Sex Pistols and Blondie in Rock Hall of Fame--Genesis and Yes are not - Page 6

We got it loud and clear....

[quote=squonk


ADD--Genesis as you know had quite a bit of humor in their music from the very beginning, and had a number of songs that poked fun at the English upper class and English politics. Of course it was absurdist humor and somewhat subtle, a lot of literary references etc. You had to be able to open up and read a few books to maybe get many of the references. This was completely missed by the pro-punk prog hating music press which always tried to foist this "boring serious nonhumorous" label on prog rock. And of course a lot of people bought into this stereoypical view and still hold it to this day--see many of the above posts. And of course it was mostly because they simply didn't recognize or bother to understand the parody and absurdist humor in stuff like Get Em Out By Friday. Heck, long before the word punk was even being used, Gabriel had written songs like Battle of Epping Forest and the whole Rael character in Lamb who was a punk before it was fashionable to be punk. And the whole Lamb album is so full of humor and sexual references that guys like Henry Rollins could only dream of writing.

One of the primary reasons I love and appreciate Genesis to this day is the humor in their music, subtle in many instances, but certainly there.[/QUOTE]

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wish I could say the same. O well, off to view my copy of Yes' 1973 concert complete with Wakeman in full regal cape. Dynamite stuff. Anyone for some moshing? That keyboard interlude during Close to the Edge does it to me every time. I just want to take someone down!

See. Exhibit A. More stereotypical namecalling and misinformation which I am now forced to correct. Why stupifying? What's that supposed to mean?

Kansas was a bar band out of the plains of Kansas that toiled for years on the road playing hard rock and roll and they rocked just as hard as any punk band. Listen to their first few albums. Foreigner didn't have a hit until the late 70's, long after the first punk bands could have "reacted" to them in the early 70s. Boston's first album came out in 75.

The fact of the matter is that punk was really more of a reaction against the psychedelic noodlings of bands like the Grateful Dead, who would jam for 20-30 minutes on one song. They were also a reaction to the excesses of bands like Led Zeppelin, who championed long guitar solos and became representative of rock star excess far more than a Yes or ELP. The Stooges and MC5 and Velvet Underground were all making albums BEFORE or at the same time as Yes and ELP and before they were very popular in the US for sure. So while some of the later punk bands may have reacted against the idea of virtuosity and musicianship in bands like ELP and Yes, the "reaction" wasn't limited to progressive rock, which was by and large an underground music genre of its own with limited radio exposure save for a few songs of a few bands (Yes--Roundabout, Pink Floyd Money etc).

Your characterization of punk as purely a reaction against progressive rock (which by the way Boston and Foreigner are not) is simply wrong and stereotypical, and perpetuates these mistaken stereotypes which you apparantly bought hook line and sinker from the prog hating pro-punk music press from decades ago.

So in partial answer to lonwolf's question, yes, true punk would be antithetical also to Duane Allman solos and BB King solos and vitually any jazz great who believed musicianship and virtuosity were important. And while there was nothing wrong with the idea of back to basics roots rock which inspired many guys to pick up guitars and start a band (ie, see my Springsteen posts), the side effect of a "we don't need to be good or learn music or go beyond 3 chord" mentality is that you created a whole bunch of bands that absolutely simply sucked and were completely talentless. Ultimately, as I have stated many times, talent wins out. Bands like the Talking Heads were talented and moved beyond the restrictive shackles of punk of course. But there was a whole lot of worthless sludge created in the name of punk simply due to a lack of talent IMO. Exh A was the Sex Pistols.

So to sum up, you who by your own admission have narrow tastes and no progressive music in your collection, get it, while I who have pretty wide ranging collection of music including a fair amount of punk and post punk music, don't get it and just can't understand punk. I see. I'd normally bother going through all the misstatements and misinterpretation of what I said, but I can see at this point its not worth it. And I am laughing too.

I started out just chuckling but by the end it turned into a hearty guffaw.

I didn't tell you what you thought or played. I simply disagreed with your premise and simplification of what punk rock was reacting to. My post was a sincere disagreement about a stereotype you are perpetuating. But if you want to go through life believing all punk music was a direct reaction to Kansas ELP and Yes, go ahead. If that makes you feel better and makes you want to punch out more wealthy people, it sounds like you have the resume to keep up the good work.

And I already told lurch what I was doing back in 1977. I was moshing to long extended virtuoso keyboard solos by guys in capes.

I have to disagree with you a bit here if I may. I listen to stuff like Yes and Genesis and the Allman Bros and Talking Heads and Sonic Youth for all the same reasons--because I like the way it sounds. I really don't listen solely because I think, wow, this is stuff not many people can play, although with progressive rock I am sure I am attracted to it partly because I like the more complicated musical structure which can be unique, different and pleasing to the ear. Obviously the better someone is at their craft, the more enjoyment I would get from the music. But there is a lot of stuff like avant garde free form jazz that would be technically hard to play, but not pleasing to my ear, and thus I would pass on it. So I disagree that prog rock is all about listening to something difficult or complex.

But I'd rather hear someone who knows how to play a few chords tackle the guitar break on Firth of Fifth than someone who can't play a lick. So of course, as I have said, talent matters, at least for me. I generally don't listen to music so I can find someone's skull to bash in, so I guess I am different than some other posters in that respect. You are right that the Allman Bros and blues music is about feel and soul and spirit, and again, the better Allman and Dickie Betts are at playing their instruments, the more enjoyment most people will get from the music.

I also think in its own way prog rock too is about soul, feel and spirit in a different way. It may be more structured in some instances than blues or jazz, but I have been to many a live prog rock concert where you can feel something special being communicated from artist to spectator which is just as powerful as a bunch of guys slogging it out in a mosh pit. And of course there are so many different facets of prog rock that is free form or improvisational (the whole rock-in-opposition movement in prog) so pigeonholing prog is just as dangerous as pigeonholing other forms of music.

Well actually I'm not much of a dancer at all, and while I like to discuss music history, I don't listen because of any theory, but because I simply want to hear good music. Nothing really more complicated than that.

As far as rage and aggression, I suppose when I was younger I used sports as my outlet for that. There is no better feeling in the world than absolutely nailing some metal head and grinding him into the ground on the football field when I was in high school in the mid 70's. Come to think of it, there weren't that many punks and metalheads on the football team though. I suppose I kind of matured and grew out of that "need to bash some skull" rage mentality as I got older and well, matured. But you sound like a real tough guy so I guess I better watch myself next time I'm in my old stomping grounds of Chi-town huh.

BTW, getting back to the original subject of this thread, we've heard a lot about music you obviously don't like, how bout some you do like. Big Blondie fan are ya?