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More on Image Constraint ? ! & *  

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
This may have been posted already, but I think it's awesome news for the most part. And well worth repeating.

The only drawback is that they can implement the resolution restraint when they see fit.

March 6

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...rticle_id=1324

Eklund noted that Sony's key piracy concern isn't with analog HDTV signals but with the digital HDTV signal coming off the disc, which both Blu-ray and HD DVD are protecting with the robust Advanced Access Content System (AACS) endorsed by the Hollywood studios. If analog copying does become a problem down the road, the policy could change, he said — but for now, "we have no plan to implement the Image Constraint Token. All of Sony's titles will come out of the analog output at full definition." He added that other studios still have the discretion to activate the token for all or individual titles.
post #2 of 25
Wow. That is great news...if it actually holds. Full HD over analog opens the doors to a LOT of potential early adopters.

Both formats need to be wise and make this happen. There are simply too many potential early adopters that have nice HDTV that, whoops, just don't happen to have DVI or HDMI. They shouldn't be punished for that.

It behooves both formats to insure that this item does indeed come to pass and stay there. Downrezzing over analog video does not curb tail or slow piracy in the slightest. Who are we kidding here?
post #3 of 25
It had already been reported here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=651463 and later by amillians on the big fat thread. But thanks.
post #4 of 25
Boy, I gotta say, that ain't the A team from Sony for Hi Def titles.
post #5 of 25
What I don't understand is, since all the studios seem to be leaning towards leaving ICS off, why has all the time been wasted with AACS in the first place?
post #6 of 25
They are only saying that for now... once the format war is over, all HD content will be HDCP only.

Thats my though. Just look at 1080i upconverters. Why make those HDMI or DVI only(I know there are a few that play over component)? They forced that restriction, even though copying concerns has never been done over component cable.
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
They simply want to thwart piracy. But they are also risking customers to an extent.

They will turn it on in good time. And you will need the hardware to know when it's turned on. That way the HD players sold now will be ready in 2-3 years to accept the Turned ON Switch on the Discs themselves.

But with previous articles showing the backlash, of all people, hollywood industry, I think this a wise start to move us into the HD Realm with not so many hiccups. It definetly makes me more excited for the format.
post #8 of 25
Quote:
They will turn it on in good time. And you will need the hardware to know when it's turned on.
Has the supposed policy of marking discs with labels indicating ACCT yes/no
fallen by the wayside already?

Nice to have someone from Sony on the record. Maybe it'll help convince class-action civil juries to award compensation if they turn the ACCT switches on too soon. -- John
post #9 of 25
Per the AACS licensing agreement, disc *packaging* has to indicate if image constraint is used, in part or in toto. I'm not sure if the disc itself does or does not...that could get interesting (e.g., NetFlix repackaging).
post #10 of 25
Key phrase from the report "foreseeable future". That doesn't mean a whole lot. I think anyone venturing in to either HD format would be wise to assume that full-res component will be limited at some point with some titles.
post #11 of 25
Well, it's a virtual certainty if the reaction to split studios and the availability of burners/streaming is people using the "I'd buy it if they made available to me" argument to justify P2P acquisition of BD<->HDDVD conversions, created using ADC captures of analog HD component outputs.

Gary
post #12 of 25
Quote:
Key phrase from the report "foreseeable future".
what else is there. In the distant future (2011) all analog will be plugged (ACCS rule)
post #13 of 25
SO all this means is Sony isn't going to turn it on yet...it's just not that important.
I use CRT, and will for the foreseeable future, so unless all these companies go with HD on the component outputs I'm not buying PERIOD!!!
I can't see anyone telling me what I can and can't watch. I have supported these studios with over 900 titles purchased, and have now stopped buying standard def titles (ok, maybe one or two a month)
Now days I'm pretty much watching all my movies and HD over Directv. They have this whole thing so screwed up that I just don't care anymore.
Once again the idiots are in control...HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, HDCP, no HDCP, HDCP later...BS!
Wake me when it's over, and one format has won, then I'll start to get serious.
post #14 of 25
Don't worry about it. AACS will be hacked, HDCP will be hacked and ICT will be hacked. There are millions of people on this planet that are smarter than Hollywood. The fact that Hollywood demanded an image constraint is an example of how ignorant they are. if they are capable of this, do you really think AACS is going to be that hard to hack? They screwed themselves the day they decided to include ICT.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by amillians
Per the AACS licensing agreement, disc *packaging* has to indicate if image constraint is used, in part or in toto. I'm not sure if the disc itself does or does not...that could get interesting (e.g., NetFlix repackaging).
Just to be clear, AACS has announced that there will be a labeling requirement. BUT that requirement will be in Content Participant Agreement, which is not yet publicly available (but should be very soon). Therefore the details of this requirement (i.e. exactly where the label will apear) are forthcoming.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP
what else is there. In the distant future (2011) all analog will be plugged (ACCS rule)
Foreseeable future in this case (for both HD DVD camps and Blu-Ray) means until the studios decide to pull the full-res plug via component. That could be 10 titles down the road, a year.....but anyone thinking that their chosen format will be immune to this is very naive.
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDoherty
Just to be clear, AACS has announced that there will be a labeling requirement. BUT that requirement will be in Content Participant Agreement, which is not yet publicly available (but should be very soon). Therefore the details of this requirement (i.e. exactly where the label will apear) are forthcoming.
Well, logic would dictate that if the label isn't on the packaging, the labeling requirement is a bit of a paper tiger. :)

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it's going to be on the packaging and the disc itself. I just want to see how it gets worded!
post #18 of 25
My guess it will be one of TWO symbols. There is no reason not to play up the full HD output while insisting on ICT labelling (i.e. a spot is reserved anyway).

Gary
post #19 of 25
Hollywood could also forgot the label on the outside of the disk and just tell the user that the image is restricted when they play it? In otherwords, when the player detects the component output, it will display a message telling the user what resolution it is outputing.
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by paintit77
Hollywood could also forgot the label on the outside of the disk and just tell the user that the image is restricted when they play it? In otherwords, when the player detects the component output, it will display a message telling the user what resolution it is outputing.
They would only know that after purchasing and opening the product. I'm pretty sure that would fall under misleading labels.
post #21 of 25
Sure, the resolution constraints will be slammed on the minute an analog
component HDTV recorder becomes available.

Oh, just so we all know what to expect, can some of you all provide a list of
analog compoent HDTV recorders here? How about some that makers are
planning to come out with soon?

How about ones that are being imported from the planet Zwilo?

Anybody? :D
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiam95124
Oh, just so we all know what to expect, can some of you all provide a list of analog compoent HDTV recorders here?
No list, but there are the WVHS machines that can record 1080i over component. They don't have any way to get really high quality copies of the audio as far as I know though.

--Darin
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiam95124
Oh, just so we all know what to expect, can some of you all provide a list of
analog compoent HDTV recorders here? How about some that makers are
planning to come out with soon?
In the HD recorders forum an analog Mitsubishi model, long-available, is often mentioned, including the fact that tapes for it are rather costly. -- John
post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by amillians
Well, logic would dictate that if the label isn't on the packaging, the labeling requirement is a bit of a paper tiger. :)

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it's going to be on the packaging and the disc itself. I just want to see how it gets worded!
Wrong again, moron!

Okay, we have a sneak preview of how the forthcoming content adopter's agreement handles ICT warnings...very loosey goosey it seems.

I'm sure once the agreement gets published (few days?), Richard can clear this up (or we can clear it up assuming we can read the agreement), but basically...

-- Content owners are required to warn/notify the user about the ICT

-- The wording of the warning is up to the content holder...there is no standard "Halt! You're Getting Ready to Make a Big Mistake Buying This Disc Because It Totally Throws Away 75% of the Original Bits!" verbiage required to be used

-- The placement of the warning is up to the content holder...there is no standard size/position, it's again up to the content holder

-- Local laws will influence the wording and size/placement of the warning...although the AACS LA would *like* it to be a sticker on the front of the package or something close to that (e.g., like the naughty lyrics stickers on CDs), if local laws don't "force" content owners to adopt a de facto high profile warning, the warning could be a tiny, vaguely-worded notice embedded deep in the legal mumbo-jumbo text on the lower back of the case (worst case)

-- Warner is looking into a new type of Snapper case that actually laughs at you each time you open it up
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2
No list, but there are the WVHS machines that can record 1080i over component. They don't have any way to get really high quality copies of the audio as far as I know though.

--Darin
But this would be real time recording right ?

Art
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