TDC775 Tahoe Pace 700 Series - High Definition DVR - Page 2

Hi Linden. Most excellent to see you here! I'd say that gives you a big one up on the moto team, who never even acknowledged our existence on the 6412 thread.


The recording that it originally locked up on was an analog channel (USA, channel 53 on Bresnan). This show did playback, though after the reboot.

About 3 days 8 hours.


OK, I'm intrigued here. I'm not sure what you mean by page 25 of diagnostics. Just how do I get there?


Many thanks for the tip. Nice to know there's a more graceful way. Going to have to put in the UPS I've been planning on using, to avoid inadvertant power outages. Does this tactic preserve programming info and/or software load? Can an outage corrupt the box?


The recordings I lost were HD movies. Thanks again for coming on thread to learn about our experiences and help out!

Yes, that's how I was doing it.


No I didn't hookup any component cables. I will do so and get back to you. It might be a few days, as it is christmas time. Also, there are so many different configurations with a combination of the 4 resolution settings (480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i), any of which can be yes or no, combined with the auto pillar box (yes or no), that it can get a bit confusing trying all of the possibilties. Then add into the mix the fact that I need to use the fill or standard setting on the westy's remote to get the right aspect ratio, and then switch it every time I go from SD to HD. I thought about writing out a little chart to record my impressions, but that didn't strike me as something I really wanted to do.

Couple that with trying to compare the PQ of using the Tahoe's built in scalar and deinterlacer for SD vs. using the westy 37w3's. I did this on the 6412 by hooking up the composite signal, and used pip on the display, just changing the SD output to i or p and not having to add pillar boxing into the mix, as the 6412's default setting was just fine (I think it was set to pillar box). I found that the westy's vp did a better job on SD than did the 6412's (at least to my eyes). So I didn't really make it through the comparisons on the Tahoe like I did on the 6412, due to getting a bit confused as to where I was in trying all of the resolution/pillar box/fill configs. Hope I'm not making the waters more muddied here.

I think that a big issue will be on how the auto pillar boxing affects image stretching, and the issue of screen garbage on the top of the image. The screen garbage seemed to be omni-present and consistent in one mode. And then trying to tell you exactly which combination of settings I had is where I lose mental continuity.

For the auto pillar box option, having it off at 480i leaves the image stretched. Turning it on makes it squished. So the only way to compensate is for me to turn the "fill" option on for the westy with pillar box on. Which makes the image too big when I change the channel to HD, and having the image scaled again by the westy.

Another observation is that for the Tahoe, the PQ on the digital SD channels is considerable better than the analog channels. Much more obviousy so than on the 6412. The analog SD on the Tahoe is noticeably inferior to the 6412 in my configurations. It just seems that it doesn't deinterlace at all properly and is very grainy. But why the image doesn't look as good when the westy is fed a 480i signal is beyond me. I no longer have the 6412 to do side by sides, but maybe shaffer970, who still has both boxes can give us his impressions.

I'll try to come back with a bit more concise set of observations in a few days. I'll throw the component tests into the mix.

Want to give out a little secret? Like if 30 second skip is built into the software and activated? And maybe what the remote code is??? Bresnan CS didn't have a clue.

Lindend, really appreciate you being on the forum! Didn't mean to disparage the Tahoe by calling it a Moto clone. As you said, what we can see so far is mostly the TV Guide and yes it would look the same on both boxes. Yes, I was aware of the extra ports, particulary the eSATA port and do like the front screen information. The eSATA port is the primary reason that I moved to the Tahoe.

OK, so give up some information on how to access the advanced screens! If we are on the AVS Forums, by and large we like to tinker.

Again, really glad to have you on the forum and feel free to solicit information from us if it might in any way help in your development efforts.

While watching TV, hit Power, then the select button. This will put you into diagnostics (it also will go into diags on the 6412, but 6412 diagnostics will look significantly different).

On the diagnostics main menu, select content listing page, then the recording(s) in question that you are interested in. This particular page is read only.

FWIW, please be careful in diagnostics. You can make some permanent changes in there that can't be undone (i.e. like format the HDD).

After reading your posts on the 3412 boards about the inability to see storage space, take a look at the PVR status and HDD status pages and report back to us what you see.

I think there are other goodies in diags that might intrigue you also.


No. But it absolutely ensures that the filesystem is shut down properly. Although most people don't think about it in these terms, a DVR is like a mini-PC and you don't just turn off a PC, you shut it down. Failure to shut down a Windows (or Linux-based) PC will result in a filesystem recovery of some type (i.e. checkdsk on Windows) being run.

Same thing is true for DVRs, but you just never see the filesystem checker being run.


I've seen reports of analog recordings having playback issue, but not an HD movie being unplayable or becoming unplayable.

1. If/when this ever happens again for an HD recording, please post all the details from the content listing page.
2. Were these recordings previously playable and then became unplayable?

No offense taken. Just want to be sure that it was clear to all that this wasn't just a clone.



Please see my post to wildrock above to get into diags. There are multiple new screen in diagnostics. Same key sequence as the 6412.

In fact, the same hidden key sequences will work too in diags. However, some do different stuff!

Is this live or time shifted?

BTW, when running TV Guide, the only for sure way to know that you are live is to tune to a channel. Susequent actions (i.e. pause and then hitting the live key) will still be in time shift mode (but at the end of the time shift buffer).



Sorry to have bad news, but the 30 second skip is not functional in this release. There will be a future release that addresses this issue. Can't go into specifics on this bug, but if you look through various 3412/6412 forums, you'll see similar reports.

When it works, the remote code for 30 second skip is identical to the 3412/6412 implementation.

Lindend:

Are all of the codes for the 775 identical to the 6412? I'm looking for discerete power codes. If anyone has a Pronto CCF file they would like to share, that would be nice

Any remote that works with the 6412 should work with the TDC775, so yes, the codes should be functional on either box.

BTW, who is your Cable Operator?

Thanks Lindend. The cable operator is Bresnan (Western Montana).

Does this unit have discrete on/off IR codes? It seems that the Motorola doesn't

The reason I asked was I saw San Jose in your sig and I didn't think Bresnan served San Jose.


There is a power toggle code that will put the box into and take it out of standby (the same code works on the 6412).

Is the power toggle insufficient for your needs?

BTW, standby really doesn't turn the box off per se. It will stop any non-linear recordings and eventually spin the HDD down, but there are some core software components still up and functional.

Lindend, the toggle works, but what most of us would like is the ability to send a code that would turn off the box no matter whether it is on or off (ie if it is off it stays off). The ability to do this makes it easier when controlling things with a universal remote where you may be turning off and on several devices with one button push (using a Logitech Harmony remote).

Thanks!

Ok, I understand now. Harmony remotes are pretty cool.

I don't think this is currently possible, but I'll check for you when I get back in the office (I'm out all this week).

Are there any other feature requests/things you'd like to see changed and/or enhanced?

Discrete codes are a must for custom installers that are using Crestron/AMX automation systems. Without them, current or video sensing equipment costing more than the DVD player itself is required to determine the power status. So if PACE can implement discrete power codes, I'd be quite happy

Linden,

I have several questions about the TDC775 that you may be able to answer. I recently got one of these boxes from my cable company. They gave me the Operator's Manual and a chart that shows how to hook it up, but nothing else. Between these two documents, I still don't know if it will do what I want.

I have Windows MCE running on a computer that is hooked to my TV (Panasonic TH-50PK60U). The computer has 2 SD TV tuners that were hooked up to a pair of SD cable boxes. The TV was hooked up to the computer with a HDMI cable. This all worked well, I could watch one channel while watching another.

Since the THC775 was advertised to have 2 tuners, I though that I could replace one of the cable boxes with the THC775 and still be able to watch (and record) HD from the pace box. The MCE seems to be able to change channels on the Pace box with a IR blaster, but I don't see how to set it up to do SD and HD simultaneously.

1. How do you change from one of the tuners to the other?

2. Does the THC775 output the HD (or SD) over the 1394 cable?

3. Can I output SD from one output and HD from the other?

4. Can I change channels with the 1394 cable?

5. Is there any documentation that tells how all of this works?


Thanks in advance for any help that you can offer.

Map

Very nice config and diagnostics section. Much nicer than the 6412's. Will spend some time in there poking around.


I did not test the recordings prior to the problems to see if they would play. What I did notice immediately was that the % recording space used dropped significantly after the reboot. And after I deleted the movies, it didn't change any further.

It is live. I'll be more specific when I go back through them. And I'll add component cables in as a comparison.

The online manual can be found here:

Tahoe Manual



I think I understand what you asking, but let me restate my understanding to see if I'm correct. You want to be able to configure the TDC775 to output two different media types (HD and SD) at the same time? If so, this won't be possible. The two tuners can be used to record HD and SD simultaneously, but you can only output one at a given time. If I don't understand what you're asking, please re-ask.




The swap button is the primary means. However, if you press channel up/down while recording on a given tuner, you will get a dialog asking if you want to change tuners.


It will send out an MPEG stream over 1394. The stream can contain either SD or HD and you can watch the output on a 1394 TV or record on a 1394 DVHS.


Not sure if I understand what you're asking here. Could you restate?


Yes. As long as you have a 1394 TV that is capable of sending remote commands over the 1394 bus, you can change channels with a 1394 remote.

One new problem. When I go into video on demand, i lose the video signal over HDMI. I still have the video signal over composite. Sometimes I can get around the VOD menus for a while before the video drops. In all cases when I start a program, the video will drop and not resume until I leave VOD.

If you ever run into a scenario where a reboot causes you to regain significant disk space and a recording isn't playable, please post. Especially if the recording was digital (SD or HD).

BTW, how long have you had the box? I know what software release your currently running, but I want to find out if it was running an earlier build before this latest release.

Point of clarification. When you say no video, do you mean no video or no video and no graphics?


Please time it and see if its 5 seconds when it cuts out.

When you try your component connection, please try VOD also. I strongly suspect that you won't have this issue with YPbPr.

Couple of other things that will be helpful in tracking down this issue:

1. Does HDMI hotplug help?
2. If no, does the video cut out after 5 seconds or do you immediately have no video?
3. What is you exact monitor type?
4. Please post all details in the HDMI diagnostics page (its under the interfaces page on the main screen). Especially report the HDCP fields.

lindend,

Thank you for your time here. This extra effort is the kind of thing that we love around here.

My cable provider is testing your boxes, and I have been offered to be a tester, I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind.

1. How far away is the TV guide software update, that turns the 30 second skip back on? (I have a 6412 now running the older TV guide software, before they disabled it, and would be giving the skip up, if I switched to your box.)

2. Is the HD Picture in Picture feature functional with the TV guide software?

Thanks again.

Chris

Hi Chris,


Thanks for your kind comments.


If you don't mind, could you tell me what MSO you might be testing for?



Sorry, I can't comment on this in a public forum (and I can't comment via PM either just in case people try that route ). I would suggest that you contact the MSO for future release timing.

In general, I can only comment on publicly released software and/or hardware.


Not at the current time.

A couple of questions:

1. When the unit is recording and I want to shut it off, it will ask if you want to stop the recording in order to power off the unit. Is it possible to have a preference to power off after the recording has been completed?

2. If you select a program to record in the future, I assume the unit will power on, record the program, and power off when finished (haven't tried it yet...though I'd ask ).

What DVHS models have been tested with this unit?

Sorry, but this feature is not available with TV Guide.

We have some enhancements in this area though:

1. Background downloads. If your Cable company broadcasts a new image, the image can be downloaded in the background while you watch TV or record.

2. Reboot optimization. After a background donwload, if you're doing a recording, the box won't reboot until the recording(s) complete.


Yes, your assumption is correct. The machine will come out of standby, do the recording and then go back to standby.


What I can publicly say is we've tested it with several DVHS devices. Is there a particular model you want to know about?

Linden,

Here's my basic config information:

Running Tahoe to a Westinghouse 37w3. I have HDMI, component and composite all running out to westy.

I have the Tahoe set to output 1080i and 480i with auto pillarbox on, and set to a 16:9 aspect ratio.

Software: 9.23


I received box on December 21st.


No video or graphics after image is lost.


Not consistently. When I go to VOD, I briefly see (<1/2 second) the menu graphics, then the picture cuts out for a second (resolution switches from 1080i to 480i if coming from an HD channel), then it may come back on. It can either 1) not come back on; 2) come on for 5 seconds and turn off; 3) stay on and work fine. Not sure why the variability.


Correct. It displays the VOD properly.


Yes. Unplugging the HDMI and then plugging it back in while the picture is blanked can restore the picture.


variable, as noted above.


Here they are. I rebooted both the set top and the tv, went into VOD via HDMI. Then went to the diagnostics page:

Device Info
Device connected: 5c 85 3 37 1 0 0 0
Repeater No
HDCP Supported Yes
Pref resolution 1080i
Audio Capable Yes (PCM)

A/V Status Video Audio
Enabled Yes Yes
Mute No Yes
In Video Format 1080i
Out video format 1080i
Video Constrained None
Audio Sample Rate 48 KHz
Audio format AC3
HDP status Disabled

Couple of other notes:

A couple of times when the VOD lost video on HDMI, when I switched to composite, there was a message from the Tahoe stating that it had lost HDCP, with an OK button to hit.

And when the VOD does work on all three inputs (HDMI, composite, component) I am seeing a different aspect for each. The HDMI is squished, the component is correct, the composite is stretched. This is with the Westinghouse's fill mode set to standard (no alteration of signal).

Hope this helps get it sorted out. Thanks again Linden for checking in on this!

Lindend,
Could you please explain how to enable the ethernet function? I am a bresnan customer and I have gotten into the diagnostic screen and it said Ethernet wasnt enabled

What exactly can you do with the ethernet function anyway?

Thanks

Thanks Lindend. For the DVHS models, have you tested the JVC 30000?

It would be nice if you could mount a NAS and save recordings via ethernet

It is not enabled in your build. Please note that many options in the interface page may be disabled for a variety of reasons (i.e. the software may not be functional in the release or that option may not be configured in your area).

So don't be overly concerned if you see a disabled interface in diags. It doesn't necessarily indicate a problem.


The TDC775 contains a DOCSIS CableModem and if its activated, then you would access it via the ethernet port.

I know that we've tested with JVC DVHS but I don't have access to specific model #'s right now. Do you have a particular concern?


Ok, I'll add that to the feature request list.

Buckeye Cablesystem in Toledo, OH.

I just got the box hooked up yesterday night, and so far the general impression is very good.

Still getting some of my configuration setup.

Thanks again for your help here, lindend, and I understand that you can't comment about software releases!

First difference I noticed is that the guide is stretched to fill the screen, any configuration to control this?