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Samsung H710AE??? 4000MRSP - Page 5

post #121 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by gx270 View Post

Lindahl, I'm not sure on the HDCP, but from what I've read DVI cannot output 1080P.

Not true. Check out this link which provides for the maximum resolutions supported by DVI.

John
post #122 of 1071
Kari

I do see RBE but not much. How every it doesnt bother me. The PQ is great, very sharp and great color (waiting on new screen before have Ken Witcomb ISF calibrate) which will get the very last bit out of the projector. I came from a CRT which I had for 7 years and going DLP is a big change is sharpness. There is a lot of detail in the blacks however the blacks are not as black as the CRT so Iam getting a Stewart greyhawk RS screen to help with that. If you have never lived with a CRT FP then a Studiotek 130 or something simaler would be fine. Over all Iam very happy with projector.

Brad
post #123 of 1071
Kari

The one thing I left out is the depth and 3d of this projector are really good. I was afaid I was going to give that up as it turns out its every bit as good as the CRT or even better.

Brad
post #124 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH View Post

Kari

I do see RBE but not much. How every it doesnt bother me. The PQ is great, very sharp and great color (waiting on new screen before have Ken Witcomb ISF calibrate) which will get the very last bit out of the projector. I came from a CRT which I had for 7 years and going DLP is a big change is sharpness. There is a lot of detail in the blacks however the blacks are not as black as the CRT so Iam getting a Stewart greyhawk RS screen to help with that. If you have never lived with a CRT FP then a Studiotek 130 or something simaler would be fine. Over all Iam very happy with projector.

Brad

Hi Brad,

I notice you are choosing a Grayhawk? Is there a reason you are choosing that vs say the Firehawk which has 1.25 gain vs the Grayhawk?
post #125 of 1071
I misquoted Joe on maximum screen size. 96" wide is the size of the Studiotek 130 he uses in his demos. 120" wide Studiotek 130 is the maximum recommended size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

And I think Joe (being a truly SERIOUS av guy) is only interested in fully light-controlled rooms in his thinking and planning. Pity--I appreciate the role for these, but it's just not what I have or want. So in a den with filtered daytime light, and some low lights in the evening (though usually lights out for dvds), it doesn't sound like this pj will be a good choice with a 110" diag (96"W) Firehawk. I think I need ~40 to 50 ftL to satisfy my situation (i.e., something like a good RPTV), and for a 110"diag Firehawk I calculate that I need a pj with ~1200 to 1400 Lumens (CALIBRATED for video) to achieve this, i.e., more than twice that of the 710 (465 calibrated Lumens).

First, Joe's goal was to help create a projector good enough to use in post-production work in Hollywood. That means that in the right environment, it's capable of reference image quality. Like any such product, if you use it in less than optimum conditions, there will be compromises.

Second, 40-50 fL coming from a screen that size is certainly possible, but it would be very uncomfortable viewing in the dark (like opposing cars with their brights on when you're driving at night). You would likely need an expensive 3-chip display to achieve it ($$$).

Quote:


Another point: I coming to understand from a variety of threads, that if one has even only a small amount of ambient light, then the CR is GREATLY reduced from its theoretical max. So there's not much point in having super good CR if it is going to be immediately degraded with a smidgen of ambient light--that better PQ is achieved in these situations by just poring on the Lumens.

So is it true that the 710 is really only a good choice for a totally light-controlled room?

No. What IS true is that for the $3,995 retail price of this product you would be hard pressed to find better performance.


Ken Whitcomb
post #126 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH View Post

I came from a CRT which I had for 7 years and going DLP is a big change is sharpness. There is a lot of detail in the blacks however the blacks are not as black as the CRT so Iam getting a Stewart greyhawk RS screen to help with that. If you have never lived with a CRT FP then a Studiotek 130 or something simaler would be fine. Over all Iam very happy with projector.

Brad


Brad, I'm glad to hear that you are happy! I get my 710AE tomorrow!

I also come from a long CRT background, I started with a Video Grade CRT about 11 years ago and kept that for about 6 years. I replaced that with my current projector, an NEC 6PG.

What CRT projector did you have before? Is your 710 your first digital?

I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to a quiet projector. If the image quality is better, then that's just icing on the cake!

~Jay
post #127 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post

Second, 40-50 fL coming from a screen that size is certainly possible, but it would be very uncomfortable viewing in the dark (like opposing cars with their brights on when you're driving at night). You would likely need an expensive 3-chip display to achieve it ($$$).Ken Whitcomb

Ken, thanks very much for your patient (and gentle) reply to my naive rambles; I'm a RPTV guy (Mits 73"1080p dlp) hankering for a larger screen and trying to learn about FP from all of you here. My goals are very different from most of you in this thread, I believe, who have totally light-controlled rooms and are planning for the most critical veiwing. I suppose I'm just looking for a 'big tv', but one of high quality (and I'm willing to pay for quality PQ). But I'm not interested in the 'bat cave' model (though I'm certainly not criticizing people who want this theater-type set up).

Anyway, re the brightness: I've also been reading over in the Sanyo PLV-70 thread, where people want to put its ~1600 Lumens (calibrated for video!) onto a 2.8 gain Hipower screen, generating ~124 ftL on a 110" screen! And then there are those here on this thread that are aiming for the 'theater standard' of 10 to 20 ftL. I've been thinking that ~ 50 ftL would correspond to a good RPTV, but here you are telling me that this would be too bright to watch in a darkened room. I now watch my Mits 73" dlp in a darkened room, only with a ~12 watt flurescent backlight behind it. So I'm confused! (not an unusual state for me).

Anyway, thanks for your comment, opinions, and suggestions--please keep them coming. (And if my interests are too far out of line with those of people here, I will keep quiet in the future.)
post #128 of 1071
Hi Bill,

I'll just say this in case you didn't think of it...

With front projection it is impossible to project black, black is simply the absence of light. Therefore if you have a lot of ambient light the image will look pretty washed out even with a very bright projector.

Rear projection screens are very dark even in a brightly lit room. That is why they can look good in a bright room.

If you have the space an the money would can do a custom rear projection screen.

You may also want to look at the sony black screen. It may be the best compromise for you.

A projector like the 710AE may not be you best choice because it was designed to work well in total darkness.

A thought about a projector being too bright...

I read here on the forum a while back about DLP and eye strain. I think the conclusion in that long thread was that the eyestrain was not caused by DLP technology, but rather it was caused by a super bright projector on a relatively small screen. The solution was to back light the screen to relieve the eye strain.

You eyes adjust to average light in a room. IF you watch a small TV in total darkness your pupils will open up and the very bright TV will hurt your eyes. When you turn some light on with that same TV your pupils close and your eyes will feel much better.

Same is true with a projector.

One thing you need to remeber.. this is called Home Theater, so you need to have your system set up how you like it.. it's your home! We may try to evangelize you, and convince you that a dark room is the only way to watch a movie, but ultimately you need to do what you want in your home.

~Jay
post #129 of 1071
Jay

I had a Runco 930. Yes this is my first Digital. I have always listened to Ken Whitcomb when it comes to what to buy as he recommends the Samsung. He gets to see a lot of product after calibration in controlled rooms which is hard for me to do living in southern Indiana.

Mitch

For the Grayhawk RS I will be getting is 83"wide or 96"diagonal. The grayhawk will give good colors like the studiotek I have now and a bonus of better blacks which I want. The firehawk is known to have some hot spotting and a smaller viewing cone. The grayhawk has the same 160 degree viewing cone as the studiotek according to Stewarts website. As with the projector, Ken and I have talked about screens which he has seen this projector on both screens (for better example maybe Ken will chime in). I really just want to get the most out of the projector and the grayhawk RS will give me that, and for the size I will have enough light output as well.

Brad
post #130 of 1071
Jay, Thanks much for a very thoughtful discussion. Yes, if I could get a ~90" RPTV of high quality (e.g., maybe with the 1" 1080p dlp chip) in year or so, I would probably prefer it to FP. (But I don't have the arrangement that will allow for a built-in rig; need something like the Infocus 'thin' rptv trick.) But I am intrigued by FP--it does sound like a lot of fun, with the variables of the pj, and the screen!--so will continue to follow developments in it. There are supposed to be some 1080p single chip dlp's coming out later this year, with >>1000 Lumens, at </= $10K, so it will be interesting to see how they are received.
post #131 of 1071
Folks, at one time the Samsung was priced along with such makes as Marantz, Sharp, etc., at or around $12,000, if I remember correctly.

My question is, how well did the Samsung fair, at the time, against those "giants"?
post #132 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpedris View Post

Folks, at one time the Samsung was priced along with such makes as Marantz, Sharp, etc., at or around $12,000, if I remember correctly.

My question is, how well did the Samsung fair, at the time, against those "giants"?

Industry guru Joe Kane consulted with Samsung on this project, with the goal of making the finest single-chip DLP projector possible. The problem was that Samsung had no established distribution channel for such a high-end product. Marketing was basically non-existant, so people bought the established brands they knew and saw in advertising.

Some speculate that Samsung's real goal was to improve their rear-projection DLP engines using what they learned from the colaboration with Joe. As a calibrator, I can certainly attest to their success if that's true.


Ken Whitcomb
post #133 of 1071
I'm confused. In Jason's quick review he says:

On the Samsung, the colors were still extremely vibrant, but there was detail in the image as well. Very impressive. Part of this is I'm sure due to the newer designed color wheel. It offers 2 different shades of each primary color, which lends itself to vibrant, but detailed images.

So, is the color wheel not RGBRGB?

I'm wondering how 710AE compares to the new IN76 from Infocus since their prices are sort of close. From all of the reading I've been doing, it looks like the IN76 will be the quieter of the two, but that the 710's noise isn't much of a problem. I know that my 4805 is too loud for me. My bulb finally went and I'm waiting on the replacement since I didn't buy a spare (idiot!), and I've really noticed a lot more detailed sound coming from all of my speakers. So, this is a really important factor in my upgrade.

The contrasts seem like they'll be similar, even though the IN76 is rated higher is its specs. I'm not sure about the black levels. Is the HD2+ chip in the 710 still a Darkchip 2? Then,
their black levels would be close if not the same, right? And if I'm misunderstanding Jason's statement, and the two projectors have the same color wheel, then after calibration, will the color differences between both projectors be negligible?

And then there's the differences between the 710's video processing versus the IN76's.

I'm really conflicted here. Especially after hearing from previous CRT owners giving the 710 such high praise. Has anyone here seen both of these in similar environment?

I both love and hate this part of the HT hobby.
post #134 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by geocab View Post

So, is the color wheel not RGBRGB?

My information suggests that it's the same color wheel as the original Samsung SP-H700, which is RGBRGB.


Ken Whitcomb
post #135 of 1071
Thanks, Ken. I took a closer look at what Jason said and I think I'm understanding it now. He's saying the first three segments of the color wheel are a slightly different shade of the second three segments. They're still RGB, yet slightly different. It's so simple, yet I couldn't figure that out for the life of me. Sound about right?
post #136 of 1071
Just FYI, I spoke with Jason today and told him that I was ready to order the projector but was a bit conflicted between the samsung and the Runco CL-420 which was a bit more but I would have sprung for it if Jason felt it was a better projector overall, he told me that the Samsung was brighter and had better more vibrant colors, well that sealed it for me and I placed the order today, just thought maybe someone else could use this piece of info.
post #137 of 1071
Is is likely that Samsung will have a 1080p version of this unit a year from now?
post #138 of 1071
This may be a stupid question to some of you...but does the Sanyo z4 even compare to the Samsung 710 in picture quality? I realize they are in different price classes and one is LCD and the other is DLP. I have a z4 now with a 100 inch HCCV screen in a total light controlled room and am wondering how much of an upgrade the Samsung would be? Is it worth trying to convince (I mean beg) the wife for approval? I have never owned a dlp projector...only the z2 and now the z4... Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bill
post #139 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH View Post

Jay


Mitch

For the Grayhawk RS I will be getting is 83"wide or 96"diagonal. The grayhawk will give good colors like the studiotek I have now and a bonus of better blacks which I want. The firehawk is known to have some hot spotting and a smaller viewing cone. The grayhawk has the same 160 degree viewing cone as the studiotek according to Stewarts website. As with the projector, Ken and I have talked about screens which he has seen this projector on both screens (for better example maybe Ken will chime in). I really just want to get the most out of the projector and the grayhawk RS will give me that, and for the size I will have enough light output as well.

Brad

can't wait to hear how it turns out Brad. Since I chose to go 123", I decided to stick with the Firehawk. I hope it was the right choice. Luckily, my room has a narrow viewing angle so it turned out to be perfect for my situation.

I was under the impression that the hot spotting of the Firehawk was due to older gain formulas (when it was up at 1.35 gain). Now, the Firehawk has been lowered down to 1.25 gain. I guess I"ll find out!
post #140 of 1071
Bill, welcome to the forum!

I can't answer your question, but I wanted to ask if you've ever seen a DLP projector before? Just to see if you're susceptible to rainbows or not.

I haven't seen either projector to give you a good answer though.
post #141 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by funlvr1965 View Post

Just FYI, I spoke with Jason today and told him that I was ready to order the projector but was a bit conflicted between the samsung and the Runco CL-420 which was a bit more but I would have sprung for it if Jason felt it was a better projector overall, he told me that the Samsung was brighter and had better more vibrant colors, well that sealed it for me and I placed the order today, just thought maybe someone else could use this piece of info.

it's very good info, thanks!
post #142 of 1071
Just to be sure, I'm going to wait until Jason reviews the Infocus IN76 as it looks like it is comparable to the Samsung H710AE. It costs less, has two digital inputs (HDMI and DVI), and may be a formidable competitor.
post #143 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch P. View Post

can't wait to hear how it turns out Brad. Since I chose to go 123", I decided to stick with the Firehawk. I hope it was the right choice. Luckily, my room has a narrow viewing angle so it turned out to be perfect for my situation.

I was under the impression that the hot spotting of the Firehawk was due to older gain formulas (when it was up at 1.35 gain). Now, the Firehawk has been lowered down to 1.25 gain. I guess I"ll find out!

Really looking forward to hearing how you like the Firehawk with it.
post #144 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Really looking forward to hearing how you like the Firehawk with it.

depending on which projector I get, I'll immediately put a few hours on it and then do the usual Avia and DVE calibrations. Then I'll attempt to do some digi-shots to post up.

I'm assuming that the H710 has 8-bit color processing due to the DVI input? Is this correct? While I'm at it, does anyone think the new IN76 will be a good competitor to the H710?
post #145 of 1071
Mitch

I think you are right on the firehawk. The older one with 1.35 gain was the one I was thinking of.

Brad
post #146 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch P. View Post

I'm assuming that the H710 has 8-bit color processing due to the DVI input? Is this correct? While I'm at it, does anyone think the new IN76 will be a good competitor to the H710?

The Samsung uses 8-bit gamma processing, but look at a gray ramp pattern on it before you let that scare you. An amazing little machine!

The InFocus is cheaper, but it's lack of lens shift would be a deal-breaker for many.


Ken Whitcomb
post #147 of 1071
IN76 has a one-year warranty, H710AE is two-year.

IN76 claims 3000:1 contrast ratio, H710AE is 2800:1. I thought TI's spec for DC2 maxed at 2800:1? Are IF doing something different?
post #148 of 1071
OK quick thoughts
sorry my grammar sucks and I am kinda a scatter brain at writing
also I am sick and UPS didnt get to my door until 8:15pm tonight so just writing quickly

so hooked it up quickly and just put in SW Episode III and a couple other movies I like to use
Master and Commander and Gladiator also the SB version of 5th element just a few choice scenes as I have to get sleep


I have a DT-400 now I am happy with as I have had it long enough to tweak it and play with it to my liking
I also had the Mitsubishi 3000 great machine and prefered it over the Sharp
my real world analogy says with the sharp and the Mits if you had each setup in a dif room and had to walk from room to room it would be hard pressed to say which is better ? you might prefer one over the other ? but me I lean toward the mits ? after a few trips back and forth again ? might make it easier to lean toward the mits but it would be hard
side by side the mits has the advantage but again would be tough to say why and how they are close enough

now if you were to walk from one room to the other with the Mits or the DT-400 and compare it to the new H710 you would say easy hands down the samsung beats them
does not blow them away but close to it when you are comparing these they are close but beats them easy enough you dont need to do any side by side or a/b type comparison and in my eyes easily worth the price over the Mits without hesitation !!!!

everything is better by a good margin
better shadow detail with less noise
contrast
color
skin tones
sharpness ? lens ? reminds me of L glass vs cheap glass for those that shoot Canon this will make sense those that dont its like comparing a $1500 lens vs a $150 lens
way cleaner and way less noise
brighter than the others I have and also a nice brightness not harsh
edge to edge look is nice clean even and sharper
shadow detail is great
dark levels ? I am not seeing why a few other say what they do but I have not seen a CRT set in a long time since my buds had some I have seen so cant say compared to those
compared to the others such as the sharp or Mits
way nicer black levels on this one and for sure more shadow detail but its the color and the clean sharp 3d look that puts it farther ahead than the dark levels and shadow but again I have had my sharp for a while and both these use the same chip and I have tweaked mine a lot
but have to say if out of the box the Samsung is beating it by this much cant wait to play with it more wwhhheeeeee

way more 3d looking for sure
even my wife bless her for living with me this last month heheheh sure others can relate

say in the scene in gladiator with the big guy that comes out of retirement and when they show his helmet OH MAN so much more depth and real look to it switching back for my wife even she understands what I mean by more 3d look

skin tones again OH WOW being a photographer I am used to skin tones and since I am new to PJ world I can say the 5 I have tried out this one is amazing and seems very accurate also looks like a photo shot with L glass over cheap glass so much more detail contrast and depth color saturation etc..

so for me its a keeper and very happy and have to say easily will blow away the Mits without any tweaking out of the box just the quick thx setup to do contrast and brightness
and WOW WOW WOW

now if you order it from AVS asked if you can get it double boxed !!
I so wish they did this as I like to keep my main box in nice condition and also have it clean !!!

mine came with a ceiling mount ? so bonus I guess or ?? wont use it now but might be handy

also got my new PSB 10s speaks for the side tonight I was using straight 2Bs for the sides and back so far sounds way nicer and more open and smooth using a NAD T773 receiver
so double bonus day to update my audio a touch and my new pj

well can try to voice any other thoughts if any one is curious or snap some pics
my screen is a basic matte white setup so have to figure out what screen I want now with budget
quickly put my 2x2 foot samples up of the HCMW and the HP
the HP is the first time I have thought the blacks look good enough I might consider this screen with the other PJs it had such horrid blacks on this screen I thought no way !!! so the H710 holds the darks so much nicer with this screen but without viewing it in whole its hard to say ?
so my black level mind might say this is way ahead of my others with this 2x2 foot sample I was not even thinking of this as a choice really and now its a choice maybe



machine wise its nice size feels good and well made the controls seem solid so far and not cheap and flimsy
focus has nice throw on it so easy to dial it in
even the way the feet adjusters feel are super nice super smooth

so if you are leaning toward the Mits HC3000 or similar type machine and are going back and forth cause of the price in my book its worth it for the color and pic quality over these ? how much over ?? well easily worth it in my book going off what I got it for
not seeing the H78 I cant say but the bulb thing freaked me away ? which I could have seen it but from reading results against the HC3000 and the other HD72 etc.. I think I made the best choice


in quick closing
out of the boxif its this killer and beating my current one I cant wait to spend some time with it
is it worth more than the others such as the mits HC3000 ? yes
now that I have seen it I would even pay retail its that much nicer to my eyes

I can not wait till tomorrow to get some more play time in with it and get a few more movies on get some hours on it and pop in the Avia disc

hope this helps out some of you
post #149 of 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honu View Post

in quick closing
out of the boxif its this killer and beating my current one I cant wait to spend some time with it
is it worth more than the others such as the mits HC3000 ? yes
now that I have seen it I would even pay retail its that much nicer to my eyes

I can not wait till tomorrow to get some more play time in with it and get a few more movies on get some hours on it and pop in the Avia disc

hope this helps out some of you

Honu,

Thanks for the nice review--your thoughts answered some of my concerns, as I was seriously considering the HD72. I'm a bit spooked by two Optoma issues (reset on HD72, bulbs on H78/79). Also considering the IN76 and Optoma 7100, though.

Your direct comparison to the Mits is really helpful, as it seems that PJ is quite similar to the HD72. I'm now really leaning toward this unit, though I'll look for Jason's reviews of the 7100 and IN76 before deciding, though. All in all, I found your review reassuring, as this PJ seems outstanding as reviewed by Jason and others.

KK
post #150 of 1071
Good info, Honu. Thanks for taking the time to share.

For anyone needing more "oomph" for ambient light conditions, this projector and the Vutec SilverStar make a nice combo. Although rated at 6.0 gain by Vutec, Pete Putnam estimates that it's a 3-4 gain. Still not bad considering it's also high-gain with very good very angles.

A couple that had this combo installed (110" diag. screen) reported that with moderate ambient light, it was brighter and sharper than their Samsung DLP RPTV, with similar black levels and much better shadow detail.

Everything has compromises, though. I'm guessing that the shadow detail might suffer a little. And you pretty much have to get the fixed, rigid screen. Dealers tell me that the electric SilverStar screens are highly prone to buckling (waviness).
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