PSB Speakers Owners thread - Page 143

i can appreciated that....PM's are a good way to get around this too. I am really only looking to grab some surround speakers so I can have a fully PSB system.

The first question we must ask before giving any kind of meaningful recommendations is what is your budget?

I have Marantz SR-5007 receiver in the living room system that I would recommend checking out though the SR-7007 or the Marantz separates would probably work better with the T2's.

Before completely ruling out NAD: I had one of the original NAD 3020 integrated amps and used it with pleasure for almost 20 years before the left pot went out. I now have a NAD T748 AVR in my personal system (a.k.a. man cave). With NAD you need to keep a few things in mind the first of which is that their listed specs are extremely conservative. For instance, the T748 is rated at 80 W into 8 ohms in stereo mode (2 channels driven) with dynamic power of 110 W into 8 ohms and 160 W into 4 ohms and 40 W with all 7 channels driven at simultaneously. Also, NAD rates their amps across the entire frequency range of 20 - 20k Hz and not just at the 1kHz convention. So be careful when comparing power specs. I have found NAD to outperform many receivers rated at twice their power.

As for features, I don't miss them not being in the receiver. My Blu-ray player has everything I want including internet streaming and USB inputs (MP3, FLAC, AAC, AIFF, etc). The T748 does have connections for an optional iPod doc. So rather than add redundant features NAD puts the money into the sound and it shows. I probably wouldn't use the T748 to power the PSB Imagine T2's even if I set it up as a 5.1 system and redirected the surround back channels to bi-amp the T2's.

I would think the NAD T757 or T777 or even earlier models such as the T765HD or T775HD would work well. If you go with an earlier model be sure it is the HD or HD2 model otherwise it will not have the decoders for Dolby-True HD or DTS-Master Audio. Also, you can pick up earlier models at significant discounts. Check out Spearit Sound www.spearitsound.com/ and browse by brand for NAD. You can pick up a refurbished T765HD2, T775HD, or T775HD2 for half of what they originally sold for with warranty and free shipping.

So...after a lot of research I am still contimplating buying PSB speakers. Some of you might know my ordeal with the only dealer nearby (less than stellar!!!!!). I saw that DCM Electronics has the Imagine Minis for $570/pr. How would that match up with a C4 center? Or, would it still be better to get B stock B5's from saturdayaudio.com or DCM for much less ($329/pr)? If I go this route I am thinking I might save some money as I dont listen to music at all on my system (only TV/HT use) and use Monoprice in-ceilings for rears (or surrounds and rears if I choose to go 7.1). I used the MP speakers in my old townhouse and they were FANTASTIC (not even going to say "for the money" as they were just awesome at any level). Could someone explain the difference between the Imagine and Image lines. I dont need deep base from the speakers as that will be taken care of by my sub (BIC F12).

I would go cheaper. So if it's the PSB's you want the Image B5. Since it's not for music you really don't have to spend a lot to get good sound for movies I've heard speakers sound great for movies but awful for music.

I am running the NAD T757 with the Imagine T2 towers for the past few weeks, I agree with mlundy57's assessment. There is more than enough power when biamped to make the T2 towers sing. I really prefer the simplicity of the NAD over the competition's fluff. The sound is excellent, detailed and wide without being too bright. I listened to the Marantz, Pioneer, and Denon extensively before purchasing the T757, unless I went with separates I would make the same decision again.

Thank you. Can anyone else chime in? Did you mean that the B5's sound good for movies but bad for music, or did you mean other speakers can?

I'm saying if PSB is the brand you want you don't have buy the more expensive PSB the B5's should be good enough for movies.
And really any speaker which is consider fairly decent should be good with movies.
Only if it's for music is when choosing a speaker can be more difficult.
Edited by nothingspecial - 3/9/13 at 6:25am

And that's the beauty in buying the psb image line. Hey sound fantastic for both!

IMHO, it's not so black and white, cut and dry when comparing speakers for movie usage only. Many of today's soundtracks with the lossless formats available on blu-ray have wonderful scores that just like music, benefit from a better speaker. Also, dynamics like explosions, gunfire and the like come across as more realistic as well. I'm speaking only from personal experience related to my recent upgrades.

I always try to get the best gear I can afford so I'm not asking myself the "what if" question down the road. YMMV!

The Image series is a step down from the Imagines in that:
1) the Image are a bit more laid back and a bit less detailed sounding. They definitely sound different if you compare them side by side. The Imagine's more advanced tweeter makes a lot of the difference here
2) they don't look as nice. The cabinetry of the Imagines are sexy/curvy.

The advantage of going with the cheaper B5 over an Imagine Mini has to do with dynamics. The Mini is really only going to be able to put out clean sound in smaller rooms. If you start to push the volume up, they will start sounding constricted. In a smaller room, they sound amazing for both movies and music. Also with the Minis, you really should select a crossover around 80Hz (I recommend even 100Hz) otherwise the midbass is going to suffer as the Minis struggle to fill in the critical 70-100Hz which is the slam in a lot of sound. The Image B5 will fare a lot better, it's just physics. If you go with the Mini, make sure your sub can provide the upper bass (some subs just roll off too early and you won't get a good blend)

Personally, I'd take quality over quantity every time, but you still have to be sure that the Mini is up to the task of filling your room with adequate volume

Thanks everyone for the input. I am leaning towards the B5 if I go PSB....plus I think they will work better with the C4, which I stated before, is pretty much the biggest center I can go with.

I am not too concerned with the Image series sounding a little laid back. I have a Yamaha receiver which is very forward (this is why I am considering against the Klipsch Reference series), so I think they will sound just right!

My room is 15x15, so I would say that it is medium in size. How much clearance does a B5 need behind it for air movement through the port? I can do maybe 5-6".

My sub (BIC F12) LOVES to be crossed over at around 80hz, so the B5's would be great.

With the extra cash maybe the wife will let me buy 2 pairs of the monoprice speakers for both surrounds AND rears! WOOHOO!!!! 7.1!

I agree. My Image B6's sound fantastic with both movies and music including high definition music in the forms of SACD, DVD Audio and HD FLAC files. My FLAC files range from 44.1/16 (CD quality) to 176.4/24 HD. Classical guitar, symphonic, jazz, pop, classic rock, new age, movie soundtracks and dialogue are all suburb. When I first bought the B6's I had to buy them without being able to audition them first but I had a 60 day in-home trial period during which I could send them back for a full refund if I decided I didn't like them. A local store allowed me to bring my B6's in and audition them alongside the speakers they sold. The PSB B6 sounded better than every bookshelf speaker they sold except for one. It took a B&W CM-5 to sound better than the PSB B6. But then the CM-5's are $1,500 a pair vs $550 a pair for the B6.

Based on reviews I have read the only real performance difference there is between the B5 and the B6 is that the B6 has more base extension and presence. Since you plan on using a sub this shouldn't be an issue. My point is that the B5's will sound great for both movies and music if you do play any. After all, movies have soundtracks which include music (some more than others).

If you go with the PSB B5's you won't be dissappointed. The C4 is the matching center for the B5. The C5 is the best match for the B6.

I agree with your assessment regarding the Klipsch Reference series. I have the Klipsch reference series II speakers in my living room. They were a little too bright for my tastes when driven by the NAD T748 but sound great with the Marantz SR-5007. The PSB's really shine with the NAD.
Edited by mlundy57 - 3/9/13 at 11:33am

Also beware as I have said before. Since getting the b6 I gave gone from 95/5 movies/music to 50/50

So I went back and listened to the Klipsch again. Some areas, and some songs, they were flat out awesome. Others, the highs were in deed to bright. I really liked the Monitor Audio Radius 90's, and they were small so a huge WAF! ...but then again some tracks they beat the Klipsch, others it was too laid back. Anyone heard these in comparison with the PSB Image series?

Anyone here who has more experience with the Imagine T2 care to elaborate on the characteristics of the titanium dome tweeter? I've gotta say every audition with these has been absolutely fantastic and I'm price shopping right now for a pair. I think I'll have all my data points by late next week. It's coming down to the Imagine T2 and Salk SCST with the ribbon tweeter. The PSB's I can get for significantly less money and like I said, I've been wow'd by them several times. Just wondering about room harmonics and things of that nature.

I just picked up a pair of Image T5's with matching C5 center..

For the last 8 years I was running a basic Klipsch SB3 Bookshelf / C1 Center setup and my first choice when replacing was going to be
Klipsch RF62II / RC62II setup..

I demoed the Klipsch & Image T5's, The Klipsch's I felt sounded great but In the end I went with the PSB's as I liked the warmer sound a
little better but it was hard esp the pricing..

I couldn't believe the Klipsch authorized dealer was willing to sell me 2 New RF62II's + RC62 for $950 OTD ( Retail $1540 )

The PSB dealers best price was barely less than the retail of $1399+ Tax ( Image C5/T5 ) It seems the PSB hold there value alot more and you
cant negotiate as much with them.

PS, Saw this earlier in thread ( I know it was in 2010 but thats when they were newer ) IS THIS A real quote?

Thats like almost 35% off of MSRP, My dealer swore I was getting a good price at $850 befire tax for T5's
Edited by quiksr20 - 3/15/13 at 7:52pm

So I finally found a dealer near-ish to me (40 miles away!) that has actually B5's for me to listen to, plus he also said they have Totem speakers (reviews are good) and Golden Ear Aon2's (loved the clarity of folded tweeters!). Going to go in about another week to hear them all. Hopefully it helps in my decision.

good luck! and make sure to report back!

So everyone.....upon Brians ^^ recommendation I went and listened to the B5's, compared them to GE Aon 3's, B&W 686's, Totem Dreamcatchers, and the Klipsch RB51's. Here are my results:

Klipsch---While I loved the Klipsch, they were just a little *too* much on the high's, not enough middle.
Dreamcatchers---total let down for all the hype about how good they are. Personally, since they were the most expensive by a couple hundred dollars, they were the worst of the bunch, and by a LOT!
B&W---Too laid back....it sounded like there was a painting tarp over them. They sounded just plain muddy.
GE---Not bad, but not great. Once again, for all the hype a major let down.


So....drum roll please....the PSB's were FAR AND AWAY the best speaker I have heard. Super clear highs without the screeching at times on the high end like the Klipsch. Nice punchy base, solid mids. What can I say....I freakin loved them! I bought (2) CW160R's for the rears for $100 a piece (regularly $270-300) from audioadvisor on demo closeout. Next week I will be placing my order for the B5's and C4 (unless I can talk my wife into letting me have the B6/C5 combo!!!). Thanks for all your guidance....and special thanks to Brian Fineberg.

My pleasure buddy!! I wouldn't steer you wrong . I am am still in bliss with mine (been 4 months now)

My next goal is to get matching rears

Please report back with pic and impressions once they are in your setup. Glad the long drive was worth it

Just got a new pair of Image B5s in for my desktop setup. They are great!! Full sound and they image well even 3 ft apart and 3 ft from the listener. Most of the time the sound appeared to be coming from the middle of my computer monitor. When it wasn't centered it wasn't supposed to be i.e. sax on one side of the stage coming from one speaker and trumpet on the other side of the stage from the other speaker. They also blend with the sub a lot better than the satellite speakers I was using.

I have discovered that desktop applications are not limited to mini monitors. I have also learned that the larger speakers cannot sit directly on my desk, you can feel the desktop vibrating. The speakers need to go on stands. My desk is too close to the wall to fit a pair of floor stands behind it and I couldn't find any desktop stands that would do what I needed so I am making a pair. I have a new to me amp on the way for this system, it should be here Monday.

border411, at this point the difference between B5 + C4 and B6 + C5 is $200 retail. If there is any way to swing it I think you will be a lot happier with the B6 + C5 combo. I now have B6s in one system and B5s in another. They are both fantastic speakers but the B6s have more bass extension and are just, well a little more all around. The same for the C5 vs the C4. If you go with B-stock (factory seconds) you can get a pair of B6s and a C5 for about the same price as the B5s and C4 normally retail for.
Edited by mlundy57 - 3/23/13 at 3:38pm

I don't think his issue is money. It's size. Am I correct border?

There isn't that much of a difference in size between the B5 and the B6. The B6 is 2" taller, 1" deeper, and 5/8" wider. Sitting side by side and looking at them from the front the only difference you can see is that the B6 is just a tad taller. So just about anywhere a B5 will fit a B6 will also.

The C5 is 5-1/4" wider, 1-3/4" taller, and 3" deeper than the C4. While the C5 is definitely larger than the C4, at 19-1/2" W x 7-1/8" H x 10-1/2" D the C5 will still fit in any equipment rack or AV console (unlike the Klipsch RC-62 II center speaker I have in the living room, that puppy is huge).
Edited by mlundy57 - 3/23/13 at 4:23pm

The B6 will fit if you have the space. The B5 is going inside of a 18" bookshelf, and there isnt the room without moving ALL kinds of stuff around to change the height of the shelves. The C5 will fit on my mantel, but then I cant get a bigger TV. All about trade-offs.

Yes Brian....it isnt a money issue. It is a size issue.

Prices have gone up since 2010. Current retail prices are:
T5 - $1,000
C5 - $ 400
S5 - $ 900

Sometimes you can find B-stock items for 20% off

Well now I dont feel so bad, Would you say a pair of T5's + C5 for $1300 is a good price out the door tax included?
Thats the price I got from my local dealer and I bought them.. I love them so far just looking at new receivers.

Im torn between a few Denon / Marantz models, Now that I know there both virtually the same its basically down to looks.

Going ahead with either a SR6006 or 3312CI hopefully these are a good match to PSB's They sound great with my 8 year old HK

Here those speakers would have been a little over $1,500 with tax. Denon and Marantz are both good receivers, I have one of each. Your new speakers will soung great with whichever one you choose.

Cool thats comforting to hear on both counts! Loving these speakers and cant wait for the new receiver!

Thanks for the reply.

I'm torn about the B5 / C5 combo that I currently have. The speakers sound great... if you're sitting right in the sweet spot and I've found this sweet spot to be rather small. Maybe that's more a factor of my room layout rather than the speakers, but then again when I was purchasing them the sales rep mentioned they had a precise sweet spot... If I were to keep this set up I'd replace the B5's with B6's... there is an noticeable rolloff of bass at higher volumes ( greater than ~ -27db) with the B5's. If you've got a sub, it shouldn't be much of an issue. I've tried a few subs and it just doesn't work well with my apartment living situation. If I were using the speakers for a desktop application and was going to be listening in the exact same spot all the time, they'd be great, but I'm on a couch shifting around in and out of the sweet spot which makes me always notice that the speakers are there. Just thought I'd throw out my experience with them FWIW.