Auralex Subdude a MUST HAVE!! - Page 14

I just got my Auralex Gramma for my SVS PB12-NSD which is on wooden floor boards over concrete. First I'll say I'm pretty skeptical of audio improvements as alot of it's VERY subjetive (ppl tend to either imagine things or over-exagerate the improvements)...but I have to say the Auralex does make a noticeble improvement on the sound, the sub sounds less boomy and abit tighter

Alright, so I would get a subdude but it is too small. A great gramma is more fitting for my needs, it is 30" L x 19" W. My sub is 31" L x 20" W. Is it okay to have an inch overhang on both length and width? It's an Epik Caliber by the way.

sure, overhang isn't a problem...

Oh, by the way, does anybody know of any places that'll sell such things but in a B&M store?

Yes the WoofaFlex is a must have,makes subs sound 1000 X better ! Yeah I am serious.

[quote=union1411;14460402]Subdude didn't do much for my sub. Green is with Subdude, red without. Sub is SVS PB10. i have a rug that covers most of my room and i'm on the 5th floor of a 1920s walkup; so maybe it's concrete floor, i dunno.




That's a good way to tell if it works or not. Actually measure the sound. Good job. I've been debating on adding one on my tiled floor. This helps a lot. 3/8 Tile with backer board, thinset is like a concrete floor. So maybe I will pass. This was the most helpful post here ....for me thanks.

yes, many places sell auralex products... guitar center, etc.

sweetwater is a good place to get them online... if you don't mind the "follow up" phone calls trying to get you to buy more stuff...

I'm not sure what "follow up" sales calls you're talking about. I ordered a subdude back in April from Sweetwater. I received one confirmation call after I ordered it, and one call a few days after it was shipped to make sure I got it okay. I've never received another phone call from them.

But yes, there are many B&M stores that sell this stuff. Easiest thing to do is go >>here<< and enter your zip code and it will tell you every dealer that's near you.

What is the difference between Subdude and Subdude HD?

Well clearly the Subdude HD is in Hi-Definition and just the plain ol' Subdude, which I have, is only in Standard-Def.

Looking at the on-line descriptions, both items are the same size but the HD model is covered with "cleanable black velour." And, of course, costs more.

So unless you're someone who has a need for "cleanable black velour", I'm sure you'll be happy with the regular Subdude, as I am.

i received no less than 6 phone calls from them... it's no biggie to me, i only mentioned it because i know it irritates some people...

great service and pricing though...

I have hard wood floors layed on top of a concrete slabe, will a Subdude help much? I don't know if this matters but I have 19 foot ceilings.

Wow! I wouldn't like that at all, I guess YMMV.

But I was very happy with their service also, and the price was very reasonable I thought.

Really, from what I've read about others experiences throughout this thread, I'd say the only way to know for sure is to try it out and see. It's a relatively minor investment if it helps at all.

My advice would be to buy it from sweetwater (or somewhere local that accepts returns) and return it if you don't hear any difference.

I'm planning on getting a GRAMMA to use under my VTF-2 Mk3. This will be on a carpet covered wood floor. I was wondering, how much does the foam material compress with 80lbs of sub on top of it? Also, should I use the rubber ends for the sub's spiked feet or just the spikes directly onto the GRAMMA?

Thanks.

You all missed the best part of post #386!

"Do fish get thirsty? Take the dumb test now!"

Are there some chaeaper options available too?

I stumbled on this thread by chance recently and it has really grabbed my attention.

I was going to buy one of these but I realized I already have some of the Auralex PlatFoam left over from about a year ago. I had purchased a sheet of this stuff to isolate my XBOX 360 which sits on a glass shelf. I only needed a section large enough to match the dimensions of the XBOX so I had the majority of the sheet left over. The only difference is mine is 1" thick instead of the 2" thickness they use on the SubDude/GRAMMA isolation platforms. I also still had some Studiofoam left over from when I applied it to my walls. So, I decided it would be pretty economical to build one of these things considering the material I had on hand. The only thing I was missing was the MDF, which I assumed I could grab pretty cheap at Lowe's. Unfortunately, the smallest size they had a Lowe's was 8' x 4' and that wasn't happening - I didn't have the wife's minivan or the desire to buy a sheet that large so I could cut out a 21" x 24.5" section (the dimensions of my sub). I did find a 3/4" sheet of birch lament that came very close (24" x 24") to the dimensions of my sub so I grabbed it and headed home.

I cut four 4" x 24" strips of the PlatFoam out of the sheet. I used some of the spray adhesive I had left over to permanently join two strips of the PlatFoam together and get the same 2" thickness used on the SubDude/GRAMMA. I also used two 12" x 12" Studiofoam panels in the middle section of the platform (like on the SubDude/GRAMMA). I did not cut the wood to exact dimensions, cover the wood, or permanently attach the foam to the bottom since this was intended to be a quick experiment. My plan was test it out and either finish it or take the wood back to Lowe's depending on the outcome.

I took measurements with REW before and after placing the sub on the isolation platform so I could have data to prove or disprove any changes I perceived in my listening tests. I also listened to a combination of music and scenes from movies that I was already familiar with. They are scenes I use to demo my system for people.

I made a couple interesting observations during this exercise. First, I did notice a significant reduction in vibrations and resonance in the floor and a mild reduction in the walls. The second thing I noticed was a bigger than expected gain in output volume from the sub when it was on the platform. I’m not sure why this occurs but my best guess is the hard wood plank is substantially more reflective than the carpet and thick pad the sub is normally sitting on. A second contributing factor could be the space between the woofer and the floor/platform due to the sub sinking into the carpet/pad.

I did NOT notice any change in the characteristics of the subwoofer after placing it on the platform. It did not sound any tighter or more musical to my ears. The removal of the vibrations/resonance in my floors were very noticeable and welcome but I could discern no difference in the tonal qualities of the sub.

Here are the graphs from before and after placing the sub on the platform. I was a little surprised to see the larger dip at ~30Hz after placing the sub on the platform. All in all, not a whole lot of difference.

Before

After

Overlay


Bottom Line:
While I didn’t notice any change in the sound quality of the actual subwoofer, the reduction/elimination of the resonance from the floor vibrations was very noticeable and could be perceived as a less “muddy” sound in the room when playing intense LFE passages. The floorboards were essentially adding sound to the environment and it is a noticeable improvement after it has been removed. It is worth noting I do not feel any reduction in the tactical impact of the sub. This sub hits really hard and extends pretty low. Nothing has changed in that regard. The fact this platform has removed the audible vibrations without any tactical reduction is kind of surprising the more I think about it.

I will trim the board down to match the width of the sub and do something to make it look nice. I haven’t decided what I want to do for ascetics yet. I’m thinking about wrapping the whole contraption, including the foam, with a lightweight black fabric. Or I might paint/stain the wood and use some material as a valance to cover the foam. Or I could….Oh, I don’t know yet so I will leave it alone until I come up with something…

Additional Note: I bypassed the BFD filters and ran another series of measurements and then applied new filters to compensate for the extra dip at 30Hz prior to my listening tests.

Here is some information on the equipment, environment, and material I used during the evaluation.

Environment:

• 11’ x 15’6” room on the first floor
• Standard wood floors covered with carpet and a thick carpet pad (note: the floors are pretty “springy” in this room.)
• Drywall walls/ceiling
• Absorption on the wall behind the speakers and on the side walls at first reflection points
• Bass traps in front corners – floor to ceiling

Equipment:

• AVR – Onkyo TX-SR705
• Speakers – Paradigm Monitor 7 v4 mains, CC-370 center, ADP-370 surrounds and back surrounds
• Sub – Elemental Designs A5 – 350 (Crossover @ 50Hz
• Blueray player – PS3
• HD-DVD – Toshiba HD-A35
• DVD player – I used my XBOX 360 (Media Center Extender mode) for playback of all clips marked listed as DVD. I have all of these clips ripped and saved on the hard drive on a computer running Windows Vista Media Center. I stream them with the My Movies Media Center Plug-in.
• SACD/DVD-A player – Marantz DV6001
• Sub PEQ - Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro [FBQ249]
• Measurement software - Room EQ Wizard (REW) Version 4.00 build 673

Demo Material: I listened to each of these before and after placing the sub on the platform.
Music:

• Babylon Sisters - Steely Dan/Gaucho (SACD)
• Hey Nineteen - Steely Dan/Gaucho (SACD)
• Gaucho - Steely Dan/Gaucho (SACD)
• Summer Fling - Spyro Gyro/The Deep End (SACD)
• Monsoon - Spyro Gyro/The Deep End (SACD)
• As You Wish - Spyro Gyro/The Deep End (SACD)
• Hotel California - Eagles/Hotel California (DVD-A)
• New Kid in Town - Eagles/Hotel California (DVD-A)
• Life in the Fast Lane - Eagles/Hotel California (DVD-A)
• Victim of Love - Eagles/Hotel California (DVD-A)
• Snowbound - Donald Fagen/Kamakiriad (DVD-A)
• Comin' Home Baby - David Sanborn/Timeagain (DVD-A)
• Man from Mars - David Sanborn/Timeagain (DVD-A)
• Rest in Peace - Extreme/III Sides to Every Story (CD)
• Color Me Blind - Extreme/III Sides to Every Story (CD)

Movie Scenes:

• Flight of the Pheonix - The crash landing (Blueray | DTS HD-MA)
• Incredibles - The scene where the missles are chasing and then hits the plane carying the mom and the kids (DVD | DD EX)
• Master in Command - The first naval battle (DVD | DD)
• Matrix Revolutions - When Neo meets with the machine "face" to discuss peace (DVD | DD)
• Finding Nemo - Daria glass tapping (DVD | DD EX)
• Star Wars: Episode I - Amadella's shiny silver ship landing / decoy bombed (DVD | DD)
• Star Wars: Episode I - Pod race (DVD | DD)
• U-571 - Depth charges (HD-DVD| DTS)
• Cloverfield - From the point they're on the roof right before the SOL head comes crashing in until the thing is past. (Blueray | TrueHD)
• Cloverfield - When the military first attacks the thing. (Blueray | TrueHD)

Other:

• THX - Cavalcade (DVD | DD EX)
• THX - T2 (DVD | DD)
• THX - TEX (DVD | DD)
• THX - TEX 2 [Moo Can] (DVD | DD)
• THX - Amazing Life (DVD | DD)
• Dolby Digital - City (DVD | DVD)
• Dolby Digital - City Redux (DVD | DVD)
• Dolby Digital - Rain (DVD | DVD)
• Windows Media 9 - Factory (DD)
• Windows Media 9 Series - Pinball (DD)

FWIW, here are is the frequency response, LF Decay, and waterfall for the sub blended with the mains and BFD filters applied.

Nice work

Thanks for the graphs. This thread sounds like a commercial for this product and for a certain company that sells it sometimes.

Thanks for the detailed testing and posting the results. It's nice to see some data that corresponds with user reports.

Is there any chance you'd be willing to repeat some of these tests using tennis balls underneath the sub in place of your homemade platform? I've issued this challenge in the past, but nobody has ever taken it up. It's based off of an old Stereophile-suggested tweak. It would be nice to see a data-based comparison.

Scott

True but the few graph I like. You get to see the difference with and without the gramma. Better than man it sounds twice as good ( because i spent $50) ect...... Imo if the graph doesn't change.. well in your room it doesn't make a difference. That not a good sales pitch

Thanks for the kind words guys.


I will offer a definite maybe on the tennis ball request. I'm not real familiar with that one though so I may need a little more info. Do you cut them and place them over the feet or remove the feet and rest the sub on the tennis balls? I wouldn't think the former would provide a whole lot of isolation and I'd be a little concerned with the stability of the sub in the latter (my sub is on the larger side in both dimensions and weight).

To be honest, I'm not sure how worthwhile the exercise would be though. There shouldn't be any difference in the charts as there is nothing to act as a trap in this configuration. The primary reason I wanted to do this experiment with the platform was to determine if something as small as a 2 3/4" lift, combined with the absorption properties of the Auralex foam products could exhibit any bass trapping characteristics. The results of the tests I ran show it does not - in my room at least.

About the only additional information I would hope to glean from the tennis ball test would be how good it is at reducing the vibration induced resonance in my floor boards. The most telling results therefore would be highly subjective.

Oh and BTW, I hope my post didn't come off as a "sales pitch" or a slam of the product. My apologies if it did. My intent was simply to determine if it made any difference - in my room - and report my findings.

Exactly and you did a good job

Thanks

Thanks for considering it. It involved placing plain tennis balls (not cut in half) under the subwoofer (either under under the feet or just on the bottom of the subwoofer). Depending on the type of subwoofer, this could be a problem.

The idea was for it to act as a cheap, but effective, decoupling device.

If you do feel like undertaking it, I'd be curious to see the results.

Scott

I ordered one from sweetwater.com on Wednesday and received it on Friday (Best free shipping ever) and this thing is amazing. I watched Iron Man on Blu-ray and the bass is so much better and almost all the rattling I used to have is gone. Sweet product.

They are also useful for your mains.

I can't believe there are actual people on THIS forum that want LESS bass.