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PSB Speakers Owners thread - Page 26

post #751 of 4577
2/20/08 at 8:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by larkowski1 View Post

When I auditioned the T45s almost a year ago, they were using an NAD integrated and I was worried about how the PSB gear would sound with my receiver (Sony doesn't seem to get a lot of positive attention for their receivers and amps), but I'm pleasantly surprised. I can't wait for my T45s!

You know, I think people should not be surprised that almost any modern amp will perform excepionally well. Almost all manufactures have nailed that part of the reproduction chain for the mid to upper parts of their product lines. Sure, you can screw things up, over driving a low wattage amp, or getting an amp that won't handle a low impedance speaker and then matching it with exactly that, but for most speakers, most amps are going to do exactly what they should do. (And this is coming from a guy who once helped haul the Brystons in and out of the PSB suite at more than one audio show.)

Don't get me wrong, a good amp is still a good amp, but a bad amp is getting to be a pretty rare beast...
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post #752 of 4577
2/21/08 at 11:02am
[quote=scientest;13167746]

PSBs typically have pretty good dispersion, minor changes shouldn't have a lot of effect. However, I don't know the B25's well enough to guess how they'd react. One big thing; by changing the toe in you are moving the reflections off the side walls, have a look at the first reflection calculator:

First reflection calculator

(just set a fake first row and ignore it).
QUOTE]
Do you know what the different colours (my cdn side showing through) mean on the calculator?

Have you used the calculator and then treated your room accordingly? If so, do you have some methods that you use for treatment? I read, some time ago, that using tapestry's etc at the points of reflection would help in dampening the effect.

now let's see what the Mrs. will let me do
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post #753 of 4577
2/21/08 at 11:20am
Just upgraded my speakers with the C60, T65 and B15's. I ordered from DMC last Monday and had them Friday. While they had "cosmetic issues", there was nothing that I could see. I saw one "smudge" that I haven't really tried to fix as its hardly noticeable. The set looks almost perfect. If you're in the market for PSB's, can't imagine how you could go wrong. Sound is amazing. Crisp but not too bright and certainly not muddy. Only negative is my wife hates them. Went from little bookshelves to these massive fronts. I can tell she was enjoying how they sounded although she would never admit it. She keeps asking when they're going back.

For my question, I am currently running a HK 600 series receiver that lacks any HDMI inputs. As I am about to upgrade to Blu Ray, this is going to be an issue for optimal sound. It's already an issue as I'm out of HDMI inputs on my plasma and life would be much easier just running everything through my receiver. I could always upgrade to a newer HK model with HDMI. Before I do, can anyone recommend a receiver or two to match with these speakers. Unfortunately, most of my listening is limited to around -25 db. System is mostly for home theatre although a good portion of my viewing is DVD concerts or the HD music cable channel. I was considering checking out the Marantz 8001 as some people have said it has "similar" sound quality. Any help would be great. Budget between 500-1000, 3 HDMI Inputs, 1 Output, stuff like TrueHD and DTS-MA sounds nice but may not required as I think I would be happy with PCM.

Thanks for any feedback.
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post #754 of 4577
2/21/08 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffTay View Post

Do you know what the different colours (my cdn side showing through) mean on the calculator?

They correlate to the speakers. The red is the left front, blue, the right front, yellow the center,

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffTay View Post

Have you used the calculator and then treated your room accordingly? If so, do you have some methods that you use for treatment? I read, some time ago, that using tapestry's etc at the points of reflection would help in dampening the effect.

I've used it to figure out what I'm up against. My biggest problems are ceiling and floor. The floor is relatively easy, we'll see if my "missus" will let me do anything about the ceiling....

Tapestry on the walls will help some depending on what you do. Have you followed any of the DIY theater construction threads? Tons of information in them (and elsewhere her eon AVS) on room treatments.
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post #755 of 4577
2/21/08 at 11:25am
A couple quick questions -

I have image T45's, C40, and B15's in a 5.1 setup. Have an OLD small CSW sub I'm using now, with an eD A3-300 on the way. Loving the images so far... I'm using an Onkyo 705 as the receiver. I know at least a few of you have similar setups.

1) What kind of cross-over settings do you use? Audyssey finds the 45's and C40 as full range, which I manually change. Right now I have the crossover's manually set - 45's and C40 set to 50Hz and the B15's set to 60Hz. The sub is set at 80Hz (THX) - lowest setting the 705 will allow for the sub.

Everything sounds great to me (hopefully better when I get the new sub). I'm just curious what happens when I'm technically getting "extra" sound in the 50 - 80Hz region with the overlap. Would I be better off going up to 80Hz on the (5) speakers? Or maybe 70Hz to allow some tapering off between 70 - 80?

2) I really like the looks of the Images. I like 'em a bit more without the grills off. Any issues if I leave the grills off permanently? I don't have kids so I don't have to worry about them getting poked or anything - I guess I'm just wondering about long-term dust collection & stuff getting in the crevices and such. I've been thinking about just using some canned air to blow the dust off every week or so (not high pressure or anything).

Thanks in advance!
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post #756 of 4577
2/21/08 at 1:56pm
I can't comment specifically on the T45s (because mine get delivered tomorrow), but just be careful about the bass management of your receiver. Some are brain dead. I think the LFE channel can contain information as high as 120Hz and setting that channel too low can result in lost information. I'm not sure if more recent receivers are better, but I seem to recall some of the older ones did some pretty silly things in this regard.

What I did with my last system was use the AVIA test disk's low frequency sweep to find the setting that resulted in the fewest spikes on the way down. I jotted down where (and how bad) my spikes were at each setting. Also, trust your ears.

I'll be figuring this out for myself with the PSBs this weekend hoopefully.
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post #757 of 4577
2/21/08 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by couchMan1 View Post

UMtiger, thanks to you and PR Audio for the feedback. That's very helpful. One more question: do you own the GB1s? I'm wondering if they have screw holes on the back for use with mounting brackets, and if PSB offers matching brackets that I can use to rotate and aim the GB1s as desired.

My current 5.1 setup has direct radiating speakers as the side speakers. I have them wall-mounted on some brackets that allow me to rotate them side to side and up and down, so I can point them at just the right spot on the rear wall to give me a uniform sound field for surround effects (kind of a poor-man's dipole arrangement). This actually works quite well in my space. I'm wondering if I'll be able to do the same thing with the GT1s. The GT1s are heavier than my existing speakers, so I'm not sure my current brackets will hold them, hence my question about PSB brackets -- I don't see any on their Web site. Plus, for my existing brackets I had to drill screw holes in the backs of my speakers, which I'm reluctant to do with the more-expensive GT1s.

BTech BT-77 wall mount www.btechavmounts.com

They hold speakers up to 55 lbs. each. Probably the highest rating in the market. Also, they have a mount for center channels.
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post #758 of 4577
2/21/08 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by foamfoot View Post

Just upgraded my speakers with the C60, T65 and B15's. I ordered from DMC last Monday and had them Friday. While they had "cosmetic issues", there was nothing that I could see. I saw one "smudge" that I haven't really tried to fix as its hardly noticeable. The set looks almost perfect. If you're in the market for PSB's, can't imagine how you could go wrong. Sound is amazing. Crisp but not too bright and certainly not muddy. Only negative is my wife hates them. Went from little bookshelves to these massive fronts. I can tell she was enjoying how they sounded although she would never admit it. She keeps asking when they're going back.

For my question, I am currently running a HK 600 series receiver that lacks any HDMI inputs. As I am about to upgrade to Blu Ray, this is going to be an issue for optimal sound. It's already an issue as I'm out of HDMI inputs on my plasma and life would be much easier just running everything through my receiver. I could always upgrade to a newer HK model with HDMI. Before I do, can anyone recommend a receiver or two to match with these speakers. Unfortunately, most of my listening is limited to around -25 db. System is mostly for home theatre although a good portion of my viewing is DVD concerts or the HD music cable channel. I was considering checking out the Marantz 8001 as some people have said it has "similar" sound quality. Any help would be great. Budget between 500-1000, 3 HDMI Inputs, 1 Output, stuff like TrueHD and DTS-MA sounds nice but may not required as I think I would be happy with PCM.

Thanks for any feedback.

As for the wife, don't worry she will forget in a couple of months; meanwhile hold your ground...

As for receiver, I have had very good experience with the Marantz/PSB combo, and NAD/PSB combo. But, to get the newest audio codecs, and HDMI 1.3 with these two brands, will take more than $500-$1000 budget. If you can land a refurbished or used Marantz SR-7002 for less than $1K it will be a great buy. But, you can consider the following options:

Marantz SR-4002 (http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/r...marantz-sr4002)
Marantz SR-5002
Onkyo 605/705/805
Yamaha RX-VXXX

I highly recommend the SR-4002 or 5002.

Anyways, if you want to hear more opinions go to the Amp/Receiver area, there are many threads about this receivers.
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post #759 of 4577
2/21/08 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by foamfoot View Post

Just upgraded my speakers with the C60, T65 and B15's. I ordered from DMC last Monday and had them Friday. While they had "cosmetic issues", there was nothing that I could see. I saw one "smudge" that I haven't really tried to fix as its hardly noticeable. The set looks almost perfect. If you're in the market for PSB's, can't imagine how you could go wrong. Sound is amazing. Crisp but not too bright and certainly not muddy.

I agree that a small cosmetic issues aren't going to have any effect on the great PSB sound, but DMC's prices aren't that great considering you're getting a less than perfect product. I don't mean to knock on your purchase, you got a good deal. It's just that my local dealer sells nearly all the Image series at less or the same than DMC and they are non-blemished A stock. I'd recommend everyone call their local PSB dealer for pricing before going the DMC route.
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post #760 of 4577
2/22/08 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PR Audio View Post

BTech BT-77 wall mount www.btechavmounts.com

They hold speakers up to 55 lbs. each. Probably the highest rating in the market. Also, they have a mount for center channels.

Excellent, thanks!
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post #761 of 4577
2/22/08 at 7:32am
I am building my first 5.1 HT for my basement room (12w x 18l with open walls on right and back) (50% movies, 50% music) and have finally decided to spend the extra money an upgrade from the Alpha series to the Image series (T45, C40, and ceilings for rears). So now my last decision to make is choosing the sub.

I know very little about subs (or speakers for that matter) and was hoping someone could share their opinion on the subs. I was hoping keep cost at a minimum so I was thinking of going with the 5i. Will the 5i be powerful enough for the Images and room setup (I like to play music loud)? Or should I spend the extra $200 for the 6i? Any other reasons I should consider upgrading or not upgrading to the 6i?

Thanks.
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post #762 of 4577
2/22/08 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jking12 View Post

So now my last decision to make is choosing the sub.

See my comments just a couple of posts earlier in this thread...
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post #763 of 4577
2/22/08 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

They correlate to the speakers. The red is the left front, blue, the right front, yellow the center,



I've used it to figure out what I'm up against. My biggest problems are ceiling and floor. The floor is relatively easy, we'll see if my "missus" will let me do anything about the ceiling....

Tapestry on the walls will help some depending on what you do. Have you followed any of the DIY theater construction threads? Tons of information in them (and elsewhere her eon AVS) on room treatments.

Listened to my original Queen War of the Worlds last night (a little worn because of extensive play time until I was able to enlarge my library) and it sounded good. At times I almost traveled back 31years and was the 14 year old listening in my bedroom.

So it seems the system has settled down again.

I am really coming to the conclusion that my lack of bass is killing me or I should say good bass. I think I am turning up the volume too high in an unsuccessful attempt to get the full sound I want.

I think I should focus on the sub now and see were that gets me.

Thanks for all the back and forth. I think it has helped me focus on were my system is lacking.

Jeff
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post #764 of 4577
2/22/08 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffTay View Post

Listened to my original Queen War of the Worlds last night (a little worn because of extensive play time until I was able to enlarge my library) and it sounded good. At times I almost traveled back 31years and was the 14 year old listening in my bedroom.

So it seems the system has settled down again.

Unfortunately it could also be that on that particular album the wear had essentially resulted in the high frequencies being attenuated?

[/quote]I am really coming to the conclusion that my lack of bass is killing me or I should say good bass. I think I am turning up the volume too high in an unsuccessful attempt to get the full sound I want.

I think I should focus on the sub now and see were that gets me.[/quote]

That might help, but I've got to ask; if that was the problem wouldn't you also be hearing it on CDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffTay View Post

Thanks for all the back and forth. I think it has helped me focus on were my system is lacking.

Glad to help. Good luck and report back...
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post #765 of 4577
2/22/08 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

Unfortunately it could also be that on that particular album the wear had essentially resulted in the high frequencies being attenuated?

I am really coming to the conclusion that my lack of bass is killing me or I should say good bass. I think I am turning up the volume too high in an unsuccessful attempt to get the full sound I want.

I think I should focus on the sub now and see were that gets me.[/quote]

That might help, but I've got to ask; if that was the problem wouldn't you also be hearing it on CDs?



Glad to help. Good luck and report back...[/quote]

to quote a great man:

"there he goes again"

pointing out the obvious

I will continue to try other sources.

BTW I have not put much effort into CD. The player I have is a $156 combo SACD/CD and I do not think it performs at a very high level. The sounds I get from my LPs is what I love.

Blu-Ray, DVD and Direct TV HDTV sounds good.
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post #766 of 4577
2/22/08 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffTay View Post

"there he goes again"

pointing out the obvious

Chuckle, sorry about that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffTay View Post

BTW I have not put much effort into CD. The player I have is a $156 combo SACD/CD and I do not think it performs at a very high level. The sounds I get from my LPs is what I love.

Blu-Ray, DVD and Direct TV HDTV sounds good.

I own somewhere around 1000 LPs, love them all, but I think the truth of the matter is, unless you have some ancient CD player with bad brick wall filters in it or such, even a relatively cheap CD player is probably going to be a more accurate source than most vinyl setups (and I've spent some many, many $1000's on my vinyl setup) .

There are lots of poorly recorded CDs but don't discount your cheap player just because it's cheap. With a good CD or two it might be a very accurate source.
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post #767 of 4577
2/22/08 at 10:36am
Well, DHL delivered my T45s today. They are amazing. Not even spiked off the carpet yet and not placed very well and they sound fantastic! I just want to listen to music and watch dvds for about the next week now! I'm not sure my wife and kids are going to be into this plan.......

As far as the cheap cd player, if you have a nicer receiver than you do cd player, use the dac in their. I use the Burr-Brown dac in my receiver over the dac in my $130 sony dvd/cd/sacd player (which does great on video for the price). Cds sound fine here (even better now!)
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post #768 of 4577
2/22/08 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by larkowski1 View Post

As far as the cheap cd player, if you have a nicer receiver than you do cd player, use the dac in their. I use the Burr-Brown dac in my receiver over the dac in my $130 sony dvd/cd/sacd player (which does great on video for the price). Cds sound fine here (even better now!)

Yeah, that thought occurred to me as I was walking back to my desk from lunch. Hopefully Jeff has a player with some form of digital output, but his receiver will certainly do a more than adequate job if it does...
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post #769 of 4577
2/22/08 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

Yeah, that thought occurred to me as I was walking back to my desk from lunch. Hopefully Jeff has a player with some form of digital output, but his receiver will certainly do a more than adequate job if it does...


My player does have digital out, unfortunately only optical, everything I have tried and read says that you get a better signal with coax(phono) digital out.

You know, I will play some of my CD's tonight and let you know how they sound.

Thanks for the input guys.
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post #770 of 4577
2/22/08 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffTay View Post

My player does have digital out, unfortunately only optical, everything I have tried and read says that you get a better signal with coax(phono) digital out.

You sure run into that a lot don't you, accompanied by hand waving about how cheap the Toslink receivers are, like you need some major investment to recover an optical stream and convert it into an electrical signal (can you say photocell and op-amp anyone?)...

Personally I can't hear the difference if I hook up a piece of equipment that supports both and switch between the two of them. Have yet to meet anyone who can.
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post #771 of 4577
2/22/08 at 12:37pm
"Personally I can't hear the difference if I hook up a piece of equipment that supports both and switch between the two of them. Have yet to meet anyone who can." Sci

There he goes again.

In a feeble attempt to stay on thread topic. I am still planning to update my 10 year paradigm sub and center with PSB's.

Scientist, I have explored the link you posted earlier. I was reading about the eD subs and was impressed. But I am not ready to that mom and pop on my HT and HA purchases yet.

I saw a couple of $599 subs on the link I will check out.

Any thoughts on the "AV123 MFW-15"

Lark, any input on PSB Centers and subs or others?

Thanks for the input guys.
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post #772 of 4577
2/22/08 at 2:02pm
If I were to go with the C60, I would either need to wallmount it behind and above the TV or mount it on top of the TV. I am wondering what would be the best option. I was looking at the B-TECH BT15 mount for the wallmount or the B-TECH BT14 mount for the TV mount. I have a Sony KDS-60A2000 TV with the Sony SURS11X stand if that helps any. The C60 is about an inch and a half too tall to fit in either of the shelves of the TV stand. The thing I am worried about with the TV mount is that it might be putting too much weight on the plastic on the back of the TV. The thing I am worried about with mounting it on the wall is the sound has the potential to reflect off of the TV and back to the wall, or it might create the illusion that the soundstage is further back than it really is.

Which option do you guys think is the best? Another option is to get the C40 which should fit in the bottom shelf of the TV stand.
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post #773 of 4577
2/22/08 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffTay View Post

"In a feeble attempt to stay on thread topic. I am still planning to update my 10 year paradigm sub and center with PSB's.

I saw a couple of $599 subs on the link I will check out.

Any thoughts on the "AV123 MFW-15"

Lark, any input on PSB Centers and subs or others?

Thanks for the input guys.

The av123 sub looks impressive (and large). I'm currently running my T45s and B15s (as of today) in a "4.0" configuration with a phantom center and no sub (The T45's are set to large). After another couple paychecks (to please the wife , I'm going to get the C40 (since it matches everything else). The T45's play low enough (~35 Hz based on my meter, ears, and AVIA disk) for me for music and low enough for now for movies. In the longer term, I'm probably going to get an SVS sub, but I'll do research again when and if that time comes.
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post #774 of 4577
2/22/08 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffTay View Post

A local delaer has a $1300 Martin Logan Sub on sale for $700. I forget the model (last years I am sure), but what do you think of ML?

For the same money you should look into AV123 MFW-15,these subs KICK.http://**********/index.php?page=shop...mart&Itemid=37http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ight=craigsubs
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post #775 of 4577
2/22/08 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

I agree that a small cosmetic issues aren't going to have any effect on the great PSB sound, but DMC's prices aren't that great considering you're getting a less than perfect product. I don't mean to knock on your purchase, you got a good deal. It's just that my local dealer sells nearly all the Image series at less or the same than DMC and they are non-blemished A stock. I'd recommend everyone call their local PSB dealer for pricing before going the DMC route.

Actually, I found their "cosmetically damaged" speakers to have an excellent price, even for speakers with minor cosmetic damage. But, at the same time I found their A-Stock PSB's to be expensive; list price only.
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post #776 of 4577
2/22/08 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolkid1935 View Post

If I were to go with the C60, I would either need to wallmount it behind and above the TV or mount it on top of the TV. I am wondering what would be the best option. I was looking at the B-TECH BT15 mount for the wallmount or the B-TECH BT14 mount for the TV mount. I have a Sony KDS-60A2000 TV with the Sony SURS11X stand if that helps any. The C60 is about an inch and a half too tall to fit in either of the shelves of the TV stand. The thing I am worried about with the TV mount is that it might be putting too much weight on the plastic on the back of the TV. The thing I am worried about with mounting it on the wall is the sound has the potential to reflect off of the TV and back to the wall, or it might create the illusion that the soundstage is further back than it really is.

Which option do you guys think is the best? Another option is to get the C40 which should fit in the bottom shelf of the TV stand.

How large is your room, and what receiver or amp you have? The C40 is a very good center, and might just do the trick. Be advised that B-Tech's BT14 is very sturdy, and does a good job at distributing the weight throuhgout the TV shell. You shouldn't have any problems going this route.
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post #777 of 4577
2/22/08 at 8:29pm
Lately people tend to concentrate on the subs being offered by ID's, which are very good indeed. But, be advised that from the traditional manufacturers PSB makes some of the best subs out there. 6i is a very good sub that goes head to head with offerings from the ID's.

Having said that, AV123 MFW-15 is a highly regarded sub, and haven't still heard a complaint from anyone, just good comments. My opinion is that if you don't want to go thru the hassle of waiting on your MFW, as it is my understanding that they are sold out and on backorder, and the price is right don't hesitate and buy a 6i.
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post #778 of 4577
2/22/08 at 8:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PR Audio View Post

How large is your room, and what receiver or amp you have? The C40 is a very good center, and might just do the trick. Be advised that B-Tech's BT14 is very sturdy, and does a good job at distributing the weight throuhgout the TV shell. You shouldn't have any problems going this route.

Currently I have a Sony STR-DG800 receiver, but I am thinking about upgrading here in the hopefully near future. The room is a 20x11-7 room.
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post #779 of 4577
2/22/08 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolkid1935 View Post

Currently I have a Sony STR-DG800 receiver, but I am thinking about upgrading here in the hopefully near future. The room is a 20x11-7 room.

My room is 13' Wide x 17' Long x 12' High. The center is about 8' from the seating position. It is a C40, and it sounds very well, even at low volume. No need to turn up and down the volume, as to not miss dialogue. But, if your seating position is 12'+ from the center I would consider the C60.
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post #780 of 4577
2/22/08 at 11:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PR Audio View Post

My room is 13' Wide x 17' Long x 12' High. The center is about 8' from the seating position. It is a C40, and it sounds very well, even at low volume. No need to turn up and down the volume, as to not miss dialogue. But, if your seating position is 12'+ from the center I would consider the C60.

The room is 20' long. I am not completely sure on the exact breakdown on where the first and second row is relative to the TV, but I am pretty sure it is more than 12'. When we are back up there in March (new house being built) I will be sure to take some measurements.
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