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One-and-Only PS3 as Blu-Ray Player Thread - Page 944

post #28291 of 32083
I've been finding my PS3 turned on at random times lately - only notice it due to the fan noise (I have one of the older 80G models). At first I thought my wife was somehow inadvertently turning it on, but after grilling her (I stopped at waterboarding her), I felt sufficiently assured that she in fact does not know how to turn it on, and there is no reason at all for her to get into the cabinet in which it resides. I dont know if its coincedence or not, but this seemed to start a month or two ago after I downloaded the latest software update. I dont have any other remotes that operate via bluetooth. The only items that have recently come into the house that have bluetooth are my new phone, and the wifes new car....but those wouldn't be sending a signal out would they?
Any ideas?
post #28292 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by JThiessen View Post

I've been finding my PS3 turned on at random times lately - only notice it due to the fan noise (I have one of the older 80G models). At first I thought my wife was somehow inadvertently turning it on, but after grilling her (I stopped at waterboarding her), I felt sufficiently assured that she in fact does not know how to turn it on, and there is no reason at all for her to get into the cabinet in which it resides. I dont know if its coincedence or not, but this seemed to start a month or two ago after I downloaded the latest software update. I dont have any other remotes that operate via bluetooth. The only items that have recently come into the house that have bluetooth are my new phone, and the wifes new car....but those wouldn't be sending a signal out would they?
Any ideas?

I have been having the same problem with my Slim! I had posted about it in the Slim or FAQ thread but nobody else was having that problem so I thought it must be the kids somehow getting to the remote even though they normally wouldn't be near it. So maybe something more is going on indeed!
post #28293 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post


You are seeing motion blur because you have an LCD. If it bothers you you should swap for a plasma or a higher end LCD, or alternatively turn off/adjust frame interpolation on your set.


FRAMES PER SECOND does not = refresh rate.

You want your display to have a refresh rate that is a whole multiple of 24 (i.e. 48/72/96/120/240) for BD material and to interpolate frames (including just repeating them 24x5 = 120) in a way that is fluid and doesn't look like judder. Again in MHO most LCD sets can't do this right.

Sets that take 24p and convert it back to 60 and then convert it to 120/240 etc often exhibit this problem. You may want to post in the owners forum in the Display forum and see if other owners of your particular panel have any solutions for your motion blur issues.

Thanks for the help. However it was my understanding that the Ln52b750 is a higher end LCD.
post #28294 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

It's pretty well unlikely that lcd motion blur would have any relevance on program material that is natively plodding along at 24 fps on a display that is supposedly good enough to render "240 Hz" motion.

It's possible that you may not like the visual effect that occurs in 240 Hz mode, in which case you can just disable it (or maybe set to a more mild setting). Genuine motion blur issues on lcd's have probably gone out 2-3 generations ago (and arguably were minimally relevant, if not, irrelevant for 24 fps-based movies even then). Offering up plasma as the fix-all cure is pretty ridiculous, given that you just open yourself up to a different range of video issues. Arguably, those have been greatly minimized 2-3 generations ago, as well. So you should be willing to give due credit both ways or acknowledge that issues exist on both sides of display technology. Can't just pick and choose what to acknowledge while dismissing other effects, as it serves a pet display technology.

Ah, very interesting.

Back when I got my first HD LCD I scoured AVS for information. There was tons of talk about motion blur, a lot sounding like it made things unwatchable. Along with the whole LCD don't do black.

So even on a 5 year old LCD, I can see the most inky black one can have... best example if look at referees pants in football, hockey. Or certain teams uniforms... you just can NOT get any "blacker." Yes, when looking at something done on film, backs CAN be a tad gray and not as inky black. BIG difference between video and film, eh? So contrary to what everyone KNOWS, an LCD sure is capable of the most inky blacks one can get.

I DO watch a fair amount of sports, but I really had issues trying to "see" motion blur. One of the "experts" said to watch a basketball game and watch the crowd as the camera quickly pans during a fast break. Welllll, yes the crowd was blurry, but then again one had to carefully WATCH the crowd and thus miss what was going on ON the court. Not to mention that I certainly have seen many movies where fast camera pans make for blurry images.

Let's say those experiences make me skeptical about some of the claims too many make completely on face value.

Oh, the other is black crush. I was upset when I got my first LCD because shadows got more blocked up than what I had been used to (ha, still image background, photographer). Read all about it, black crush. Because of the newness of going HD, I didn't venture into a movie theater for a good 6-8 months. From the first reel, I kept muttering "oh my goodness, tons of "black crush." Then it dawned on me that the most likely thing was this is EXACTLY how the filmmaker wanted it to be. I have a pal who is a somewhat well regarded independent filmmaker... and she does get complaints... because she WANTS to have a very hi-key (contrasty), over-saturated look to her films. Red almost bled. We had a good chat... this is EXACTLY what she wanted.
post #28295 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by JThiessen View Post

I've been finding my PS3 turned on at random times lately - only notice it due to the fan noise (I have one of the older 80G models). At first I thought my wife was somehow inadvertently turning it on, but after grilling her (I stopped at waterboarding her), I felt sufficiently assured that she in fact does not know how to turn it on, and there is no reason at all for her to get into the cabinet in which it resides. I dont know if its coincedence or not, but this seemed to start a month or two ago after I downloaded the latest software update. I dont have any other remotes that operate via bluetooth. The only items that have recently come into the house that have bluetooth are my new phone, and the wifes new car....but those wouldn't be sending a signal out would they?
Any ideas?

Could it be that she is moving the controller and inadvertently hits the PS3 key?

I have the PS3 set to shut down after one hour of non-use. And here is a trick I came across... with such a setting, it WILL shut down during downloads (not a major issue as it will resume when the unit is powered back on). HOWEVER, if it is downloading and you use the XMB to shut the system down, you'll get an option to wait for downloads to finish. Cool. BUT it freaked me the first time because the next time I did NOT see the installers for the several demos I had set to d/l. I then discovered it not only waited for all to finish, BUT it installed all of them!
post #28296 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

It's pretty well unlikely that lcd motion blur would have any relevance on program material that is natively plodding along at 24 fps on a display that is supposedly good enough to render "240 Hz" motion.

It's possible that you may not like the visual effect that occurs in 240 Hz mode, in which case you can just disable it (or maybe set to a more mild setting). Genuine motion blur issues on lcd's have probably gone out 2-3 generations ago (and arguably were minimally relevant, if not, irrelevant for 24 fps-based movies even then). Offering up plasma as the fix-all cure is pretty ridiculous, given that you just open yourself up to a different range of video issues. Arguably, those have been greatly minimized 2-3 generations ago, as well. So you should be willing to give due credit both ways or acknowledge that issues exist on both sides of display technology. Can't just pick and choose what to acknowledge while dismissing other effects, as it serves a pet display technology.

Mr. Hanky:

24fps plodding? Hm. Seems good enough for the film industry and human eye for the last, oh, century plus (1896 and Edison's Vitascope - let us forget about the 16fps debate before then when cameras were hand cranked shall we)? Edison had always advocated for a 48 images per second - with shuttered projection - as the minimum the needs for a fluid image. Why do we need 5 or 6x that for 24fps sources on a display now? It creates a whole new level of artificial images on the screen. 2-3 images per second is fine. 5-10 is overkill.
Again this discussion is for BD/24p output from a PS3 (NOT for 1080/60i television or other 1080/60 native sources that may benefit from 120hz frame interpolation on some displays).

This obsession with turning movies into anything other than 24fps is just that. Scientifically, even those sensitive to slower frame rates do just fine with 72hz. I don't hear a clammor about making film reels (or digital projection) exceed 24 frames per second (doubled to 48 with shuttered projection).

Perhaps you should go back and re-read my post. I don't offer Plasma as a cure all. In fact I suggested multiple potential cures including:

1) turn off frame interpolation (and yes that wonderful LCD cure all of interpolating 10x the information between frames is "glorious" and a real gimmick to sell displays to those that don't know better);
2) considering a plasma set (and yes they have potential issues for most inexperienced users who don't understand image retention and other issues and they aren't so darn green in this tree hugging world);
3) Turn off video processing features (that probably wasn't clear); or
4) consider a better display (LCD or Plasma) that does not exhibit this poor performance.

And for the record let me state that IMHO backlit LCD techonology will never look as good as a cell level engergized display (CRT/Phospor cell; Plasma; or OLED) no matter how many LEDs you put in it or how much local dimming you provide. LCDs also, no matter how fast they refresh and repeat the same image over and over (let's go for 480hz so we see the same image 48 times per second why don't we) don't have the pure refresh rates of Plasma and other technology. While they are great for newbies who don't know how to protect a set from image retention or children who don't care as they play their PS2/3 etc. they pale in comparison to other technologies for gaming - at least for those of us old enough to have been gaming when CRT technology was popular.

Motion blur is still an issue IMO. 90% percent of LCD sets are unwatchable for me when their frame interpolation is ON or when fast sports are displayed - they create a new problem that is worse than motion blur with 10x or 20x the original image each second. There is NO comparison to a CRT or Plasma based display that displays the original image exactly as intended (Video at 60fps Interlace or progressive and film sources at a 2-3x multiple or with proper 3:2 pulldown of the original 24fps source).

Much also depends on the display and the processing it imparts on the images. That was my entire point for our OP - not that Plasma or LED/LCD etc (with the right processing applied) may be better or worse for his particular needs.
post #28297 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaycoolJr View Post

Thanks for the help. However it was my understanding that the Ln52b750 is a higher end LCD.

WaycoolJr:

I don't want to get off topic here since it may be a PS3 settings issue...but what video processing do you have ENABLED on your display?

Have you tried the set with them all disabled? Honestly I would try the set with the 240hz frame interpolation feature turned off. I can't find your set on the Samsung website so I can't help you more. There is a forum here on AVS with other owners who can likely help.

You do have a higher end LCD but in 2008 was still a mainstream product. Some higher end units that I was recommending - if that were an alternative - would include Sony XBR8 or XBR9 or some of the higher end and newer Panasonic Plasmas. For BD souces you should not need to buy a new set...

Your working with a capable set - known to have some image lag but from postings here but it is also a decent but not extraordinarlly popular gaming set (from what I can tell in the 300+ page owner forum). You likely need to turn off or significantly reduce video processing and/or FRAME INTERPOLATION when displaying BD sources. That should improve the image on BD24p sources and will likely kill the lag/or blur you may be seeing.

Good luck. The PS3 is quite a capable BD player. It has been in my theater since 11/2006. It was a steal back then (I paid well over $700 for mine) and for the value it has given I haven't looked back. I've had plenty of others (Panny, Pioneer) but still love the PS3's very neutral output and feature set.

It's not a Pioneer BDP-09FD or the much loved Oppo-80/83 but darn close on BD and it plays PS2/PS3 games and surfs the web, plays audio and video from my connected PC's and is much faster than most anything still available to date.
post #28298 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaycoolJr View Post

If you have a problem with this thread then do a sig check. Other than that, here is my problem.

My TV is a Samsung LN52B750 (a 52" 240hz LCD). Every time I watch a blue ray, it is with my PS3, which is my one and only blue ray player for now. For some reason, when the Blue Ray movie starts, it says "1920x1080@60hz." I assume that it is trying to tell me what it will actually be playing at?

Then, right before the movie starts, it slips in a quick "1920x1080@24hz" lol. So it basically screwed me out of some hz. And quite frankly, I find it noticeable. I feel like I can see some motion blur and it's bothersome. I realize the playstation may not be capable of displaying even 120hz. Is this in fact, the case? And why does it downgrade at the last second?

A lot of "my display is better than yours" nonsense going on here which should probably be kept out of this thread and back in the Displays forum where it belongs.

Most likely the problem you're experiencing is some sort of motion interpolation feature on your set. I have this feature on three of my flatscreens and I have it turned off on all of them. To me, it's pretty much a gimmick designed to sell more HDTVs and which doesn't actually improve the viewing experience, but rather, takes away from it. Does your Blu-ray movies look like they were shot on video? If so, then motion interpolation is most likely the culprit.

Turn it off and the only "motion blur" you'll see watching a Blu-ray is something that is actually from the movie. And thankfully those films will start looking like "films" again.
post #28299 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Could it be that she is moving the controller and inadvertently hits the PS3 key?

I thought that at first also. But it has happened when she isn't around too.

I posted a thread on the PS forum on this, and the possible answer's so far are 1) Some routers have buggy "Wake on LAN" implementations that trigger the PS3 to switch on remote start, and 2) remote start on your Wifi connection (dummy here: is this the same as #1?), and 3) auto turn on, set to on in remote play. I wont be able to check any of that for a day or two.
post #28300 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

First why do you have 24p direct set to 60 hz? That I would think disables the PS3's 24fps sync on 1080p material....

Could that be messing with the handshake otherwise?

The Panasonic G10 exhibits flickering in the only other 24p mode (48Hz) so I've decided to disable it and just use 60Hz mode. I do not believe it's causing my problem as I've seen the darkened picture issue when using 48Hz mode as well.
post #28301 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

Mr. Hanky:

24fps plodding? Hm. Seems good enough for the film industry...

Yes, it is plodding, whether the film industry is ga-ga over it or not. Mathematically and technologically, it is a slooooow standard for video. That is entirely different from prevailing tastes and presentation preferences of the day or even if the Pope declares 24 fps as God's intent. Consequently, it is child's play to render for any modern lcd, let alone one that is designed to operate at 240 hz (a whopping 10x the speed of the poky film standard). Your motion-blur theory for this scenario is highly suspect. Sorry to say.

60 hz sports programming is certainly a different animal for motion blur, but we are and have been discussing film operation at 24 fps. Hence, bringing lcd "motion blur" into the topic, only to give plasma a plug, was simply unwarranted. Even your explanation for 240 synthesized frames of motion is flaky. The relative motion of objects on-screen are not moving any faster at 24 Hz, 240 Hz, or even 24,000 Hz, such that display-limited motion blur would become any more likely (unless you are watching all of your movies in fast-forward). They are, however, moving in finer increments, which is the whole point of 120/240 hz motion processing.
post #28302 of 32083
I'm sure this is here somewhere but I can't find the answer. I am sure I have read somewhere that the PS3 Slim has a difference to the way it carries audio through either Optical or I think it was HDMI, compared to the PS3 Fat?
post #28303 of 32083
A fat older PS3 cannot bitstream lossless audio to an audio processor via HDMI but a PS3 slim can.
post #28304 of 32083
Right, so in laymans terms that means?
post #28305 of 32083
It means a fat older PS3 cannot bitstream lossless audio such as Dolby True HD or DTS HD-MA to an audio processor (AVR or pre-pro) via HDMI but a PS3 slim can.

With credit to JOHNnDENVER
post #28306 of 32083
It means to hear lossless audio (TrueHD or DTS-HD), the fat PS3 must do the audio processing before it is sent to the amplifier. Linear pulse code modulation (LPCM) must be selected on the PS3. You must have an HDMI connection for lossless audio.

If you do this, since your amp does not do the decoding you will not display a lossless audio light.
post #28307 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR View Post

The Panasonic G10 exhibits flickering in the only other 24p mode (48Hz) so I've decided to disable it and just use 60Hz mode. I do not believe it's causing my problem as I've seen the darkened picture issue when using 48Hz mode as well.

Wow - 48hz is the only option for a 2009 G10 Plasma. That is just nuts. My old Panny PT-AE900U had that option back in 2005.

I read the manual myself and I can't believe it doesn't do 3x at 72hz.

My only other recommendation would be to swap cables. Try a forum sponsor or Belkin (if you have a Sam's Club nearby their Belkin cables work great and
8 feet runs a mere $19.95). I use them in all of my gear and they easily best some other brands that cost 8x as much (and will remain nameless).
post #28308 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

Wow - 48hz is the only option for a 2009 G10 Plasma. That is just nuts. My old Panny PT-AE900U had that option back in 2005.

I read the manual myself and I can't believe it doesn't do 3x at 72hz.

My only other recommendation would be to swap cables. Try a forum sponsor or Belkin (if you have a Sam's Club nearby their Belkin cables work great and
8 feet runs a mere $19.95). I use them in all of my gear and they easily best some other brands that cost 8x as much (and will remain nameless).

Yeah, the 48Hz only option for 24p is now my only complaint of the G10 since they released the firmware to fix the THX mode. I would have had to spend hundreds more for a V10 to get the better 96Hz mode. Paying that much more just wasnt worth it IMO for a single feature.

Anyways thanks for the suggestion to try a different cable. I dont believe that's the culprit but I will try to borrow a cable from a friend at some point to try it. Only challenge is I cannot regularly reproduce the problem.
post #28309 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyaDawn View Post

................
Most likely the problem you're experiencing is some sort of motion interpolation feature on your set. I have this feature on three of my flatscreens and I have it turned off on all of them. To me, it's pretty much a gimmick designed to sell more HDTVs and which doesn't actually improve the viewing experience, but rather, takes away from it. Does your Blu-ray movies look like they were shot on video? If so, then motion interpolation is most likely the culprit.

Turn it off and the only "motion blur" you'll see watching a Blu-ray is something that is actually from the movie. And thankfully those films will start looking like "films" again.

Bingo....I believe you nailed it Kya. However, almost all of my viewing guests prefer (actually..insist) that AMP (auto-motion plus) to be ON for most CGI based movies (Sin City,Monsters Inc.,etc.) for that live video/3D high pop effect that only certain LCD,s can provide, regardless of video artifacts that may be a result of such processing..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

.......................

60 hz sports programming is certainly a different animal for motion blur, but we are and have been discussing film operation at 24 fps. Hence, bringing lcd "motion blur" into the topic, only to give plasma a plug, was simply unwarranted. Even your explanation for 240 synthesized frames of motion is flaky. The relative motion of objects on-screen are not moving any faster at 24 Hz, 240 Hz, or even 24,000 Hz, such that display-limited motion blur would become any more likely (unless you are watching all of your movies in fast-forward). They are, however, moving in finer increments, which is the whole point of 120/240 hz motion processing.

Agree with you somewhat Mr.H...however a large part of the problem is the confusion with that 60 or 120Hz and now 240Hz screen refresh rates, which should not be confused with pixel refresh (which is the REAL blurring factor), and which should also not be confused with motion processing.
The 120 or newer 240Hz refresh only serves as sort of a 'container' from which motion processing can be done. Samsung calls their frame interpolation as auto-motion plus (AMP). It was originally meant to be used only for fast moving sports....to provide a smoother video.
AMP (or whatever the other mfg's call it) should be able to be turned off completely, whereas the 120Hz and/or 240Hz refresh will remain (and that's certainly not a bad thing).

So what does all this have to do with the PS3?
Not much...only to the effect that to get the best viewing experience the BD movie should play at 1080p/24, which the PS3 can provide very nicely, and to do that the viewing panel should have a screen refresh at some multiple of 24, with 72Hz being the minimum.[most better LCD sets do 120Hz and some higher end sets do 240Hz, and I believe some plasmas actually do 600Hz refresh).
post #28310 of 32083
1080i for intro/previews etc. followed by 1080p24 for the main feature is normal behavior for the ps3. None of the rest of this discussion has anything to do with the ps3.
post #28311 of 32083
Is it worth to upgrade to ps3 slim? Some people wrote that when ps3 bitstreams the sound it sounds louder and better, other says there is no difference.. So i'm thinking of selling my fat and buying slim, but i'm not sure is it worth the extra money
post #28312 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturnas View Post

Is it worh to upgrade to ps3 slim? Some people wrote that when ps3 bitstreams the sound it sounds louder and better, other says there is no difference.. So i'm thinking of selling my fat and buying slim, but i'm not sure is it worth the extra money

i was considering the same thing although i'd hate to give up my ability to play SACD
post #28313 of 32083
There should be no quality difference after you level match (raise the volume to compensate for the volume difference).

That is, unless your receiver handles PCM and bitstream differently.

For example, I personally know that my receiver, a Sony 5300ES, has the bass level about 3dB too low with PCM. I found this using the Avia test disc, which sends bass through each channel (not LFE) to test bass management. It's encoded in Dolby Digital, and When switching between bitstream and PCM on my "fat" PS3, the bass drops 3dB on PCM. So I know that when I watch Blu-rays in PCM on my unit, I have to raise the subwoofer level 3dB.
post #28314 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturnas View Post

Is it worth to upgrade to ps3 slim? Some people wrote that when ps3 bitstreams the sound it sounds louder and better, other says there is no difference.. So i'm thinking of selling my fat and buying slim, but i'm not sure is it worth the extra money

Some people think louder=better. Other people understand that there's a volume control.

Save your money.
post #28315 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturnas View Post

Is it worth to upgrade to ps3 slim? Some people wrote that when ps3 bitstreams the sound it sounds louder and better, other says there is no difference.. So i'm thinking of selling my fat and buying slim, but i'm not sure is it worth the extra money


In my opinion, I do notice a difference in the colors also. The colors do seem to be richer (more vibrant) to me on my 56" Sammy DLP
post #28316 of 32083
Ok I just sold my PS3 40gb and want a new PS3. I really only sold the old one due to hard drive storage it worked great. Right now at Frys they have the 160gb fat (also comes with Unchartered Drakes Fortune) and the 120gb slim at the same price. I want the slim obviously as it is the newest model but is it realy any better than the 160gb model. Space is not an issue so the size isn't a concern. It will be used 50/50 movies/games so the blu ray portion of it is important. I have a Yamaha V765 avr and Klipsch speakers which means my system does a great job with the audio. Bottom line is the new 120 a better buy than the older 160 for my purposes?
post #28317 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshaws21 View Post

Ok I just sold my PS3 40gb and want a new PS3. I really only sold the old one due to hard drive storage it worked great. Right now at Frys they have the 160gb fat (also comes with Unchartered Drakes Fortune) and the 120gb slim at the same price. I want the slim obviously as it is the newest model but is it realy any better than the 160gb model. Space is not an issue so the size isn't a concern. It will be used 50/50 movies/games so the blu ray portion of it is important. I have a Yamaha V765 avr and Klipsch speakers which means my system does a great job with the audio. Bottom line is the new 120 a better buy than the older 160 for my purposes?

Why didnt you just stick a larger HD in your old one?
post #28318 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by shabre View Post

In my opinion, I do notice a difference in the colors also. The colors do seem to be richer (more vibrant) to me on my 56" Sammy DLP

i'm curious about this. what could be causing this? i am holding on to my old Ps3 60gb SACD model because i love sacd but if i knew there was an actual PQ upgrade with the slim, i'd have some thinking to do......
post #28319 of 32083
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

i'm curious about this. what could be causing this? i am holding on to my old Ps3 60gb SACD model because i love sacd but if i knew there was an actual PQ upgrade with the slim, i'd have some thinking to do......

He told you what's causing it ... his opinion.

post #28320 of 32083
just curious if anyone else who switched to a slim noticed a jump in PQ. after calibration and proper setup with my epson 1080ub projector (rgb limited on both the ps3 and projector, ultrawhite on, 3:2 pulldown activated with 24fps on) i think it looks fantastic now, although on one of the firmware updates i definitely remember things turning "drab" until the next update came along. so...i have definitely experienced something funky happening as far as PS3 in regards to color output. i'm watching on a 120" screen so even a slight shift in PQ tends to jump out at me.
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