Originally Posted by Cowclops
It seems as if to get through to you I must limit my posts to no more than one sentence. Are you actively choosing to ignore the question of the placebo effect, or are your reading comprehension skills just not up to your typing skills?
I'll say it again, I didn't bother telling you that my system is a mishmash of commercial stuff and stuff I built myself because I'm not looking for the results of a comparison, I'm trying to see if you can understand why the results of your comparisons and many other people's MAY NOT BE valid.
Maybe you don't know what the placebo effect or snake oil is. I'll let you in on a secret - a placebo is a sugar pill or whatever you may be given in a clinical test so taht you are the control group from which the results of the actual medicine is based off of. If both the sugar pill and the actual drug under test cause an improvement in symptoms, then it is known that the drug under test is probably ineffective/unnecessary as it is not the cause that improves your condition. The same thing applies in an audio system... if actually changing to a higher end CD player and telling someone you're going to install a higher end CD player but really giving them the same components in a slightly different looking case both causes an improvement in sound quality, then chances are that it was mere suggestion and had nothing to do with the change in equipment.
If this concept is alien to you, and you didn't realize that you are subconsciouscly fabricating elaborate descriptions of the hardware, then you are not being honest with yourself, never mind whether you're being honest to the rest of the crowd. When you understand how easy it is to subconsciouscly fabricate differences where no audible change exists, you'll understand why people like me hate it when such snake oil claims are made (even if its not for your own personal profit).
To claim an effect without suggesting a cause in such a fashion you are doing is highly dubious.
You make a statement like this (and many others)...
|*Digital output on a ~$100 to $200 5 disc DVD/CD changer vs any "high end" single disc cd player, when they're both connected to the same preamp/dac.
*The dacs in any reasonable preamp/processor vs any high end outboard dac.
And then on repeated request still won't provide one bit of information on what equipment you've done these comparisons on and what components you've actually compared and how you've gone about doing the comparisons to come to the conclusions you have.
|Maybe you don't know what the placebo effect or snake oil is.
You are indeed one frustrated puppy aren't you. Have a read again of your last post. And then read my post before it. Is your whole argument based on some presumption that myself and all the rest of the posters here do not know what the placebo effect is ?. I'd like to ask you on what basis you make his judgement ?. I've given you indications of the comparisons I've made and been part of. I described just how easily any placebo effects can be negated in comparisons. You ofcourse have either totally missed that or conveniently ignored all this.
What makes you think I and just about every other person on this forum does not know what the placebo effect is? let me see, I think I learned what the placebo effect was what when I was ten years old?. Can you understand that you might not be the only person who might have an understanding of the concept. Or is this jsut your continuing patronising nature ?
Perhaps I need to turn things, and I'll ask yet again what comparisons have you done on what equipment and using what components to come to the conclusions you have. Let us know otherwise can only take it you have absolutely no technical basis for what you say ?. And let us know just how you went about the comaparisons - what measures did you take to get around the placebo effect ?
|To claim an effect without suggesting a cause in such a fashion you are doing is highly dubious.
I think you'll find causes and efects have already been detailed in this thread by many others. I can only take it you have chosen to ignore them as you have ignored my questions.
|If this concept is alien to you, and you didn't realize that you are subconsciouscly fabricating elaborate descriptions of the hardware, then you are not being honest with yourself, never mind whether you're being honest to the rest of the crowd. When you understand how easy it is to subconsciouscly fabricate differences where no audible change exists, you'll understand why people like me hate it when such snake oil claims are made (even if its not for your own personal profit).
Please show me where I have done this. It might interest you to know I have done plenty of equipment comparisons where I and others in the room have not heard a difference or the improvement provided does not justify the cost of upgrade. If theres an improvement or no improvment or the cost outwieghs the benefit provided I and others I know state it so. I think I am and we are honest to our selves and the rest of the crowd.
As an example I extensively compared 3 current DACs on my system recently.http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s...dpost&p=324708
None provided an audible improvement on my system over my current dac to justify an upgrade. I and the others part of the comparisons were honest with ourselves to see it as it was. I believe I told it like it is. I didn't run out and buy one of these because of manufacturers claims, media hype, rave reviews or because it had newer technology or whatever.
It might also interest you to know I've done many many comparisons over the years and not bought for the above reasons. But on the counter some comparisons have revealed an absolute gem of a product that I'm enjoying and will continue to enjoy no doubt for many years to come.
Re yourself and what you say. Sorry but the comparisons I've done indicate otherwise. Give me some basis for your arguments otherwise I have no choice but to dismiss them along with yourself as perhaps just someone standing on a soapbox trying to draw attention to themselves with little basis to what theyre trying to say.