printing the pic files using any local photo retailer or internet service should render some excellent prints. The flash works well and I like where it's located on the front of the lens barrel.

The top loading tape is a big plus. Makes it very easy to change tapes when needed even when on a tripod.

When I was shooting outside, there was some wind blowing across the microphone. The HC-3 did have a little trouble handling the wind noise although that it to be expected due to the location of the built-in mic.

I do miss the focus ring but to tell you the truth, I could get used to the way the HC-3 handles manual focus. It's really not all that bad and I actually find it more convenient. There is also less of a chance of your hand getting in the picture.

As I noted above, the LCD screen is noticeably sharper on the HC-3 vs the HC-1.

These are just my initial thoughts. It will take me some time to get a feel for this camera but so far, it looks good. The video is quite adequate for any shooting situation.

As for the differences between the HC-1 and HC-3, it really all depends on how you are going to use them. Lately, I have become a point and shoot type person and the HC-3 fits the bill. Along with the ease of use, the video is amazing so as far as I'm concerned, it's a keeper.

Pretty sharp-looking picture for only 49.3 Kb. What was the original picture
size? Have you been able to compare stills from all the quality options? You ruined my dieting resolve for the day with the shot of those cupcakes.

I do believe those are muffins :p
By the way i have some family in Eugene.....

Yes Chris, the LCD is unquestionably sharper. I just wish they hadn't cut the pixel count on the viewfinder since that's what I use most of the time. Despite this, the viewfinder is still qutie usable.

One terrific feature of the HC3 is the assignable jog dial on the front side of the camera. This enables you to assign parameters such as white balance, focus, exposure shift etc. to that button. You can then make changes on the fly using the dial. By pushing the button in for about 2 seconds, you bring up an instant menu that enables you to change the function assigned to that button. Thus, if you had white balance assigned, you can very quickly assign manual focus to that button. Very very neat!

One of the camcorder review sites totally missed that feature (as did I) and indicated you had to wade through menu after menu to change the button assignment. It was later pointed out by a poster, who downloaded the PDF file of the manual, that there was a far simpler way to do this.

This is just one terrific little HD camera. When you see the videos this thing produces from something so tiny, you'll be amazed. :)

There were a number of errors in that review that I pointed out to the editor. They have since changed some of their ratings. Also keep in mind that the changes the reviewers didn't like were the removal of certain features, not the picture quality. But in my tests, I never saw a situation where the HC1 was sharper than the HC3. When there was a difference, it was in the favor of the HC3. I've had 3 people observe the comparison (myself, my wife and a friend who's also a videophile) and all agreed the HC3 picture was better and at times sharper. Keep in mind that I'm not talking about huge differences, but rather subtle differences.

In one test I shot in an Ikea parking lot, I held the shot of a number of parked cars for about 1 minute. The intent was to compare sharpness of both cameras (I was cradling both). When I got back and synched up the tapes (I tried both on component for quick switches and also HDMI/firewire for better picture quality), I found I could more easily read the license plates on the HC3 footage. This held true whether I watched the A/B via component or HDMI/firewire. In the case of the component test, each input was adjusted exactly alike. In the case of the HDMI/firewire test, both units shared the same input and switching was done via a Gefen HDMI switcher. So again, all picture parameters on the display were exactly alike.

Bottom line is that these are both superb cameras, but I personally find the HC3 to produce more life-like videos. You can't go wrong with either one.

Good catch Ken. I found that feature in the manual right after I wrote my last post. Makes it much easier to change the function of the jog dial. Even though the dial is nothing like an actual focus ring, it does the job and it's not really that hard to use.

thanks, Chris and Ken for taking time to share your first hand impressions.

I was at BB this afternoon and saw the HC3 the store just received this morning. That thing was indeed small! so much so that I completely missed it among a few dozen camcorders on display until the salesguy pointed it out to me because it didn't stand out by its size. I think I am going to have some fun shopping for an HC3 this weekend.

I am in the process of buying a new camcorder and the HC3 seems like the perfect match for me. I was wondering where I should purchase it from? Who has the best deal? I saw that someone said it was 10% off at Circuit City, but I didn't see it for the price he had listed on their website. Any info would be great. Thanks!

same here. I can't find the CC10% coupon either. But BB has it online at $1350.

By far the best price is at pricejapn.com, $900 and $1030 in your hand. They claim everything is the same except the language and warranty. I am debating whether the saving of $450 (which I would use to buy a HDDVD player) is worth suffering thru the Japaness menu, assuming HC3 being a pretty reliable unit without much need for warranty work.

For those of you HC1/HC3 out there, how often do you have to look up the user manual once you get familiar with all the features? Do you have to change the settings on HC1/HC3 often? What concerns me more is perhaps the file transfer to PC, is software like ULead going to work with the files from Japanese version HC3 just like with the English?

I recently purchased the HC1 and am quite happy with its results. It was my first time buying a camcorder. But now, after reading the early reviews on the HC3, it makes me wonder whether I made a bad choice. I am particularly intrigued by the HC3's smaller size and the reported increased pixel count on the LCD display. All in all it sounds like a tremendous improvement over the HC1 with very few negatives. I do like the zoom ring on the HC1, but could probably get used zooming another way.

Since I purchased the HC1 within the past 30 days I will be able to return it for a small but reasonable restocking fee. And with BB's current price, and store availability, it makes it very, very tempting.

Ken, after doing side by side comparisons, is this a "no brainer" in your opinion? Anyone else, what would you do in my situation?

I personally don't think you made a bad choice. The HC-1 is a nice camera. It really depends on whether or not you must have the latest model available. The HC-3 is geared toward the casual shooter. It seems though that Sony did update a few things (like the HDMI interface, LCD screen, etc.).

If you are within 30 days of owning the HC-1, go to the store and take a hard look at the HC-3. Spend as much time as you need and make your decision based on your present and future needs.

WOW! Honestly, yesterday that camcorder was $1425. Now it's $1350! SUPER tempting. I feel like I am obligated to buy it now... :)

I agree with Chris you ought to go BB to check them out. A lot of BBs have both of them on display and HC1 is on clearance. I saw one floor model for just $1100. If you decide to keep HC1 they probably can do some price matching for you to save you a few dollars since its still within 30days. HC1 has some nice pro features, and it sure helps to make a statement to your friend that you are into some serious hobbies.

No Ron, it's actually far from a 'no brainer'. Please, don't feel badly at all! Just today I was doing more testing and trying to find a better way to conduct my A/B tests. It occurred to me that my JVC 5U has 2 firewire inputs to go along with its HDMI output. So I hooked up both cameras to the firewire inputs and was able to make switches within a 1/2 second. Long switches had deterred me from using HDMI and firewire too much. A long swtiching time makes it MUCH harder to really closely compare two of anything. So this is really an ideal way to do it AND I can instantly compare audio. Soooo, here's my 'latest' findings:

* At times the HC1 IS a bit sharper, but you really have to get close to my 50" screen to see it. Sometimes the HC3 is sharper. I think to some degree (I could be wrong), the lens of both cameras respond a bit differently to glare and sun angle. This may be why at times one is sharper and at other times, the other is sharper. At typical seating distances, these differences are pretty tough to pick up even though they are there upon closer inspection

* The audio is somewhat better on the HC1. Although the HC3 is at times 'louder', there is more fidelity and stereo separtation coming from the HC1

* Color is still probably the biggest difference between these 2 beauties. I found that when I'm shooting mid-day to later in the afternoon, the color is fairly close. Keep in mind I have the HC3 in-camera color dialed down one notch. I also have the HC3 in-camera white balance set one notch to 'cool'. Out of the box this camera really is too saturated and a bit too warm. On the other hand, I sometimes find the HC1 a bit cool.

* I was shooting in the morning and found the biggest color differences between the 2 cams. The HC1 was definitely cooler whereas the HC3 was warmer and more pleasant to my eyes. I could kick myself for not throwing the HC1 in to the 'outdoor' position to see if that would have warmed it up....I suspect it might have. Maybe tomorrow.

* I think on a consistent basis, from what I've seen, the HC3 has an edge on pleasing color. When I say 'pleasing', I'm not saying 'inaccurate' but pleasing, but I think it may be a bit more accurate and pleasing. Not big differences at all and some people would probably just overlook these issue. I'm cursed with a pretty sensitive eye to color, so for me it's pretty easy to see these things.

* I've noticed, in typical indoor lighting (not overly bright, but average), the HC1 is sharper than the HC3. Now this runs contrary to what I've heard, but perhaps this is because I'm not talking about real low-light, just average indoor lighting. I'm not sure why the HC1 would be sharper under these conditions (perhaps its larger lens?), but I've seen this pretty consistently.

* Despite the talk, I don't see all that much of a difference in low-light. Yes, the HC3 is a bit better, but it looks to me to be getting that capability at the expense of grain. It almost looks like Sony just raised the gain to achieve the slightly better low lux rating. The funny thing is that in my opinion, this is one of the more minor differences between the two cameras.

* The LCD is nicer than the HC1's LCD, but the viewfinder on the HC1 is nicer than the HC3's viewfinder. So do you use the viewfinder or the LCD when you typically shoot. Don't overlook that point. This is not to say you couldn't use the HC3's viewfinder, it's just not quite as good the HC1's.

Now, here's something I think is REALLY important. Any differences between sharpness in these two cameras is overshadowed by your connection methodology. If you assumed the HC1 was slightly sharper under 'some' condtions, the HC3 could EASILY recapture this sharpness difference by hooking it up via HDMI. I find HDMI on my Fujitsu plasma is definitely sharper and more poppy than component. I suppose some of this depends on your TV. But with the HC1 you're limited to firewire in terms of a digital pathway. If I didn't have my JVC 5U D-Theater deck, there's no way I could get an all-digital signal into my plasma.

So you see it's really a mixed bag. Both units have advantages and both have some disadvantages. You get no headphone jack or mike input on the HC3, and this could be a handicap if you're thinking of going the extra mile with audio. At times I use my HC1 as a backup camera for my Sony VX2000. I wouldn't be able to have the same functionality with the HC3 if I used it as my backup. You could go with Sony's proprietary mikes, but that means you are limited.

To be honest, I'm kind of torn between these two great cameras, and they ARE both great HDV units. Each has its own personality and I suspect there's no right or wrong choice. So why am I having so much trouble deciding??? ;)

Ken, thanks again for your comprehensive, ongoing analysis. It really sounds like you are torn. I have yet to touch or see the HC3, and been just reading this forum, and taking it all in. Then I noticed yesterday its availability at BB with the 10% discount, so I'll probably have a look over the weekend. Obviously, can't do any A/B as I don't want to purchase and subject myself to additional restocking fees.

Interestingly, the pathway I am using on the HC1, and obviously will do with the HC3, is firewire into my JVC 30K and component out to the Fujitsu. You mentioned that you are using HDMI for viewing.

Certainly, I will have a first hand look over the weekend. I know you have that legendary critical eye, and perhaps mine is no where as keen as yours. Perhaps, the deciding factor may be pure size and weight. I will have to see for myself.

Thanks Ken and others, for their comments and opinions.

Ron, in critically reviewing the HC3 footage on its own via HDMI, I think I really have to give the edge on overall PQ to the HC3. Even though at times the HC1 can be just a tad sharper (as can the HC3 in certain situations), it just appears the HC3 has a more consistent 'wow' factor and a bit more of the 'you are there' look. I think invariably it's due to, IMO, it's better colors. It seems the sharpness advantage that either of these has in any given scene, is lost at normal viewing distances. At that point you just see the overall look of the picture and the color.

With the 10% off coupon, it is now $1,214.99 at CircuitCity. I pulled the trigger and ordered one. I guess I'm going to have to break down and buy an HDTV now.

I'm not sure how you got $1,214.99 as the final price at CC. I thought their base price was $1,424.99, which at 10% off would be $1,282.99. Any more details on how to get the 10% coupon?

A Best Buy store said they'd give me the same price as online, which is $1,349.99. But, they wouldn't budge off the $250. price for their 4-year extended warranty. Their batteries are much higher-priced than many places, but their Memory-Sticks are a bit less than average.

Can anyone give a first-hand reference about how well Circuit City and Best Buy perform on their in-house extended warranties?

Yes, please let us on the forum know where to get the 10% off coupon you are referring to.

I got my 10% off coupon in an email from CircuitCity because I'm on their mailing list.

I used the coupon on the HC3 this past monday when their special web price was $1424. Today the special web price is $1349. I called up one of their operators hoping I can get some money back from their price guarantee protection but alas the CSR said my price with the coupon discount is still lower than the new web price. In other words, I couldn't get her to apply the coupon discount off the new price.

Also it seems my coupon is either a 1-time use, or cannot be applied today.

I just went to my deleted mail box folder and found a CC Easter Coupon, but it was for 3 days, so apparently can't be applied now anyway. Looks like $1,349 is the best retail price at either CC or BB right now. My guess is that if there were coupons for this weekend, the $1,349 price would disappear from their site.

Ah, I just read the fine print at the bottom of the 10% coupon email. It states:

This offer is good for 10% off $199 or higher. Offer good for one use only and applies to total qualifying purchase on a single sales receipt dated between 04/16/2006 and 04/20/2006

Looks like case is closed on the coupon.

And, of course, yesterday when the coupon was still valid, their price was not as low as it is now. So essentially, looks like they've rolled the coupon into their new web price.

I bought my HC1 at CC last fall with one of those email coupon deals. Not only did it apply to the HC1 but to the additional warranty, case and battery.