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My VANTAGE HD has ARRIVED!!!!! - Page 3

post #61 of 1635
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post

Do the HDMI folks have no testing suite or validation process for hardware that claims to be HDMI compliant? It seems like there couldn't have been any real validation of these implementations or any reasonably full featured test suite that manufacturers could run against their implementation to insure that it is complaint. That would seem like a Compatibility 101 type requirement for such a system.

Hi Dean, yes, it gave a bit of trouble but I seem to have it working better now. Don't know why the Denon kept locking up though, but changing HDMI Audio Config to "Repeater" and removing simultaneous analog input sorted the problems. Notably - the JVC DVHS deck never barfed in that manner.
post #62 of 1635
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

RDjam:

If its not too much trouble could you take a quick look into information menu and let me know what the firmware revision is, the FPGA revision and standby micro revision # I would like to compare them with the Theatersync firmware etc.

Thanks

Will do... I am struggling a bit with the HD2K right now, but as soon as I have it connected back to the Samsung I'll scope it out. :-)

NOTE - It turned out I had forgotten to set the HD2K to proper clock, as noted above
post #63 of 1635
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ailean View Post

Rdjam, I think you'll find the HDMI issues you've seen so far aren't faults. Unless you use HDMI out of the VHD you won't be able to use HDMI in to it. This is part of the HDCP/HDMI licensing, I think any output res over VGA on the analogue has to be disabled.

And the HDMI to the display is probably the fact that pretty much all panels have very poor chance of excepting native rate on HDMI (which is why I'm waiting for 1080p panels ).

You should have better luck on the 1080p PJ so long as you use DVI/HDMI.

Sounds good so far, try watching some broadcast news with tickertape to see just how smooth the 50-60Hz convertion is.

Thanks for that - it makes sense - when I was having the most trouble was when I was feeding the Samsung via the PC monitor port, so this would match your statement.

No luck getting the HD2K to accept signal from VHD yet - the HD2K is VERY picky about the precise timings it is looking for, so I may have to call calibre tech support tomorrow

NOTE - yes it still hadn't dawned on me - my fault here - realized later on.
post #64 of 1635
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by latepmas View Post

Rdjam

Do you have the HQV test disc to check the deinterlacing and how well the video filters work?

No I don't have one - does anyone know how I can get hold of one?
post #65 of 1635
Thread Starter 
Well - that's about it for me tonight with the Vantage HD.

Was not able to get the HD2K working the first time around, so I'll be on the phone to calibre tomorrow to go for the next step.

Feel free to ask any questions, tho. I'll be up for a little while more checking through the manual again.

All the best.
post #66 of 1635
Thread Starter 
Ok - this is really embarassing. When I hooked up the VHD to the HD2K earlier I forgot to set the 2K to 60p.

(Slaps forehead AGAIN, but not as hard as the first time)

Realizing this, halfway through a movie I was watching with my girlfriend, I was forced to wait until it was finished.

As soon as I set the 2K to 60p, it locked onto the Vantage HD instantly.

I won't comment too much on the PQ yet, becuase I have to hook up more equipment and it is midnight here now, so I'll continue the experiment tomorrow with AVIA and all that.

But let me say this - the deinterlacing is FANTASTIC. On 1080i from DVHS, the F 1010 I had till now did a great job on vertical or near vertical lines, but near horizontal lines always had the jaggies because it was just combining the fields - as most other boxes did till now also.

I never realized how much detail was missing till now.

It's like I just got a new projector with twice the resolution.

As far as PQ is concerned, I had done a lot to balance the F 1010 with the 2K, so I have a little work cut out for me. But my initial impression is that the colors from the VHD are truer than the 1010, with less of the greenish tinges in the mid range tones.

Ok - any box that deinterlace 1080i will do the same for the clarity, so the real test is going to be how it handles all the source equipment and materials tomorrow. I can hardly wait.

Ironic that my Samsung 32" LCD gave me more trouble than the 2K.

Just spent the last hour watching some bits from Master and Commander, I Robot, The Island, Alien, Alien Resurrection, Teminator 3, The Italian Job, X-Men, Last Samurai, Spiderman, SWAT, Mission Imposible, Fifth Element, IMAX Super Speedway and Matrix reloaded.

Have to say I haven't seen it put a foot wrong yet on the deinterlacing.

I like it. I'll start using the test material tomorrow, but I'll sleep well on this lot. Good box so far - was only let down by my own mistakes.

NOTE - I just CANNOT overstate how fantastic this unit is at deinterlacing 1080i. Even now it continues to blow me away. Really, really fantastic. I've deliberately waited two weeks before adding this, as it could easily have been "new car syndrome" unless I spent more time with it.
post #67 of 1635
I have been out of town all weekend and just got home to look at all your posts, rdjam. Thanks a ton. Im optimistic now and cant wait to get my hands on my vantage.
post #68 of 1635
@rdjam, thanks for your reports - much welcome! One little question from me: Is the fan audible?
post #69 of 1635
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

@rdjam, thanks for your reports - much welcome! One little question from me: Is the fan audible?

You know, I didn't notice it at all yesterday or last night last night, but I have the unit on my couch, out of the rack and this morning when I came downstairs and sat beside it I noticed it for the first time.

It is quiet, the noise is more like a laptop would make, quite subdued.

Certainly nothing on the order of a PC or anything.
post #70 of 1635
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

No I don't have one - does anyone know how I can get hold of one?


http://www.hqv.com/

Under "Benchmark DVD"
post #71 of 1635
Hi,

It always amazes me when people try to argue that illegal down loading doesn't hurt anyone! If everyone was honset, non of this would be even dreamed of.


OK, I'm back from Fantasy Island, I know people will be dishonest and steal things, but the real villian is the guy stealing music and movies via the web etc. Sure HDCP is a terrible standard, but there's no need if stealing is not such a problem.

God bless....

Mark
post #72 of 1635
Amen to that Mark!!!
post #73 of 1635
Thread Starter 
Ok - I've been playing around with some more PAL DVDs...

Now I'm not going to say this is a definitive statement, but the 1080p picture that the VHD produces from 576p from the Denon seems a bit fuzzy - just not very sharp. (Yes, it is a digital signal from the DVI port).

I haven't done massive experimenting yet, but I seem to get a much sharper picture when I let the Denon output 720p and have the VHS take that to 1080p.

Can't really explain this observation - infers that the Silicon Optics chip (is it a fli 2300 in the Denon?) does a better job of deinterlacing and scaling SD material than the Realta?

Have notice the same thing on my Sky Satellite receiver, which I am outputting over S-Video at 576i. The image from the VHD is noticeably softer than the picture I used the get from my F 1010.

hmmm, anyone have any thoughts?
post #74 of 1635
Thread Starter 
OK - I take that last bit back - I've adjusted the brightness, contrast and played with the filters, and I now have a picture that beats what I was getting with the F 1010. I'm using a DVD that I've considered a reference for light, dark, sharpness and shadows - Flight of the Phoenix, in PAL.

Very satisfied by the picture now - better than I had before - I'm wondering whether I'll be able to get much out of Sky, but I'll give it a shot next.
post #75 of 1635
Thread Starter 
I've now finished setting up the DVD player with DVE and AVIA and I'm very impressed.

The VHD is capable of driving more saturation and contrast to the 2K than I was able to get cleanly out of the F1010.

I am driving the VHD at 720p from the Denon, as I still seem to get the best sharpnes that way.

I've noticed that once I had set up all my contrast, brightness and color settings, that if I switched video modes on the Denon on-the-fly during play (ie back to 576p) the VHD, upon rescanning, appeared to switch back to default settings. If I opened the settings menu, the settings still showed the correct values but if I moved any of the settins by one point, the video would suddenly correct itself to the settings shown.

Interesting little bug, but relatively easy to get used to.

Am now going to run DVE 1080i on the DVHS...
post #76 of 1635
Just wanted to clarify some items for you AVS guys, hopefully this will be of help to you:

i) Native PAL is 576i and native NTSC is 480/484i, so if you are outputting 576p or 480p then this has already been de-interlaced by your DVD player. You can check this by looking at the menus to find out if the line rate is approx 15KHz (i) or approx 31KHz (p).

Often, HDMI players refuse to output "i" formats on their HDMI connectors, which is very annoying of them since to get best performance you ought to let Vantage-HD do all the processing, including the de-interlacing. This can be a reason for using Component instead of HDMI since you generally have more control of Component via the menus on your DVD itself.

ii) Which is better, HDMI or Component? Well, you can argue this forever, we all have our own opinions, but what matters is which works best for you in your own install with your own gear. If you get best picture performance with HDMI then go ahead and use it, but if you get best performance with Component then use that instead.

We ourselves have tried many DVDs from Denon, LG, Samsung, Toshiba, Neodigits (very problematic!), Panasonic, Sony and several other makes, each with varying results in terms of how "HDMI Compatible" they were. My own personal view is that I prefer Component video, but that is my view and you are entitled to think I'm wrong of course, in which case go ahead and use HDMI, that's what we put the inputs there for!

We are not stating that HDMI is useless, or that our HDMI implementation is useless, but we are observing that some SD-originated sources don't work terribly well on HDMI. This is not the case for true HD sources where use of HDMI is often mandatory. However, these tend to be newer product designs with better inter-operability.

I hope you will enjoy using Vantage-HD and appreciate the picture it produces. If you have any specific queries about product you have purchased or intend to purchase, and cannot determine the answers from our website http://www.calibreuk.com then please email vantage@calibreuk.com so we can assist you.
post #77 of 1635
Tim. Thank you for posting here. I think I can speak for all in saying this. We welcome you and need you.
post #78 of 1635
Hi Tim!

Thanks for the info! In getting ready for my VHD to arrive, last night I did a little testing with my Panasonic S-97 player and found that if I "dumbed" the HDMI output down to DVI and fed the signal to the DVI input of my Ruby, then it worked just fine, but if I fed the same HDMI output (dumbed down again) to my DVI switch, and then fed the switch to the HDMI input on my Ruby - I got no picture, so before the VHD even gets here I can see that there will be issues, especially since I am dumbing the signal down to DVI. Tonight I will try feeding the HDMI output of the S-97 directly to the HDMI input of the Ruby so that I can ascertain whether HDMI will work with the Ruby at all. I think that knowing the limitations of your own system in advance will go a long way to predicting the problems that might arise with the VHD.

What I am wondering is what are the implications inherent in taking the HDMI output of the VHD and feeding it to the DVI input on the projector. Since everything seems to run much better using DVI, might it be a good idea to use a HDMI -> DVI adapter just before going into the display device for those of us who have both HDMI and DVI inputs on our displays?

Also, in regard to feeding 480i over HDMI, it seems that Oppo will be releasing their new player, the 970H, soon (next month?), and one of its main features is its ability to output 480i over HDMI, thus allowing the VHD to do both the scaling and deinterlacing. This will certainly be my next DVD player, as at its $200 price it has a wonderful MPEG decoder and a host of nice features.

My only other question is "When will it get here?" I thought the units were supposed to arrive in the states on Friday, but I haven't heard any confirmations as yet. I'm looking forward to using your new product with great anticipation!
post #79 of 1635
Thread Starter 
Hi Tim, Thanks for your post and also for a great product!

You make a good point - when I was comparing the SD sources before, I forgot that I had the Denon DVD player hooked up to my old processor via component.

I haven't spent much time using component on the VHD yet, as it is a bit more time consuming to get all the levels right.

The VHD is absolutely spectacular at deinterlacing 1080i - I'm watching some of Fifth element from a 1080i tape right now. I'm excited that I'm finally seeing the full potential of my projector. What a great product.

Thanks again!
post #80 of 1635
Quote:
Originally Posted by htguy1 View Post

Hi,

It always amazes me when people try to argue that illegal down loading doesn't hurt anyone! If everyone was honset, non of this would be even dreamed of.


OK, I'm back from Fantasy Island, I know people will be dishonest and steal things, but the real villian is the guy stealing music and movies via the web etc. Sure HDCP is a terrible standard, but there's no need if stealing is not such a problem.

God bless....

Mark

This is probably aimed at me and very offtopic sorry, I am also against misuse of copyright having been in the software and tv production i am for copyright. My point
was and is they are using the wrong tools, the wrong way and aiming at the wrong people. And if you think they are only doing it to protect the people who really make the content (as in the creators) and not the distribution models or other sidetracks you are indeed in Fantasy Island. Stealing is wrong allways but the way they are and have been handling it is based on greed, control/power fantasies and hurting the biggest supporters (the people who buy thousands of dollars of content a year) the most.

Sorry i got sidetracked my comment was aimed at the problem this product might have with hdmi and audio and was more in support of this company than anything else.

Daniel.
post #81 of 1635
Tim, I too am very anxiously awaiting the arrival of your product. I was also under the impression that the vantages were air-shipped on Wednesday to my dealer's distributor but as of today distributor informed my dealer that they did not have a tracking number yet, which indicates that it probably had not been shipped yet.

After seeing rdjam's experiences with it so far, my biggest question, like Bob's, is when will it get here?

It is good to see you post on here again as I, and my Ruby too, am looking very much forward to your product's arrival. My fireball/777ES changer are desparately in need of it.



In regards to the HDCP/HDMI OT, I agree that the people who would steal/pirate content will get around HDCP anyways and the best way to get to them is by suing the pants off of them when they are caught, and by encouraging/ pushing/lobbying legislation that makes it very punitive criminally to do it ... not by making it difficult for law abiding citizens like us - and the many others who will adopt the techology behind us, who are currently paying for it the worst (and the offenders arent.)

Only way to get around this is with a HDMI repeater which I will gladly pay for (along with all the media.)
post #82 of 1635
Can I respectfully request that the OT discussion in regard to piracy please be taken elsewhere? In the HTPC section, we have tons of threads of this type being discussed all the time, so I am sure that you can hash out everything with those guys. I would really appreciate keeping this discussion focused on the Vantage-HD if at all possible.

Thanks!
post #83 of 1635
Hi danielo,

My comments were aimed at no one, though they were inspired by Mark H. expressing his dislike of hdcp. Every time I hear a gripe, it reminds me that none of this would be a problem if there wasn't the theft issue.

(Just think, no HDCP, you could send analoge HD to CRT projectors for years to come, DVD-Audio would have come out a year earlier and probably it would have won the format war and then we would have a viable hi-rez music format...)

GOd bless...

Mark
post #84 of 1635
Hi Bob,

Sorry, you are right, I am OT. I will stay on the Vantage.
post #85 of 1635
Quote:
Originally Posted by timbrooksbank View Post

We are not stating that HDMI is useless, or that our HDMI implementation is useless, but we are observing that some SD-originated sources don't work terribly well on HDMI.

Hi Tim, thanks for the clarification! This was exactly what I had thought. Yes we are all aware of this HDMI issues and obviously this is not Calibre's fault. In fact I'm glad to see that you even provide a "configurable" HDMI mode, repeater or receiver. This configuration option alone shows you indeed have made a lot of efforts to get it work. (If I'm not wrong no other currently available VP/switcher/receiver now ever has such option to configure the HDMI input.)

Quote:


i) Native PAL is 576i and native NTSC is 480/484i ....
Often, HDMI players refuse to output "i" formats on their HDMI connectors, which is very annoying of them since to get best performance you ought to let Vantage-HD do all the processing, including the de-interlacing. This can be a reason for using Component instead of HDMI since you generally have more control of Component via the menus on your DVD itself.
....
We ourselves have tried many DVDs from Denon, LG, Samsung, Toshiba, Neodigits (very problematic!), Panasonic, Sony and several other makes, each with varying results

I'm sure you know right now the only (common) dvd players that output 480i/576i is the pio59/79 (969/989) and the Sony 975. Obviously these 3 players should be the best choice for the VHD in terms of DVD HDMI input. Just curious, out of the brands you listed, Pioneer is conspicuously not present. Does this mean anything ?
post #86 of 1635
Hi,

I am also very interested int he DV79avi compatability with the Vantage as I bought one in anticipation of the Vantage release.

God bless...

Mark
post #87 of 1635
Just to clarify our shipping schedules, we are releasing product daily, but as we explained in our original shipping statement, we have a significant task catching up with the order backlog. Some units shipped last week, some more went yesterday, we are shipping out as quickly as we can, but we stand by our original statement that it will take 3-4 weeks to catch up with our order backlog in full.
post #88 of 1635
Component or HDMI? Well, for me it's SDI, it's simply the best of both worlds.

That leads me to a question about the Vantage-HD: Will the optional HD-SDI add in board feature one or two HD-SDI connectors? I think I'll need two (one for the HD/BluRay DVD player and one for the HD receiver).
post #89 of 1635
Quote:


I think I'll need two (one for the HD/BluRay DVD player and one for the HD receiver).

Where are you going to get an HD-DVD/blu-ray player or HD reciever that outputs HD-SDI? I would very seriously doubt anyone will be doing aftermarket SDI mods on any of these new boxes. I can't imagine that they would make the mistake of exposing the unencrypted signal anymore?
post #90 of 1635
Tim,

Thanks for jumping in the foray here. Looking forward to seeing a Vantage in action..

Quote:
Originally Posted by timbrooksbank View Post

Often, HDMI players refuse to output "i" formats on their HDMI connectors, which is very annoying of them since to get best performance you ought to let Vantage-HD do all the processing, including the de-interlacing. This can be a reason for using Component instead of HDMI since you generally have more control of Component via the menus on your DVD itself.

You have to go to the higher end, generally speaking to get 480i from HDMI. Both 1080i and 480i are the preferred outputs from my DV79avi. There are a few lower end units that do this but they are scarce.


Quote:


ii) Which is better, HDMI or Component? Well, you can argue this forever, we all have our own opinions, but what matters is which works best for you in your own install with your own gear. If you get best picture performance with HDMI then go ahead and use it, but if you get best performance with Component then use that instead.

In our "more is better" world the thinking here is that HDMI is more. More bits may be true but what you see is what counts. My .02 is that each link in the chain determines the final output. Source -> VP -> Reciever -> Display can yield many combinations of results depending what you have at each step and what your settings are for each.
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