Burn-In on an LCD projector??? (panny 700) - Page 2

FYI...

Burn in is real on LCD displays! At my employer, all of our computers have Dell 20.1" LCD diplays. The screen saver isn't designed for 1600x1200 (set up for 1024x768) displays so when it comes on, it displays a slide show with a black border. Well, almost every LCD now has a "ghost" image at the edge of the black border. This is really noticable when you have gray background.

Sincerely,
snooktarpon

I returned my AE900 because of burn in. I don't care what people want to call it (retention, burn in, etc.) it is the same net effect.

I had it one weekend, watched quite a bit of 4:3 material on Friday and Saturday night and then watched Star Wars Episode I. On any light scene, such on the planet where they do the pod racing, the black side bars were clearly evident. I then waited until Sunday and watched episode II and the bars were still there.

It is possible if I had watched no more 4:3 material and watched a bunch of movies, maybe the bars would have faded, but since I watched 90% or more standard def TV, it was very clear that effectively the bars would be there indefinately.

Another example of LCD burn in or persistance. Last September my hard drive crashed. I was tied up out of town so had some guys at work replace the hard drive and reload windows. No screen saver was setup, and I never bothered adding one for a couple months, because LCD's DON"T burn in. After a couple months on one occaission when I was using remote desktop and the whole screen goes teal (start bar goes away), I noticed the green XP Start button was and Windows logo was clearly visible on the teal background. This was around November. After turning on the screen saver and it now being 4 1/2 or so months later, the green start button has faded to the point where it is barely visible when starting a remote desktop session.

My point is this. It might only be persistance, but practically speaking it doesn't matter if you keep doing some activity (such as watch standard def 4:3 material) that keeps making it persist. If you watch a ton of 4:3 material like I do (I put 2000+ hours on a bulb a year, again 90%+ is 4:3) then an LCD is not for you.

So, now I have a 118" 16:9 Carada screen on the wall, with my BenQ 6100 displaying in the middle, while I wait for the release of the Infocus IN76 or some other DLP with a small enough offset to work in my room.

Interesting Tnedator. I'm now wondering if I made a mistake staying with LCD. Unfortunately, DLP rear-projection units give me eyestrain pretty quickly, so I'm afraid the projectors will too. I'll probably keep the 900 and just make sure I don't watch too much 4:3 on it. It is easy enough to stretch the image, though it isn't always pretty. Hopefully I will have all HD stations by the end of the year, so then I won't have to worry about 4:3 nearly as much.

What is interesting is that now my projector is getting image retention in the blue LCD panel after just a few MINUTES of watching, and that is most definitely a new symptom. Plus, areas of the screen that should be white are starting to get blue fringing, like the Blue LCD is just messed up. So I still think that there is a bigger failure beyond simple burn-in going on in my unit.

Yes, it sounds like you have standard image retention/burn in coupled with some type of failure.

I think that one of the reasons many people don't 'believe' LCD's burn in has to do with how they use their projector. Reading this forum, there are a great many people that don't use it as the main TV or watch a large amount of 4:3. Watching a show here or there likely won't be a big deal, watching mostly 4:3 will be.

Before sending my 900 back I even tried using the zoom feature (which cuts off some of the top and bottom of a 4:3 image, but doesn't stretch), because I can't stand a stretched image. However, while most scenes were not adversely affected by the cropping, the image quality suffered from being blown up. Around here my only HD choice is DirecTV, so most of my programming will be SD for quite a while to come.

TI did a study once to promote DLP over LCD. They had several projectors, some LCD, some DLP, and ran them 24/7 for a year, presumably showing the same type of material on all of them, only turning them off to replace the bulbs. The LCD's all had noticable yellowing of the image, while the DLP's were identical (or at least perceptibly identical) to their start conditions.

As for a purely hypothetical explanation, perhaps having the pixels constantly on (black on an LCD is on, white is off - if that is wrong, please correct me) causes the liquid crystals to lose their flexibility, kind of like the old NiCad batteries would if not charged/discharged properly (though they use very different principles of operation). As for the blue fringing, this could possibly be current "leakage" (I don't know if that's even possible, I have never designed an LCD panel) caused by the overly resistive crystals, perhaps very slightly related to the ripple phenomenon noticed when applying pressure to a direct view LCD. Maybe the flickering programs people use to try to fix dead or stuck pixels would help reduce the burn-in.

Well, obviously none of this helps solve the problem, but perhaps it gives someone something to think about.

Interesting. One of the other things I'm seeing is a definite yellowing of the overall image.

Egads. Now I'm wondering if I'm going to have all the same problems with my 900 that I already had with the 700. Maybe these units just aren't cut out to be used as main TV's.

Wow, you watch, on average, 40 hours of TV a week?

Impressive!

Keith

Still debating with myself over whether I keep the 900 or just wait for Visa to pay for the new optical block in my 700. Theoretically, with a new optical block, my 700 should be pretty much good as new, so it seems silly to have paid for the 900.

Does anyone have an idea of what I could get on EBAY for what would basically be a refurbished 700? I don't see any 700's on EBAY right now so getting a calibration is difficult. Apologies if we aren't supposed to be talking prices--I'm just trying to figure out whether it is cost effective to keep the 900. I don't really have any use for a 700 AND a 900.

More my wife than me. I get the old Sony 53" RPTV in my office/computer room at home.

She gets home from work at 3:30 or so and the TV (BenQ 6100 projector with is our main TV) is turned on. It is then turned off between 9:30 and 11:00 most nights. On the weekends, it will get turned on anywhere from 8:00-11:00 am and off anywhere from 9:00 to midnight (or later).

I bought the 6100 in January '04 (received it right before or after the new year) and replaced the bulb in late Jan/early Feb of '05 with 2500 hours on it. My current bulb in 13 months or so has 2700 hours on it. So, the TV seems to be averaging being on between 45-48 hours a week.

The Projector is in the living room, and the kitchen opens up on it, so my wife will watch TV while cooking, cleaning, etc., then there are the movies we watch and Tivo'd shows we watch together.

Needless to say, in hindsight, LCD is not for me both because they DO burn in and since at least according to the TI propoganda, they start to fade after 3000 hours or so. I currently have over 5200 hours on my BenQ, and have only changed the bulb once and blown some dust out a couple times.

I don't know about you guys, but i'm projecting 2.35 :1 movies on zoom with my 900 now. I get a little streched image, but i have : 1st bigger screen area and 2nd no fear of burn in!

Well, I'm convinced that my burn-in is a symptom of a much bigger problem. EVERYTHING is "burning in" now, and it's happening in a matter of mere minutes. If I display a static image for just a minute or two, it stays in the blue LCD for quite a while, causing color distortion all over the place.

I think I just saw the effect the 4:3 area because it was the most obvious. I watched 4:3 material every day for a year and never saw this problem, and then it just seemed to happen over night. I suspect somehow the LCD failed, probably the blue, and this "burn-in" effect is just the symptom of the LCD panel failure.

I don't have any hard evidence to back that up, just my gut feeling on it. I don't think this was some gradual thing that I caused by watching too much 4:3. If anything, the blue LCD gradually failed due to just being used at all in any mode. Or MAYBE the blue LCD failed because it is used the heaviest in creating the black side-bars, so it got the most use while I was in 4:3 mode.

I'm having same blue tinge problem with my PJ-TX10, started with burn in image and now I have a blue tinge on full screen. I called Hitachi customer service to speak with tech on how to solve this problem, they want me to send projector in for service. Projector has 2700 hours, this is 3rd bulb and it has just over 180 hours and warranty is no longer valid (first bulb blew within 2 months). If there is a LCD problem they should replace at their cost not mine.

I had the exact same problem with all of the same symptoms with my Sanyo Z2. Luckily the Sanyos have a 3 year warranty so I got it fixed without having to pay anything. But it needed a new LCD assembly and also some new polarizers. There are lots of threads about people's blue polarizers burning out and that's what tipped me of to what the problem was (I didn't think they would have to replace the LCDs but they did). Now that is is fixed, I am no longer having any of the problems and I take extra caution now if I ever hear the fan automaticcally kicking into high gear (which it does when it gets too hot) I turn it off.

Plus I've still got another year and a half on the warranty if it does ever happen again.

Folks

i posted some pics in the gallery some time ago showing the worsening "blue" ghosts on my display. My pj now has 3600 hrs (on the same bulb, in 18 months - which works out at 5 hrs a day on average - its used as a telly !!)

since i posted the screen now displays a uniformly blue cast right across. all blacks are now blues !!!. the result is that the contrast has gone and my xbox360 looks terrible on it - very washed out.

so i decided to look at the polarizer today. getting it opened up was no problem. However, i notice that only the green polarizer can be readily removed by undoing the polarizer frame attaching screw. Both the blue and red polarizers cannot be removed simply by undoing a screw, they are mounted "floating" in slots in the optical block casing and the optical assembly needs to be completely dismantled in order to remove them !!!! this is a much bigger dismantling task.

however due to my total heavy handedness i thought i could gently lever the blue polarizer out past the two small plastic lugs which retain it.

result = one polarizer with a large crack through it.

i re-assembled it and now have a blue screen of death AND a nice crisp line right down the middle of my screen.

so i need a new polarizer in any case.

but i'm not so sure its JUST the polarizer now and am begining to worry that because i have let it run for so many hrs with a burnt polarizer intially , that the blue panel may actually be damaged now.

I did notice a distinct lack of dust within the optical block and i removed the green polarizer which had no dust.

back to the blue panel. i am advised if this is U/S then its time to throw the pj away as the replacement cost is stupid.

i am now wishing i had bought a DLP. i will not buy a LCD again. even if i had not damaged the polarizer i would still be looking at a fairly heavy service bill for getting the blue screen of death repaired.

anybody got any more experiences of the panny 700 and the blue screen ?

LCD burn in is REAL.
My previous AE100 (already sold cheaply) have big problem with burnin after the projector is used just over 1000 hrs.

Even display a pc screen, will create burnin pattern within "ONE" minute.... such as the task bar and those icons.

I will not purchase ANY LCD projector in the future......

DLP rules!

TI lab test is a fact not myth, I think it let people on the earth knows how bad is LCD projectors.

I think the problem is HEAT, if you try to run a LCD projector more than 10 hours continuously, then actually the LCD panel is broke by heat.

Late to this thread, but I've got a problem with my AE700. It's over 3000 hours, now on the 2nd bulb (< 150 hours). Had a DVR recording a program on timer when I was distracted by a backyard bonfire.

When I got back, the DVR had turned off (expected with the timed recording) and the pj was displaying a solid blue screen (the default for the pj without an input signal). The duration of this display of solid blue was 1.5 hours.

The image is now suffering from burn-in (or "persistence" if you prefer). The major distortions are not as bad as they were, and I've consistently had it soft-off for 20+ hours nightly since this happened 6 days ago.

But while the blue streaks are gone, I still have blue shading on the right side of the display. Very noticeable with b/w movies and PC input.

I'm going to try the full power off for 36 hours. Any other suggestions? I'm actually quite surprised that 1.5 hours of blue would do damage like this.

I posted about LCD burnin/image retention after I bought my AE900 and after watching a couple evenings of 4:3 TV, the sidebars were VERY noticeable when watching Star Wars episode I.

Most people told me I was crazy, and people on Tivo Community got downright nasty when I warned people that were asking about LCD burn in, but call it what you want, if you watch a lot of 4:3 material with sidebars on an LCD, you are asking for trouble.

You are all high. We're not talking computer monitors or RPTVs. These are front projectors. They do not suffer burn-in. Period. Your units must have some other malfunction, but don't call it burn-in. Thanks.

Case in point...

My Epson S1 is now unwatchable after 2300 Hours. It displayes burned in highlights on any bright shade (including flesh tones) and a very yellowish cast overall.

Of course I thought it was the bulb as it was 300 hours past it's nominal life so I replaced it but to no avail (other than an increase in brightness).

From previouse posts I gather that displaying black is the most damaging to an LDC panel. If this is the case I think the damage occured when my wife noticed that the projector was on one morning (displaying black) but we cannot recal for how long. ( 8 hrs? 48hours?) ( hot summer nights).

DLP for me!

Well it seems unusual to me that this has never been discussed anywhere before. On my RPTV, one of the first few pages (in bold letters) of the owners manual talks about burn-in. My Panny AE-900 manual makes no mention of burn-in, so if they failed to advise me of something as harmful as burn-in, they are liable for damages.

Allow me to correct myself: The Panny AE900 owners manual DOES mention burn-in on page 12. So those of you claiming you are seeing burn-in are correct. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...43#post8501743

Anyone want to buy my three-week-old Panasonic AE900?

My Z4 has image retention/burn in, but mine is across the top and bottom as a result of watching alot of 2:35 widescreen movies. I noticed it at about 120 hours. I was watching about 70% at 2:35. I have since tried to watch more 16:9 material. I might notice some improvement, but it is there if you look for it and it is evident after turning off a 2:35 movie. I did not experience this problem with my old lcd projector, a panasonic 75U. Between this and vertical banding I'm thinking my next projector will probably be DLP, although that is a few years down the road.

Oh yeah?
I recommend you to read this post: DLP burn-in (image retention)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=722334
Happy "burning" Fernando