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Dali speakers - Page 100

post #2971 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceOmega View Post

I also posted in the Monitor Audio thread-

Has anyone had a chance to compare Dali Ikon II speakers to Monitor Audio Silver speakers? I am particularly interested in impressions of how the Ikon 6's compare to the RX6's.

Thanks
Bruce
Im not an owner of either speaker, I own Dynaudios, but I like both brands youre interested in, and will give you my opinion. Ive compared the Ikon 7s to the RS6 in the same room, I have also heard the RX6s.I would say if you listen to mostly rock music the RXs might be slightly better with that type of music, but will do very well with all types of music also. If you listen to more jazz or classical, I think the Ikons will present the music with more space and air. The RXs highs and mids are good, and the sound is much smoother over the older RSs, however the RXs still might be just shy of what the Ikons will produce. The bass on the Ikon 7s were better then the RS/RX6s, and IMO, I would expect the Ikon 6s bass would be at least as good as the RXs. The Ikons IMO are a little more revealing in terms of poor recordings. If this will eventually be used for HT I would say that both should do great for HT. I have not however heard either center channel.
Edited by callas01 - 2/16/13 at 10:35pm
post #2972 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post

Im not an owner of either speaker, I own Dynaudios, but I like both brands youre interested in, and will give you my opinion. Ive compared the Ikon 7s to the RS6 in the same room, I have also heard the RX6s.I would say if you listen to mostly rock music the RXs might be slightly better with that type of music, but will do very well with all types of music also. If you listen to more jazz or classical, I think the Ikons will present the music with more space and air. The RXs highs and mids are good, and the sound is much smoother over the older RSs, however the RXs still might be just shy of what the Ikons will produce. The bass on the Ikon 7s were better then the RS/RX6s, and IMO, I would expect the Ikon 6s bass would be at least as good as the RXs. The Ikons IMO are a little more revealing in terms of poor recordings. If this will eventually be used for HT I would say that both should do great for HT. I have not however heard either center channel.

Thanks for the feedback, especially actual / projected comparison of bass performance. For some reason, I was thinking the RX6's would have better bass than Ikon 6's. The intended use is in a 5.0 surround system as part of a (non-dedicated) HT in a combined kitchen - family room, and I will be buying the matching center as well. I prefer listening in surround independent of the source or whether there is accompanying video.

Bruce
post #2973 of 3437
Has anyone used the Mentor 2's for surround duty? Thinking of adding 2 pair for 11.1 rear surround to my Helicons. The Mentor 2 run 2,800 a pair, the 300 MKII's are at $4k. Rather spend 4800 instead of $8k for 2 pairs of surrounds.
Edited by Dr_Mark - 3/25/13 at 9:26am
post #2974 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

Has anyone used the Mentor 2's for surround duty? Thinking of adding 2 pair for 11.1 rear surround to my Helicons. The Mentor 2 run 2,400 a pair, the 300 MKII's are at $4k. Rather spend 4800 instead of $8k for 2 pairs of surrounds.

FWIW, I don't have Mentors, but I have Mk I Helicon 400's and Helicon Center for the front three speakers while using Mk I Ikon's as surrounds in a 7.1 system: Ikon On-Walls for side surrounds and Ikon 2's for rear surrounds. When I had my TV professionally calibrated, he also fine tuned the audio and specifically commented that the Ikons were a good timbre match with the Helicon's. Being in the same "family" and a step up from Ikons, my guess is Mentor's would be even better.

Bruce
post #2975 of 3437
I've been keeping an eye on Audiogon for some Helicon 300 MK1's in Cherry. I figure if I have the cash and see a pair, will grab them instead of the Mentors.
post #2976 of 3437
I am looking for replacement tweeter module for Ikon 1 mk1 speaker. Dali is charging almost $300.00 for the module. Are there any cheaper alternatives? Are there any ribbon only modules that will match the original ribbon module in Ikon speakers that I can replace with?
post #2977 of 3437
^
Replacement parts thru Dali are quite pricey.
I googled and found this ebay supplier with a pair of tweet modules for $96 plus shipping, covered by ebay buyer protection and apparently well-rated:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-New-Pair-DALI-IKON-1-Hybrid-Tweeter-Ribbon-Soft-Dome-/380591142746?pt=US_Speaker_Parts_Components&hash=item589cfff75a
post #2978 of 3437
Thanks. That's exactly what I did. Bought a pair from that seller.
post #2979 of 3437
^It's really a helluva deal if it's all legit. Good luck.
post #2980 of 3437
Hi I had Dali helicon speakers for 5 years then I sold them to someone in Australia. I have had lots of different speaker’s since then but did not like them. So I have gone back to Dali helicon speakers but I don’t like the colour so I am going to get them painted. I am going to do them Black magic pearl. Here are some pictures I will send some more when they are finished. I got them for a bargain
post #2981 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by nucky View Post

Hi I had Dali helicon speakers for 5 years then I sold them to someone in Australia. I have had lots of different speaker’s since then but did not like them. So I have gone back to Dali helicon speakers but I don’t like the colour so I am going to get them painted. I am going to do them Black magic pearl. Here are some pictures I will send some more when they are finished. I got them for a bargain

That's pretty cool, looking forward on seeing the finish product....There's another member that did the same, but to the center, and the rear speakers..The the fronts were the 30 Anniversary version which came in black.


Good luck

Djoel
post #2982 of 3437
I posted this as it's own thread before I found the Dali owners thread... Figured I'd get a better response from Dali owners.

So I came across a great deal on some mint used Dali ikon 6 mk2 speakers. Due to my room size I was originally looking at the Dali ikon 2 mk2 bookshelf speakers since those would probably get the job done. However, I'm not living in this apartment forever and the ikon 6 price was too good to pass up (~50% off from new) and as you can see I have horrible stands.

My current trial set up is a Yamaha rv-473, PSB B5's and C5. The PSB's have a great sound but the are very precise in their imaging sweet spot and they just don't disappear when listening to them. They also don't have the bass response I'm looking for either. So I've decided to return the speakers and go for a 2.0 set up with the Dali's. If I run across the Vocal 2 mk2 at a good price, I'll completely go for overkill and pick that up.

Anyway, thought's on speaker placement for the Dali ikon 6's. The picture is taken at the main viewing spot ~11 feet away. I'm wondering if the design of that wall is going to make for an overly boomy bass experience. I have thought about reversing the room and placing the couch where the tv currently is now. That would allow for the speakers to be placed farther apart and not tucked in two corners, however, one speaker would have a back wall to reflect against the other wouldn't.

I have tried a few baby subwoofers as well. Though none I have tried are suitable for an apartment.

post #2983 of 3437
That’s them just about ready to get primered. Not be long now
post #2984 of 3437
That’s the speakers finished. He has done an incredible job. Here are some more pictures I will take some more when I put all the drivers back in smile.gif
post #2985 of 3437
I am in the process of deciding between Aerial 9 speakers powered with a Bryston 4BSST2 (dealer 1) or Dali Epicon 6 speakers powered with a Naim Superuniti (dealer 2).

The room in which the system will be used is 15' x 30' x 11'.

I have heard the Aerial speakers driven by the Bryston, but cannot hear the Dail speakers driven by the Superuniti. Dealer 2 has the Dalis powered by a Levinson amp.

Can anyone give me feedback as to whether the Superuniti has the power/specs to effectively to drive the Epicon 6 speakers? The power difference between the 4BSST2 and the Superuniti seems worlds apart (yes, I do not know a great deal about amps), however, dealer 2 is telling me that the Superuniti will have no problem driving the Epicon 6s.
post #2986 of 3437
^Nice! They will be beautiful and one-of-a-kind.
post #2987 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswego0522 View Post

I am in the process of deciding between Aerial 9 speakers powered with a Bryston 4BSST2 (dealer 1) or Dali Epicon 6 speakers powered with a Naim Superuniti (dealer 2).

The room in which the system will be used is 15' x 30' x 11'.

I have heard the Aerial speakers driven by the Bryston, but cannot hear the Dail speakers driven by the Superuniti. Dealer 2 has the Dalis powered by a Levinson amp.

Can anyone give me feedback as to whether the Superuniti has the power/specs to effectively to drive the Epicon 6 speakers? The power difference between the 4BSST2 and the Superuniti seems worlds apart (yes, I do not know a great deal about amps), however, dealer 2 is telling me that the Superuniti will have no problem driving the Epicon 6s.

Hi, welcome. The Epis should sound fab from what I've read. I have no experience with Naim but if you provide a link or specific model #, we can look at the specs. But that can't tell you how it'll sound. AFAIC buying hi-end audio from a local dealer should assure the purchaser of at least one thing: you get to listen to the gear in your home and if you're not satisfied, they'll exchange it for something that you like or refund the amp price. You also needn't necessarily bundle amp with speakers.

These Dali speakers are fairly easy to drive at moderate volumes, but IME are not easy to drive loud because of the combination of low ohms and low sensitivity. As you have a large space and assuming no powered sub, the amp has to have sufficient reserve capacity for transient peaks in the low freqs. With a powered sub to handle the challenging below-80 freqs, I'd have far less concern.
post #2988 of 3437
Thanks, SoundofMind, for your response.

The dealer will allow me to change the system configuration, if I am not satisfied, but will not give me a refund.

The Bryston 4BSST2 is rated at 300 watts per channel at 8 omhs. Either the Naim Superuniti (an all-in-one device) or the Naim NAP 250 amp are rated at 80 watts per channel at 8 ohms. The dealer is telling me that watts mean nothing and that the Naim 250 amp generates 300 VA transient, while the 4BBST2 only generates 240VA transient. He goes on to say that VA transient is more important than watts.

I have not been able to confirm the VA transient stat for the 4BSST2 as of yet and I have no idea if the dealer is just blowing smoke my way in saying that VA transient is more important than watts when driving a speaker???

This system will be a music only setup.
post #2989 of 3437
The first hit I got when googling VA transient:
http://forums.naimaudio.com/displayForumTopic/content/1566878606204587
and then there are several more, all connected to Naim. It is apparently not a standard audiophile or industry term, but I am no expert in amps. I think it is their way to quantify how good their amp is at handling the transient peaks. IMO the two qualities that set some amps above others is the ability to stay audibly distortion-free with a very fast response time (attack slope) and to the manage transient peaks (especially highly power-demanding bass) cleanly. Their VA term seems to apply to the latter.

I'll briefly summarize my limited experience of Dalis with some different amps in case it may be of value to you. I have my combo music/HT set-up in a16’X22’ family room with 8’ walls arching to / vaulted 12’ceiling (3500 cu’) family room, no formal acoustic treatments, natively producing lumpy bass FR. When I had the Heli 400s (the 2 way tower model a step down from Euphonis) as FR/L I first hooked them up to the internal amps in a Denon AVR4310 that I had at the time. hose amps were rated by Denon to operate 6 to 16 ohms. Though I wa running subs, the SQ audibly dropped off as I approached reference levels. This was easily solved by purchasing an Emotiva XPA5 external amp. It was cleaner and more dynamic at high volumes. That Emo amp has a reputation for being a quite good amp considering its "bargain" price <$1K (for ex., see Kal Rubinson's review in Stereophile).

When I replaced the 4310 with a 4311 for better DSP, I noted that the amps were rated by Denon down to 4 ohms so just for fun I once tested the FR/L Heli 400s in stereo (full range with no subs) vs the Emo. The 4311 did not poop out at volume like the 4310 and sounded pretty close to the Emo. BTW I kept the Emo in the system and returned to my usual practice running the speakers as "Small" with my high-quality Velodyne subs and sophisticated bass management in the AVR. I also use the Audyssey DSP room correction (Audyssey XT32 with Pro kit calibration) in the AVR as it tames the bass peaks and dips and overall improved SQ (again consistent with Kal's reports on XT32 and Pro) but that's not relevant to our conversation.

Then I replaced the Helis with Euphonia MS4s (basically the flagship 2 way tower model the Epi 6 replaces) and the SQ was significantly improved with the more precise speakers.

I then got MS5s and they sounded even better in the mids and lows, cleaner and more dynamic. I had the opprtunity to get a great deal on a used Halcro MC30 Class D amp (MSRP $5K and well respected in the HT community). The improvement in SQ is not huge but is distinct.

The Halcro is cleaner overall, and the transient response is very fast, producing a more detailed, dynamic and overall more life-like experience with the music. IMO that is what you should expect from a pricey audiophile amp driving your Epis.

googling Naim I stumbled onto this thread mentioning a reference to some concern mentioned in a review in Stereophile mag.

And found this nice but superficial review. As long as you can switch out models and brands of amps with the dealer, Naim seems worth a in-house demo.
Edited by SoundofMind - 3/26/13 at 5:16am
post #2990 of 3437
Once again, SoundofMind, thanks for both your advice as well as the research that you did.

I am going back to the Dali showroom tomorrow to listen to the Epicon 6s powered by a Naim Unitilite (only 50 watts per channel). The showroom is roughly 30' x 45', with a 16' ceiling--not the best conditions to audition speakers. If the Naim Unitilite can drive the Epicons well in their showroom, I will accept that as proof that the Superuniti will meet my expectations.

In putting this new system together, i would like to cap my purchases at a certain level. I can either go with a better amp/preamp or I can go with the Naim Superuniti and Unitiserve and get what I hope will be a better than average sound from the Epicons, while also dispensing with the need to get up from my chair to change the music that I want to listen to. Must admit that I love the notion of controlling such things as music selection and volume from my iPad or iPhone.

Again, thanks for your help!
post #2991 of 3437
^You're welcome.
I just searched AVS Search, advanced search, clicked title, entered Naim and there's not much-
here

here

On the Steve Hoffman forums using search-titles only, Naim there are over 40 hits :
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/index.php

Of course you'll get many many more hits on both sites if you don't limit to titles. I have learned that this sort of research before making a purchase is wise.

I plan to eventually move beyond spinning shiny discs to playing digital files but it probably won't be an entirely good thing to not have to get up at all from my recliner! biggrin.gif
Edited by SoundofMind - 3/27/13 at 4:18am
post #2992 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by nucky View Post

That’s the speakers finished. He has done an incredible job. Here are some more pictures I will take some more when I put all the drivers back in smile.gif



That's pretty cool, looking forward on seeing these back together in a HT setting so far they look great.


Djoel
post #2993 of 3437
That’s the speakers finished they look out of this world and sound fantastic very very happy. smile.gifbiggrin.gif:D;)
post #2994 of 3437
eek.gif They look WICKEDLY EVIL biggrin.gif, WOE look at that shine...I'm sure they look even better in person, they fit right in with the decor as well, very nicely done...You should be very proud.

Thanks for sharing

Djoel
post #2995 of 3437
I purchased the Epicon 6 speakers today without going with the Naim components that the dealer suggested. Now the search begins for a good amp and preamp.

I am not looking for perfection, just reliable, clean power that will allow the Epicons to perform as their were designed. My inclination is to go with the Bryston 4B SST2 and the B17. Can anyone share their experience hearing Dali speakers driven by this amp and preamp?

I am also open to hearing about amps/preamps that you believe would work better than Brystons with these speakers.
post #2996 of 3437
I think you are better off not going with the Naim amp(s).
Naim gear is really kind of a closed system that works best with other Naim gear.
It's really good gear that has a fanatically loyal following.
post #2997 of 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswego0522 View Post

I purchased the Epicon 6 speakers today without going with the Naim components that the dealer suggested. Now the search begins for a good amp and preamp.

I am not looking for perfection, just reliable, clean power that will allow the Epicons to perform as their were designed. My inclination is to go with the Bryston 4B SST2 and the B17. Can anyone share their experience hearing Dali speakers driven by this amp and preamp?

I am also open to hearing about amps/preamps that you believe would work better than Brystons with these speakers.
Good move! Having found really good speakers that you like it's reasonable to look around at the upstream options, and there are many. As this thread does not have much traffic, I suggest you start your own thread asking for advice. You could list your approx desired price range.

You could also use the Search feature on this (and other forums.

Stereophile publishes a yearly guide to gear that I find pretty helpful. Kal Rubinson, of Stereophile magazine has reviewed lots of gear and posts on AVS so may be of help to you as well.

One more thing: if you don't have anacoustically treated room you may want to consider some acoustic treatments and/or Digital Signal Processing room correction. I am more familiar with models that are multichannel capable and so are triple-purpose for stereo, MC music and HT like the Marantz pre/pro 8801 that features Audyssey MultEQXT32 DSPRC.
post #2998 of 3437
Thanks for the ongoing feedback.

I ordered the Bryston amp and preamp mentioned above today.

Milt99, the Dali dealer was really pushing the Naims as the end-all, be-all. Yet I could find very little chatter out there about Naim products outside of the Naim forum...could be a great product, but I just felt more comfortable going with Bryston.

Next I have to research dacs and cabling. Because I have limited space...okay, there is a lot of space, but my wife has limited my options...I hope to dispense with a CD player and go with a dac/mac mini combo as a way of playing music. Not sure whether this is possible, but that is the direction I will try.
post #2999 of 3437
Let me know if you still need a current priceless or any other info on Dali's US models, etc...
post #3000 of 3437
I am considering purchasing an Oppo BDP 105 CD player, which is reputed to have an excellent internal dac, and connecting a NAS drive to it using a USB port. For the time being, this would make up my only music sources.

Would such a music source setup be at par with the Epicon 6 speakers and Bryston amp/preamp (4B SST2, B17) that I just purchased?

I know there are better equipment options, however, I am looking for an effective music source solution that will not be too expensive. Down the road, I can always upgrade.
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