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PSB Speakers Owners thread - Page 136

post #4051 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoAZ View Post

I am still trying to decide on speakers. Unfortunately there are no PSB dealers with a showroom in Phoenix (the fifth largest city in the US) for me to go listen and compare the PSB speakers. I have listened to the T6 at Wilson Audio in Tucson last month. When listening side by side to the PSB T6 and the B&W 683B I slightly preferred the 683B as it had a slightly wider sound stage and warmer midrange. I would like to listen to the PSB Imagine T and T2 before I make my decision. I read so many good posts about the T2 that I am tempted to spend the extra on them, but they are $1100 more each than the T6, since I can't hear them side by side I don't know if it is worth it.

I have done a couple more hours of listening on the B&W speakers that are at Best Buy. For most material I find the B&W 683B speakers more pleasing to the ear than the B&W CM9 speakers. The CM9 does have a wider sound stage that I prefer, but the CM9 sound too forward in the upper ranges, my wife described high female vocals as "too brassy". I have a concern that the difference in the PSB T6 and the T2 towers could be similar. I would appreciate input from those who have heard both.
I once had a pair of B&W floorstanders, the DM605 with active bass and Nautilus tweeters. "Brassy" vocals is an understatement as the whole soundfield just sounded harsh. Got rid of 'em with no regrets. I think that if you are truly interested in B&Ws, the 8xx line is a good place to start.........of course they come with a prohibitive pricetag.

I suggest that you simply do a google search by posting "B&W 683B reviews" or "B&W CM9 reviews" into the search bar and see what other who own them have to say. You might even try something like "B&W 683B vs PSB Imagine" and see what comes up.

As far as myself being able to compare the two, I have not heard the PSB Imagine line.

Good luck and good hunting.wink.gif

BTW; I had the same problem trying to audition the Synchronys. Living in Carson City is at least a 200 mile drive to the nearest dealer and even still, none had 'em setup for previewing(wassup wid dat?!!!). That's one of the reasons I figured it was worth taking a chance on secondary market Stratus Golds as referenced in my post up above. If they didn't work out, I figured I could easily sell 'em on A-gon or e-bay and not be out anything more than a trip to the shipper.

I too would take just about any PSB over B&W except for the 800 series, which are pricy for the performance.
post #4052 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoAZ View Post

I am still trying to decide on speakers. Unfortunately there are no PSB dealers with a showroom in Phoenix (the fifth largest city in the US) for me to go listen and compare the PSB speakers. I have listened to the T6 at Wilson Audio in Tucson last month. When listening side by side to the PSB T6 and the B&W 683B I slightly preferred the 683B as it had a slightly wider sound stage and warmer midrange. I would like to listen to the PSB Imagine T and T2 before I make my decision. I read so many good posts about the T2 that I am tempted to spend the extra on them, but they are $1100 more each than the T6, since I can't hear them side by side I don't know if it is worth it.

I have done a couple more hours of listening on the B&W speakers that are at Best Buy. For most material I find the B&W 683B speakers more pleasing to the ear than the B&W CM9 speakers. The CM9 does have a wider sound stage that I prefer, but the CM9 sound too forward in the upper ranges, my wife described high female vocals as "too brassy". I have a concern that the difference in the PSB T6 and the T2 towers could be similar. I would appreciate input from those who have heard both.

 

Having listened to many speakers, I prefer PSB over the smaller B&W speakers.  Given the stellar reviews that the Imagine T2 has received since they were released, I think you would be well-served to pay the extra money.  Remember, speakers last for many years, so in the long run you will be glad you went for the better quality solution. 

 

It is too bad you don't have a place in Az to audition the T2's.  When I purchased my Synchrony One's, the local dealer let me take a pair home for an in-home audition for a week.  I even ran Audyssey room correction so I could get an exact audition before I made the purchase.

post #4053 of 5482
I am able to get the G-Design GB1 for the same price point as the Image P5. Should I go for it?
post #4054 of 5482
I highly recommend pairing an emotiva amp with the psb. I just added an xpa5 to my system and man these things sound even better than they did with my onkyo 809. They love the juice. Man are these speakers great!!
post #4055 of 5482
About one week with my Imagine T2'S and let me tell you no regrets that I went with these speakers, they are great! Went from Definitive to PSB big difference how the T2s fill my room. Right now i have about one month doing research and comparisons no auditions. Revamping my set up, I need some power amp and a better AVR/AV. I narrowed it down to the following: DENON 4250CI, MARANTZ SR7007, or MARANTZ AV7001, power amplifier Outlaw 7200, Parasound HALO A51, ATI 1800, I want good sound at low and high volumes no distortion just clean and steady power. What you guys think?
post #4056 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIKEAUDIO View Post

About one week with my Imagine T2'S and let me tell you no regrets that I went with these speakers, they are great! Went from Definitive to PSB big difference how the T2s fill my room. Right now i have about one month doing research and comparisons no auditions. Revamping my set up, I need some power amp and a better AVR/AV. I narrowed it down to the following: DENON 4250CI, MARANTZ SR7007, or MARANTZ AV7001, power amplifier Outlaw 7200, Parasound HALO A51, ATI 1800, I want good sound at low and high volumes no distortion just clean and steady power. What you guys think?

I have the Denon 4520 with an Emotiva XPA-3, configured in an all-PSB (except the subs) DSX 11.1 system. I think Audyssey XT32 is important in any choice you make, and I certainly recommend the 4520.
post #4057 of 5482
So I picked up a B&W 683 5.1 setup from a local HT store a week ago and have two weeks left in my demo period. Below is the package deal that I got. I've been thinking of swapping out the speakers for the CM9 or the PSB T6.

_______________Reg. Price____Package Price
Marantz SR6007__$1199.99_____$799.98
683 pair_________$1,499.98____$1,349.98
686 pair_________$479.99______$407.98
CMC2___________$1,249.99____$1,061.65
Total____________$4,027.96____$3,618.62
Total w/ tax___________________$3,894.35
Savings_____________________$409.35

I think my ears are more partial to the PSB T6 sound (or if I want to step up in price the Imagine T2s or CM9s). I found the following deal for PSB T6s via an online retailer, which I think is a much better deal. But I generally don't like dealing with the hassle of returning or servicing electronics purchased online. Below is the deal for PSB T6s.

______________Reg. Price____Package Price
Denon 3313ci___$1,199.99____$899.99
T6 pair_________$1,299.98____$974.99
S5 pair_________$899.99_____$674.99
C5_____________$399.99____$299.99
Total___________$3,799.95___$2,849.96 (no tax b/c online sale)
Savings____________________$949.99
Savings vs B&W Package______$1,044.39

I know most people here prefer the PSB T6s to the B&W 683s, but I felt I would ask nonetheless. I am using two SVS PB-1000s for my subwoofer.
Edited by VicTorious1 - 1/14/13 at 3:13pm
post #4058 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Ok, I realize that most folks who post here have mostly newer PSB offerings and may not be interested in this but I want to tell you of my new purchase (new to me anyway). First let me state that I have been a VERY happy PSB owner since 1996 when I bought my first "real" loudspeaker, the Stratus Silver. At the time it was all I could afford and the extra $600.00 for the much desired and coveted Stratus Golds was beyond the budget. But that didn't stop my interest and last weekend I finally got ahold of an excellent pair of the Goldi for $700.00. Now that I've had them in the system for a week I can honestly say that they are well worth the money. Before buying, I poured all over various forums for any info I could find on these speakers and it all came up VERY favorable. They even received a "class B" rating from Stereophile magazine back in the day. I came across a few threads where they were compared to Synchrony Ones by folks who had owned both and where-as most all claimed the Synchrony's were a more detailed speaker that image well, they also said the Golds were a warmer speaker that were also quite detailed, image almost as well with a very wide soundstge and a better bottom end when put side by side. More than a few posts indicated remorse for selling their Golds.

I can personally attest to the fact that in my situation, the Golds have much more bottom end than the Silvers. It only figures considering that the Golds have a 10" woofer compared to the Silver's 6.5" woofer. Another surprise was the fact that the upper mid range seems more robust but not at all abrasive. Vocals really stand out now and things like cymbal decay is more prevalent and piano sounds fuller and more natural. I'm now able to run my front speakers set at "large" and the difference is jaw dropping when watching boisterous movie soundtracks. These are my first pair of what I would classify as "true" full range speakers.

The Silvers are now being utilized as my center channel and that is a story in and of itself. Dialogue never sounded better and pans across the stage are so smooth you really can't tell where one speaker stops and the next one starts. Perfect!

The Bronzes which have been serving as center speaks may find themselves relegated to side surround duties. I haven't decided yet as the Stratus Minis are doing just fine.

The Golds are paired up to my Parasound Halo A-31 which has plenty of watts (400wpc-4ohms) for these power hungry monsters(they weigh 90lbs each!), the sound is finally something I can truly say is at the point where any improvements beyond here are gonna be cost prohibitive. After almost two decades of searching I think I have finally found sonic nirvana.

Just thought y'all might be interested to know that a decent, "audiophile" quality PSB speaker setup can be had for less than what you might think if you just shop around a bit.

Stratus Gold, I paid $700.00 but I've seen 'em for less.

Silvers, I've seen for around $400.00

Bronze, I paid $200.00

Stratus Minis; 1 set cost $260.00, 1 set cost $300.00

Total = $1860.00

Eliminate the Bronzes and we're talkin exactly $1660.00 clams for a better than awesome 7.? surround system!
.
This is a follow up post........ yesterday, I spent the entire day out in the cave listening to and enjoying these speakers. One thing that became very apparent after about 5 hours of non-stop listening was how non-fatiguing these speakers are and what a joy it is to listen to them. I've never had a pair of speakers that at some point didn't start grating on my ears. I even tried some CDs that I know are quite bright and hard to listen to all the way through. Now, even they have been tamed by the Stratus Golds.

I'm a happy boy!
post #4059 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post

So I picked up a B&W 683 5.1 setup from a local HT store a week ago and have two weeks left in my demo period. Below is the package deal that I got. I've been thinking of swapping out the speakers for the CM9 or the PSB T6.

_______________Reg. Price____Package Price
Marantz SR6007__$1199.99_____$799.98
683 pair_________$1,499.98____$1,349.98
686 pair_________$479.99______$407.98
CMC2___________$1,249.99____$1,061.65
Total____________$4,027.96____$3,618.62
Total w/ tax___________________$3,894.35
Savings_____________________$409.35

I think my ears are more partial to the PSB T6 sound (or if I want to step up in price the Imagine T2s or CM9s). I found the following deal for PSB T6s via an online retailer, which I think is a much better deal. But I generally don't like dealing with the hassle of returning or servicing electronics purchased online. Below is the deal for PSB T6s.

______________Reg. Price____Package Price
Denon 3313ci___$1,199.99____$899.99
T6 pair_________$1,299.98____$974.99
S5 pair_________$899.99_____$674.99
C5_____________$399.99____$299.99
Total___________$3,799.95___$2,849.96 (no tax b/c online sale)
Savings____________________$949.99
Savings vs B&W Package______$1,044.39

I know most people here prefer the PSB T6s to the B&W 683s, but I felt I would ask nonetheless. I am using two SVS PB-1000s for my subwoofer.

You are in about the same boat as I am, I even looked at the same two receivers.
post #4060 of 5482
Hi Guys

Question for the group. I have a 5.1 setup with Image T6's, C5 and B5 surrounds and a Deftech supercube II sub. I am powering the group with a Denon AVR-890 which is supposed rated at 105 watts per channel I believe. I recently was watching the Dark Knight Rises on bluray and had it turned up to close to reference levels. Now I have noticed that one of my T6's isnt sounding right. A closer inspection of it showed that the glue that surrounds the cone in one of the woofers appears to have a hairline crack. I checked all of my other speakers and there is nothing remotely like that in my other speakers. The middle woofer is now giving an electrical static sound. What are your suggestions and what could have possibly caused this?
post #4061 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacklebary View Post

Hi Guys

Question for the group. I have a 5.1 setup with Image T6's, C5 and B5 surrounds and a Deftech supercube II sub. I am powering the group with a Denon AVR-890 which is supposed rated at 105 watts per channel I believe. I recently was watching the Dark Knight Rises on bluray and had it turned up to close to reference levels. Now I have noticed that one of my T6's isnt sounding right. A closer inspection of it showed that the glue that surrounds the cone in one of the woofers appears to have a hairline crack. I checked all of my other speakers and there is nothing remotely like that in my other speakers. The middle woofer is now giving an electrical static sound.What are your suggestions and what could have possibly caused this?
My suggestion would be to contact PSB and see if they have a replacement driver(speaker) available. Next, if you wish to continue feeding your speakers this much power I would look into getting an amplifier that is rated higher than your speakers power handling ability. If you're on a budget, Emotiva amplifiers seem to be the rage right now.

What caused it? That movie has a VERY active soundtrack. I found myself doing a full speaker check after it was over to see if everything was still intact.......... fortunately, it was. It's also quite posible that pushing your receiver to near reference levels probably meant that on some of those loud passages, it was clipping. I researched this extensively before buying my Halo A-31 which is rated at 400wpc 4 ohms driven and found that clipping your amplifier and sending the signal to the speakers is supposedly far more damaging to the drivers than overamping them with an amp that's rated higher than the speaker's "continuous" rating.
post #4062 of 5482
Thanks for that. Yes I was planning on buying a newer receiver with much more power then I am using now. Perhaps this will be the push I needed. Would clipping have caused this?
post #4063 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacklebary View Post

Hi Guys

Question for the group. I have a 5.1 setup with Image T6's, C5 and B5 surrounds and a Deftech supercube II sub. I am powering the group with a Denon AVR-890 which is supposed rated at 105 watts per channel I believe. I recently was watching the Dark Knight Rises on bluray and had it turned up to close to reference levels. Now I have noticed that one of my T6's isnt sounding right. A closer inspection of it showed that the glue that surrounds the cone in one of the woofers appears to have a hairline crack. I checked all of my other speakers and there is nothing remotely like that in my other speakers. The middle woofer is now giving an electrical static sound. What are your suggestions and what could have possibly caused this?

I doubt that possible distortion from your amp caused that type of failure. Seems like a manufacturing defect to me.

Over driving your amp or any amp will more than likely damage the electrical components of the speaker.

What do you have the crossed over at or are you running them as "large"?
post #4064 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

I doubt that possible distortion from your amp caused that type of failure. Seems like a manufacturing defect to me..

Over driving your amp or any amp will more than likely damage the electrical components of the speaker.

What do you have the crossed over at or are you running them as "large"?
With all due respect, I have to disagree. Just lookee HERE

As I stated earlier, that movie has a very AGGRESSIVE, LOUD soundtrack. If he was already playing it at "close to reference levels", I could easily picture the receiver/amplifier getting pushed way beyond it's capabilities when all hell started breaking loose. Where-as overpowering a speaker will do things like melt voice coils and the like, clipping will destroy a speaker in other ways. The symptoms sound like the amp was getting pushed into some pretty serious clipping and having watched that movie and having heard the soundtrack, I'm not at all surprised.

Also, one other thing to consider is that, unlike a quality, dedicated amplifier, a receiver/amp combo is quite often rated higher than what it actually puts out. The Denon is, as he said, rated at 105wpc and the T-6 is rated at 200 watts program so it's really not possible that the receiver was overpowering the driver. Quite the contrary, if he was pushing the limit, the limit was exceeded big time in those big time loud passages.

They should probably put a warning label on the cover of that blu-ray.


ETA; I looked all over the place and couldn't find whether the AVR 890 can handle 4 ohms properly. All the specs I saw only list the wpc which makes me kind of suspect that the 890 is most likely an 8 ohm amplifier, especially at the price they charge. Those Image T-6 speakers, according to specs can get down as low as 4 ohms.
.
Edited by Torqdog - 1/15/13 at 10:18pm
post #4065 of 5482
I believe that they are classified as small speakers and the crossover should be 80hz. What is a safe recommendation for power ratings especially if I wanted to get into 7.1 with the addition of a set of Image S5's?
post #4066 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacklebary View Post

I believe that they are classified as small speakers and the crossover should be 80hz. What is a safe recommendation for power ratings especially if I wanted to get into 7.1 with the addition of a set of Image S5's?
80hz is pretty much the standard. Your T-6s spec down to 32hz (+/-3db) and 45hz(+/-1 1/2db) which means that they could handle a lower x-over point of say 60hz. When I had my (similar to your T-6s) Stratus Silvers doing FR/FL duties, I would switch x-over points dependent on source material..........music I'd play at 60hz and movies at 80hz.

As far as amplifier power, it is a general rule of thumb that you want an amp that is capable of providing at least 50% more power than what your speaker's input power/program rating is, ie; the T-6 is rated at 200 watts so you would be fine with an amplifier rated at 300wpc or even higher. Keep in mind that when you're looking at power ratings for amplifiers, the power output increases as the ohms go lower. Case in point, my Halo amp is rated at 250wpc @8 ohms and 400wpc @4 ohms. My speakers are rated at 300 watts program and they are 4 ohms so they are quite happy with what the Halo amp is feeding them.

A good analogy I read when I conducted my research was the Corvette. That car has a heck of allot of horsepower but you don't go flooring it at every stoplight. Nope, you just go about accelerating but well within the power band and the car barely exerts much effort to get moving. But you do have plenty of "reserve" power. That reserve power in amplifier speak is called headroom.

I recently in the past 2 months changed out my amp and front speakers. The older Parasound amp it replaced was rated at 200wpc into 4 ohms and the Stratus Silver speakers that I just replaced 2 weeks ago were rated at 250 watts/4 ohms. With that setup the way it was, loud explosions and the like didn't sound all that good even though I wasn't pushing the amp anywhere close to reference levels. When I replaced that with the new Halo 400wpc amp, those 250 watt speakers suddenly sounded like they got turbo-charged. Those same explosions now sounded very real and even though the volume was at pretty much the same level, those speakers just sounded now like they were cruisin and not even breaking a sweat..........kinda like the Corvette at the intersection.
post #4067 of 5482
Here is the actual specs from the Denon AVR890:

Front (A, B):
105 W+105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
135 W+135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Center:
105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
135 W
(6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Surround:
105 W+105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
135 W+135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Surround Back:
105 W+105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
135 W+135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)

Does this basically mean that it would have a tough time driving these speakers properly or am I only getting a fraction of their capabilities?
post #4068 of 5482
fraction of their capabilities. Those numbers are only with 1 or 2 channels driven at any given time. Since they all pul from the same power supply the numbers are more realistically 75-95 watts per channel. The only true way to get the most of your speakers is going with an external amp that can drive all cghannel at the same time at the same wattage
post #4069 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

fraction of their capabilities. Those numbers are only with 1 or 2 channels driven at any given time. Since they all pul from the same power supply the numbers are more realistically 75-95 watts per channel. The only true way to get the most of your speakers is going with an external amp that can drive all channel at the same time at the same wattage
^^^ +1

.........or less! He's right, those speakers will really start to open up once they've been fed some good power from a quality amplifier.
post #4070 of 5482
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooldude1010 View Post

Thanks for the info.

Also on the receiver - would a Denon 2112ci be good enough for the Image T6/C5/B1 speakers? This receiver out is 90W per channel.

I would be surprised if you got 20 watts per channel in actual real world use. it's rated at 90w for each channel. Divide that by 5 speakers and take a little off that number due to your speakers not being 8 ohms and you'll get the actual number. Not to mention that the rated distortion is also rated into one channel. So i would be surprised if that number didn't go up drastically once your listing to all 5 speakers.

all these larger AV companies really know how to blow smoke! remember when they used to rate there suff as "630W receiver " ... wow impressive!

Although your speakers may sound ok on this amp I would invest in a AVR from a company that gives you their specifications when all channels are driven simultaneously (ie. 7 not 1 or 2) into full bandwidth at rated distortion.
post #4071 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by firebook23 View Post

I would invest in a AVR from a company that gives you their specifications when all channels are driven simultaneously (ie. 7 not 1 or 2) into full bandwidth at rated distortion.

Which company would that be?
post #4072 of 5482
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacklebary View Post

Here is the actual specs from the Denon AVR890:

Front (A, B):
105 W+105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
135 W+135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Center:
105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
135 W
(6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Surround:
105 W+105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
135 W+135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Surround Back:
105 W+105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)
135 W+135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)

Does this basically mean that it would have a tough time driving these speakers properly or am I only getting a fraction of their capabilities?


Not a fraction, but you will see a large improvement with a better amp.
That is some sneaky marketing! Almost 1% distortion when pushing one 6 ohm speaker into a 1kHz test tone! Crazy
So basically your amp will be about 15watts per channel in a 7.1 setup. Try to use a AVR that is rated into all channels simultaneously using a 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz signal at rated distortion.
post #4073 of 5482
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Which company would that be?

A lot of companies do that.
NAD is my favorite but there are many others Rotel, Cambridge or on the cheaper end Anthem, that are more truthful about their products
post #4074 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

With all due respect, I have to disagree. Just lookee HERE

As I stated earlier, that movie has a very AGGRESSIVE, LOUD soundtrack. If he was already playing it at "close to reference levels", I could easily picture the receiver/amplifier getting pushed way beyond it's capabilities when all hell started breaking loose. Where-as overpowering a speaker will do things like melt voice coils and the like, clipping will destroy a speaker in other ways. The symptoms sound like the amp was getting pushed into some pretty serious clipping and having watched that movie and having heard the soundtrack, I'm not at all surprised.

Also, one other thing to consider is that, unlike a quality, dedicated amplifier, a receiver/amp combo is quite often rated higher than what it actually puts out. The Denon is, as he said, rated at 105wpc and the T-6 is rated at 200 watts program so it's really not possible that the receiver was overpowering the driver. Quite the contrary, if he was pushing the limit, the limit was exceeded big time in those big time loud passages.

They should probably put a warning label on the cover of that blu-ray.


ETA; I looked all over the place and couldn't find whether the AVR 890 can handle 4 ohms properly. All the specs I saw only list the wpc which makes me kind of suspect that the 890 is most likely an 8 ohm amplifier, especially at the price they charge. Those Image T-6 speakers, according to specs can get down as low as 4 ohms.
.

You are FAR more likely to damage a speaker with a low powered amp being over driven than by using a high power amp. Distortion, the clipping of the input signal is what damages the components. What is most likely to go first is the internal electrical components and or the tweeter.

Having the woofer separate due to the glue giving out is a manufacturers defect.

And I have watched that movie cranked way up -5db on my 50w/channel HK with my little NHT SZs and my speakers did not come apart at "the seam". It's not the movie soundtrack or the AVR it's a defective speaker.
post #4075 of 5482
I'm considering a possible PSB upgrade and wanted to get your thoughts......I currently am running the T45's and the C40 center. Considering either moving to the Imagine T/Imagine C combo or even possibly jumping up to the Imagine T2/Imagine C combo. My question is how much of a difference is there going to be in the move? If I spend roughly 3-4k, I want to make sure that it's worth it. This will be used for 50/50 HT/music and used in a 17'x18' room. I will eventually upgrade my receiver, but currently running a Denon 780. Other options I've considered are the Ascend Sierra Towers, Paradigm Studios, or Aperion Grand. I've been pretty happy with the T45's but always looking to improve. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks....
post #4076 of 5482
Given the consensus that my receiver was completely underpowered to bring out some of the fidelity of these speakers, I was looking towards the Denon AVR3313CI. Here are the specs. Would these be alot better and capable of doing the job without going the way of separate amps?

Front:
125 W + 125 W (8 Ω, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.05 % T.H.D.)
165 W + 165 W (6 Ω, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Center:
125 W (8 Ω, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.05 % T.H.D.)
165 W (6 Ω, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Surround:
125 W + 125 W (8 Ω, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.05 % T.H.D.)
165 W + 165 W (6 Ω, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Surround back / Front height / Front wide:
125 W + 125 W (8 Ω, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.05 % T.H.D.)
165 W + 165 W (6 Ω, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)

Dynamic power: 130 W x 2ch (8 Ω)
190 W x 2ch (4 Ω)

As per their marketing it has seven discrete 125-watt channels of equal power for dynamic sound.
Edited by Tacklebary - 1/16/13 at 10:20am
post #4077 of 5482
to be honest...no. I know it doesn't sound right (I was a non believer) but separates is the only way to get the full potential from your speakers...it makes the world of difference!
post #4078 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by firebook23 View Post


A lot of companies do that.
NAD is my favorite but there are many others Rotel, Cambridge or on the cheaper end Anthem, that are more truthful about their products

For example, how would you know whether this is true or not?

 

post #4079 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

80hz is pretty much the standard. Your T-6s spec down to 32hz (+/-3db) and 45hz(+/-1 1/2db) which means that they could handle a lower x-over point of say 60hz. When I had my (similar to your T-6s) Stratus Silvers doing FR/FL duties, I would switch x-over points dependent on source material..........music I'd play at 60hz and movies at 80hz.

As far as amplifier power, it is a general rule of thumb that you want an amp that is capable of providing at least 50% more power than what your speaker's input power/program rating is, ie; the T-6 is rated at 200 watts so you would be fine with an amplifier rated at 300wpc or even higher. Keep in mind that when you're looking at power ratings for amplifiers, the power output increases as the ohms go lower. Case in point, my Halo amp is rated at 250wpc @8 ohms and 400wpc @4 ohms. My speakers are rated at 300 watts program and they are 4 ohms so they are quite happy with what the Halo amp is feeding them.

A good analogy I read when I conducted my research was the Corvette. That car has a heck of allot of horsepower but you don't go flooring it at every stoplight. Nope, you just go about accelerating but well within the power band and the car barely exerts much effort to get moving. But you do have plenty of "reserve" power. That reserve power in amplifier speak is called headroom.

I recently in the past 2 months changed out my amp and front speakers. The older Parasound amp it replaced was rated at 200wpc into 4 ohms and the Stratus Silver speakers that I just replaced 2 weeks ago were rated at 250 watts/4 ohms. With that setup the way it was, loud explosions and the like didn't sound all that good even though I wasn't pushing the amp anywhere close to reference levels. When I replaced that with the new Halo 400wpc amp, those 250 watt speakers suddenly sounded like they got turbo-charged. Those same explosions now sounded very real and even though the volume was at pretty much the same level, those speakers just sounded now like they were cruisin and not even breaking a sweat..........kinda like the Corvette at the intersection.

Hi Torqdog, so my amp is probably way too underpowered right? I didn't know about the general rule of thumb that the amp should be capable of providing at least 50% more power than the input/power/program rating form my speakers( Imagine T2) which is 300watts. My Halo amp which is the A23 is only 125 watts and the store told me that it is enough for my speakers. My system sounds really good in 2 channel but I am probaly not getting the proper sound I am supposed to be getting with my amp being too weak. I connect my amp to my Marantz SR6007 for 7.1 and the system sounds really good. I listen to music from about 14 feet away at about -10db to -5db.

I am just wondering if I should return the amp and get the A21 but thinking is it worth the extra 1300.00 for the improvement in sq?

Thank you for your input.
post #4080 of 5482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solo man View Post

Hi Torqdog, so my amp is probably way too underpowered right? I didn't know about the general rule of thumb that the amp should be capable of providing at least 50% more power than the input/power/program rating form my speakers( Imagine T2) which is 300watts. My Halo amp which is the A23 is only 125 watts and the store told me that it is enough for my speakers. My system sounds really good in 2 channel but I am probaly not getting the proper sound I am supposed to be getting with my amp being too weak. I connect my amp to my Marantz SR6007 for 7.1 and the system sounds really good. I listen to music from about 14 feet away at about -10db to -5db.

I am just wondering if I should return the amp and get the A21 but thinking is it worth the extra 1300.00 for the improvement in sq?

Thank you for your input.
Not neccessarily.
1st off, that A-23 is a fine amp and is probably rated conservatively.
2nd, your T-2s go down as low as 4 ohms and at that range the amp is putting out closer to 200wpc.

The old saying of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" might apply here. If you are happy with the sound your system provides and you're not hearing any distortion then you should be OK.

However, I have seen more than a few posts from folks who have gone from the smaller to the bigger Halos and they all claimed there was a very noticable difference. Keep in mind that when you spend money like that, you are definitely gonna hear a change whether it's real or placebo, RIGHT?!!!(LOL) I will say though that when I replaced my HCA1205, 200wpc amp(predecessor to the A-23) the difference was huge, so much so that I sent an e-mail to Parasound inquiring whether my amp might be defective. Their response was "no, we've made allot of improvements since then." I had thought about going with the Halo A-52 but after extensive reading of reviews and user opinions in various forums, I decided to go "big". At least this way I will never ask myself, "I wonder if that bigger amp sounds better".

Did you purchase your A-23 online or from a dealer? If you purchased from a dealer, maybe they'll let you bring home the A-21 on a trial basis. There is nothing better than comparing stuff on one's own equipment.

Here's a fairly informative article. I would suggest that if you are seriously entertaining the idea of going bigger, do like I did and google the internet for info. Should you decide to swap amps, you'll feel better about your purchase knowing that you fully researched the subject.
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