AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Auralex Subdude a MUST HAVE!!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Auralex Subdude a MUST HAVE!! - Page 36

post #1051 of 1095
A piece of carpet padding will work just as well, as will rubber feet or cutting up one of these:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Stansport-Pack-Lite-Camping-Pad/9856753?t=1&

Beware that the vast majority of testimonials for these things only prove how effective placebo effect is.
post #1052 of 1095
Personally I have had my four for some time now and have zero complaints.
They do exactly what they were designed to do.
I'd purchase them again.




























Terry
post #1053 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post

They do exactly what they were designed to do.
Agreed, as what they were designed to is to separate the unwary from their money. Even their own advertising admits that their benefits are realized above 100Hz, which isn't where subwoofers operate. And most of the rest of what they claim to do by decoupling speakers from the floor speaker spikes also claim to do via better coupling to the floor. If you want the best results do you use subdudes and spikes too? rolleyes.gif
post #1054 of 1095
Hi tigerhonaker.

As you said. They do exactly what they were designed to do. I'd purchase them again. I have twelve of them. smile.gif
2012_081818aug120014.JPG 4200k .JPG file
2012_081818aug120015.JPG 4252k .JPG file
2012_1014OKT0002.JPG 1436k .JPG file
post #1055 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Agreed, as what they were designed to is to separate the unwary from their money. Even their own advertising admits that their benefits are realized above 100Hz, which isn't where subwoofers operate. And most of the rest of what they claim to do by decoupling speakers from the floor speaker spikes also claim to do via better coupling to the floor. If you want the best results do you use subdudes and spikes too? rolleyes.gif

Bill,

There is one thing I am pretty much certain of.
Don't try to convince another person to do something or purchase something they have already made up their mind is a (Total Waste of Their Money).
I think that would apply here.
You think these are a waste of your dollars and also that they do basically nothing of a benefit.

Now that I said the above I will be happy with mine under all 4 of my subs.
You are going to be Super Happy that you did not waste your money on them.

I see no way that the two of us are not happy with our two different decisions on this product. biggrin.gif

I also use their product under my rear wall mounted spkrs in my 7.1 system.




I hope you had an Awesome Christmas if it is something you celebrate.

Have a Great New Year coming up.

Terry
Edited by tigerhonaker - 12/26/12 at 10:22am
post #1056 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post

You think these are a waste of your dollars and also that they do basically nothing of a benefit.
I don't think it; that would only be a subjective opinion, and I don't post my opinions, unless I clearly label them as such. I do post engineering facts, usually those that I've personally confirmed, as I have in this case. If I'd found that they worked I'd say so. I didn't.

http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19112
post #1057 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I don't think it; that would only be a subjective opinion, and I don't post my opinions, unless I clearly label them as such. I do post engineering facts, usually those that I've personally confirmed, as I have in this case. If I'd found that they worked I'd say so. I didn't.
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19112

Bill .....

I took the time to read your profile so I'm confident that you more than likely know what you are talking about.

In my case if these do exactly what the claims are by the Manufacturer makes no difference.
They do keep my floors from vibrating in the HT.
In this installation my HT is located over my 2 1/2 car garage.
These did get rid of that issue but I am not in anyway a professional.
I will keep them under all 4 of my subs. as IMO they do offer some benefit.

I think this is just another case where each individual has to decide does this product offer any benefit at all to them.

Also the cost of these to me and speaking only for myself is minimal.
I've certainly throw away a heck of a lot more money on things over the yrs. that for the most part were just a want more than a need.
A few hundred dollars in a custom HT compared to the $100,000.00 plus overall cost is insignifican IMHO.
Heck I say just jump in and give things a try and see what one thinks.
If you just don't like whatever that item/items are get rid of it or them and move on.

Terry
post #1058 of 1095
This product does seem overpriced if you consider how easy it is to fashion your own isolation pad which will yield the same results.
post #1059 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post

They do keep my floors from vibrating in the HT
When I took measurements in my basement under my living room where the sub was located I went to the trouble of measuring not only sound transmission but also the floor deflection with and without isolation, feet and spikes, using a dial indicator. There was no difference. I did this to see if my designs, both commercial and DIY, would benefit from any if them. Based on my testing rubber feet is all I recommend, and then only for use on hard floors. On carpet feet will leave indentation marks that are almost impossible to get rid of, so I don't recommend anything with carpeted floors.
post #1060 of 1095
Bill, not to hijack this thread (well I am...), but what do you think of a bookshelf speaker placed on top of a sub? Do you think an Auralex between the two would help?
post #1061 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by beezar View Post

Bill, not to hijack this thread (well I am...), but what do you think of a bookshelf speaker placed on top of a sub? Do you think an Auralex between the two would help?
If placing it there causes it to vibrate isolate it with rubber feet, felt pads, sheet cork, a piece of carpet, whatever. If it ain't broke you don't need to fix it. But tops and subs rarely work best with the same placement.
post #1062 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

When I took measurements in my basement under my living room where the sub was located I went to the trouble of measuring not only sound transmission but also the floor deflection with and without isolation, feet and spikes, using a dial indicator. There was no difference. I did this to see if my designs, both commercial and DIY, would benefit from any if them. Based on my testing rubber feet is all I recommend, and then only for use on hard floors. On carpet feet will leave indentation marks that are almost impossible to get rid of, so I don't recommend anything with carpeted floors.

Bill,

IMO I think this really comes down to just one thing really.

A person in their opinion hears an improvement in their opinion or that person does not.

And it make no difference at all if that person's opinion can be measured scientifically or not.

Speaking only for myself I hear an improvedment so in my case I like the product (Auralex) and will continue to use it and speak well of it.

Cost is a relative thing to different people.
If a person/persons feel the item is to expensive then simply don't purchase it.
In my case the cost seemed very reasonable.
And also in my case I don't want to make a home made islolation pad/pads.

Not to really start an ongoing never ending debate on this product really but we both have our opinions and neither of us is going to change them.
You can and do continue to use the scientific method to support your feelings on the product.
In my case I don't care if it can be proved scientifically or not.

One last time.
I like the products (Auralex) makes and will keep what I have and enjoy the improved sound I hear.
(In-My-Opinion)

Have a good day Sir,
Terry
post #1063 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post

Bill,
IMO I think this really comes down to just one thing really.
A person in their opinion hears an improvement in their opinion or that person does not.
I have no problem with anyone spending their own money on products that cannot do what they claim to do. Telling other people that they should spend their money on placebos based on an opinion not backed up by facts is a different story. This is, after all, the AVScience form, not the AVFantasy forum.
post #1064 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I have no problem with anyone spending their own money on products that cannot do what they claim to do. Telling other people that they should spend their money on placebos based on an opinion not backed up by facts is a different story. This is, after all, the AVScience form, not the AVFantasy forum.

Bill,

I just knew we would probably agree on something.

I'm not going to tell anyone else what to spend their money on.

Infact I will even go as far as saying this.
I personally don't care what anyone else spends their money on.


See we can agree on something after all.

And I still like the product and will continue using it and I do hear a difference using it.

Looks like this has finally ended up as a Win-Win for the both of us after all. biggrin.gif

Terry
post #1065 of 1095
I am going to try the DIY route, I want some opions on whether to use mdf or I was thinking of using a marble tile from home depot?

Thanks to all for posting tons of great information, and great pix

Regards
Pete C
post #1066 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by petec1962 View Post

I am going to try the DIY route, I want some opions on whether to use mdf or I was thinking of using a marble tile from home depot?

The Subdude is so inexpensive that unless you just don't like the way it looks, it just doesn't make sense to do it as a DIY project (IMHO). When you look at the time and gas you're going to spend, along with uncertain results, it seems like it would be much simpler to just to buy a Subdude.
post #1067 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Greer View Post

The Subdude is so inexpensive that unless you just don't like the way it looks, it just doesn't make sense to do it as a DIY project
A piece of this cut to size will do everything a subdud does, unobtrusively, at 1/3 the price:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=202015909&R=202015909#.UP66YGeYUYc
post #1068 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by petec1962 View Post

I am going to try the DIY route, I want some opions on whether to use mdf or I was thinking of using a marble tile from home depot?

Thanks to all for posting tons of great information, and great pix

Regards
Pete C

I went DIY route and I'm happy with the result. Originally I wanted to buy one, but I couldn't simply find the right size. Here is my "DIY Subwoofer Isolation Riser" thread. Good luck!
post #1069 of 1095
Quote:
The Subdude is so inexpensive that unless you just don't like the way it looks, it just doesn't make sense to do it as a DIY project (IMHO). When you look at the time and gas you're going to spend, along with uncertain results, it seems like it would be much simpler to just to buy a Subdude.

I agree. I put Subdude's under my 2 front main speakers, and a Gramma version under my SVS cylinder sub. They have stopped the room from rattling, and from things attached to the house from vibrating, which was a problem even though I have carpeted floors with padding. And I feel the sound has improved as a result. Pretty cheap considering what everything else in the theater cost !!! smile.gif
post #1070 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

A piece of this cut to size will do everything a subdud does, unobtrusively, at 1/3 the price:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=202015909&R=202015909#.UP66YGeYUYc

How thick is that matting Bill? It would have to be 3" - 4" thick to have similar properties to a Subdude wouldn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyDee View Post

I went DIY route and I'm happy with the result. Originally I wanted to buy one, but I couldn't simply find the right size. Here is my "DIY Subwoofer Isolation Riser" thread. Good luck!

Very cool work Randy!
post #1071 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Greer View Post

How thick is that matting Bill? It would have to be 3" - 4" thick to have similar properties to a Subdude wouldn't it?
It's a half inch. Matching the properties of the subdud isn't the concern, it's doing the same job, and it will. The subdud isn't made that thick because it needs to be, it's made that thick to convince potential buyers that it's capable of doing what it claims to.
post #1072 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It's a half inch. Matching the properties of the subdud isn't the concern, it's doing the same job, and it will. The subdud isn't made that thick because it needs to be, it's made that thick to convince potential buyers that it's capable of doing what it claims to.

Have you tested this yourself with an accelerometer or similar tools?
post #1073 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Greer View Post

Have you tested this yourself with an accelerometer or similar tools?
Yes.
post #1074 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Yes.

Excellent! Can you please point me to the link where you share your testing methodology and results? I can't seem to locate that thread.
post #1075 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Greer View Post

Excellent! Can you please point me to the link where you share your testing methodology and results? I can't seem to locate that thread.
It's on my forum. Mods here don't like it when posters link to their own websites, so since you insist I'll reprint it here. I also tested the floor deflection from below with a dial indicator. Isolated versus not isolated, no difference. Looking forward to seeing your test results that back up your point of view.
Quote:
Do I need to isolate my subs? Do I need speaker spikes?
The answer is no. Next to high priced cables and power conditioners isolation pads and spikes are the biggest scams in audio. The following quoted claims are taken straight from the websites of manufacturers of these devices.

The Isolation Claim: ‘Its purpose is to prevent sound from transmitting through your subwoofer to surrounding surfaces. Subwoofers create big vibrations (low frequencies) that you can feel in the floor and in objects placed nearby. When the source of the vibrations is coupled directly to the floor it causes these objects to vibrate or resonate…’

The Truth: The source of these vibrations is the movement of the driver cone. The claim would only be true if you coupled the driver cone to the floor. If the cabinet panels vibrate enough to cause the floor to vibrate the speaker is defective.

The Decoupling Claim: ‘Isolators for your speakers…will decouple your speakers from the surface they rest upon, resulting in a more pure, accurate tone. Low frequencies will be projected and will no longer lack the definition you desire. Mid and high frequencies will be crisp and intelligible. Rattles and resonances will be a thing of the past.’

The Spike Claim: ‘By rigidly coupling a loudspeaker enclosure to a floor by means of a spiking system, it is possible to dramatically improve clarity, stereo imaging and bass response. This is very apparent with subwoofer systems.’

The Quandary: These sources claim the same benefits from coupling and from decoupling. Who’s telling the truth?

The Truth: Both are lying. Isolation and coupling makes no difference. To test this I measured the response of my THT and my David with the test mic in the room, in the next room, and in the room below, with the cabinet sitting on the carpeted floor, on four inches of high density acoustic foam, on rubber feet and on spikes. I’d post the measured results for each set of comparisons, but there would be no point. In each case the measured responses of the four options were identical.
Note that this was on a carpeted floor. There may be some slight benefits to isolation devices or rubber feet on a bare floor, or on a bare shelf or stand. But you never want a bare floor, it’s an acoustical nightmare. If you only have area rugs in your listening room stick a piece of felt carpet padding, a carpet scrap or rubber feet under your speaker. If you're using bookshelves on a bare shelf or stand small rubber feet or felt pads are all you need to prevent spurious vibrations.

The Endorser Claim: ‘I tried them and they work, I know what I’m hearing!’

The Truth: The first thing you learn in an acoustical engineering course is that you don’t know what you’re hearing. If you did you’d be able to listen to a speaker, take pencil and graph paper in hand, and draw a frequency response chart, THD chart and waterfall plot, all with 1/24 octave resolution and 1/10dB accuracy. Our ears just aren’t that good, not by a very wide margin. But our imagination works very well, and that clouds our audio judgment, leading to placebo effect. In short, if you think something will make a difference in the sound, it will.

For an in depth examination of why we really don’t know what we’re hearing check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
post #1076 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

A piece of this cut to size will do everything a subdud does, unobtrusively, at 1/3 the price:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=202015909&R=202015909#.UP66YGeYUYc

I had no idea Home Depot had an audio section....who knew?
post #1077 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

I had no idea Home Depot had an audio section....who knew?
This is what their speakers look like:
http://www.homedepot.com/Lumber-Composites-Plywood-Sheathing-Subfloor/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbqm7/R-203504324/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

Some assembly is required. wink.gif
post #1078 of 1095
It's my understanding that the standard belief is that when a sub is decoupled, that vibrations from the sub box aren't transmitted to the floor. And thus the floor has less effect on the subwoofer. Since the floors of any location are different and room characteristics of any location are different, I'm not sure how measuring your room's particular acoustics would yield definitive results. Also, in your pull quote you mention that rooms with bare floors may see some benefit. If there is no transmission, per your testing, then one would then presume that no room would benefit. In other words, if you think that there is some transmission in some circumstances, then wouldn't there be some kind of transmission, although reduced, through any kind of isolation? And therefore, wouldn't the best possible isolation yeild the best possible results?
post #1079 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Greer View Post

It's my understanding that the standard belief is that when a sub is decoupled, that vibrations from the sub box aren't transmitted to the floor. ?
Properly designed and constructed sub boxes do not vibrate within the subwoofer frequency passband. Even a relatively poorly made sub won't have panel resonances below 400Hz. A sub box that actually did vibrate even at 200Hz would be unusable.
Quote:
Also, in your pull quote you mention that rooms with bare floors may see some benefit. If there is no transmission, per your testing, then one would then presume that no room would benefit.
The benefit that might be seen is in those frequencies where the sub panels can vibrate, above 400Hz. 400 Hz and higher frequencies do not cause a floor to vibrate, but they could cause audible panel buzz if in direct contact with a hard surface. Any and all vibration of a floor is directly related to the acoustic output of the sub, not physical contact. If the floor is vibrating in the 20-150 Hz range that vibration could cause the sub to vibrate atop a bare floor. All it takes to stop that vibration is rubber feet or a thin resilient pad.
post #1080 of 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post


I agree. I put Subdude's under my 2 front main speakers, and a Gramma version under my SVS cylinder sub. They have stopped the room from rattling, and from things attached to the house from vibrating, which was a problem even though I have carpeted floors with padding. And I feel the sound has improved as a result. Pretty cheap considering what everything else in the theater cost !!! smile.gif

Craig,

 

Agreed

 

And they can be Cut to fit most subwoofers if needed.

 

 

tigerhonaker


Edited by tigerhonaker - 2/9/13 at 10:29am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Auralex Subdude a MUST HAVE!!