The "Official" Denon AVR-2807 Thread - Page 81

Originally Posted by marlin

The OPPO 981HD plays SACD and DVDA just fine through HDMI. The 2807 will show External In and 5.1 channels In while playing them.

Originally Posted by eawil

I recently purchased a Denon AVR-2807 and got all the speakers connected and calibrated to my liking. There are a couple of things that I don't fully understand, and the manual isn't the most clear. So that my questions actually make a little sense, I should probably say what is connected to the receiver. I have a Wii connected with a stereo connection, an Xbox 360 with a digital optical connection, a DirecTV receiver with a digital optical connection, and a PlayStation 3 with an HDMI connection.

The first bit of confusion is that it seems that when I play the Xbox 360 and DirecTV receivers the Denon automatically detects that the incoming signal is Dolby Digital. This is good, because that is the incoming signal. However, not all incoming signals are actually surround. Sometimes they are two channel PCM (analog signals converted to digital). And sometimes they are 5.1 signals. However, I would like to be able to apply either the Dolby Pro Logic IIx or DTS NEO:6 to these signals so that I can matrix the stereo or 5.1 into the 7.1 speaker system that is attached to the receiver. How do I do this? It appears as though you can apply this by selecting it, but for whatever reason this setting doesn't "stick", and changes once I turn off the receiver. Is there a setting that makes this permenant? I don't want to manually have to go in and change the settings so that it doesn't recognize DTS-ES or Dolby Digital EX signals automatically either. I guess the first question then is, what settings do I need to be looking for to make this happen?

The second bit of confusion that I have is that with the PlayStation 3, I obviously have the HDMI connection carrying the audio. As you are probably aware, the PlayStation 3 can output 7.1 PCM. It can also output DTS and Dolby Digital. Since the receiver can accept all of these over HDMI, I have them selected for output on the PlayStation 3. However, when I get to playing the system it goes directly to 7.1 PCM. Which in and of itself isn't so bad. However, most signals coming from the PlayStation 3 are NOT 7.1, they're usually 5.1. I would like to be able to apply Dolby Pro Logic or whatnot to the incoming PCM signal so that it gets mixed appropriately (similar to mixing a normal Dolby Digltal signal). Is this possible? Or do I need to go in and select the audio output method for the PlayStation 3 depending upon the use (ie if I'm playing Resistance turn on 7.1 PCM, otherwise keep it on Dolby Digtal and DTS)?

Finally, my wife and I have different calibration likings. I like the fact that the Denon has the user buttons at the bottom that let different user configurations to be employed. However, in the manual it is not clear that the different user configurations apply to the actual speaker calibrations. Does anyone know if it does or does not apply to the calibrations? And if so, how to I set them onto the user configurations? Thanks.

I apriciate the help with these questions. Let me know if I need to clarify any points.

Originally Posted by True Fan

What are you talking about ? External In is only shown when the signal comes from Ext In. input (6 analog cables) !

Originally Posted by Kevin12586

Hope that helps some.

Originally Posted by True Fan

As for your question: I don't think you would be able to send the DSD signal (SACDs) through HDMI, as it is available only starting with HDMI ver.1.2a, while 2807 still uses ver.1.1

Originally Posted by stevec325

After some research last night, my understanding is that you do need at least 1.2a. to pass DSD over HDMI. Since the 2807 is a 1.1 flavor - I will be limited to using the EXT.IN. I'll have to pop over the Oppo site & check out the spec's on the dac's. Assuming they are acceptable - I'll do the EXT.IN route. If not, I am thinking about a new player anyway, so I'll see what's out there that will provide best output via EXT.IN - since HDMI transfer is out of the question with the 2807.

Originally Posted by True Fan

Well, that's exactly what I said before, didn't I ?

Originally Posted by eawil

It certainly does. When I get the opportunity later I'll go in and make changes to the input settings. I'll let you know how it goes later today.

Originally Posted by stevec325

So, I'm assuming I'll get a more faithful reproduction using External In, for SACD playback. What *will* get sent over HDMI... and how would that differ from EXT.IN?

1) You cannot send the original bitstream (DSD format) of the SACD through the current HDMI connection. For that you need both devices to be HDMI v.1.2a (or higher) compliant, while 2807 is v. 1.

Originally Posted by True Fan

1) You cannot send the original bitstream (DSD format) of the SACD through the current HDMI connection. For that you need both devices to be HDMI v.1.2a (or higher) compliant, while 2807 is v. 1.1.
And - frankly - only a handful of receivers exist now which are 1.2a or 1.3 compliant
[this situation will radically change later this year]
2) So, the OPPO player gives you the option of internally converting DSD signal into linear PCM (88.2kHZ, 24 bit), and as such sending it through HDMI to receiver. Receiver applies all other DSP processing plus speaker config., channel delays, bass mngmt etc. (from receiver's setup), and then its DACs change it to analog signal, amplify and send to the speakers.
3) If you choose EXT.In connection, all the processing is done in the player, incl. speaker config, channel delays, bass mngmt etc. (from player's setup), and then 6 separate analog signals are sent for amplification only to the receiver.
4) If you have relatively good DACs in the receiver (like in my 4306) the ideal situation is to send the clear bitstream DSD signal to the receiver where everything stays in the digital domain until the last DAC conversion. But - again - it is only possible with connection through: HDMI 1.2a or 1.3, firewire or DenonLink3 (which I'm using).

Is it very confusing ?
[I have impression that it is and many, many people on this wonderful Forum don't get that concept...]

Originally Posted by psujohny

The PS3 I assume is converting dsd to pcm and sends it to the receiver BUT
thats really not negatively effecting the sound of sacd is it ...
( some stand alone sacd players do this anyway, if Im not mistaken )

Originally Posted by psujohny

The PS3 I assume is converting dsd to pcm and sends it to the receiver BUT thats really not negatively effecting the sound of sacd is it ...
(some stand alone sacd players do this anyway, if Im not mistaken)

Originally Posted by stevec325

I believe that is what he was saying.
And, that is my concern/question... is there a compromise in quality between DSD bitstream, and that converted to PCM. I have to believe there is at least "some loss" attributed to the conversion. But, what does that translate into, in the real world? What would someone "notice"?

Originally Posted by SEARCH1990

Don't know if this was asked in this thread. Whenever I select "auto input" for both my dvd player - (hdmi input), or my cable box - (coax 2), it defaults to analog instead of the correct input. both are correctly selected in the digital input section of the setup menu...
Any help greatly appreciated!

Originally Posted by SEARCH1990

Truefan,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I read that in the manual. I re-assigned both inputs, but still defaults to analog...neither device is putting out analog signals (I think), so this one has me stumped...

Originally Posted by True Fan

Theoretically - yes, it's better to send (encrypted) DSD signal until the last decryption, DSP and D/A conversion takes place.
Practically? It won't really matter for the majority of us and we would not hear the difference at all.
And as for the Ext.In connection; that's probably the only situation when quality of (analog) cables really matter !

I suggest excellent (and up-to-date) article in Wikipedia, which explains these things in real detail:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Audio_CD
I did not dare to put any quotes here, as it's full of technicalities
Very good read, though

Kevin- have you verified this by listening to the back surrounds independently? Joe Q reported in an earlier post the exact opposite of what your saying....
I really wish the manual was better in this area.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Q
I am messing about with a 7.1 configuration and am trying to figure out the difference between the various "SB CH OUT" settings.

I will start with these two and later add in the Prologic IIx

NON MTRX
The manual says "Surround channel signal played"
I figured this meant that it would send the Side Speaker Surround signals to the Rear Surround Speakers

MTRX ON
The manual says "Surround channel signal played with discrete matrix processing"
I figured this meant that it would do matrix processing on the Side Speaker Surround signals and send that to the Rear Surround Speakers

I disconnected ALL my speakers except the Rear Surrounds so I could hear the effect of toggling between the various "SB CH Out" settings. The rear suround speakers, NOT the side surround speakers

I played an HDDVD with a TRUEHD audio track via HDMI.

On the NON MTRX setting, I am getting full range STEREO from the 2 back speakers
On the MTRX ON setting, I a, getting full range MONO sound from the 2 back speakers.

What I also noticed was that the audio coming from the Rear speakers had much less 'information' than the side surrounds.
Except for the audibly obvious Stereo/Mono difference, the previous sentance was true for both NON MTRX and MTRX ON settings.

Can anyone shed some light on what the difference between these 2 settings really are?

Thanks

Originally Posted by slouque1

I've had my 2807 now for about 5 months and love it. Recently, though I notice the sound coming from my surround speakers wasn't quite as noticeable as it wasa when I first hooked everything up. I ran the auto setup again and pretty much have it sounding the way I weant again but here is the question I have. I've read where the proper crossover level for the speakers is 80 hz. However when I run the auto setup it sets the crossover to

Front 40 hz
center 100 hz
surround 110 hz
LFE 120 hz

If I go into the setup and change these settings it messdes with the Audyssey Room Eq that was calculated during auto setup. Is there anyway to go and change the crossover setting without messing with the Audyssey setting that were calculated during the auto setup process?

Originally Posted by stevec325

I read somewhere in this thread that the Audyssey settings for Room EQ are not altered by changing the crossover settings. You can verify that by looking at the graph before and after changing your crossover settings.

Ausyssey set my fronts at 60, center at 80, surrounds at 80, LFE 80. I wanted a little more bottom out of my center, so I pushed that down to 60.

I think the 80hz number is a THX recommendation. It way or may not apply to your environment and speakers. I'm guessing that since Audyssey crossed your fronts down at 40, you have LARGE front speakers, did it set them to large?

Originally Posted by slouque1

Thanks for the responses. Yes, the auto setup set the speaker config to large. I have two BP7006's for my fronts. I also read something that said set all speakers to small.

Originally Posted by slouque1

I really need to leave well enough alone befor I f something up.

Originally Posted by slouque1

I really need to leave well enough alone befor I f something up.