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Dali speakers - Page 7

post #181 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted W View Post

No comments about Jeff Rowland?

Hello Ted

Jeff Rowland is about the best you can buy for solid state high end audio gear.
A large portion of his business is sold overseas, where 2 channel is still preferred
over home theater. Just bring a lot of money! Well worth the investment.

http://www.jeffrowland.com/

post #182 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by little leo View Post

I have to disagree with jjtoma, about what he thinks is the best ss amp for the money. mcintosh still holds the best resale value and they still make teh best amps as far as rated true power and noise. ( not just saying this because I own them, I also own b&k, krell and acpse amps. and other then accphase I would put mcintosh up there with mc having the best resale as far as used due to the fact you will be able to sell them quick and get a good return. Though mcintosh sound is not for everyone, they do tend to have a heavy or colored tone, I would say they focus more on mids and vocles and they tend to have their highs more on a back stage then up front. The mcintosh 501's just really are a steal at the cost and I have had tubes and ss and this amp is very very quite and they are very detailed. as much at low vuls as high. Also they will power any speaker you have or prob will get. Like i said I am a owner of this amp but also I did compare this to many before i chose and depending on the mood im in I would and will put this up with my accuphase amps and the accs, are double the price. also alot depends on your preamp, I run shindo's most dont know about this product made in japan this preamp is so good that wilson is now going to use these preamps with their max's they were so impressed with them at their shows that they orderd them. and to me wilsons are just the best watt puppys need I say more? All just my opion guys, just get what ever your ears tell you also just because someone (including me) says or tells you this is the thing to own (also dealers) trust yourself just dont get caugh up in the rat race you dont need to spend alot take your time and build thats the best part of this hobby. Learned the hard way when i thought b&w's the diamonds were the speakers to have nauts, yeah 3mnths later and hrs of ear bleads from shrills, they are now sitting in my base ment collecting dust lol

little Leo

1) taxman48 started this thread asking about Dali & Jeff Rowland, nobody
answered the original question. Ted repeated it, Ted wanted to know
about Jeff Rowland. He just never heard about it before,
nobody answered his question.


2) Please reread my my first sentence, I never said Jeff Rowland was THE best.
"Jeff Rowland was ABOUT the best". There is a top tier of audio companies,
as you well know from your experience.

PS Thanks for the Tip about the Dali speaker wire, waiting for someone that
had experience with them.

post #183 of 3437
Quote:


also alot depends on your preamp, I run shindo's most dont know about this product made in japan this preamp is so good that wilson is now going to use these preamps with their max's they were so impressed with them at their shows that they orderd them.

Little Leo - I listened to the no-frills, lowest model Shindo premp last week, and I know what you mean - I couldn't believe how good it sounded - it sounded as good/better than an excellent Conrad Johnson preamp that costs more than 4 times the cost! I auditioned with an Accuphase amp and H400's and then with the Wilson's you referred to. The Shindo is an outstanding buy.

The Helicons sounded fantastic in this system, and for kicks listened to the Wilson's - that was the best system I ever heard (I'd need to win the Mega-Millions lottery tonight to afford those!). The Wilson's had a better lower end, larger/more detailed soundstage, but again, the cost is in the stratosphere.

I'll check out the Mcintosh you referred to. I'm in the process of looking at CD players and amps to go with the Shindo pre & Helicons. I'm enjoying the "chase" part of this hobby!

Mike
post #184 of 3437
Hello leo

No harm taken. I might take you up on your offer, but I have to
travel for a week or so. And I am in the middle of changing my
system around. Thanks again for the offer.

post #185 of 3437
They are having a big sale on Dali speakers up to 50% off.... http://www.spearitsound.com/dali/dali_home.htm
post #186 of 3437
I am not sure how a certified rep is necessarily better than buying online directly from an manufacturer or retailer. (authorized, of course). I guess it depends on what you consider paying a 'little more'. That's different for everyone I suppose.
If you rule out all components sold ONLY online you are leaving out a large portion of equipment with excellent reviews from owners as well as so-called experts. Not to mention potential savings in the process. Of course it would be foolhardy to do that if no trial period was extended.

If it is available locally from a dealer at a good price, I will buy it without even looking online.
post #187 of 3437
Dali does not support ANY online retailers.
if fact, they are after these fake online sites to be shut down or to remove all of the product. since they do not have any to begin with.
audiophile liquidators, was one such site that offered Meridian, Dali, Martin Logan, Krell etc.
i would never take any chances with my hard earned money.

i would check with them first. they are very helpful.
post #188 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Dali does not support ANY online retailers.
if fact, they are after these fake online sites to be shut down or to remove all of the product. since they do not have any to begin with.
audiophile liquidators, was one such site that offered Meridian, Dali, Martin Logan, Krell etc.
i would never take any chances with my hard earned money.

i would check with them first. they are very helpful.

I was talking n general. Not in reference to Dali specifically. I would never buy anything sold as 'new' from any retailer that was not factory authorized, on or off line. Sorry to digress from the Dali topic.
post #189 of 3437
I checked that site yestereday and they were pretty much sold out of everything. I have my eye on Dali's.

I think its pretty much obvious that buying locally from a certified dealer is definitely better than some internet retailer. If you have a dealer and can afford it then thats the way to go. Theres a lot of stuff though that is hard to find locally for me and I can't afford some things at reg. price. I've done lots of both.
post #190 of 3437
darkar,

Understood on the not being able to afford gear at regular price and logistics of purchase. What I've done in the past is if something is on the net I always check with the parent company and assure they are authorized. I am probably preaching to the choir here.

If it sounds to good to be true, my experience is it's not something I want to take a chance with on any type of purchase. YMMV
post #191 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by little leo View Post

Hey guys,

One of the dali reps were at my dealer the other day, and he even told me that dali (as I already knew before) dose not sell anything online. They are infact in the process of puting juncts, on the sites that state they are selling dali, From what I was told that the sites that do really have them bought over stock from a dealer that was auther to sell them, but went out of buis. So thats what they are selling, but most of the time they just take your money. in fact dali has just raised their prices on speakers, I was waiting for that to happen, since they were just starting to sell here in the states, and they wanted to get them out then raise the price. The 400 helicons go for about 4900 for the pair now

Most of the sites that advertise Dali products like a****liquidator.com and x***liquidator.com do not actually have any inventory at all. Its a story they fabricate to make their illegimate business seem somwhat legimitate.
When a client places an order, they basically call around to find an authorized dealer who will wholesale the product to the a***liquidator.com website for something like cost plus 5 or 10%. Many times the customer never actually sees a product.

95% of authorized dealers do not actually sit on factory sealed $4-10K speakers in their inventory, and instead order on an as needed basis, so these so called massive overstock inventories are BS.

When you buy from this kind of site, you dont know if its B-stock, refurbs, open box, knock offs. Most dealers will work with clients on price to earn their business, within reason of course. Theres really no reason to support these kind of sites.

As far as the Helicons going up in price, they were underpriced upon their most release in the US to gain signficant market share. Now they are at a more realistic price. So the early adopters scored an extra good deal.
post #192 of 3437
Out of curiousity are any of you using port blockers on your Dalis?

I find it interesting that they dont come with them. The Helicons can be bass heavy in some rooms, and these could definately help.
post #193 of 3437
I have my Helicon's plugged on one port with a piece of cloth, one port per speaker.

Does anyone know where you can purchase after market port blockers? I did a Google search and I think I am losing my Goggle touch as I could not find any sites that offered them.

AA. What are the MSRP's on the Helicon series now?

Thank you,
Charles
post #194 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by little leo View Post

Hey guys,

One of the dali reps were at my dealer the other day, and he even told me that dali (as I already knew before) dose not sell anything online. They are infact in the process of puting juncts, on the sites that state they are selling dali, From what I was told that the sites that do really have them bought over stock from a dealer that was auther to sell them, but went out of buis. So thats what they are selling, but most of the time they just take your money. in fact dali has just raised their prices on speakers, I was waiting for that to happen, since they were just starting to sell here in the states, and they wanted to get them out then raise the price. The 400 helicons go for about 4900 for the pair now

As an authorized Dali dealer since 2003, I am appalled by price increases from any manufacturer as much as you. I feel the need to correct you though.

Dali did not raise their prices because. "they were just starting to sell here in the states, and they wanted to get them out then raise the price".

Actually, Dali has been selling quite well here in the States since before we became a Dali dealer in 2003. Perhaps the Dali name has only recently become known here on AVS Forum?

As for the price increases, there are numerous reasons. Dali's cost on raw materials for the curved cabinets has nearly doubled. This increases costs considerably on Euphonia, Helicon, and Mentor models. Also, the US Dollar is weak compared to the Danish Krone.

Dali's cost on the premium and expensive ALPI finish (optional on the Euphonia Series) has recently doubled, yet the Euphonia series has had an across the board price CUT for 2007.

There have been year plus periods where Dali has eaten losses due to the devalued US Dollar. While I hate prices increases as much as everyone else here, I must say that Dali is one of the most fair companies when it comes to pricing their products and they resist price increases for as long as possible.

The entire Dali brand is synonymous for it's high value and high performance: price ratio. If you want high quality US made products or high quality loudspeakers, made in Denmark, you simply have to pay more than the mass produced stuff coming out of China. In return, you get a lot more for your money.

Regards,

Anthony Ciaburri
Audio Dynamics Div.
Wallingford, CT

Authorized DALI Dealer - Authorized Dali Megaline Consultants and Dealership
post #195 of 3437
Also petroleum (oil) has doubled in price in the past 4 years. That has one of the biggest influences on prices in the AV industry. Companies use petroleum-based products for packaging, promotional material, and just day to day operations of a company. Pretty much all AV manufacturers experienced a price increase within the past 1-2 years. This includes, but not limited to.

Dali
Arcam
Bryston
Paradigm
Thiel
Dynaudio
Focal

Other companies have simply outsourced their production to China to combat increasing prices. Build quality and reliability suffers as a result.
post #196 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

Other companies have simply outsourced their production to China, etc. to combat increasing prices. Build quality and reliability suffers as a result.

Is that an assumption on your part or do you have data to prove it?
post #197 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by videoaddikt View Post

Is that an assumption on your part or do you have data to prove it?

That IS the reason companies outsource to China. Its not because quality is better there. Its because they use cheap labor to keep prices down. That is FACT.
post #198 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

That IS the reason companies outsource to China. Its not because quality is better there. Its because they use cheap labor to keep prices down. That is FACT.

That is different than your previous statement and one I can certainly agree with.

Keeping prices lower via lower wages, does not have to be synonymous with lower quality. Unfortunately it often is, but that is a management decision, not one decided by the country of origin. That is also a fact.
Wages LOWER THAN THE AVERAGE WAGE in any given country could certainly be detrimental to quality, including North America.
post #199 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by videoaddikt View Post

That is different than your previous statement and one I can certainly agree with.

Keeping prices lower via lower wages, does not have to be synonymous with lower quality. Unfortunately it often is, but that is a management decision, not one decided by the country of origin. That is also a fact.
Wages LOWER THAN THE AVERAGE WAGE in any given country could certainly be detrimental to quality, including North America.

Maybe I was too general in my first statement, but have since clarified.

You are absolutely right about wages; it is not exclusive to any one country. Unfortunately labor exploitation in the manufacturing sector is more prevalent in China, Taiwan, etc largely because of the governments.

Quality people "tend" to request and work for more money, again not exclusive to one country.
post #200 of 3437
On a different note. Whos using Euphonias here?

Interested in some feedback on the MS-5's.

Going to be bringing a pair of these very soon, and would love some firsthand opinions on these?
post #201 of 3437
Hi to all from down under.

Yes I have the Dali Euhonia's in Alpi Rouge, MS5's x 2, CS4, AS2 and RS3's x 4.

The build quality and finish in the Alpi Rouge is just a sight to behold and I have been so pleased with the performance for both music and movies, that I will never let these go.

I am running a 7.1 system and using Parasound Halos, A21 and A51 and an AVM-30 and I must say that everyone is blown away and they never want to leave.

I still have a long way to go breaking these in, and much to do with respect to the room treatments, but I couldn't be happier with my purchase.

You can check them out here:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot.../24518/cat/506

Also included are pics of my 1.85 to 2.35 electric masking system using a remote garage motor for anyone that's interested.

Please feel free to ask any questions, and I can post close ups if anyone is interested.

Cheers Andrew....
post #202 of 3437
Very nice Euphonias!

Just as a friendly FYI for all of you. I had an amplifier shoot out with our new Halcro Logic class D stuff versus some traditional Parasound Halo, Bryston, and Simaudio amps.

The BEST I have ever heard our Helicon 400s has been on the new Halcro stuff. Absolutely stunning! Gone was some of the midbass bloom I had been hearing with the other amps. I urge all you Dali owners to find a dealer and check these bad boys out. Im also bringing in some Bel Canto Ref1000s in a couple days, I will post some comparisons between the too. The Halcro uses a proprietary class D technology called LYRUS so its likely different than all other class D amps right now.

Our Dynaudios interestingly sounded much better with Bryston and Simaudio, but the Dalis and Focals LOVE the Halcro stuff.
post #203 of 3437
Nice to find this thread. I have a 5.1 Dali Hellicon system: 800's for the fronts, W200's for the surrounds, and a C200 for the center. Love the detailed, but not strained, sound.

I am using a Velodyne DD-15 for the .1 sub.

And the whole thing is being driven by a Gemstone BlueDiamond power amp, with an Anthem AVM-30 pre-pro. Everything sounds wonderful as a system -- in either 5.1 mode for TV/movies (and SACD's or DVD-A's) or 2.0 for CDs.

I can't recommend the Dali Hellicon's highly enough.
post #204 of 3437
I'm snooping around for speakers to replace old ones from 1985 (they're actually still going pretty strongly-- Advent 6003 mini-towers). I can't timbre match using those, of course!

Would anyone hazard a guess as to a comparison with av123 Rocket's or Reference's or Strata's with a particular Dali line (similar, worse, better)? I'm trying to get a base line of reference.

I do think the Dali's are ones to consider, though, in my search.

As I've been reading through this thread there have been numerous mentions of boutique brand speaker wires. I would suggest doing DIY cables with Belden 10 gauge speaker cable from bluejeanscable.com, getting some mesh jacketing (for looks), heat shrink tubing, and terminators of your choice. For about 1/3 or even 1/10th (compared to some hugely expensive stuff) the price you'd have thick, quality speaker cable that would do the trick and not look half bad. A lot of these cables are pure and simple snake oil at obscene prices.

Dan
post #205 of 3437
Can't go wrong with BJC. Good quality at fair prices and great service.
post #206 of 3437
Wanting to upgrade from B&W 603 I went to the local dali dealer to hear Ikon 6 after having read some apprisals for it. To my surprise the dealer declared that the Suite sound much better for him and that he doesnt sell Ikons. The Suite 2.8 sounded very good but how it stands in respect to the other Dali families? Please advice before I have done something stupid.
post #207 of 3437
the suites certainly look better but as to sound better? i dont think so in my opinion. the ikon 6's won speaker of the year from the absolute sound for a reason.
post #208 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by mihaeli View Post

Wanting to upgrade from B&W 603 I went to the local dali dealer to hear Ikon 6 after having read some apprisals for it. To my surprise the dealer declared that the Suite sound much better for him and that he doesnt sell Ikons. The Suite 2.8 sounded very good but how it stands in respect to the other Dali families? Please advice before I have done something stupid.

My dealer has both. I was planning on Suite 2.8 because I had heard them and thought they sounded very good, and because they are so beautiful and somewhat cheaper than Ikon. Then I heard the Ikons and was blown away.

The biggest difference is in the high end, where the ribbon tweeter is clear and crisp and to my ear provides much more presence. After the Ikon 6s, the Suites sounded muddied.

I think in a room with hardwood floors, some people might prefer the Suites, but in a room with moderate sound absorption my strong preference is the Ikons. I even bough Ikon on-walls for my hardwood-floor kitchen/dining/living area (the big ones are in the theater downstairs).

You should listen to them if you can, but to me there's no question. It makes sense, too--you're paying for more speaker and less beatiful woodwork. Make sure they're not toed-in when you listen to them or you'll get a peak of treble (within 1-2 degress of direct) due to the tweeter design. Maybe that's why your dealer doesn't care for them. They are intended to fill the room, rather than bombard the listener.
post #209 of 3437
I demo'd the Ikon 6 loudspeakers, the new B&W 603s as well as Aperion 533T/633T. I agree with the previous poster, the accuracy and dimensionality of the Ikon 6 is unparalleled in its price class. Compared to these Danish speakers, the B&Ws and Aperion 633s that I'd been considering sounded lumbering, confused and muddy.

-----
Dali Ikon 6 loudspeakers
Dali Vokal 1 Center
Aperion Intimus 532-LR Surrounds
Aperion Intimus S8-APR Sub
Arcam 280 AVR Receiver
post #210 of 3437
I was convinced that Ikon 6 are better choice after listening again at another dealer. I wonder now whether the Vocal Center is a match for the Ikon?? The specifications show that the Ikon 6 has low frequency driver of 6 1/2'' while Vocal 2 has 5'' while Vocal 1 - 4''. This should naturally ensure mismatch between the Fronts and the Center. Please advice.
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