Originally Posted by arnyk
That's how the argument goes. You "know" that your amplifier is running class A and you absolutely believe that this improves its sound quality. What would it take to make you forget this while you are listening to your system?
A good bottle of Scotch and fine cigar.
On numerous occasions I've heard dozens of people say exactly the same thing. Guess what happened when they were treated to a level-matched double blind test? Random guessing. One such person is me. I can tell you what it feels like the first time you hear a unbiased comparison. It is sonic vertigo. Aural free-fall.
Yeah, me too. I personally have never participated in an audio DBT but my Dad once got the best of me and the hundred bucks I wagered when he had me blindfolded and try to guess which distilled spirit I was tasting. Scotch, Vodka, Bourbon and Gin were lined up and I failed miserably.
It was quite the shocker. Try it sometime. BTW; I have found that this is a good moneymaking prank at parties and have recouped my initial hundred dollar loss 20 fold.
Been there, done that and at this point, so have 100's if not 1,000's of people.
This is one place where I disagree. The difference between cymbals that sound lush and full of decay as is presented by the new Halo as compared to the cymbals sounding more like pink noise coming from the amp the Halo replaced is something I think would be fairly easy to nail in a DBT.
Interesting question. Thing is, I don't have to spend any more money out-of-pocket to enjoy those benefits. Even low end AVRs support those features.
Yeah and my comment was somewhat tongue in cheek but the question remains. Why, if the differences in sound between lossy and lossless are also presumably not distinguishable in a DBT, then what is all the hoopla about other than selling more blurays? I personally do hear differences and enjoy the lossless format. Dynamics and clarity, especially when we're talking about sounds like explosions, crashes, gunfire to name a few is just much more realistically presented with a lossless format, in general.
There's still some bad studio mastering but that is a whole nother subject.
FWIW I have done perceptual coder DBTs and I know that Dolby Digital was not always indistinguishable from PCM. Like everybody else you've been listening to DD DVDs for about a decade. Did you feel that every movie you watched for those 10 years was sonically deficient?
At the time, no. But when I go back and watch some of the old DVDs that have been since replaced by blus with the latest audio formats, there is definite and noticable improvement on most, BUT
, not all. If there wasn't, then it would seem a waste to upgrade aside from the enhanced video a bluray presents.
That question ignores enhancements to audio over the past decade(s) that many of us enjoy that can be easily detected in a DBT. Things like multichannel versus stereo, improved loudspeakers, improvements in recording technology, bass management, automated system optimization (Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO, etc.) and so on.
Again, my rhetorical question was largely based in a kind of tongue in cheek presentation. In my situation, I merely stated the improvements heard when I switched amplifiers with everything else remaining the same. Taking the DBT method of audio analysis and using the info garnered, then when making decisions as to which gear I should look at buying, maybe I should scrap my Halo for something I might find on the shelf at BB? Sounds like I'm not gonna be able to tell the difference blindfolded so why waste all that money?!! I'll just be sure to continue wearing my blindfold when listening so that I remain satisfied that what I'm listening to is as good as it gets. Again, more tongue in cheek but I think you are probably catching my drift.
On balance it has been known for about 4 decades that a SS power amp does not need to run in class A up into the range of many watts to be sonically transparent. Plain ordinary class AB amplfiiers done well, which has been standard technology for almost 50 years at this point, do the job. Therefore, the experience that you mentioned at the beginning of your post and used to centerpiece your argument was most likely an illusion.
You're probably right. As I mentioned earlier, I failed miserably at the blindfolded distilled spirit test. I guess I'll start mixing orange juice with my Scotch from now on.
What I'm trying to say with all this diatribe I've spewed is that if we were to solely base our audio gear purchases on some sort of DBT, the world of audio components would be a far more spartan, simpler place with a helluva lot less to choose from but man-o-man, it would indeed be a far more boring place, aurally speaking.
BTW; One other place where I failed miserably is forgetting that I also stated in that last post that this is the PSB Speaker thread and the fact that we could go on and on for days discussing this audio theory stuff meant it would be my last post on the subject. This WILL be my last word as we will never come to terms. I fully understand your position and to some extent, agree. So that is it for me. If you feel that you must rebut, the floor is all yours. Edited by Torqdog - 2/15/13 at 7:56pm