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HD-DVD Drive for PC, Well?

post #1 of 113
Thread Starter 
So when are the HD-DVD drives for the PC will come out? I would like some info, release date and product informations.....


Respond please.. Thank you
post #2 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

This hands-on review is the only thing I know of for a HD-DVD PC drive. Its a pre-production review of the NEC HR-1100A.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13006

sorry for the late reply. I tried going to that site but the page could not be opened.. I'll try again.
post #3 of 113
I posted this on my Distilled News thread:

NEC at CeBIT 2006

In a nutshell:
HD DVD reader for March
HD DVD reader/DVD writer for May
HD DVD writer for July
post #4 of 113
Thread Starter 
I think I'm going for the HD-DVD.. March is almost there oh i'm excited.

what price do you guys think it will likely run in USD? $800 range maybe? Thanks for the input guys!
post #5 of 113
Just so you have as perfect information as possible:

Blu-ray burners are announced for April. If you want to know more, ask in Blu-ray players forum
post #6 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

Just so you have as perfect information as possible:

Blu-ray burners are announced for April. If you want to know more, ask in Blu-ray players forum

i've heard that the BlueRay doesn't use MPEG4 for movies so I'd have to say "eww....". They're still using old MPEG2 which takes up humongous(if I spelled it right) room.. very inefficient.
post #7 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez View Post

i've heard that the BlueRay doesn't use MPEG4 for movies so I'd have to say "eww....". They're still using old MPEG2 which takes up humongous(if I spelled it right) room.. very inefficient.

You heard wrong, probably from one or several maliciously skewed sources.

Blu-ray supports the exact same codecs as HD DVD.
post #8 of 113
But will not use them initially Grubert

Sure they have them in the specs but are commited to MPEG-2 right now,well at least initially.
post #9 of 113
also before buying a drive make sure it will work. AACS is extremely demanding and there might be issues with XP (might need Vista)
post #10 of 113
Thread Starter 
i'm using winXP and Server 2003. AnthonyP, you're scaring me now. I guess i'll just have to double check before actually buying it when it comes out.
post #11 of 113
I hope there will be a mac burner out soon.
post #12 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

Sony is the only studio which has announced they will be using MPEG-2 initially. The other 6 major studios have not yet made any official claim as to which codec they will be using.

True, but authoring tools for other codecs with BR have been reported to not exist, so it's most likely they will use what Sony currently has available. But I can hope to be pleasently surprised in that regard. This is contrasted to Warner, which most definitely will be using VC-1 (and HD-DVD authoring tool for this codec is there and supported by MS)...
post #13 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez View Post

i'm using winXP and Server 2003. AnthonyP, you're scaring me now. I guess i'll just have to double check before actually buying it when it comes out.

I'm sure you will be able to replay things you have burned yourself, but for pre-recorded ROM playback, Anthony is very correct in the wait and see. At the very least you will need to have HDCP enabled in the graphics card and monitor.
post #14 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

Sony is the only studio which has announced they will be using MPEG-2 initially. The other 6 major studios have not yet made any official claim as to which codec they will be using.

Warner has said it would like to use VC-1.

The question is are the BR authoring tools with VC-1 ready ? If not, when will they be ready ...
post #15 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez View Post

i'm using winXP and Server 2003. AnthonyP, you're scaring me now. I guess i'll just have to double check before actually buying it when it comes out.

HiDef DVDs are very different from normal DVDs. They need protected media paths. That means

- You need Vista
- New video card with HDMI (to be sure to get full rez)
- Possibly new motherboard

Apart from these, you may also need new CPU & GPU purely from speed perspective. Most of the currest systems would be too sluggish.

I'm holding off on buying new video card because of this.
post #16 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by G5Unit View Post

I hope there will be a mac burner out soon.

Doesn't mac use standard burners but with different drivers ?
post #17 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

HiDef DVDs are very different from normal DVDs. They need protected media paths. That means

- You need Vista
- New video card with HDMI (to be sure to get full rez)
- Possibly new motherboard

Apart from these, you may also need new CPU & GPU purely from speed perspective. Most of the currest systems would be too sluggish.

I'm holding off on buying new video card because of this.

More about Vista graphic card requirements: http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News...x?NewsId=16252

Oh, and probably new (and more expensive) memory as well...

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/02/06/ecc_for_vista/
post #18 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfingMatt27 View Post

But will not use them initially Grubert

Sure they have them in the specs but are commited to MPEG-2 right now,well at least initially.

First, it's a STUDIO's option to chose to put their content out in MPEG-2 or MPEG-4. The players for both High Def Media will support both. And remember that the discs are simply Media, you can put whatever the hell you want to on them. It's a matter of what the player standards support, and what the content providers put on them.

As far as MPEG-4 vs MPEG-2 superiority debate goes. What do you care if the Image Quality is as good in MPEG-2 as it is in MPEG-4 but takes a larger amount of space. It's not like your storing this on a HDD (yet anyway I'm sure we'll be ripping them soon enough - you can always crack a nut if you got a big enough hammer)

The big deal on MPEG-4 is not superior quality, but lower bit-rate for the same quality. This is why you see Satellite providers moving towards this because of limited bandwidth, their sub-banding of HD Channels requires them to overcompress the data until it looks like crap. You're not seeing cable go this route because they have plenty of bandwidth.

At the current highest quality terestrial broadcasting of HD we're at 19Mbps with MPEG2. A BluRay capacity is 25GB on a single layer disc, that's almost 3hrs worth of video of 'Discovery Channel HD' Image quality.

Now, take those numbers and convert to a 15GB single layer HDDVD and you get under 2hrs for MPEG2, but you can get the same quality using MPEG4 with less space.

Think about it, HDDVD capacity is effectively requiring studios to go strait to MPEG4, while BluRay capacity gives the studios a choice.

CCourtney
post #19 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by c1courtney View Post

At the current highest quality terestrial broadcasting of HD we're at 19Mbps with MPEG2. A BluRay capacity is 25GB on a single layer disc, that's almost 3hrs worth of video of 'Discovery Channel HD' Image quality.

That is not completely true. You need more like 25Mbps to get to "transparency" compared to the master - or so I've read in the big threads.

You add lossless audio tracks and extras to that and you will start seeing that 25GB is simply not enough for movies. So, what do they do ? Will they cut extras or reduce PQ / AQ ? If you know the answer, you know why we are talking about this.

BTW, from some of Ben's posts in the big threads I'm not sure mpeg2 can achieve real transparency to the master....

Edit : Here is a better link.

Quote:


That is, a codec like VC-1 doesn't always get better because it throws out stuff you don't see. Sometimes, it flat out does a better job than MPEG-2 without throwing away anything more. Case in point: the "entropy coder". The back-end of all of these codecs is a *lossless* compression engine. Since this part is lossless, no data is thrown away regardless of codec used. Yet, VC-1 uses a more advanced algorithm that can be 10 to 15% more efficient than MPEG-2's entropy coder. So you get something for nothing .

Other gains also come from using variable block size where even better edge definition is achieved than MPEG-2, since the block can fit the source image better than 8x8 blocks in MPEG-2.

All in all, this stuff gets complicated quickly . But the net summary is that VC-1 can always match the picture quality of MPEG-2 but definitely not the other way around. By using MPEG-2, BD leaves quality on the table for no reason, especially in BD-25 variant which will be used for now.

Look at this post by David :

Quote:


in A/B testing, high-bit-rate MPEG2 still has some high-frequency roll-off that's an inevitable artifact of even "perfect" MPEG2 compression while even at 1/2 the same bit-rate WM9 looked nearly transpartent to the source D1 master.
post #20 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Edit : Here is a better link.

(by a Microsoft VP)

Sorry nataraj but just because this is the HD DVD forum you don't have carte blanche for unchecked spin.
post #21 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

Sorry nataraj but just because this is the HD DVD forum you don't have carte blanche for unchecked spin.

Grubert, if you know something better - post it. Don't just troll here ...

BTW, I linked to a post on the BR software forum
post #22 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

That is not completely true. You need more like 25Mbps to get to "transparency" compared to the master - or so I've read in the big threads.

You add lossless audio tracks and extras to that and you will start seeing that 25GB is simply not enough for movies. So, what do they do ? Will they cut extras or reduce PQ / AQ ? If you know the answer, you know why we are talking about this.

BTW, from some of Ben's posts in the big threads I'm not sure mpeg2 can achieve real transparency to the master....

Edit : Here is a better link.

Look at this post by David :

Nataraj,

You'll find that opinions differ greately as to what qualifies as 'transparent' WRT the master. That's why I used the example of 'Discovery Channel HD' which has a native rate of ~19Mbps and is something almost all of us have seen on terrestrial broadcasts and can all agree on it being impressive. You'll find people on the D-VHS forum claiming higher data rates are required. You'll also find that the amount of motion and spatial frequencies are going to play a major role in this too.

But let's go back to the claim of 25Mbps is the requirement for transparency. That gives you over two hours of video on a 25GB disc.

As far as extra's are concerned again we go back to, it's the studio's choice. Personaly, I don't care about extra's and seldomly if ever watch them, and I don't think the buying public purchases DVD for their extra's - Do you?

Back to a main point though, BluRay isn't preventing anybody from using MPEG4 if they want to, but it's not really a necessity if studio's don't want to. For HDDVD it's a necessity.

CCourtney
post #23 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by c1courtney View Post

But let's go back to the claim of 25Mbps is the requirement for transparency. That gives you over two hours of video on a 25GB disc.

We have been thr' this so many times .. its not useful rehashing the whole thing. You should also check what is needed for audio. See the big thread for this particular discussion (how much time will fit into 25GB).

Quote:


Back to a main point though, BluRay isn't preventing anybody from using MPEG4 if they want to, but it's not really a necessity if studio's don't want to. For HDDVD it's a necessity.

Question is not one of prevention. Its about fecilitation ... who has a BD authoring tool that supports new codecs ?

Anyway, this is totally OT for this thread and for HD-DVD. They are using VC-1 even with 30GB and thus the problem affects only BR - and thus its a concern for the BR area of the forum.
post #24 of 113
There are HD DVD titles coming in MPEG-2 too, according to Tom McMahon.
post #25 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Question is not one of prevention. Its about fecilitation ... who has a BD authoring tool that supports new codecs ?

That's a Joke right? It reminds me of a commercial 'Sonic's got it, others don't' It's not a BD vs HD-DVD disc authoring tool, it's a High Definition VC1 authoring tool. Sonic's High Definition DVD authoring tool is what most people are mistakingly imply is a HD-DVD Authoring Tool for VC1. You can take this and put it on any friggin media you so chose, with any friggin wrapper that's needed.

The discs are MEDIA, they hold information. VC1 is a Codec, its for encoding/decoding of video.

CCourtney
post #26 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by c1courtney View Post

That's a Joke right?

Seach and you shall find.
post #27 of 113
am I understanding this correctly, that HD DVD drive will need a new operating system?

If so, what a master stroke by Micro$oft.

"Heres some new technology folks, we aren't $elling the hardware, but we are $upporting it. Oh and by the way, that old version of window$ you have won't operate it, but heres its replacement, that'll be $299 thanks"
post #28 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator View Post

am I understanding this correctly, that HD DVD drive will need a new operating system?

If so, what a master stroke by Micro$oft.

You are barking up the wrong tree here ... MS couldn't care less. But Hollywood does.
post #29 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator View Post

am I understanding this correctly, that HD DVD drive will need a new operating system?

If so, what a master stroke by Micro$oft.

"Heres some new technology folks, we aren't $elling the hardware, but we are $upporting it. Oh and by the way, that old version of window$ you have won't operate it, but heres its replacement, that'll be $299 thanks"


Folks we have more things to worry about than vista....

There are no available pc video cards that are HDCP compliant.... New video cards needed for HD-DVD

Also there are very few HDCP compliant computer monitors available...

I am looking for the links and will edit..
post #30 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by milachy View Post

Also there are very few HDCP compliant computer monitors available...

Most people who use a HTPC (atleast on this forum), use it with a HDTV / Projector. So, in that sense we already have HDCP compliant "monitors".

Personally I'd not care if I see SD or HD on a 20" monitor ... when it gets to 10 feet, I'm obviously more concerned.
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