One-and-Only PS3 as Blu-Ray Player Thread - Page 660

Thanks for the reply.
I've always made it a rule of thumb to NEVER download firmware releases that begin or end with "0".

I'll sit tight.

Well said, I'm currently enjoying 2.35 and may wait for 2.5 whatever that is

They are...I was, and I'm enjoying it very much

However this is in the blu-ray players thread and it's mostly a gaming update. The enthusiasm in this particular forum is probably going to be a bit subdued. The folks in this thread were much more interested in DTS HD MA

Brandon

Just got a PS3 added to my setup(Fw ver 2.3x). Currently also have a Pioneer Elite VSX 91 receiver. I'm using a Bose 5.1 speaker setup connected to my receiver. I have my PS3 connected to my receiver Via HDMI.

Any suggestions on what my default settings should be for audio? Should I set the PS3 to LPCM to get 7.1, even if I only have a 5.1 setup? Should I go the bitstream route? What's the best configuration for the receiver to be set to, to get the most accurate sound reproduction in a 5.1 setup?

Thanks for the help and all the advice on the forum.

Michael

I, like you, am a noob to the PS3. You might want to check out the first post in this thread as it will answer most of your questions.

Also check out the PS3 firmware threads. It may save you a lot of headaches down the road.

So I've read the first post and many others here, but something is still not right for my setup. When I have LPCM setup as the HDMI output on my PS3, my receiver sounds like it's muffled and dull. I think the connection is fine, bu tI'm not sure how I should adjust my 91 to make it sound decent. I didn't seem to have these problems before adding my PS3.

So the short answer would be that for lossless codecs (PCM, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD-MA), HDMI audio should be set to PCM. Bitstreaming is a better option for DVD's and lossy codecs (DD+, DTS-core, etc).

If the audio sounds muffled, make sure that you hvae the right audio selected on the BD as well. A lot of them have DD as default.

-Splints

WHOA !!! I'll say !!! -- last time I perturbated, it led to a lot more than bit loss . . . palms getting hairy . . . vision getting blurry . . . must stop . . . M-U-S-T . . . S-T-O-P . . .



Haven't been on the forum for awhile; glad I caught up. Would've almost already downloaded 2.40, 'cept for these caveat emptors -- THANKS, all! Guess I'll wait a bit while we get more info on this most recent update. Wonder how 2.40 might affect the PS3-IR PRO's performance? I really like the Schmart unit; it's not only software upgradeable, but it has worked great in my setup and I don't want to screw-up its capability.

- da Choge

I'm a master perturbator.

I updated to 2.40 yesterday morning and am very happy with the improvements. No problems!

Why are some Playstations having problems with this upgrade yet others are not.....Aren't all of them designed the same way and have the exact same programming in them ?

Anybody else have that problem? I you have another dvd player please check. Take a scene in a 4:3 movie where the image is still, spot something near the side and check if on the ps3 it's at the same distance of the side. And don't use a Criterion they windowbox or something so this doesnt happen with their dvds.

It's possible that a problem during install caused the bricking of systems and not the actual system software. People's systems have bricked before during firmware upgrades, sometimes due to user error. This is a very high profile update, so even if it was user error or hardware malfunction that resulted in these issues Sony is doing themselves a favor by being proactive about it and finding the root of the issue before the issue becomes widespread, if it indeed had the potential to do so.

Other than the IR2BT issue and my keyboard losing it's bluetooth profile with the PS3, I haven't had any software issues. And losing a bluetooth profile has happened in past firmware updates.

Brandon

Well now, that's the question. Considering Sony isn't even sure what's causing the problem, it seems silly for us to speculate on what the cause was. That said , if I worked for Sony and were trying to troubleshoot it, I'd wonder what (if any) devices the borked machines had plugged into their USB ports or if there were any not particularly common combinations of settings they were using (e.g., component video out w/HDMI carrying audio, etc.). The fixed 2.41 update will probably be available in a few days, and I hope they offer some sort of free "speedy recovery" service for those whose machines did get borked by the update.

Hey Kagolu ...

Can FW be downloaded and saved to a USB Drive or Disc? And if a person saves all of the Updates and downloads the latest into their system and finds something a miss; could they then reinstall the previous FW Update they had saved?

Just wonderin'!

Have a Great Day and Holiday!

No. Once you install a new software version, there is no way to get back to any older version.
--Bob

Anyone can explain why the PS3 send YCbCr when set to AUTO and when set to RGB it won`t let bellow black information pass? Tested with VE BluRay patterns.

Set it to "Auto" and then find the SuperWhite setting and turn it to "on."

Brandon

When set to RGB, make sure the "RGB Full Range" setting is set to "Limited" (which is also the factory default setting).

RGB Limited uses "Studio RGB" format where Black = Digital 16 and Reference White = Digital 235. Blacker than Black data goes out in the range from 0-15 and Peak White data goes in the range 236-255.

If you set RGB Full instead, then Black goes out as Digital 0 and Reference White goes out as Digital 255. There is no room for the BTB or Peak White data because no pixel can have a value less than 0 or greater than 255.

RGB Full would typically only be used with RGB displays intended to be used exclusively as computer monitors. It is also sometimes necessary if there is a bug in your display or any intervening video processor.

Also keep in mind that some displays (and video processors) ALSO clip BTB and Peak White data no matter what signal you are sending to them. And some displays clip RGB data but not YCbCr -- or the other way around. So if you are losing BTB when you send RGB data format, the problem may also be in your display.

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That said, the default data format for HDMI to HDMI connections is YCbCr (in particular it is YCbCr 4:4:4). To get that out of the PS3 you can set YCbCr output -- although Auto will usually work just as well. If you use YCbCr output from the PS3, you should also set SuperWhite ON (unless you discover that causes a problem in your display -- which would be rare). That tells the PS3 it is OK to send Peak White data to the display. BTB data should always work in YCbCr data format by default (presuming your display does not have a bug causing it to clip that).

[If you have a DVI display and thus are using an HDMI to DVI cable, then you will likely need to use RGB data format. DVI displays typically insist on RGB data format. DVI displays intended for home theater use should be sent STUDIO RGB (i.e., Black= 16). Some DVI displays will have a setting you need to make to adjust their DVI input for DVD or set top box use, as opposed to computer use. This setting tells the display to expect Studio RGB input. Some DVI displays only work well as computer monitors and thus will not have enough adjustment range to calibrate blacks and whites properly unless you send them Extended RGB (Black = 0). But if you send the display Extended RGB (what the PS3 calls RGB FULL) then there will be no BTB or Peak White data in the signal, again because there is no room for pixel values below 0 or above 255.]
--Bob

I am confused with the Superwhite. I fall under this category. I don't recall what my SuperWhite setting is. So If using a DVI display with HDMI to DVI adapter and RGB setting at Limited, what should Superwhite be set to?

If I recall correctly, I don't believe it matters -- i.e., I think it only applies to YCbCr output, but set it to ON anyway. Using the Digital Video Essentials Blu-Ray calibration disc you can tell whether Peak White data is getting to your display. Check the gray scale ramps and look for the 3 marker dots at the white end. Those mark Reference White. Now check to see if you can distinguish the white steps beyond those marker dots as being whiter (brighter) than the white where the marker dots are.

You may need to lower Contrast (white levels) in your display so that it has the light generating range to display Peak Whites as whiter than Reference White. Every display has an upper limit on light output and if you have Contrast cranked too high the display will have to "crush" whites beyond some level -- i.e., it can't put out any more light so you can't distinguish whites above that point. It is even possible to have Contrast so high that the display has to crush whites BELOW Reference White. So lower Contrast, do this test, and if you can see Peak White data, use that as another test for limiting how much you raise Contrast when setting up your black and white levels. Turn SuperWhite on or off for comparison, but as I say I don't think it should make a difference for RGB output.

----------------------------

Please note also that you can't similarly switch between Limited and Full RGB for comparison. Switching between Limited and Full ALSO requires that you re-adjust black levels (Brightness) and white levels (Contrast) in your display to match. Many displays have the calibration range that you can use EITHER Limited or Full RGB, and once you adjust their Brightness/Contrast properly each way THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE in overall light output or black levels. That is, if you see near blacks as too dark or too washed out (gray) after switching between Limited and Full that simply means you have not yet properly reset Brightness/Contrast in your display to match with each setting.

However, even if your display CAN handle either Limited or Full (i.e., even your display has enough Brightness/Contrast range to work either way), Limited is what you should use so that the PS3 can send out BTB and Peak White RGB data.
--Bob

Yes, Super White only applies to YCbCr mode, but (despite its name) it also controls whether BTB is output. If Super White is off, both BTB and WTW are clipped. With a calibration disk it's usually easier to see the BTB patterns than WTW.
...

Unless it changed in firmware 2.4, the PS3 never outputs BTB or WTW in RGB Limited mode, they are always clipped.

Thanks for the clarifications! I use YCbCr myself (with SuperWhite ON).

So I take it you can't get BTB or Peak White *AT ALL* with RGB output from the PS3 -- because RBG Full will also clip them? That's silly of them.

Fortunately I have a video processor between my PS3 and my DVI display so I can use YCbCr (with SuperWhite ON) from the PS3 and still get proper Studio RGB (with both BTB and Peak Whites) sent to my display.

In this day and age, sending mal-formed RGB out from the PS3 is inexcusable. Sony should be ashamed.
--Bob

I agree that they should pass BTB/WTW in RGB Limited mode (I can't imagine it would cause a problem for any display device), but I think overall Sony have done quite well in providing the options they have (much better than Yamaha who's HDMI 1.3 receivers clip BTB/WTW even in YCbCr, but that's another story).

It all depends on how the TV accepts RGB input. I have an older 720p Mitsi and when it is sent RGB it treats it as a true Computer signal and therefore I have to have my RGB set to Full or it crushes blacks and whites. However, I recently calibrated a newer Mitsi 1080p TV and the owner had his PS3 set to RGB out for Video and with it set to limited, his newer Mitsi treated RGB more like a TV should and with it set to limited, it took 0-15 as below black and he also go whiter than white.

The PS3 is not the issue, it's how the TV interprets the signal. Some TVs just don't handle BTB or WTW appropriately and it also depends on the output signal to the TV as well.

There was a very popular HDMI V1.1 output chip that offered the option to convert YCbCr data format to RGB on output -- to send to DVI displays for example -- but had a well-known bug that meant it clipped BTB and Peak White if you ever asked it to do that.

It was in use for several years, very popular as I said, and there was a well-known workaround for this issue which was simply to do the conversion from YCbCr to RGB yourself before feeding the output stream to that chip -- a trivial calculation. Nevertheless, many upscaling standard DVD player makers didn't bother to do that, largely because they didn't really consider DVI displays something they cared much about.

But the PS3 is HDMI V1.3, and obviously uses a newer generation of HDMI chip. It is SO EASY for them to get this right, it is beyond the pale that they didn't get it right to begin with or have a fix after this many software releases. I presume they haven't bothered because their compatibility games that send out RGB don't happen to have any BTB or Peak White imaging data.

I'm not a fan of Sony products in general and consider it something of a fluke that the 40GB PS3 works as well as it does as a Blu-Ray player. But for folks who must have RGB output, this is a good reason to get a different player.

As I said, I feed YCbCr from my 40GB PS3 to an Anthem Statement D2 processor and it works very well indeed for me used this way, so this is not an issue for me (and probably why I haven't twigged off on this bug in the PS3 prior to now). But SHEESH! I mean if it were hard to fix this it would be one thing, but it isn't!
--Bob

So you are saying that the PS3 *DOES* properly send out BTB and Peak White data if you select RGB Limited output?

OK, somebody is right and somebody is wrong here.
--Bob

OK, so I just tested this myself.

I have the PS3 connected HDMI to HDMI into my Anthem Statement D2. I *KNOW* the Anthem Statement D2 properly receives and passes on both BTB and Peak White data in a properly formatted Studio RGB input signal. I have a Pioneer Elite 59avi standard DVD player and that's what it sends out. (I normally use it at HDMI 480i which requires some special settings in it, but this is also true for HDMI 480p and for upscaled output from it.)

With the D2 I can also confirm whether the input data format is RGB or YCbCr. So I can confirm the data format being received in the D2 is indeed what we are expecting the PS3 to be sending out.

I used the Digital Video Essentials Blu-Ray calibration disc in the PS3 as the source.

Viewing their 3 bar pluge chart (one bar of which is BTB), and with Brightness cranked up as necessary to reveal BTB data:

1) YCbCr 4:4:4 1920x1080p/24 SuperWhite ON passes BTB

2) YCbCr 4:4:4 1920x1080p/24 SuperWhite OFF does NOT pass BTB

3) RGB 1920x1080p/24 RGB Limited does NOT pass BTB

4) RGB 1920x1080p/24 RGB Full does NOT pass BTB

The results for the RGB tests were done with the D2 set to expect Studio RGB input, but setting it to expect Extended RGB input doesn't change anything.

I did not separately check for Peak White.

So kriktsemaj99 is correct. You can't get BTB from the PS3 in RGB output, AND you have to set SuperWhite ON to get it with YCbCr output. It is likely the same is true for Peak White but I didn't check for that.

nicholc2, I'm not sure what happened in your most recent calibration to confuse things, but I guarantee that my D2 handles Studio RGB input properly. It is not my D2 that is clipping BTB in the case of RGB output from the PS3. The PS3 just isn't sending it out.

NOTE: I currently have the V2.40 software (recently retracted) installed on my PS3.
--Bob

This happens with widescreen divx/xvid material as well. It's annoying as all hell.

Bob, are you sure your TV can pass below black when the input signal is RGB? The Mitsi DLP I calibrated was set to RGB output for Video out and to limited and the TV displayed BTB and WTW info. All I know is what I saw. Not sure what the difference was in the configuration, his PS3 was passing through his Onkyo receiver into his TV via HDMI.