One-and-Only PS3 as Blu-Ray Player Thread - Page 1013

If you updated your PS3 firmware for 3D then it appears that the Sunshine BR is the problem and was recently mentioned on the Digital Bits website.


http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

The PS3 is not adding noise, so if the Oppo looks less noisy it sounds to me like the noise reduction is not really off. If it passed the video untouched it should look the same as the PS3 with all filters off.

thanks


but i still dont see what kind of file type or software to use to rip blurays to a media server

there is a link for streaming from a PC which send you to Sony's PS3 forums that is broken



*update* in the STREAM folder, i can get the movie to start, but not in english or without a narrator talking over the movie



it cannot be this hard

There is no need for one. I doubt if one even exists.

It can't really pass the video untouched, it's mpeg encoded data and has to be processed into RGB pixel values. Though the core algorithms are standardized, there are many ways to do this, some better than others.

It's impossible to say whether the PS3 is adding noise or not without knowing details about the processing implemented. Even at 1080p24 it still has to do the mpeg decode at the very least.

Every BR player I've tested has a different amount of video noise (with noise reduction turned off). I don't know if this means the Oppo is still applying some limited noise reduction when set to off or if it just has better video processing algorithms, but I do know the picture quality is better because of the lower noise level.

Not hard to say at all. If the decoder is working right it is just like unzipping a zip file. Do you expect different utilities to produce different unzips from the same source file?

The differences your are familiar with in DVD domain were dealing with decoding errors and the art of de-interlacing. Bluray are encoded as 24P so no de-interlacing required. And because SONY PS33 is doing the decompression in software it is very easy for SONY to have fixed any errors with FW updates. For hardware ASIC the errors can't be fixed so the users must live with them. Also manufactures live with the errors too because of the expense in fixing the ASIC design. Have you ever read the errata sheet for a processor? I think about 95% of all complex IC I have designed with have had known defects. Remember the Pentium FDIV bug?

There have been plenty of interviews from studio engineers that use the SONY PS3 as the reference standard (could have changed by now, but probably not because it is the best selling Bluray player by far.).

For what it is worth...we had 5 folks over tonight and I wanted to get their input regarding the picture quality between the 93 and the PS3. watching the same dvd and a blu-ray , almost all of us could not tell the differences between the two.noise or no noise. Dont know all the teck info but from humans watching there is really no see able differences.

I understand what you're saying, and I thought this way myself until a few days ago, but I can definitely see different noise levels, so something is causing this difference.

The difference is that you paid $500 for the 93 and because of that, you want to see that it's better. I believe the technical term for what is causing this "difference" is, The Placebo Effect.

No, I *want* the PS3 to look better so I can return the Oppo and avoid spending an additional 500 bucks.

This is a trial phase, and I am trying to determine which piece of equipment to keep at this point. The most important feature to me is Netflix, BR is secondary simply because I watch more Netflix than BR disks. The Oppo's Netflix does not look nearly as good as the PS3, so the Oppo alone can not meet my needs.

I thought the PS3 was the perfect solution until I tried the Oppo and saw how it's BR playback looked better than the PS3. I didn't expect that, and it complicated matters. I wanted them to look exactly the same, as you seem to want. However, they do not.

Now I am considering keeping both, but will continue testing. If I can convince myself that the PS3 BR quality is not that much inferior to the Oppo I could probably let the Oppo go.

rpauls, do you have a HD tv tuner card on your pc or laptop. If so, feed the output of your PS3 and 93 into it and save the two videos and then you can compare frame by frame and see the details and maybe post an image.

I believe you have something setup wrong in the PS3.

Blu-Ray output on both units should be the same.
That is why it is 100% Digital.

My TWO Cent suggestion is review the PS3 FAQ HERE.

Interesting idea. No, I don't have a tuner card. I thought they were for RF. Do they now come with HDMI or component inputs as well? Would a video camera or still camera be effective?

How and what is your PS3 connected to your display?

Since I posted yesterday several people have told me this exact statement as you now doubt have read, and I somewhat expected this response as I myself only began to question it recently. Hey, maybe you're right, but I want to explore it further and find out.

I have been an engineer for 18 years and spent a lot of that time working with video compression algorithms and attended both the ITU-T and MPEG standards working groups. I contributed to the h.263 low bitrate video standard in fact. I am less experienced with HD video, but lest some of you think I'm just some clueless noob, I thought I should point out that I am technically capable and my eyes have spent a good deal of time discerning quality difference in compressed video. Well, no doubt I'm not the first person on this forum to think he know what he's talking about, right ;-)

Anyway, I understand what you are all saying, that 1080p24 mpeg video coming of a BR disk and going directly to a TV set to accept a 1080p24 HDMI signal should look identical on any BR player. Fine, but that doesn't match up with what I'm seeing.

So, I want to know why. I have no doubt that I see the difference, the question is what is causing it?

I would like to do a little more reading up on the processing that takes place in a modern BR player in this case. Is it really just Mpeg decode and then out the door to the HDMI cable? Are you sure there are no enhancements going on in the players? How do we know this for sure?

I would think there would be a benefit in adding some post processing to the decoded MPEG video in most cases because the MPEG stream is so highly compressed compared to what the camera originally saw. I mean, if one were to record RAW 1080p24 video at 12 bits per color channel you would end up with around 1.7 gbps, but the maximum BR read speed is only around 36 mbps right? So there could be a 50:1 compression ratio.

This means the exact pixel-for-pixel representation of what is on the BR may not be the best possible choice to display. It may very well benefit from a little edge enhancement and noise reduction, and chroma modifications. Maybe many BR players do this as part of their normal processing?

Who is it that says the raw unaltered data directly from the BR disk is what comes out of a BR player at 1080p24?

How do you know this? Are there references? I'd like to read about this.

The display I am using for this test is an LG plasma 60PK550. I also have available a Samsung 58C6500 that I could use to see if the TV is contributing to the observation.

I have calibrated the LG and copied the calibration settings to all inputs.

I am connecting the PS3 to the TV via HDMI cable to input 1.

I am connecting the Oppo 93 to the TV by another HMDI cable to input 2.

The BR disk I am using to evaluate noise is The Karate Kid. I use this because it is a terrible recording with lots of noise in the sky and skin. The differences in video noise between the two devices is significant enough that I don't need a second copy of the disk. It is easy enough to remember.

The other disk I've use is Avatar. This is at the other end of the spectrum. Extremely un-noisy. In the PS3 it looks fantastic, but then when I put it in the Oppo it looks even better. I can not say how it looks better, just clearer somehow.

Maybe I'll try exchanging the cables tonight.

What settings on the PS3 could possible effect this? They're both on 1080p24 Y,Cb,Cr. I don't think there is any noise reduction option on the PS3 for BR. The Oppo NR is at 0. If I turn it up, I can even take the film grain out. I think the Qdeo chip must have some very powerful NR algorithms.

Another thing I might want to do is use the Oppo's HDMI2 output. This output bypasses the Qdeo video processing chip and just uses Mediatek I believe. Maybe this will look the same as the PS3?

Considering the BDP-93 looks to have a wide range of video processing controls, I'd guess that those are factoring into the differences you are seeing. The best comparison would be to set the Oppo to Source Direct mode to bypass all of that, then compare the images with those of the PS3 (and yes, I realize the PS3 doesn't have a 'source direct' mode itself).

Being that:

A: The most important feature to you is Netflix

Because:

B: You watch more Netflix than BR disks

and

C: The Oppo's Netflix does not look nearly as good as the PS3

I think you've already solved your problem.

I know how good BD looks on the PS3 and there is just no way you could be having an issue that's severe enough to make you think you need the Oppo on top of it unless you have vision like a cyborg or Lt. Commander Data.

The amount of "noise" you see (if there is any at all) has to be so minute that you're creating an issue for yourself where none actually exists.

Do yourself a favor. Keep the PS3, return the Oppo, and use the extra $500 for something you actually need.

On the PS3 Remote - when you hit the DISPLAY button - what is it showing?

Does the LG indicate what it is receiving?

+1 - good suggestion

Of course this makes sense, and yes I'll probably return the Oppo eventually, but for now I've got both in house, I would like to understand why one looks better than the other.

If you don't have an HD capture card then I'm not sure if there's anyway to save a screenshot of the image from the PS3 vs. the 93.

You said you had your PS3 hooked up to HDMI1 and your 93 to a different HDMI input on the TV. have you tried switching them? Also, can you try another tv?

Good idea. I'll try it tonight. I thought that simply setting all the enhancements to their default (off) position insured no video processing was happening, but perhaps not. BUt then if the picture looks identical to the PS3 the question will become, why doesn't the PS3 offer enhancements as good as the Qdeo chip?

http://wiki.oppodigital.com/index.ph...rce_Direct_FAQ

That's the "creating an issue where none actually exists" I was referring to. Unless for some reason you're seeing a drastic night vs day difference between the two (and we all know that's pretty much impossible) this seems like wasted energy to me. But hey, knock yourself out.

You're obviously not an engineer

Lol, so true. If engineers didn't "waste time" fretting over details like this we wouldn't have such high grade equipment to play with ;-)

I've done a lot of reading today, and most of the credible articles I have found do seem to support the viewpoint that all BR players playing back at 1080p24 should have bit exact video signals after the mpeg decoding stage. However, there is also much consensus after this stage most, if not all, BR players add some of their own "special" video quality tweaks in order to make their image have a certain look. Since there is no fundamental reason to judge that the mpeg data on the disc represents the ultimate viewing experience, such tweaks seem perfectly valid.

Here is an AVS post from someone who appears to know what he is talking about. So it would seem, based on this, that the differences I am seeing in noise reduction and clarity are post processing video enhancements carried out in the Oppo that are not present (or are present to a lesser degree of effectiveness) in the PS3.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14907972

I have a ir2bt for my ps3. I need to figure out how to set up PS button. Do I have to learn this command. Has anyone set this up on there ir2bt? The PS button does not show up as one of the selection.

dead on balls accurate right here...

I have the ir2bt and a Harmony One remote, I defined my 'E' button as the "Power Toggle" function....it works as the PS button

Hi,

I own a Samsung pnc7000 series plasma. I am considering the Samsung bdc6900 and the PS3 as blu-ray players to pair with the tv.

The PS3 would almost exclusively be used as a blu-ray/dvd/streaming player, so other than the obvious advantage of it being a stellar video game system, how do these compare in terms of picture quality (standard and hi-def) and other essentials?

Thanks