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PSB Speakers Owners thread - Page 49

post #1441 of 4580
11/2/08 at 10:10am
I've never heard the t65s being called 'sharp' or 'harsh' before. In fact, I'd fault them for being a bit soft and bassy if anything. How are they setup? Are you using Audyssey? What are your bass settings?
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post #1442 of 4580
11/2/08 at 12:28pm
Totally flat, source direct using Marantz SR 9600. Just seems very revealing and sharp sounding. I wouldn't say it's strident, so maybe harsh is a bit too severe a word to use. Sharp and revealing is the better description. I'm just researching as I won't be changing the tweeters until I've finished the room, including acoustic tiles in the right places.
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post #1443 of 4580
11/2/08 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jostenmeat View Post

You will be assimilated!



Not at all. Thanks for sharing.



Oh, me too!

*though I might be trying some bipolars soon....

After doing my own research, I think I too have been convinced that a bookshelf will be a better center channel than a typical MTM designed speaker.

I was considering a T45/C40/B15 setup. Now, I think I'd prefer a B15 as a center channel. Two questions:

Would you think that a B15 center would be powerful enough to complement T45 mains?

Also, is there any way to get PSB speakers individually?
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post #1444 of 4580
11/2/08 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Totally flat, source direct using Marantz SR 9600. Just seems very revealing and sharp sounding. I wouldn't say it's strident, so maybe harsh is a bit too severe a word to use. Sharp and revealing is the better description. I'm just researching as I won't be changing the tweeters until I've finished the room, including acoustic tiles in the right places.

Yeah, I'd wait on treating before doing something drastic like that. I like what Audyssey XT has done for the sound as well. The target curve has a rolled off upper end, and every once in a while if the mood strikes me, I'll turn the roll-off ... off.

I'm curious how much different source material you've fed to the speakers, and what other speakers you are comparing them too.

I remember one time, quite a while ago, where the PSBs sounded harsh/strident. It was with the DVD track of The Proposition, and I think its simply due to a pretty bad audio track, IMO. YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nlpearman View Post

After doing my own research, I think I too have been convinced that a bookshelf will be a better center channel than a typical MTM designed speaker.

I was considering a T45/C40/B15 setup. Now, I think I'd prefer a B15 as a center channel. Two questions:

Would you think that a B15 center would be powerful enough to complement T45 mains?

Also, is there any way to get PSB speakers individually?

Well, it all depends. How far are you sitting from the speaker, how big is the room, how many viewers, etc?

There isn't any way to get an individual bookshelf, AFAIK, but I'm sure Alimentall can better answer that. FWIW, a pair of those is not much more than the "center" designs, and you either have spare parts/speaker, or you can sell the other.

However, if implementing the bookshelf, try to get it at ear level, or at least pointed towards head(s).

I'd try for the larger B25. (No space for a 3rd T45?).
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post #1445 of 4580
11/2/08 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Hello all,

I have a pair of Synchrony Two floorstanders. Placement is problematic for both of them from the standpoint of their ports.

I'll be installing a good subwoofer and want to crossover high enough that the speakers don't need to go low enough to use their ports.

I don't know if it even matters whether the ports are plugged or not.

I don't have the port plugs. Can anybody suggest a material to use for a DIY project, should I try to buy some from PSB, or do I simply not need them?

I was considering Synchrony or Imagine bookshelves as an upgrade from my Image B25s. I use the front ported B25s quite close to the wall and have not had any major issues(boomy bass, etc). This post pretty much confirms my fears that the rear ported models would probably be a bad choice for my "limited wall clearance" setup. In addition there are no good audio shops in my area that carry PSB. They're only sold through one chain of stores with a "no try at home - no refund" policy who know nothing about audio and who only have the Alpha and Image lines as demos.
I would really hate to spend 2000$ on a pair of speakers that sound worse in my room than my 450$ B25s.
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post #1446 of 4580
11/2/08 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlpearman View Post

After doing my own research, I think I too have been convinced that a bookshelf will be a better center channel than a typical MTM designed speaker.

I was considering a T45/C40/B15 setup. Now, I think I'd prefer a B15 as a center channel. Two questions:

Would you think that a B15 center would be powerful enough to complement T45 mains?

Also, is there any way to get PSB speakers individually?

Is it possible to throw a matching T45 in place as a centre speaker?
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post #1447 of 4580
11/2/08 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robosapien View Post

I was considering Synchrony or Imagine bookshelves as an upgrade from my Image B25s. I use the front ported B25s quite close to the wall and have not had any major issues(boomy bass, etc). This post pretty much confirms my fears that the rear ported models would probably be a bad choice for my "limited wall clearance" setup. In addition there are no good audio shops in my area that carry PSB. They're only sold through one chain of stores with a "no try at home - no refund" policy who know nothing about audio and who only have the Alpha and Image lines as demos.
I would really hate to spend 2000$ on a pair of speakers that sound worse in my room than my 450$ B25s.

Let me help with your fears. These Synchrony Two's sound great. Their bass amazes me. These are the best speakers I've ever owned. I have NO problem with their sound. I ran Audyssey (Denon 4308 CI) and their -3dB point was below 40, which is the cutoff Denon uses to designate them as "Large". Audyssey completely, to my ears at least, corrected the room gain I get from having the right speaker being too close to a wall and in a corner. Before that there was 'boomy bass'. Now: sweetness.

I just want to build an IB subwoofer, and since Audyssey applies 8x as many filters to the subwoofer (totalling thousands of filters), I'm going to push the crossover higher. Probably 80-100. We'll see what sounds best.
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post #1448 of 4580
11/2/08 at 6:08pm
kjgarrison, Wow, Synchronys coupled with IB!

Robosapien, just FWIW, last I bothered to check, Synchrony line seemed to have 4 ohms as both nominal and minimal impedance. If you like healthy volumes now and then, I'd make sure your amp/receiver is up to the task.
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post #1449 of 4580
11/3/08 at 12:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jostenmeat View Post

Well, it all depends. How far are you sitting from the speaker, how big is the room, how many viewers, etc?

There isn't any way to get an individual bookshelf, AFAIK, but I'm sure Alimentall can better answer that. FWIW, a pair of those is not much more than the "center" designs, and you either have spare parts/speaker, or you can sell the other.

However, if implementing the bookshelf, try to get it at ear level, or at least pointed towards head(s).

I'd try for the larger B25. (No space for a 3rd T45?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Is it possible to throw a matching T45 in place as a centre speaker?

Thanks for the responses, gents.

My room is a 16' x 13.6' and its a fully functioning living room as opposed to a dedicated HT. The room will be rearranged at some point, and we'll then be sitting about 9' away from the center channel. 85% of the time, the viewers will be just me and my wife sitting near the center of the couch directly opposite the TV. There's a love seat that forms an "L" with the couch, so my off-axis response concerns are mainly for anyone in the love seat.

Jostenmeat - with these room dimensions, what's your opinion of the B15 vs the B25 for the center?

Since it's a living room and space is limited, I'm stuck with my electronics under my flat panel TV. As for a third T45, there are two problems with that:

1. Since these and the bookshelves are only sold in pairs, I can't afford to buy a more expensive pair only to have one of them sit in a closet.

2. It took some pretty dedicated campaigning to get my wife to settle on the T45 towers in the living room. As much as she loves me, a third T45 as a center will get a quick WAF veto!

At 16" tall, the B25 might as well be a tower. It's 9" width might be workable if I rested it on its side.

For center channel purposes, how does a bookshelf resting on its side compare with (i) a bookshelf standing upright and (ii) an MTM center?
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post #1450 of 4580
11/3/08 at 11:58am
nlpearman,

I might go with the horizontal center here. Well, for me, I have doubts that the B15 would cut it for me and the volumes I would like to obtain from 9 ft. OTOH, perhaps you like it with very moderate volumes only. There is another fellow elsewhere who knows a lot about amps that admits to liking it at about 80db at the most. Not only can my music listening be significantly louder than that, my HT listening gets dramatically louder yet.

Since you are dead-on to the display . . . lobing effects will be minimized.

All of the above is assuming that you really cannot do the tower or B25. Otherwise, I would consider just running "phantom" until the point that your wife's guard is lowered? well, maybe not.
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post #1451 of 4580
11/3/08 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3db View Post

I used to own an all technics HT suite of speakers but started a slow upgrade path with the Image series. I replaced the center speaker and teh surrounds with Image 8C and 1B respectively. Beofre I had the money saved up to replace the towers, they redesigned the Image line and came out with the T45s in stead of the 4Ts. I spoke to the sales person and asked if there were any change in timbre and if I should upgrade the center to the newer model. He siad no so I bought teh towers. Its been a seemless integration experience for me as they are voiced identically or close enough that I can detect timbre changes during a pan across the 3 front speakers

just what i wanted to hear. thanks for responding!
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post #1452 of 4580
11/3/08 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jostenmeat View Post

nlpearman,

I might go with the horizontal center here. Well, for me, I have doubts that the B15 would cut it for me and the volumes I would like to obtain from 9 ft. OTOH, perhaps you like it with very moderate volumes only. There is another fellow elsewhere who knows a lot about amps that admits to liking it at about 80db at the most. Not only can my music listening be significantly louder than that, my HT listening gets dramatically louder yet.

Since you are dead-on to the display . . . lobing effects will be minimized.

All of the above is assuming that you really cannot do the tower or B25. Otherwise, I would consider just running "phantom" until the point that your wife's guard is lowered? well, maybe not.

The B25 on its side is an option, but the third tower is a no-go. Actually, regardless of what my wife thinks, I don't think I even want the third tower. That's a little too much "speaker" in my living room, plus I'd have to raise the plasma TV, rearrange the electronics, etc and so forth.

Also, I prefer moderate volumes, so we'll see. Which compromise will it be? Choices, choices, choices...

Thanks much for your response.
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post #1453 of 4580
11/3/08 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlpearman View Post

Thanks for the responses, gents.

My room is a 16' x 13.6' and its a fully functioning living room as opposed to a dedicated HT. The room will be rearranged at some point, and we'll then be sitting about 9' away from the center channel. 85% of the time, the viewers will be just me and my wife sitting near the center of the couch directly opposite the TV. There's a love seat that forms an "L" with the couch, so my off-axis response concerns are mainly for anyone in the love seat.

Jostenmeat - with these room dimensions, what's your opinion of the B15 vs the B25 for the center?

Since it's a living room and space is limited, I'm stuck with my electronics under my flat panel TV. As for a third T45, there are two problems with that:

1. Since these and the bookshelves are only sold in pairs, I can't afford to buy a more expensive pair only to have one of them sit in a closet.

2. It took some pretty dedicated campaigning to get my wife to settle on the T45 towers in the living room. As much as she loves me, a third T45 as a center will get a quick WAF veto!

At 16" tall, the B25 might as well be a tower. It's 9" width might be workable if I rested it on its side.

For center channel purposes, how does a bookshelf resting on its side compare with (i) a bookshelf standing upright and (ii) an MTM center?

I was thinking it's too bad you (or anyone for that matter) can't place the centre speaker vertically. Of course, then your tweeter would be much farther down below the horizontal centre line of your front tower speakers tweeter.

If you want a fully matching centre speaker in terms of tweeter AND woofers, but you want a bigger sound than a B15 and can't afford a T45, then you know what you could do? Build your own centre out of an old 3LR. The 3LR had a tweeter up top and two woofers below. Can't remember but it was probably crossed like a tower. It was basically a short 4T. Buy a 3LR box, the newer tweeter and woofers and crossovers from PSB and there you go. Probably more work than it's worth.

I'd say if you can find someone who wants to do the same thing as you, you can split a pair up. Look for a pair of used T45's and split em up. People used to do that with the 10S's (first gen of the S50) when they just wanted a single rear for 6.1.

In the end, I don't think a B25 would be bad. It would probably match well enough. B15's are cheap enough you could buy one and compare it with a B25 and decide what you like best.

Still, if you can make a T45 work, that would be cool. I'd love to use a T55 or T65 but my subwoofer is right smack in the middle there and it wouldn't quite work.
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post #1454 of 4580
11/4/08 at 3:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jostenmeat View Post

kjgarrison, Wow, Synchronys coupled with IB!

Robosapien, just FWIW, last I bothered to check, Synchrony line seemed to have 4 ohms as both nominal and minimal impedance. If you like healthy volumes now and then, I'd make sure your amp/receiver is up to the task.

Yes I pondered those specs too. While I don't usually listen at high volume I know that speakers with low impedance/sensitivity need a high current amp to sound their best - even at low volume. For now I'd be using these bookshelves in a stereo setup driven by a Cambridge 640A V2 which delivers a reasonably healthy 75w/ch. I've heard a 50w/ch Naim, high current, integrated driving 84db Proacs with no difficulty. I tried those same Proacs on my 120w/ch Yamaha RX-V1500 and they sounded terrible. I did have a chance to briefly demo the One Bs at a dealer who had them on loan. He hooked them up to a small NAD integrated(325BEE I think) I remember really liking the sound but felt that they were probably not reaching their full potential. I really need to get my hands on a pair of these to demo at home before pulling out my wallet. PSB distribution in Montréal is pathetic especially considering they're a Canadian company.
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post #1455 of 4580
11/4/08 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jostenmeat View Post

kjgarrison, Wow, Synchronys coupled with IB!

Robosapien, just FWIW, last I bothered to check, Synchrony line seemed to have 4 ohms as both nominal and minimal impedance. If you like healthy volumes now and then, I'd make sure your amp/receiver is up to the task.

Yes they are 4 ohms. I am also getting a Synchrony Two C and a pair of in-ceiling PSBs (just arrived yesterday, still in the box.)

My AVR is a Denon 4308CI.

With the Synch Two floorstanders, everything sounds perfect. However, I do notice that there is a big difference in loudness between music and HT sources. We don't crank it up much at all. Listen to music mostly at -40 to -20, but the same overall loudnses with HT (DirecTV, PS3) requires a setting of around -15 to -10.

Am I going to have too little impedence going with this line of speakers and AVR?

I do have an old Yamaha M-80 amp that I could run the mains, or the center, or the surrounds from.
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post #1456 of 4580
11/4/08 at 9:35am
Hi all,

I need to make up my mind today whether or not to buy a pair of Stratus Silver I for $450. Let me know if this is a good deal.

I was actually looking (and waiting) for an affordable used pair of Dali Helicon 400 (~$2000), but I think this will save me some money. However, if $450 is not a steal for these speakers, then I will wait for what I really want (the Dalis).

Thanks for your input.
Dustin
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post #1457 of 4580
11/4/08 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

However, I do notice that there is a big difference in loudness between music and HT sources. We don't crank it up much at all. Listen to music mostly at -40 to -20, but the same overall loudnses with HT (DirecTV, PS3) requires a setting of around -15 to -10.

The 4308 will let you sent the input sensitivity for each device. I've found considerable variation in the output signal strength between the various devices I have hooked up to my 3808...
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post #1458 of 4580
11/4/08 at 2:07pm
Has anyone compared the latest PSB image speakers to the Stratus Gold/Gold i's ?
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post #1459 of 4580
11/4/08 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Has anyone compared the latest PSB image speakers to the Stratus Gold/Gold i's ?

I have a pair of Stratus golds and also Image C60, and 2 S50's in the same room. Works fine for HT and multi-channel music, but I don't usually attempt reference volumes with the setup.

Any specific concerns you are worried about?
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post #1460 of 4580
11/5/08 at 12:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Has anyone compared the latest PSB image speakers to the Stratus Gold/Gold i's ?

Well i have heard most of PSB Speakers loudspeakers over the last ten years. I can say that they have come along way due mostly to computer added design and manufacturing. Case in point the new Synchrony One Tower Loudspeaker goes just as low with it's 6.5" driver (also flatter and with less distortion) as the Stratus Gold did with its 10" woofer and a cabinet twice the size.

I would guess that since you are asking about old discontinued product you don't have the cash to buy the Synchronys. In that case the Goldi's are still a great speaker for $4-500. I would still have a listen to the, less expensive Imagine or Image line before buying the Golds though.
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post #1461 of 4580
11/5/08 at 2:16pm
I am curious how the Stratus GOLD's sound compared to my Image series. Just looking at different options. Not looking to mix speaker lines.

How does the Synchrony One and others in that line compare to the image line? Again, I am just finding my Image speakers are sharp and hard sounding with my detailed and revealing Marantz SR9600.

Anybody have any other suggestions for other PSB speakers I could use instead of my image speakers? One thing I love about the Image speakers though is their fairly high efficiency/sensitivity and the 6 ohms is a nice compromise impedance for extracting watts from your amp without presenting too demanding a load.
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post #1462 of 4580
11/5/08 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

I am curious how the Stratus GOLD's sound compared to my Image series. Just looking at different options. Not looking to mix speaker lines.

The Golds might be a little more laid back in the top end, not extremely different however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

How does the Synchrony One and others in that line compare to the image line? Again, I am just finding my Image speakers are sharp and hard sounding with my detailed and revealing Marantz SR9600.

I think your next choice in the PSB line would be the new Imagine line, going to the Synchronys would be considerably more expensive...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Anybody have any other suggestions for other PSB speakers I could use instead of my image speakers? One thing I love about the Image speakers though is their fairly high efficiency/sensitivity and the 6 ohms is a nice compromise impedance for extracting watts from your amp without presenting too demanding a load.

How close are the T65s to the wall, how reflective is the room, how close are you listening (on or off axis)? The PSBs are pretty flat and people with reflective rooms seem to have issues with the high end more than others....
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post #1463 of 4580
11/5/08 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlpearman View Post

After doing my own research, I think I too have been convinced that a bookshelf will be a better center channel than a typical MTM designed speaker.

I was considering a T45/C40/B15 setup. Now, I think I'd prefer a B15 as a center channel. Two questions:

Would you think that a B15 center would be powerful enough to complement T45 mains?

Also, is there any way to get PSB speakers individually?



Why are you not getting the C40 now? Just wondering because I have a B25 setup and was going to get at C40 center soon. Anybody have any input on the quality of the center channel? I just thought it was the logical center to my b25's
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post #1464 of 4580
11/5/08 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

The Golds might be a little more laid back in the top end, not extremely different however.



I think your next choice in the PSB line would be the new Imagine line, going to the Synchronys would be considerably more expensive...



How close are the T65s to the wall, how reflective is the room, how close are you listening (on or off axis)? The PSBs are pretty flat and people with reflective rooms seem to have issues with the high end more than others....

The room is only about 11 feet and 8 inches wide, so, they are not too far away from the side walls. I'd say about 18" to 24"...maybe more. My room is reflective. Drywall over concrete. I will get some acoustic absorption tiles and put them at the first reflection points. One thing that is nice, is that the dimensions of the room work great for bass. Very un-square and the room shape calcuator loves my room.
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post #1465 of 4580
11/6/08 at 3:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriousmatty View Post

Why are you not getting the C40 now? Just wondering because I have a B25 setup and was going to get at C40 center soon. Anybody have any input on the quality of the center channel? I just thought it was the logical center to my b25's

The logical choice would be the C60 for the B25, not the C40 based on driver size. I think sonically that the C40/C60 are very close in timber and either should do with either teh B15 or B25.s

I have teh older Image 8c (C40) and dialogue is crystal clear. I don't have to turn it up during busy or crowded passages to hear the dialoge. They are big spekaers physcially, escpially for a cneter channel but becuase of thier size, they can really crank whne things get busy without losing any clarity.
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post #1466 of 4580
11/6/08 at 5:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriousmatty View Post

Why are you not getting the C40 now? Just wondering because I have a B25 setup and was going to get at C40 center soon. Anybody have any input on the quality of the center channel? I just thought it was the logical center to my b25's

notoriousmatty,

jostenmeat spearheaded a discussion on this tread about choosing your left, center and right speakers in order to optimize the front soundstage - read posts 1385 through to 1407. The gist is that the best front soundstage is likely produced by three identical speakers at the same height. Since, that won't work for most of us, we have to evaluate compromises. Some say, and the evidence is convincing, that one of the worst compromises is the standard woofer-tweeter-woofer or midrange-tweeter-midrange (MTM) center channel design, mostly due to inferior off-axis response (essentially meaning a smaller sweetspot).

It seems that better compromises would be (1) a capable, normal bookshelf speaker functioning as a center or (2) interestingly, an MTM center channel arranged vertically instead of horizontally.

While the idea makes sense, I dismissed it initially, mostly since I see MTM center channels everywhere I look. I read several articles about it as well, of which these were probably the best:

http://www.audioholics.com/education...peaker-designs

http://www.nousaine.com/cen%20chan%201.htm

However, given my room layout, I may end up with a C40 anyhow. My mind can change between now and purchase time, so time will tell.
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post #1467 of 4580
11/6/08 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

The 4308 will let you sent the input sensitivity for each device. I've found considerable variation in the output signal strength between the various devices I have hooked up to my 3808...

Interesting. I have not noticed that input sensitivity setting. Does it go by another name? I'll go and look at the setup menu again.
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post #1468 of 4580
11/6/08 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Yes they are 4 ohms. I am also getting a Synchrony Two C and a pair of in-ceiling PSBs (just arrived yesterday, still in the box.)

My AVR is a Denon 4308CI.

With the Synch Two floorstanders, everything sounds perfect. However, I do notice that there is a big difference in loudness between music and HT sources. We don't crank it up much at all. Listen to music mostly at -40 to -20, but the same overall loudnses with HT (DirecTV, PS3) requires a setting of around -15 to -10.

Am I going to have too little impedence going with this line of speakers and AVR?

I do have an old Yamaha M-80 amp that I could run the mains, or the center, or the surrounds from.

bump ..

anybody have an answer to my impedence question?
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post #1469 of 4580
11/6/08 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

anybody have an answer to my impedence question?

You might have better luck on one of the Denon 4308 threads. If I recall correctly the 4308 is supposed to be fine with 4 ohm loads...
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post #1470 of 4580
11/6/08 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Interesting. I have not noticed that input sensitivity setting. Does it go by another name? I'll go and look at the setup menu again.

It's under the source menu for each input. Eg go to source and then a particular source and at that point you should be able to find a setting for source input level (I think), might be under Misc. or Other or some such thing, I've only had to use it twice...
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