Sangean HDR-1 - Page 2

While you're technically right, Bob, the Terk AM Advantage does quite a bit better with most component tuners than the untuned loop provided by the manufacturer. It does better still with portables when used in proximity to their built-in ferrite loops. But it's powerful enough that I haven't seen a situation where it doesn't improve am reception.

Try it, Bob. You might be surprised!

I think coupling directly to the loop (either using the existing loop in the component tuner, or the internal loop inside the portable) is probably the right way of doing it, because it doesn't change the inductance/capacitance ratio of the front end. I have nothing against it, it's probably a good product. If you don't happen to have a strong station at one end of the band, or the other (separated by twice the IF frequency), there will be no problem to anyone. Where I live in Sonoma, there is a high powered station on the high end of the band, and it causes problems with listening at the low end of the band. If someone has some strange reception problems with whistles while tuning, that's probably why.

Bob

I don't think the HDR-1 has a built in ferrite bar for AM. The owners manual suggests, without saying definitively, that the only AM antenna is the supplied external loop. I assume that's why they provide it with the plug-to-the-radio so it's easy to attach.

And, yes, the Terk does work well. I can use the "proximity" method and it improves the sound a little, but is even better when I hook it up with the wires.

The best solution using the existing antenna included with the HDT-1 is to place the loop as far away from the unit as posible. From the reports the HD module creates so much noise it dramatically effects the reception of AM signal and therefore requires a distance from the antenna.

But when you all find a solution that would be usable to the average consumer and therefore improve the recpetion and convenience I would love to hear it so we can publish it on our webs FAQ section.

Thanks again for all your help. I continue to find that this site is worth everything I paid to join!! Oh wait. . . It is free for now. But if you all continue to be this useful with your expertise I will have to expolore sponsorship opportunities. I think forums like this deserve something.

I'd still use the "proximity" method with the external loop. The internal tuning cap is supposed to resonate with this external loop for proper tuning. Just place the external loop close to the Terk.

I see Fry's has it for 199 after rebate

So is noone interested in our table top HD Radio? If not, then why? Other than the RadioShack, we are the least expensive and have the best reception and sound quality available in the category?

I own the HDR and love it. The sound and reception are great. Please don't discontinue this great table top.

Well unfortunately the bad user interface and the fact that you need a remote to operate most of the functions puts me and possibly plenty of people off. Most people would buy this radio with applications where remote control operation is NOT desirable; such as bed side and office desk. Besides, at the price point most consumers would probably expect more than 1 choice of color, but that's completely subjective. I'd buy it if the user interface isn't so clunky. Price and reception aren't everything. Part of what draws people to broadcast radio was the ease of exploration. Hard core radio nuts will adapt but for the target audience of this device, if you take out the ease of use, it's not so desirable to go to play with the radio at the first place, is it? You've gotta make the addictive substance easy to access before people are willing to go for the $$$ stuff, right?

On the side note, WR-3 looks fairly interesting, any idea about the release time frame?

I have been lurking here trying to decide on the current tuner or the next gen with a digital out source. But I will try the table top version and report back. PM me for my address and you can send it to me.

I would like to try one, but I am a bit wary for two reasons.

The first reason is that I tried one of the Sangean WR-1 radios and was very disappointed in the AM reception. (To help you to understand this a bit, I am located in south central Indiana, about 50 miles due south of Indianapolis.) I have the BA receptor (regular) radio, and am very happy with the AM performance on it.

Secondly, the following quote from a previous post of yours in this thread worries me.

"The best solution using the existing antenna included with the HDT-1 is to place the loop as far away from the unit as posible. From the reports the HD module creates so much noise it dramatically effects the reception of AM signal and therefore requires a distance from the antenna. "

If I am using an HDR-1 as a bedside radio, it is pretty difficult to put a tunable loop antenna a good distance from the radio and still be able to use the tuning dial on the antenna.

Overall, I am concerned about HD reception in our area. I tried one of the Accurian radios and got next to nothing out of it (reception wise).

Don't worry about the AM noise. I have my AM loop right next to my HDT-1. I don't hear anything funny except very occasionally some very low-level sound when I push the front-panel buttons. Nothing to be concerned about.

Brian

Brian,
I would like to point out that the radio in question is an HDR-1 table top radio, not the HDT-1.

I put the tunable AM loop antenna bedside and place the radio itself farther away. I can control am radio tuning by remote, and tune the AM antenna by hand. Works very well; there is no better am reception with my select-a-tenna.

[quote=Tom White]I would like to try one, but I am a bit wary for two reasons.

The first reason is that I tried one of the Sangean WR-1 radios and was very disappointed in the AM reception.

"The best solution using the existing antenna included with the HDT-1 is to place the loop as far away from the unit as posible. From the reports the HD module creates so much noise it dramatically effects the reception of AM signal and therefore requires a distance from the antenna. "

QUOTE]

I would like to point out that I was referring to the included antenna.

I must say that was also long ago and I was working with, and I am constantly reminded by the tech team, what was an engineering sample. That means that an engineere made it by hand. I have since switched to using a production model in my office and can pick up just about every AM station in the area. Report was that after the engineering sample they properly shielded something in some place on the board and fixed the problem.

And I also have to say in refference to the WR-1, if you had a problem with AM reception on the WR-1, then I can't reccomend a sinlge model that would do better in the same conditions. The WR-1 & WR-2 are still considered by most to be the best in AM and FM reception in the category. But, there are always those cases where the best won't work because it is the best.

In regards to the UI, we are working on that and hope to have the improved UI on the market in summer. We won't add any buttons but will attempt to make a more sensible menu on the unit that will make it easier to work without the remote. I have also reminded them months ago (October) how important the UI is but. . . You see the result.

Master Theseus,

Table top radios are for old ladies. They ain't interested in the technology. They just want something to shake their booty to while vacuuming. Your marketing guys need a little insight. Many of the people who have dedicated tuners are radio hobbyist, they eat and sleep radio. They have been dying for an upgrade to the FM system. Take advantage of it while you guys are on top of the heap!

Put that same technology in your 909 shortwave portable, add the ability to record to flash drive, and you have a winner. The people who buy these radios are looking for the latest and the best. They pride themselves in getting stations no one else can. I am now a true believer in Sangean, A proud owner of the HDT1, the best tuner I've ever owned. Now give me something to travel with and I'll be even happier!

Yes, I totally agree. I want to see HD Radio and DRM in a 909 style radio.

Oh, come on now. I can understand you wanting to support your products. I myself have heard very good things about the Sangean portables from numerous people. That being said, I have had far better experiernces in regard to AM reception from my Boston Acoustics Receptor, Tivoli Model One and Grundig S350DL radios. I certainly would not call those radios sub-par.

I don't want to start a war of words with you, by any means. I appreciate your input in these discussions, and it was your own question that inspired me to post to this thread.

However, to say that the best dd not work BECAUSE it is the best is, well, I'm not sure what to call it. In my case it turned out not to be the best.

I guess what I am saying is that you have no need to get defensive about one of your products simply because it did not work well for me.

Sangean is well respected. I'm not challenging their reputaion, only stating what is giving me pause about buying the HDR-1.

It's interesting that you say recording as there's the degen/kaito 1121 that allows you to record to a flash mp3 player...however I hear the controls are totally weird and there's not much of a manual. To a degree some of the newer radios from china have been very well in price...however build quality is spotty. Combining hd with shortwave and a recorder...maybe DRM...I'm surprised that there's actually more DRM coming to north america...it would be interesting.

I think that hd can help bridge some of the gap that regular terrestrial radio has lost. It's another step...first am then fm...first analog tuning then digital...if someone hears a song they want to buy and it isn't being displayed then who's losing the most? I'd say the music companies. With hd the sound quality is better and I'm getting more stations. Sometimes I like the substations more than the regular ones...I'm not a fan of current rap or country but the older material is better etc.

If I sounded defensive than I apologize. I was not meaning to sound like you have just insulted my mother.

I would also add that as a whole, we know our radio's won't work perfect in every environment. I wish they would, but that isn't the case. I know that the WR-1 is also a little quirky. I think I remember reading that the ferrite antenna is not parrallel to the front of the unit, but is instead perpendicular so that you have to turn in slightly different than others, or vice versa. . .

I have to be honest, I can only go by what I am told and from what I can tell, most people that have the WR line have agreed that they are some of the best in the market. For me to say that means they are the BEST may be a little over stated.

But what kind of sales person would I be if I didn't act a little insulted? The other point is that I know more about HD Radio than I do analog. I don't really know the difference and can only go on experience. I am sure there are better radios out there, I just haven't seen them as I am sure there are aliens out there, but until I see one I would rather say there are none.

DRM? Did someone say DRM?? I am impressed, I thought I was the only person in America who even knew what DRM was! I don't understand it, but I know what it is!

We will be offering an MP3 DRM model, the DRM-40 as soon as the DRM module can overcome it's apparent problems. If I can get enough of you to vouch that you will pay the price for it I am sure I can get it in HD! Matter of fact the DRM-40 features DAB (which you pay for but won't be able to use). If I can get enough of you to say you would buy it if it had HD Radio it might just happen.

Write an e-mail to info@sangean.com and tell them that you want the DRM-40 with HD Radio instead of DAB and we may be able to incite change.

The catch. . . DRM-40 is a portable table-top radio. . .

I know what DRM is Master, and will be buying a drm radio later this year. Probably yours.

Master,
Have you been living under a rock or something. Most (computer savvy) adults, and every one from age 12-30 knows what DRM is: Digital Rights Management - the worst thing promoted by the RIAA since.... ... ... *can't think of anything worse*

Oh... Digital Radio Mondale, right... sorry

You can get around DRM if you burn the audio to CD and then rip it back into MP3. I found that out after buying hundreds of $$ of music off of iTunes. Tell me I can't listen to my music!

Two weeks ago I purchased the Sangean HDR-1 Receiver at Fry's Electronics in Downers Grove, Illinois. I put the receiver on my nightstand and tried it out using the stock FM whip and AM loop antennas.

After one day I was thinking of taking the receiver back, realizing I spent $250 for an AM/FM radio, of which I have many. After a few more days passed, I began to discover the strengths of this receiver and am glad I didn't hastily return it.

Features

The HDR-1 has a simple, classic look that is very pleasing to the eye. It looks quite nice on a nightstand, although I have it positioned forward instead of toward the bed, because of the bright display. The controls (or should I say control) on the front is nice, but the remote is needed for various functions, even to change between AM and FM.

Audio

Even though this unit has fairly small speakers, it sounds sweet. It appears that there is some sort of bass reflex/resonance port on the back which helps richen the sound. The equalizer presets and the my bass / my treble settings are nice. I've settled on the Classic EQ setting, which seems to provide a brighter, sharper sound that is still rich with bass.

Chicago has an HD2 channel with Traditional Jazz that sounds really nice on the HDR-1. The sound quality on the HD1 channels is more crisp, and has more depth, than most of the analog counterparts. The HD2 channels sound better than I expected. The overall sound quality surpasses the music streams on XM and Sirius. The HDR-1 also has a pleasant quick-fade between analog, HD1 and HD2 stations, instead of doing abrupt flips from one to the other.

Reception

Here is where a few surprises made me decide to keep this relatively expensive receiver.

At first, I was dismayed with FM reception. The Chicago stations, 35 miles north of me, seem strong enough to get throughout the house on other receivers. I was having trouble with many of them on the HDR-1 regardless of where I moved the unit. I could sometimes lock the RDS data, but could only get reliable HD Radio reception from one station that is 1 mile away. At first I thought the nearby station was overloading the front-end of the HDR-1. Using another radio revealed the problem. The internal electronics of the HDR-1 cause interference which is received by its own stock antenna.

Fortunately, the internal noise seems to only travel a couple feet from the unit, so replacing the whip with a small set of rabbit ears on three feet of coax greatly reduced the problem. I am able to reliably get 10 of the 18 Chicago stations transmitting in HD, plus two more suburban stations. I am sure I could get the remainder of HD stations with a better antenna and better placement. As for RDS, the HDR-1 is far more sensitive than my Sangean ATS-909. For the stations where I cannot quite get the HD signal, the text info still comes through via RDS. The FM selectivity of the HDR-1 is a pleasant surprise. I can get weaker stations on first-adjacent channels (0.2 MHz away) from strong stations very well, as long as the stronger stations are not running HD.

The AM reception and sound quality, analog or HD, is exceptional. During the day, the HD signals lock with the loop antenna regardless of where I put it or position it. The AM HD stations sound pretty good, too.

The receiver is equally sensitive from 530 through 1700. The selectivity is very tight without penalizing audio quality. During the day I can pick up KTRS St. Louis on 550, which is 230 miles away, even though WIND Chicago has a strong signal on 560 only 18 miles away. At night I can actually listen to WCBS New York on 880, even though I'm relatively close to flamethrower WLS on 890. To compare, I parked my Sangean ATS-909 next to the HDR-1 and could barely hear a trace of either station.

I stumbled across another surprise, too. A few stations on AM show up as Stereo at night, even though there are no HD signals to be found. This receiver apparently receives C-QUAM AM Stereo, even though there is no mention of it in the manual or tech specs. I tuned in 1040 WHO Des Moines and the audio was most certainly in stereo. It's too bad more stations don't run C-QUAM at night in place of HD.

Defects

I came across a few defects so far. Once the receiver locked up while I was fiddling with the antenna for an extended period while tuned to an HD2 channel. I've messed with the antenna a lot more with no further incidents. Unplugging the unit fixed the problem.

A defect with the backlight level settings is rather annoying. The backlight level can be set from 0 through 7, but that level only applies to the first few seconds after pressing a button. After a few seconds of inactivity (no buttons being pressed), the display always returns to a level of approximately 3, regardless of the actual setting. It even happens of the level is set to zero (off). Turn the dial, the display goes dark. Wait a few seconds and it's back on!

There is a defect with the auto-clock set feature, too. Any station that I've tried who sends an RDS CT signal causes the hours to be loaded with a number above 200, regardless of if the receiver is set to use AM/PM or 24hr time. The only way to correct the problem is to set the time manually afterward. At first it took me forever to scroll the number down to 12. I have since found that scrolling upward quickly fixes it.

It would be helpful if there was better internal shielding around whatever components generate the most RF interference from within the unit. Even though the interference is not extreme, if it were gone, the stock antenna might actually work for moderate signals.

Wish List

-- Switch between AM or FM by scrolling past the end of either band, so that the remote isn't needed to switch bands

-- Ability to disable HD for weaker stations

-- PTY search for RDS and HD stations

-- Lower light levels for the display (and fix the inactivity-dimmer defect)

Summary

Overall, I am happy with this receiver. I like the additional HD2 channels, and it has also made me rediscover AM stations like 650 WSM Nashville, which boom in clearly at night. It is on my nightstand to stay.

I found one more very minor but flaky thing with the HDR-1... About a dozen of the stations very briefly show some fictitious callsigns when first tuned in, once in a while. 93.9 FM will sometimes show KAAI, and 95.5 will show KFQC, just before showing the "real" FM station's RDS PS. It's almost like an easter egg from the firmware programmers...

Phil, does your HDR-1 have a bit error rate display like my HDT-1? I'm curious because the HDT-1 BER display doesn't work right and I'm wondering if yours does.

Brian

Okay, add that to the list of quirks. The BER display always shows INVALID. AM, FM, weak signal, strong signal... INVALID. I did a system reset and it's the same.

Can an additional pair of speakers be connected to this (or any other) HD table top radio?

I would like to buy one and put it in my bathroom and was hoping to connect it to an additional set of small speakers in the same room.

Any ideas?

TIA