TDC775 Tahoe Pace 700 Series - High Definition DVR - Page 8

what guide software are you using? If you are using TVGuide like most of us (Lindend, does the Tahoe even run other guide software??), you control recordings from the guide, and view them from the dvr section. If you aren't familiar with this, you might want to download the iGuide manual from Motorola (the iGuide or TVGuide manual from Motorola works fine with the Tahoe) to learn about all of the features there. you also might need to ask your cableco about instructions for the remote you have, as the one in the Guides may be different from yours.

Note to lindend: add guide manuals to your list of additions to the Tahoe FAQ website

[quote=wildrock]what guide software are you using? If you are using TVGuide like most of us (Lindend, does the Tahoe even run other guide software??), you control recordings from the guide, and view them from the dvr section. If you aren't familiar with this, you might want to download the iGuide manual from Motorola (the iGuide or TVGuide manual from Motorola works fine with the Tahoe) to learn about all of the features there. you also might need to ask your cableco about instructions for the remote you have, as the one in the Guides may be different from yours.


thanks, that guide helped a lot,, again thanks

If its asking you to do a VCR recording, your box has not been authorized for DVR service. Does your cable company require an additional fee for DVR functionality and have you subscribed to that service?

Tahoe is capable of running Guide software from multiple vendors. At this point, only TV Guide has been publicly released on Pace set tops.


I suspect we don't have the rights to do this, but I'll check.

I can"t find "DVR" anywhere in the menu,, only "vcr" ,,, Im sorry if these ? seem dumb


Just saw you reply to check with cable co. I will do so Mon. Thanks

I have had a pace 775 from Delta Cable for about 3 weeks now and have experienced increasing instability to the point now where the box is mostly inoperable.

Over the last few weeks with increasing frequency the box would occasionally reboot itself. The reboots were usually when viewing live HD, and were proceeded by video artifacts and then a freeze of the video with audio still present.

Now the reboots have become very frequent. Most recently the box would get in a state where it would reboot continuously. As soon as the reboot was complete it would freeze and reboot again. I found that if I could quickly change to analog content on both tuners I could sometimes break the reboot cycle and the system would be stable for a while.

Also about 50% of the time after an uncommanded reboot the program guide would fail to reload. The box would still attempt to record preprogrammed content, but no guide was ever downloaded and the PVR menu only showed HOME.

I noticed on the OOB screen that the SNR hovers around 20 swapping between FAIR and GOOD. The InBand screens show much better, but still there could be some cable issues.

What could be causing the reboots, and is there a way to reset the device. I have been going to standby for 30 seconds followed by power off, but it does not seem to help?

Is there a way to confirm that the data link is in the process of downloading a new guide?

Still have the VoD issue - sadly - I'm probably going to have to return the Pace box and go back to my Moto box.

The VoD problem is simply unacceptable at this point for our situation. :\\

At this point, I'd recommend reformatting your hard drive. Are you willing to lose any recordings you've previously done? If so, please see the instructions I gave wildrock earlier on in this thread to reformat the drive from diagnostics (i.e. press

Repeat
MyDVR
MyDVR
MyDVR
Live

in diagnostics to format the drive).

Note: you may have a List key rather than MyDVR on your remote.



I don't understand what you mean by guide fail to reload. Do you mean you didn't get guide data?



Not enough information available right now to determine what the cause is.


I don't think that will help your situation.



Tahoe does a background download when you get a firmware update (i.e. it won't reboot just to download the image). It will only reboot when the image is ready to run. I don't think this is what you are encountering.

I just spoke with one of the tech manager types at Armstrong and he mentioned that he's had a few reports of this issue.

Linden - before I return the Pace box - do you think there's any chance a fix will be forthcoming soon? I know there's a lot involved to push a new build out and get the carriers to push it through too but I'd really like to keep the box. I'll end up having to pay for both boxes until I return one or the other.

I haven't had a chance to try the turning the TV off thing yet - but I'm assuming that by you suggesting that that you suspect maybe my HDMI "in" on my Samsung TV may be going? I never had this issue with the Moto box - but I suppose it's possible my TV's hdmi in could just happen to start going the same time I switched to the Pace box.

It depends on your definition of soon.

To get a fix into a build, we first must:

1. Replicate the problem.
2. Understand what's causing it.
3. Code and test the fix.
4. Release to our various customers.

As you point out, doing a software release that is properly tested can be time consuming.

At this point, we haven't gotten by step #1 yet. We can't replicate this in our labs and I'm still not sure what exactly is causing the problem (I'm not even sure its a software fault in the TDC775 yet--it could be, I just don't know). So, I think the quick answer to your question is I don't know but if a software fix is involved, not likely to be quick on this one until #1 and #2 are solved.

If you do decide to return it, I'd still appreciate it if you could disconnect/reconnect the HDMI cable and report the results.


No, I don't think you have a hardware fault in your TV. Hotplug of the HDMI cable will force a lot of software re-negotiation and I'm hopeful the results will tell me something.

Linden - tried the turning the TV off thing - makes no difference. Still no pic/sound.

However - I noticed something interesting. If I go to VoD while on a channel that does not display the "lock" symbol on the Pace box display indicating a special broadcast security flag - it works fine. If I am on a channel that causes the "lock" to display on the box display - that is when I lose the pic/sound.

EDIT: While I'm sure this isn't a complete test - I've tried this about a dozen more times and every time it's the channels that cause the "lock" symbol to display that cause the VoD dropout.

I'm not sure if that helps or not but it seemed like that was the common outcome every time. I'll keep trying it a few more times just to make absolutely sure but right now it seems as if being on a "locked" broadcast channel before selecting VoD is when the VoD drops out.

Ok tried that too - I got the "lost hdcp connection with your tv" dialog box and after about 10 seconds - the show popped on and is running fine.
To get the VoD to NOT work I did tune to a "lock" channel and it did go black as I figured it would - but unplugging the HDMI from the TV did cause the show to come back - still running - as if it never had stopped (which as I think we both agree - it never did stop - just lost the pic/sound to the tv).

After you disconnected and then reconnected the HDMI cable, has the video remained on with VOD, or did it turn off after ~30 seconds?

only tried one time but it remained on - I'll try some more later tonight - gotta head back to the office now.

My wife just called me - even on the non-locked channels - the VOD is still blacking out - no clue why it worked for me on about 15-20 tries though and as soon as I leave for work it happens for her on the non-lock channels.

I did try unplugging the HDMI cable one more time before I came back to work - and it did work - and the entire show played w/o blacking out.

Linden - in your opinion - will PQ be much different over Components vs. HDMI?

I haven't really tested it myself - but I'm considering just getting an optical cable, swapping to components and letting my Xbox 360 pass through the Pace box - and ditching HDMI altogether - even though it will require me to reprogram my Harmony 880 remote.

I really do like the PQ on the Pace box over the Moto (both on HDMI) - so if there's not a big hit PQ-wise with Components I may do it in order to keep the Pace and keep the peace in my house.

This is the source of many a religious debate on AVS and elsewhere. Technically, yes, HDMI should yield the best picture. With quality component cables though, I'm not sure you'll see any difference.

However, you may want to ask others besides myself and also experiment on your own as this is highly subjective.

Ok so I have read through every one of these (wheww that took awhile) I am a bresnan customer in Billings, MT that recently bought a Samsung 6187S (the best on the market some say ) I called Bresnan, because of the lag on the Moto box, and they said they have the new Pace and I did a search and here we are. I really think it is great that an individual can come out here and help us tech heads out. I was told though that I should consider waiting like 3 months for the box. What's everyone's thoughts on this?

Also this post is out of place but I have found more MT people on here than other posts. Anyone know how to get KHMT and KSVI on HD over the air?

Just my opinion as a user with both boxes for now - unless you have no use for VoD - I'd wait - if you don't care about the VoD flakyness - then I'd get the Pace. Imo the PQ is better than the Moto on SD - but for me - unless the VoD gets fixed fast - I'm going to have to return it and hope they fix VoD later and I can get another.

I'm not trying to minimize your problems (they need to be fixed), but the VOD issues you and wildrock have reported so far appear to be limited to certain HDMI displays under some specific conditions which we've not isolated.

We've tried a large number of HDMI displays that can't replicate the issue in our labs. Also, if uedmunds is using component (or RCA) outputs, then this particular bug won't affect him.

I'm not a HD display expert but if the VoD issue is on certain HDMI displays and 2 that are obviously affected are Samsung and Westinghouse I'd think that's a pretty big issue - those are both pretty sizeable companies with lots of displays out in end user homes. I'd guess if uedmunds has a Samsung 6187S then he's most likely looking to use hdmi (I would be) - or is this issue just affecting the older displays like mine (if you want to call 2 years old - "old")?

I've swapped back to the Moto box tonight and honestly the PQ difference to me is night and day - the Pace box is much much better (as is the user setup choices). My plan is to buy another optical cable tommorow - swap back to the Pace box with components/optical, run the Xbox 360 through the components as pass through and see how it goes.

I really do appreciate your efforts Linden and hope the VoD issue gets fixed - I just can't deal with the angry wife / frustrated 2 year old problem the VoD over hdmi issue causes. I'm much fussier about PQ than they are - whereas they're home all day and having VoD is more important to them.

One of the higher up's at Armstrong told me they've had several other complaints of the VoD issue with the Pace box (if you want his name and phone shoot me a PM). Out of curiousity - is this something you guys are contacted about or do the cable carriers not really bother with making you aware when they have problems/complaints?

Thank you again for your help.

Yes, after a reboot (forced or otherwise) the program guide shows "To be announced" for all the program slots and does not show any channel information. There is also just a single icon on the guide menu for HOME and no pvr or pay per view options. This normally occurs for an hour or so after a reboot, but I have waited overnight with no change. The OOB shows a data connection with ~1000kbs data rate, but nothing ever gets downloaded.

After the last set of crashes, the unit now has a picture but no sound on the HDMI output.

It is a rental box, so I am going to let the cable guy have a go at it tomorrow, but appreciate your feedback.

Just curious.

What parts of the configuration are stored in:
FLASH?
SDRAM?
HARD DRIVE?

and what are the options for "resetting" each of these subcomponents of the PVR? I know the cable company has attempted to "reset" the box remotely several times, but I am not sure what exactly they were leaving behind.

Not necessarily. We've got numerous Sony HDMI displays here and they work perfectly. Now we haven't tried your particular model yet, but this could be model specific, firmware within a given model or a specific manufacturing batch. Since I can't replicate it yet, we can't quantify the size of the issue at this point.



Its ancient in technology terms.

But seriously, it should be fine. Any HDMI display should work.




Sorry, can't get into MSO bug reporting processes. Suffice it say that if lots of customers are encountering a problem, we hear about it quick.

Sorry, but most of this information is proprietary and I can't post about it.

Note that a remote reset will not clear out the HDD, so if there's something funky going on with the hard drive, it won't solve the issue.

Did the HDD reformat help?

Hi Lindend,

Curious what would you see on the drive if you connected it to a PC? Would you see .ts files? I can't get service where I live but since I work for a cable company and I have this STB in my office and currently record shows over firewire. If I can playback recordings that are on the external drive on my PC that would save a lot of time.

If I stay on the VOD guide menu for several minutes, the screen goes blank (hdmi). If I switch to video or component, the screen is still blank. But if I hit the exit button, the VOD menu comes back on. But the music keeps playing.

If I am just in the regular Guide menu, after two minutes, the guide exits, and I go back to a normal screen (hdmi)
channel program


Usually it works fine.

I also was able to replicate, many times in a row, going to VOD in hdmi, then losing the video in 10 seconds (just about exactly the same every time). If I switch to video or component, the video comes back fine.

So this seems to be one VOD problem, and it seems to be linked to HDCP (in the past I did get the hdcp message a few times, but not recently). The Westinghouse 37w3 has also been linked to HDCP problems with the PS3, but no one wants to blame the westy outright, as the PS3 hdcp problems happen with other displays, too. Westy has said they have a firmware upgrade workaround for the PS3 HDCP problem, but you have to send the display in, as they have no program for field firmware updates.

The other issue, the one that is the most problematic, is the locking up when I go into VOD that demands a reboot to clear (and can result in lost HD dvr recordings). I've tried to replicate it and predict it, but it seems to be random. I tried going to VOD from a bunch of different conditions: from analog, SD, HD, protected HD, HD w/5.1, analog dvr, HD dvr, while recording. No lockups.

So, I'm not sure what else I can offer here. If there is anything else you want me to test out, I'd be glad to.

ps, does everyone else here get the idea that HDCP is a communist plot to prevent law-abiding viewers paying good money from actually watching content? I read a good piece at Ars about how the public is getting subjected to beta testing HDCP, and it isn't working all that well (in my mind, one bit of over zealous content protection isn't worth diddly to consumers). Just my chance to put in my 2 cents, here. If you agree linden, you don't have to say anything. But if you try to protect HDCP, you might have a minor revolt here...

If you have a Linux PC, you'd see a file system with a bunch of files on it.
Windows will just show an unrecognized file system on the partition.


The MPEG content is encrypted, so even on Linux, you can't play it back. Sorry.


Could I ask what cable company?

Hmmm...this almost seems like a problem with the screen saver. Could you temporarily disable the screen saver in the TV Guide settings and see if the problem still happens?


That's indeed the mystery. I'd have a better grasp on the problem if we always saw the HDCP error rather than just an occasional HDCP warning.






No comment.

However, if you search through E-Media Professional (there may even be an AVS thread too in the archives), you will see an article I wrote on the whole HDMI/HDCP thing a few years back.