Dali speakers - Page 9

Wow! I did not realize that at all. What are the changes incorporated into the Helicon 400mkII. That is a pretty large price jump...

FYI
There's a great article (& review) on DALI speakers in the Oct 2007 issue of Widescreen Review authored by the owner of the magazine, Gary Reber.

Nice review of the Euphonia M5s.

Does anyone actually own the Ikon 6 with matching center and surround speakers?

Do they need a very powerful amp?

Curious how they compare to the RBH-TK series?

I have IKON 6 fronts, IKON Vokal 2 center, and a pair of IKON On-walls (plus a non-Dali powered sub) in my 5.1 settup. I'm not sure what you consider "very powerful". My amp is a Yamaha rx-v3800 with 140wpc, 980w total power, and it's more than enough for my movie watching, Halo playing, and music.

Before the 3800 came, the Dalis sounded very good with my 10 year old RX-V595 at 70wpc x5 but loud, complex passages seem to be more detailed with the 3800.

Dali recommends 25-150wpc for the 6 & Vokal 2, and 25-100 for the On-Walls.

Shane

From what the reps tell me its purely cosmetic. The front baffle will be similar in looks to the Euphonia line. The gloss veneer is supposed to be even glossier. Im hoping they offer a piano black option as well. They are supposed to be shipping mid October.

What do you guys think of using 3 Euphonia RS3's for my front channels? I have to do inwalls or onwalls.

Thank you for the feedback.

I currently have a Marantz 4001 (7x80w)which I eventually plan on upgrading, but that will depend on how much money I end up spending on my speakers

Right now, I want to compare:

1) Ikon 6 system
2) RBH TK Series
3) Kef IQ
4) Axiom 50/60
5) Klipsch Reference

Any thoughts on that?

I have a question please. I'm very familiar with Helicon 800s and the matching C200 Helicon center, but I've never heard any other Dalis since we've been unable to find a local dealer who actually has anything in stock (most are custom installers that don't have a listening room). I know they have several lower lines like the Ikons and Mentors, etc. Can anyone tell me which line(s), if any, would sound identical to the Helicons or at least very close, but for less money, say with a lesser cabinet and finish than the beautiful Helicons? In other words, a few of the lines appear to use the same drivers including the dual dome/ribbon tweeter arrangement but in a plainer cabinet. I just have no way of knowing if they really are the same drivers or if the crossovers and whatnot are equal in quality. Any info would be appreciated.

the difference between the helicon and the helicon version 2 is not just cosmetic. they have a new crossover and a new magnet structure on the drivers.

I just found a showroom around here that features all of the Dali speakers. The guy sounded nice on the phone.

I can't wait to listen to the IKONs 6 and start my comparison quest.

Really? Around where? Not northeastern US, I'm sure...

in Los Angeles.

I am considering a pair of Helicon 400's with the new Mentor Center Channel. I have a 7 channel Amp and a 5.1 setup so I am thinking I will Bi-Amp the Helicons with the two extra channels; that will provide 600 watts to them at 4 ohms. What are you guys using for Bi-Amping Speaker Cables with the Helicons? Thanks for the help.

Actually, I'm not sure what your amp can output, but bi-amping does not effectively double the power going to your speaker, rather, bi-amping supplies the same power except into each the bass and tweeter segments. The speaker as a whole is still seeing the original power, not double the original power.

Here is what I use. Nice people to deal with.

http://store.haveinc.com/Ebus30/Part...mmodity=CAA148

Ok, that makes sense. Thank you! I am running an Emotiva MPS-1 which is 200 wats at 8 ohm and 300 at 4 ohm. So Bi-Amping I would be running 300 to each speaker.

Do you have any recs for cables?

Hang on. Let's be clear -- there's arguably no advantage to bi-WIRING as it does nothing except double the effective gauge of the wires. If you're already using 14 or 12 gauge, you'll never hear the difference.

Bi-AMPING might not truly double the power to your speakers but there is an advantage. It gives you extra headroom because assuming you're running say, 300 watts/channel @ 4 ohm amp channels (x 4, 2 per speaker), you'll now have a full 300 watts available to each bass section and another full 300 watts/channel available to each tweeter section, rather than one 300 watt channel having to cover both. While the tweeters will almost definitely never need that kind of power, bass can suck up power on transients so separating the two can reduce potential distortion and allow the speakers to play more cleanly at higher volumes.

As for wiring, nothing special is required. Just run two sets of oxygen free copper wiring, 14 gauge or better yet 12, and you'll be fine.

Note also that the IKON 6s are 6 ohm speakers, so your receiver will actually drive them at a higher wattage (assuming the 7x80w is at 8 ohms) as long as it can handle the lower impedance.

einstein is right about bi-amping (and about the uselessness of bi-wiring). Some people think the "oxygen-free" cables are just expensive snake oil, though. I'd be very interested in seeing (or hearing) a controlled study that showed any advantage over regular old 12G lamp wire.

While that is possible it depends on the speaker of course. Tweeters almost never need to use much power at all. So it may be something like the woofer seeing 250 watts of power with the tweeter using 50 watts vs. the woofer seeing 300 watts and the tweeter seeing 300 watts. These are hypothetical numbers, but the difference between 250 watts and 300 watts is not that much added headroom for the woofer.

I think the real benefit to biamplification is when you disconnect the internal passive crossover and utilize an external active crossover along with the two amps.

In my experience, the tweeter uses so little power that the woofer does not gain much headroom in a passive bi-amplified setup. Your experience could be different, however, and I don't doubt the possibility of a speaker existing that would benefit more for a passive bi-amplified setup.

I have, however, noticed an increase in headroom when supplying 1 amp, but with double the power (as you might expect). Bridging an amp also yields a similar result at the expense of the distortion from both channels adding together (usually not a problem for the amps I have used). If the amp has decent distortion figures, I would bridge two channels together if I had that option rather than bi-amplification of the speakers (unless an external active crossover was used).

The closest will be the mentor line. When you get a chance listen to them. In my opinion they are very close to the Helicon series.

Helicons are much more pleasing to the eye!

Thank you for the warning. I just checked my 4001 manial, and seems to be fine with 6 ohm speakers.

One thing that intrigues me however, it seems to be saying that while the unit is 7x80W at 8ohm it is 7x105W at 6ohm.

Is that because 6 ohm speakers offer less resistance?

Also, in the case of a HT setup, is it bad to "mix and match" 6 ohm and 8 ohm speakers? After taking a closer look at the IKON serie, it seems the VOKAL and the On Wall speakers are all 8 ohms?

Finally, do you own a pair of IKONs? How happy are you with them? Any flaws? could you have had better for the money?

einsteinjb, I 100% agree with evivbulgroz. I recently auditioned the Helicon 300 and Mentor equivalent side by side. The Mentor is a fine speaker, but the Helicon is a little more detailed and infinitely more beautiful. With the Helicons on closeout, you might be able to pick up the Helicons at about the same price as the Mentors, which makes it a no-brainer.

BTW, I bought the Helicons.

By "oxygen-free" I didn't mean "expensive." Your basic lamp cord or zip cord from Home Depot, Parts Express, etc. can easily be found labeled "oxygen-free" for pennies/foot.

Thanks for your reply! The Helicons are gorgeous but world-class finishes aren't really my #1 priority. I just wanted to know what else I might look at in the future when the budget is a bit fatter (and my listening room is a LOT bigger) that might give me that Helicon sound.

Speaking of Helicons, if I may, I just posted this in the Marketplace area if anyone's looking for a set in the Philly area:

http://marketplace.avsforum.com/show...duct=352&cat=5

Ah, if I had the money and space for Helicons I'd own my buddy Mike's pair that we have up for sale! Someday...

We agree again, then.

Yes, I have IKON 6 for fronts, IKON Vokal 2 for center, and IKON On-walls for rear. They sound great in my HT. They're designed to be used together, and my receiver doesn't have any problem with the different impedances.

Also, yes, you get higher wattage due to the lower impedance.

With all the many models in Dali's lineup I don't know where to begin. I suspect given my budget I will easily settle into 2-3 lines. I am heading to a dealer this weekend to audition Dalis and would like some input on what to look for.

Currently my favorites are the B&W 683 and Monitor Audio RS6. These are $1400 and $900 respectively (making a compelling argument for the MAs). I was in the Dali delaer once before and they were actually the very first speakers I tried but I have no idea which line - I think something in the Ikon line, bookshelf model and I was not impressed. Now that I have a couple real contenders I am going back with a firmer price in mind and also a reference for comparison in both price and sound.

These speakers are for a music only system and I'd like to a) keep the main speakers under $2000 and b) have another nicely matched set of bookshelves in a nearby room where there is a lot of sound overlap (more casual listening so I 'd like to keep the price down on this pair). It sounds like the Ikon 6 is the place to start. What about the Suites? It sounds like those are targeted mainly at HT use and there is no matching bookshelf. Anything else I should consider?