Dali speakers - Page 4

Actually, I would think volume to be more important variable.

The room has a vaulted ceiling, and thus has a volume of ~ 120 Meter^3.
Using area dimensions it might be a bit small by the 40 m^2 recommendation.
I am planning to run a test CD and see how they measure in the room.

As far as I can tell the differences between the 4 and 5's are:

The 4's have a 2 x 6.5" wooferes, and one of them does double duty as a midrange.
THe 4's are ported for 31.5 Hz

The 5's have a 6 1/2" midrange, and 2x8" woofers.
The 5's are ported for 24 Hz.

So arguably the differences are bass extension, and mid-range clarity.

The Tweeter sections are identical.


FWIW: Dali also recommends bi-wiring the speakers at a minimum, and preferably passively bi-amping them. Both recommendations lacking sound empirical support.

In essence, I would have prefered to put them in on of several larger spaces I have, but I WAF factor, and each of use prevailed. Eventailly, I plan to use them in a theater that will likely be ~63 sq meters in area or 150 Cubic meters in vloume.

Got to go.

I measured the in-room freq response. I measured the standard tones up to 2000Hz. Used a RS analog meter at the listening position. I plotted the corrected as well as uncorrected measurements. I had trouble getting the axis right. The baseline was 80 db.
Measurements ere at 20, 25, 31,40, 50, 63, 80, 100, 125, 160, 200, and 2000 Hz.

Okay, so this is almost a year late, but I heard the Suite 1.7 and 2.8 series last weekend and was very impressed by both their sound and visual beauty. The higher end speakers are great but frankly I don't have ten grand to spend on my speakers and I don't need Kubrickian monoliths to fill my 14x20 media room with soundwaves.

I've listened to a lot of speakers in their price range and I'm going to buy a 2.8 setup. The 1.7 line lists at around $2100 for a 5.0 setup and the 2.8 at around $2700. I didn't hear the Suite S1.2 sub, but I don't need a new sub anyway.

I'm planning to drive these with a Yamaha RX-V2700, one of the few receivers under $2000 that will drive 4-ohm speakers, as far as I can find. I realize that'll leave some room for upgrade on the amp side in the future. FWIW, I don't plan to bi-wire them as frankly I'm dubious about the benefits and I don't have room for all that wire in my wire channels (receiver is in a closet in the back of the room). I suppose bi-amping could improve the sound but the amp budget would probably be better spent on better amps rather than simply more.

I have been scouring for some quality Dali info/feedback for some time - It's great to find you guys - my first post(!)

I am looking to get (v. soon!) a Dali 5.1 set-up including Vokal 2 centre and IKON On-Wall rears.

I am unsure to go with IKON 6 or 7 for the front main pair.
Is room size a big consideration on choice? (The room is approx 12' x 10')
Does one tend to integrate better with its partners than the other?

For hi-fi I will tend towards using just the IKON 6 or 7 - i.e. not including the SW - hence i want good, fast, bass but not overly strong or overpowering. The importance is balanced / natural sound.

On another note - any opinions on the IKON active SW? I am considering omitting this and going for a velodyne SPL-800R.

Any thoughts/opinons.............

Hi,

We have been a DALI dealer since 2003. We've spent quite a bit of time with both the Ikon 6's and 7's. While both the Ikon 6's and 7's are magnificent, especially at this price, there is only one choice for your room.

In a 12' by 10' room the Ikon 7's will overload the room with bass. If your room were 15' by 20', the 7's would provide a natural balance and would be the better choice.

In a 12' by 10' room, the Ikon 6 will be a perfect fit.

Your local Dali dealer should agree. If not, tell them a DALI expert taught you otherwise.

You'll be very happy with the Ikon 6's! Allow 400-500 hours of rigorous break in time and your Dali's will really surprise you.

PolzyB,

For a subwoofer, I opted for a Velodyne DD-12. My room is about 13' x 17' x 9.5'. I'm in a townhouse and the DD-12 is more than adequate for my needs. My dealer thought Velodyne was a better choice than Dali, and I wanted subwoofer EQ.

Each person has their own preferences. I listened for awhile in stereo with the Helicon 400s during the period I was installing the full set of surround speakers, and the Dalis were very good in stereo. However, once I got the full system up and running, I started listening to everything in 7.1 independent of source.

Thanks
Bruce

Thanks AudioDynamics / Bruce - advice appreciated!

The Dali sub looks huge and velodyne spl SW's get a good response - I am really looking forward to to testing them......

Concerning the IKON 7's if I increased the impedance on the cable interconnects would this resolve the 'too much bass' symptom? I am pretty convinced on the Dali choice but the room is actually 13' x 12.5' (my previous statement was a guestimate!) - which still confirms the pref choice of IKON 6's.

However, if in the future I move into a larger room it would be nice to have the option of knowing that the IKON 7's will do their job. Obv the first priority, though, is getting the best sound in the room it is to be used in. What are your thoughts on this AudioDynamics/anyone?

Lastly, anyone recommend cables/interconnects for Dali IKONS (5.1)? Looking at a sensible price here - NOT the cheapest, but nothing silly. I will be pairing them with an Arcam DIVA avr350 amp and bi-wiring the fronts. (poss bi-amping too!)

Muchos appreciatos,
PolzyB

The Ikon 7's were designed for slightly larger rooms or rooms with bass suckout, such as rooms which are always open to other areas of the home. In a setting for which they are designed to operate, the Ikon 7's do not have "too much bass".

Of course, you can always purchase Ikon 7's and set the fronts as "small" in your pre/pro. But that defeats the purpose for which the 7's and 6's are designed, to be full range loudspeakers.

You definitely do not want to use high impedance speaker cables in an attempt to attenuate the bass!

First: This would affect more than just the bass frequencies and would most likely be detrimental to the overall sound quality of your system. The same applies for interconnects.

Second: High impedance speaker cables would potentially put a strain on your amplifier by presenting it with a more difficult load.




You never want to base your purchase decisions on What If. If you do so, you may find you are unhappy with your purchase. The Ikon 6 is the best choice for the room you are now using. If at a later time you move your system into a larger space, the Ikon 6 will still sound great. Considering the very modest MSRP, you can always purchase Ikon 7's for the new room and move the 6's into a secondary system.




We find that Siltech Cables synergize very well with the Dali's. Then again, Siltech Cables integrate well with any speaker system, regardless of the electronics. The most reasonably priced Siltech Series are the MXT Professional Series. The MXT NEW YORK's provide stunning detail and dynamics with the Ikon 6's. I offer this advice as a dealer who has represented both product lines for several years. We have represented several speaker and cable manufacturers over the years and I can state with confidence, you will be pleased with the synergy between DALI and Siltech.

Of course, you will want to try different cables at home, in your system and decide for yourself. Then you can choose which cables suit your taste. If your local dealer is unable to provide this service, (allowing you to try the cables at home) then you definitely won't go wrong with the Siltech New York.


After you purchase your Ikon 6's, please feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to help you find the best location in your room for the Ikon's. By no means are the Ikon's difficult to setup. With the right guidance, a tape measure, a little effort and some patience, you will be able to find the optimum location for your Ikon 6's. Your efforts will be rewarded with what Dali calls, Magic Moments.


It looks like you are well on your way to building a really nice home entertainment system. I hope it will give you years of enjoyment!

Many, many thanks Audiodynamics!

I will let you know how I get on in due course and PM you to 'eke out' the very best sound attainable.

Yours in appreciative audio...........
PolzyB

AudioD,
What is your opinion on Ikon2 for a bedroom 2 channel of size 18x19 with full carpet? Thanks,

Actually, I've never heard the Ikon 2's. We don't have many clients in the market for monitors. If the Ikon 2's sound anything like the Ikon Phantom In Wall, they should be remarkable.

Dali's entire Phantom in wall series use sealed, reinforced, curved, cast aluminum enclosures. The enclosures are very resonant free. Since they are sealed, they eliminate the unwanted sound characteristics of other in wall speakers that use the the wall cavity as an enclosure. Add Dali's hybrid tweeters, proprietary drivers, custom crossovers and the Dali Phantom's give a new meaning to the term in wall speakers!

The Ikon Phantom's are $495.00 each or only $990.00 per pair

The Euphonia Phantom's are $1,600.00 each or $3,200.00 per pair

The Helicon Phantom's are $1,195.00 each or $2,390.00 per pair

Hello Audiodynamics

Where are you located? I travel thru the US. Would like to "drop
in" and listen to a Helicon 400. Cannot find a dealer in the Tampa bay area.
A PM is fine.
Thanks

I have listened to Ikon, Euphonia and the new Mentor. I did not like Ikon one bit to be honest. The treble was actually harsh in my ears. I also found the middle range lacking. The best output was in the bass region. I personally don't like the look of Ikon. Especially not the reddish bass drivers.

Euphonia sounded much better. Great treble and good bass response. Middle was ok but for that price I expected better.

Mentor has a wonderfully warmth to the sound and I became quite impressed. Strangely, I did not find the treble as harsh as the Ikon's. I'm not sure how much of a change there is between Mentor and Ikon but something was better in the treble region. The bass was "almost" too much and nearly took over in most recordings I listened to, even more so than my current B&W CM setup. Apart from that they were great in my opinion. If I would have had the money for them and the place where much bass wouldn't disturb my neighbours when I was looking for new front speakers these would have been among the top of my list. I can recommend Dali, at least take a listen if you have a chance.

I agree, these have the best front soundstage ever. I have the 400's and the 200 and it's incredible. I don't hear any difference when there are sweeps across the front channels.

I'm powering mine with the Cinenova amp and it's killer as well.

Next upgrade for me is the Phatom inwalls for the rear. Dali's rule....

Hi there,
new owner of some MS5's,

would love to know fellow owners' experiences with bass performance and cabling choices for these?

.. specifically, after about 300 hours on these the bass performance is not what I was expecting,

and I am curious if owners have auditioned/bought any of Dali's own speaker/interconnect cables?

I am told these cables are the same as used internally used in the speakers themselves, so the synergy should very tight !

Thanks !

Your MS5's need 500-600 hours of rigorous break in. After that, you'll be very happy with their subterranean bass performance. The more you run them, the better they'll sound. They will continue to improve over time.

Signed,

A Humble Dali Dealer

Well, I have the helicon 800s, and when I first hooked them up..not placed yet, they sounded very anemic, very little bass response. I found you have to really work with placement on these, I found they had to be a lot closer to the rear wall than the manual states, but once that's worked out, you have plenty of clear, precise bass to enjoy. Now if you're expecting floor-thumping, somewhat over-exaggerated bass, these speakers won't cut it...add a sub.

Jewel5,

The manual reads like 12 inches minimum after looking at the PDF on Dali's web site. What is the distance you have found optimum in your room from the wall?

OK, I measured it for you, I have the Helicons 6 1/2 in. from the rear wall(wood paneling), which really isn't that close actually, but it works out great since it makes it pretty even with my entertainment cabinet. They are both in corners though, so that may make a difference. I have no plugs in the ports, anywhere from 6-8in. I found brought out the best bass in my room, with no muddiness at all. Any further out I found the bass started slowly diminishing. I've never heard anyone complain about lack of bass with the Euphonias, so I would think it's a placement issue. I have my Helicons in a pretty tight fitting place due to space limitations, unfortunately, but they still sound fantastic in all respects. Hope you can work out your bass problem so you can enjoy those beautiful speakers.

Thank you very much for taking the time to measure. It's greatly appreciated!!!

Hello

I have been following this thread for a while. Although I did not have the time
to audition yet. Has anyone actually listened to a MS4 with C200 as
the center speaker. Any experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks

After some careful research, and inquiries from a few customers, I decided to become a Dali dealer.

My first experience with Dalis, were with the Helicon 400 on tube amplifiers. To be honest they sounded good, but not great. I kind of wrote them off after that.

However, more than a year later, I stumbled upon a pair at a clients home that a projection system was being spec'd at. Hooked up to solid state equipment they were spectacular. Seamless top to bottom coherence, and extremely wide soundstage. The ribbon/soft dome is magic, and wow are they gorgeous looking.

Needless to say I picked up the line after seeing that there werent any dealers in San Diego currently. They will join the ranks of Dynaudio, Thiel, Focal, and Monitor Audio all very worthy competition.

We are going to bring in the Ikon, new Mentor, and Helicon series first to see how they compare. I should have them in next week sometime at which point I will definitely share some comparative opinions. All equipment will be Simaudio, Arcam, and Bryston and is I think this equipment will compliment these speakers the best.

I have to say that I havent been this excited about new products for quite some time. New toys!

Anyway, little known fact about Dali is that they have 90% of the market share of high-end speaker sales in their homeland of Denmark. Pretty impressive considering the pedigree of Danish speaker engineering companies. I think they could very well be the next "big thing" here in the states.

I will keep you all informed!

Also while I am here what are all you current Dali owners using with your Dalis. Thanks.

I believe DALI is ranked 3rd. or 4th. in worldwide market share. DALI has been big in the European and Asian markets for several years. DALI really began to take the U.S. market seriously around 5 or 6 years ago.


Welcome to the DALI dealer's club! Since 2003 when we became a DALI dealer, it has been an absolute joy to represent the line. We became an authorized DALI Megaline dealer in 2005. Ben and Casey are great to work with and they bend over backwards to help DALI owners and dealers.

Good Luck!

Anthony Ciaburri
Audio Dynamics Div.
Wallingford, CT

I'm using the Ikon 6 with a BelCanto eOne s300i and a Denon 3801 for home theater. The BelCanto has a home theater bypass so it operates as the front channel amp for theater, for 2 channel I use the inputs on the BelCanto and the Denon is out of the system.

The BelCanto is a huge step up from the Denon, and is an almost perfect match for the Dalis. I've also tried an old B&K setup with the Dalis (EX442 amp, Pro10MC preamp), but the BelCanto / Dali combo worked best for me. Nice liquid midrange, smooth highs and soid bass without being too "loose" (B&K combo).

These are very good speakers at their price. I'd like to know if anyone has any experience with the new Mentor series. These look like they use the Ikon drivers in much nicer cabinets.

The Mentor does not use the Ikon drivers. The Ikon tweeter module is mounted in a plastic housing. The Mentor tweeter module is cast aluminum.

The Mentor cabinet is more rigid and is also curved to eliminate internal standing waves.

The Mentor's sound is closer to the much more expensive Helicon than it is to the Ikon sound.

There's a lot of positive buzz about the Helicon 400s (which I have listened to), but I've read very little about the Helicon 800s. Because these are a true 3-way design with larger cabinet and 8" bass drivers I would think that they would offer the potential for better sound, albeit at a higher price.

Anyone had a chance to audition these? My local dealer doesn't stock them.

I just recently picked up the Helicon 400's - 300's- C200.

My equipment at the moment is the Anthem AVM-20 and the Sherbourn 7/2100. The room they are in is 1500 CF, but in a larger room, I think they would even be better. Also, I am getting antsy thinking what's next in the chain.

At the moment, I am bi-amping the 400's with 600 watts per speaker at 4 ohms. The balance of the speakers (300-c200) is getting the 300 watts per channel. The Sherbourn is theoretically supposed to do 300 watts at the 4 ohm level.

I compared the Dali's to the Dyn Focus series and the Revel F32's M22's and the C32. I only auditioned 3 brands because time is not an asset at the moment. Either one of these companies would have been a winner, but my wife and I preferred the Dali's.

It's always difficult for me to pontificate and describe audio sound. The best I can do is the Dali's are magical in my room. When I run in 5.1 with some SACD there is almost a 3 dimensional effect at times when source material is recorded well.

In 2 channel, there is more then adequate bass, the soundstage is wide and the highs and mids are defined, but at the same time, light and airy and very, very non-fatiguing. My musical tastes run more into the classical, light jazz, acoustic realm with an occasional rift of head banger music.

The front stage is pretty seamless as there is distinction, but nothing is localized with the exception of dialog when needed for HT. The center channel is excellent.

Fit and finish on these beauties is outstanding. I decided on the Rosenut finish and the sheen and finish are top rate, equal to high end case goods I've purchased in my life.

One of the contributing reasons I decided on the Dali's was because my wife went nuts over them due to the finish. Sound output was my main objective and if they were not top notch in my price range, I would never have purchased them. Beauty means nothing if it's just a front.

However, when the wife says I love them, it makes this hobby a lot easier. The photos on Dali's web site with all due respect, do not convey the beauty of what they look like in real life. I actually hate to hide the center channel in my Salamander rack because it's so damn nice.

Please understand I am not in a fantasy land with a new toy as many times people buy something and it's the best thing since sliced bread. I try to be realistic in my life and understand there are superior products in the marketplace.

Yet, the Dali's are really fine speakers and if you are in this price range, I'd suggest to give them a listen. Of course they will not be for everyone, but they do deserve your attention as the dealers and owners know.

Thanks!

Have not talked with Ben yet, but Casey has been a joy to talk to. Definately impressed so far.

Bel Canto is another line Ive been thinking about. Traditional class A, AB are relatively perfected in their design, and yet Class D seems to offer alot of promise. The Nuforce stuff suprisingly sounded good with Martin Logan, but did some weird things with other lines. Bel Canto seems to stick to a more "proven" ICE technology now, and I think they are the safer choice.

Even the Halcro MC20 sounded nice, and yet with some speakers the highs were distinctly different.

I will definately consider Bel Canto.

Im hoping to have the Mentors in by next week, or will compare to similar offerings at that price. They look awesome though!