One-and-Only PS3 as Blu-Ray Player Thread - Page 104

Yes!

Will the PS3 ever have the capabilities of DVD Upscaling?

"In most cases" is the key phrase. And we're not talking 60/40, it's more like 99.999/.001. But, if BTB and WTW is on the disc and clipped by the player (PS3 type clipping), depending on the display, you will not see what you should see if the data was not clipped. There is no way around it. Depending on the surrounding video, some CRTs will display BTB data. Many digital displays (you can never say all) can display WTW video. Making reference white (235) the brightest your display can output is improper calibration in almost all cases. It is somewhat nitpicking, but it is also just describing what really can happen. And in the end, with the PS3, if they fixed the problem you probably wouldn't notice except when viewing test patterns.

larry

I totally agree with you especially about the .001 part. I have compared movies using HDMI and component (clipped and not clipped) before and I couldn't see any difference. Of course in theory based on the content there could be a very large difference but in reality (to my mind) this isn't the issue many try to make it into.

Rumor is that it's possible but it's anyone's guess if it will happen down the road.

Yes, the PS3 issue is not a big deal at all. I think people relate it to the Toshiba issue which is a big(ger) deal if you use DVI. Two different things.

larry

The issue may not be a big deal, but isn't it true that the lack of BTB makes it difficult or even impossible to calibrate the display for the PS3 properly? With no BTB, you have no reference for setting the black level. (not sure about WTW though)

You can use the +2 above black bar as guidance such as what Avia uses - not perfect, but should get you there.

I think the blu-ray color bar pattern has a +2 bar.

By definition, BTB is below studio reference black. Consumer Avia does not show BTB, but does goes down to reference black. Avia Pro and DVE show BTB. Some digital displays, whether intentionally or unintentionally, emulate a typical CRT's inability to hold black when there is a lot of white in the image ("poor DC restoration"), so setting BTB just under the threshold of what the display can produce with an all-black field would be the way to go; when the average picture level goes up, BTB features would then be revealed. I suppose with BTB clipped, the best you can do is ride black down to the blackest the display can produce and "not 1 click more."

I am as we speak selling my 360 and a bunch of extras on eBay so I can get a 60gb PS3. I want it for both game and BD. I hope it sells, My wife wont let me buy one if it dosent.

You should be able to use a DVD player that does pass BTB and WTW to calibrate the input for the PS3. With digital video there is only 1 correct value for each "color"/grayscale value. If the players work correctly then it should be ok. Most likely the HD paths through the player will produce the same output although until BD Avia comes out we won't know for sure. And you should be able to get close enough with Avia - 1 calibration "tick" in either direction.

larry

Thanks Charles, if so, will it be like a firmware type of an upgrade to have DVD/PS2 Upscaling? Or a new console?

Thanks again!

If you live in a bigger metro area, you should try craigslist.org too. You can get local buyers and the process is much smoother. No fees.

I sold my Xbox, old DVD player, my iPod, two TVs, one satellite receiver, two hard drives, a TV stand and a computer monitor through Craigslist over the past two months. Great to deal with people face to face and pay no fees. Just make sure you deal with people locally and not fall for any scams about sending you money in the mail.

Sony recently released API/SDK information for an onboard scaling chip. So it looks like the hardware is already there. I'd expect access to the scaling functionality via firmware update.

Amazon has the 60GB in stock. Hurry and order one! Don't forget to get the BD remote! And if you are eligible for Amazon Prime, do that! Spend US$4 for Overnight shipping!

Running out of exclamation marks...


fuad

You wouldn't want to use a DVD to calibrate the high definition input. The color space values are different from NTSC to ATSC standards.

We're kind of stuck until a professional HD calibration Blu-Ray disc emerges... and even then the PS3 would have to pass WTW and BTB to properly set the grayscale, etc.

Though, you could always spring for an ISF calibration. The better calibrators have good HD test equipment with ATSC patterns.

Dan

Yes, forgot, and the PS3 doesn't upscale. But a DVD player that does upscale should be outputting REC709, yes? If hi def DVDs are encoded using REC709 then the "matching" colors that represent the "real" filmed source should be on the DVD. Same goes for SD DVDs recorded with REC601(?). Upconverting the SD-DVD should include the color conversion and except for the scaling the video should look the same when you watch it whether it be 480p or HDTV resolutions because the display should know which standard to expect.

So, what I guess i'm saying is that to get the precise calibration you'll need a HD calibration disc. But a SD disc output at HD resolution should look the pretty close to the same or the same otherwise it would be obvious using the same calibration settings when watching SD and HD discs. (I'm not just talking about the PS3, too). If I'm wrong, somebody please explain why. It will be interesting to compare calibration settings with DVE at 480p and then new discs at 1080i or 1080p.

larry


Yes, but that only gets you precise calibrated output when watching the test pattern generators. If your source device is slightly "off" then your calibration is not correct wrt what you ultimately see. Some people prefer to calibrate a display to match a known good/precise source. I'm not in that camp. Because if your real source device is not like the test generator, then your calibrations are not correct. I prefer to calibrate against the source I intend to use and make the screen output correct as possible.

If you have an HD-DVD player too I guess you could purchase (if they're available) Video Essentials on HD-DVD and use that to calibrate.

An NTSC calibration DVD like AVIA or Video Essentials upscaled to 1080i/720p and color space converted to REC709 in a proper DVD upscaling player still won't contain REC709 pattern levels.

Again, if you're calibrating by source you're still sort of stuck.

Dan

I have been messing around with these test patterns. just load them up on your harddrive and go. I think I had to convert them via VLC first. He is a forum member, there is a bunch of threads on them.

http://www.w6rz.net/

Thank you Yuichiror!

Where can I follow this update, in sony.com?

Thanks Again!

I just want the 1080p issue with the Onkyo 674 fixed....my pipe dream there.

A "scaling fix" isn't availible yet, but everyone is hoping for it soon. It may even show up in the "big" March update.

Is that a PS3 or receiver issue? I thought I had read that some of the units would pass 1080p and some would not. I'd like to know for sure, because I was thinking of getting this receiver (actually the 604), but not if it won't pass 1080p.

^^^I'm using the PS3 with the 604 and it passes 1080p perfectly.

Also, can the PS3 decode 5.1 DTS HD MA? (I just bought mine.)

Nope, not yet. It's another "I hope we get that in a firmware update" item.

There has been much speculation that this capability will be part of the March 1.6 firmware update.

There has also been speculation that this will be enabled in the 1.6 firmware update (or a future one).

Yes. Can't wait for the new hi def calibration discs. It just made me wonder how does one verify the SD upconversion does the proper conversion to 709. It should be as simple as converting YCbCr to RGB. Sorry, starting to stray from PS3s...

larry

I am not sure why it works for some and not for others. I think we need to start a thread and get input....What'd ya say?!?!?

Just some info on the PS3 in Europe:

it looks like Europe is massively pre-ordering a PS3. Play.com has already taken 6 times more order on the PS3 than they did for the 360 and 15 times more than the Wii.


And @ Woolworths (UK) they said:


Looking good for Sony

For those that were curious, I seem to have discovered the problem with my "scrambling" of 1080p signals on my Westy 47.

To recap for those that didn't read it earlier, I had a problem where, whenever the PS3 switched between a game/movie/XMB at 1080p, the image would become scrambled, and I'd have to switch to a different input, then back again, in order to fix it. Not a huge problem, because it was easily fixable, but it was indeed annoying.

Today I did some good ol' fashioned hands-on troubleshooting to isolate the problem. First I tried plugging the PS3 directly into HDMI. I'd avoided this at first (running instead to DVI1 using a HDMI>DVI cable) because of the "flickering" problem and some scattered reports of questionable 1080p support through the HDMI (see the Audioholics review of the TV for an example).

Anyway, I plugged it into HDMI this morning. No scrambling problem. But, it did exhibit ye olde flickering on/off when I tried playing GTHD. No flickering on Motorstorm (720p), so it seems to be specific to 1080p signals. I don't think there's a fix for this problem short of a firmware update, so I scrapped that idea pretty quick.

Then I tried moving it over to the other DVI port on the opposite side of the TV. Bam, problem solved. No flickering (which never seems to happen on DVI for some reason), and no more scrambling. I only played with it for about a half hour, but it had no problems at all in switching back and forth between games, movies, anything. In and out of the XMB, no problems at all.

So what I thought was a software/firmware issue seems to be a simple hardware problem. Something in the DVI1 port on my TV doesn't like 1080p signals. Luckily, the TV has a second DVI port that doesn't have the problem, so it looks like I'm golden.