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thegeek's obligatory construction thread - Page 3

post #61 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeek View Post


Well, after reading about the sound dampening qualities, have you noticed a difference in the sound entering and leaving your cranium?
post #62 of 451
dude, you are a DIY'ers wet dream. I am giddy thinking of the learning you will be going through in the next few months. I am standing by for your first ER visit.....you never forget your first (mine was using the air nailer doing the crown molding and REACHING far over trying to get that last nail in without moving the ladder...well...apparently you arent supposed to use air nailers with 16ga brads at 90psi at a 45 degree sideways angle.....after shooting about 3999 nails...#4000 bounced of the crown molding and into my bicept, WHICH was about 2 inches from my eye b/c i was holding the gun over my head!!!! No saftey glasses....

O well....well worth the lesson of saftey glasses (imagin GG in your eye).

Anyway....this is one of the best build threads, your prose is excellent and you should devote 20 minutes a week to uploading pictures and typing stories, great stuff.
post #63 of 451
Thread Starter 
The GG made no measurable difference in isolation for sound entering my skull, which likely has an STC in the upper 60s anyway. Between the relative mass of my hair and flanking noise, it was relatively ineffective.

I did manage to get it out without resorting to a new hair style reminiscent of an 80's punk band. Remedy was achieved via direct application of Zep commercial citrus cleaner, followed up by some of MrsGeek's gooey hair conditioner. I had been using the Zep to get the GG of of various things during the project.

The hair conditioner happened to be already sitting in the shower, and I had already gone through all of the shampoos within an arm's length. This is a relatively high number of shampoos. If you're married, you know what I'm talking about. My hair product section of the shower encompasses a sprawling 6 square inches. MrsGeek's covers all remaining horizontal surfaces. From dwelling to dwelling, I've found this equation to remain constant regardless of available horizontal surface area.

The Zep did a decent job at taking out about 90% of the GG. It seems that the remaining GG saw what was happening and decided to hold on extra strong. That last big really didn't want to go. Meanwhile, the conditioner (it's called Mega Cholesterol, I'm not making this up) made some rather bold claims about leaving my hair smooth and silky. I took that be synonymous with "not stuck together and green". It actually delivered on getting out that last 10% of GG. Either that, or the citrus took out all of the GG and in the process nearly destroyed my hair, which the conditioner then revived. Given my relative skill level, I'll likely have another chance to experiment at this removal process.

Air tools are coming up shortly, as soon as the last bit of drywall is done. I forget off-hand what they'll be used for (framing or something, whatever), but dammit air tools will be used! I'm going to try to keep all my fingers from getting mangled. I like my fingers. Typing would be negatively impacted if there were nails sticking out of them. Also, opening up a Snickers bar would be gravely hampered if all I've got to work with are mangled nubs. I especially don't want to have to eat a Snickers bar that's covered with nub-goo. Ewww...

As for safety equipment, I've been using goggles, hearing protection, a breathing mask, and occasionally leather work gloves when using power cutting equipment such as a jigsaw or circular saw. I've also mostly stopped doing this while barefoot. If nothing else, having your feet stick to stuff gets old pretty quickly and having the stickiness stay on the expendable footwear is preferred. I apparently need a diving bell for when working with GG.
post #64 of 451
if you continue to sound proof yourself, you could always consider building your own haz-mat suit to use during GG installation phases. I had a friend who read online (this is a true story BTW) that mangos stay fresh longer in your oven because its mostly airtight (lol).....so he put them there.

About a month later he started having a minor house/fruitfly problem, not a big deal.

Another month goes buy and his fly probelm gets worse and there is an odd "odor" when walking through his kitchen. he meticulously cleans every surface and scrubs the floor, thinking some "juice" from meat or something else leaked and went unnoticed.

Another month (serious) goes by and he "remembers"

He opened the door and there were lots of flys, lots of larvae (i dont think they were maggots, just fruit fly larvae), and lots of black stuff that used to be mangos. Apparently the smell was equisite, his body literally wretched, i think he threw up 5 or 6 times over 30 minutes.

So, whats a man to do? Well, using a few trash bags and some duct tape, a ski mask and a 3m N95 mask (which even though is disposable will filter out most large partical odors, OSHA approved), and swimming goggles.

Every square cm of his body was covered, and he sucessfully completed the extraction and cleanup (which he then walked through his condo, past security, out onto the street and around the back to dispose of in the dumpster)...lol

Imagine a tall lanky Indian guy dressind in duct-taped trashbags, a ski mask, goggles, respirator walking around holding another bag of "something."

Great stuff.....didnt even turn a head in new orleans.


SO, you might consider the body condom concept next time using GG
post #65 of 451
Folks here at work are now wondering why I'm laughing uncontrollably and wiping my eyes!.

Thanks for the laughter! I needed it!

Chuck
post #66 of 451
Wow. That's quite possibly the strangest story I've ever heard.
post #67 of 451
Dude, your friend needed that dose of reality! Too funny, also, funny is the fact that he went for about 3 months without using his oven!
post #68 of 451
Thread Starter 
At that point, I'd be darned tempted to use the "clean" feature of the oven, assuming it was a self-cleaning model. Not sure if that would make things better or worse, but it'd sure get rid of some fruit flies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SVonhof View Post

Dude, your friend needed that dose of reality! Too funny, also, funny is the fact that he went for about 3 months without using his oven!

I had been living in my first apartment for about 8 or 9 months. I was watching TV when MrsGeek (at the time, my girlfriend) came out of the kitchen and asked me if I was aware that the dishwasher was broken. I had to walk into the kitchen and stare at the dishwasher sitting where she was pointing. Apparently it had been there all that time and I had never even noticed it.

My excuse is that at the time I owned only one plate which I would use and then wash by hand. I mean, who could possibly need more than one plate?
post #69 of 451
Yeah, it was a long time ago during med school and he was working a lot and went for weeks without even eating a meal at home, much less cooking.....The smell apparently wasnt really noticable with the oven closed, just sort of apparent.....very subtle....


This is an absolutely true story too.....it was before all the 9/11 /anthrax ****, so i can imagine it might not be the best thing in the world to try today....back then it was great!

If you knew the guy, he is lanky, clumsy, and scatter-brained....that only made it all better watching him perform the extraction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SVonhof View Post

Dude, your friend needed that dose of reality! Too funny, also, funny is the fact that he went for about 3 months without using his oven!
post #70 of 451
Wow, I think I would've just replaced the oven...
post #71 of 451
what the smack.....pics and updates man...
post #72 of 451
Thread Starter 
Not much has happened in a bit. We're almost done with the drywall for the parts that already exist. Getting ready for building the wall means answering a fair number of unanswered questions. For example, the wall is going to have a hushbox built into the backside of it. This means putting it at the hight of the screen edge. Well, how is the screen going to be? That depends on the risers.....

SketchUp has been amazingly helpful for visualizing all my design problems before they're major headaches. Everything up to this point has been grunt work and designing things in detail first didn't really matter much as far as adding in all that drywall.

I'm pretty close to done with the final design, though the risers keep changing around. Plus, I'm having a real headache trying to figure out what to do with my back two audio channel speakers. The rear corners are taken up by a door on one side and the equipment closet on the other. The plan had been to build a tray ceiling and stuff 'em up there, but the room up there that I imagined having doesn't seem to exist.
post #73 of 451
Thread Starter 
Link to my SketchUp rendering thingy.


Ok, maybe this is a better description of the thing. I currently don't have the seats or sconces rendered in there. I also have the speakers rendered as large blocks whereas they look quite different in real life. Just consider them to be placeholders.

They look kinda like this:




I've simplified the risers a fair bit, but I've definitely kept the tray ceiling. The hushbox has three holes in it. Two are for ventilation, and the other one is for the light to come out. A hole for light to come out of, pretty innovative if you ask me. I'm going to patent it when I get around to it.




Anywho, here's some pictures of the rendering in case you don't have Sketchup installed (http://sketchup.google.com).


Shot from the money seat:



From the back, showing the stairs:



From the top right side, showing the tray ceiling. I have no idea how to make a curved tray ceiling.



Another random picture:





Oh well, I guess this means I have to get back to that friggin' drywall....
post #74 of 451
Geek, awesome renderings. I can't wait to see some more progress pics. Especially of curved tray ceiling ;-) I love those speakers, I have listend to the them a couple times and they are amazing both in sound and in design. Those are gonna be your mains?

I had posted a question in another thread for you but I doubt you saw it. So I will ask here. "Could you estimate on a scale of 1 (lowest) to 5 (highest) how much sound benefit the blown insulation actually provided? I really am on the fence now that I saw how you did yours. I am also concerned with the fact that I think I have 4-6 canned lights directly under the HT floor. I don't really want to replace them all (or any of them for that matter) since that would probably require pulling up more flooring. Any suggestions?"
post #75 of 451
Thread Starter 
The Scripts were previously the mains, but now they're finally getting demoted to rear surrounds.

This is what's going in the front:


The picture is an Ascent, but we've got the i version, which is subtly different. You've got the basic idea though.


As for the floor insulation... It's not the sort of thing you can do an A-B comparison on. At minimum, your standard 2x4 single stud, single layer of drywall on either side wall, basic everyone's got one type wall has an STC rating of 30. If you put insulation in it, it goes up to 33. 3 dB of attenuation means basically halving the amount of sound going through. I haven't seen any stats for a cavity with a 16" span, but if you can do it then go for it. If you're not going to have any kind of help who doesn't mind getting really really dirty then I'd say skip it.

Keep in mind though, it's also not something you can go back and do after the fact. For me, knowing that I had skimped on something that I would later be kicking myself over was the thing that finally made me go for it.

As for the can lights issue, if you swap out the floodlights for compact fluorescent lights, then heat buildup shouldn't be an issue. The Commercial Electric brand lights they sell over at Home Depot are really good (at least their 60 watt bulbs are). They come on instantly. From the second juice hits 'em, they're probably at 90-95% of their max brightness.

More importantly for this discussion, they also don't give off anywhere near as much heat as an incandescent. They get warm, and that's about it.
post #76 of 451
Very nice. I am gonna have to make due with my Polks for the time being.

As for the insulation. The fact that I know I can't go back and do it is exactly whats making it such a hard decision. I had thought of changing the lights out like you suggested but wasn't sure if that would suffice. I guess so. That would eliminated the work and mess of rewiring those canned lights and bring it back to just blowing the insulation in there. Makes it much more managable from my standpoint. It looks like I might be blowing some insulation after all.

Thanks for the info.
post #77 of 451
Thread Starter 
Please do not knock Polks. The last set of Polks that I heard really impressed me for the price point they were at.


Good luck pulling up the floor. You'll quickly find out the quality of your circular saw with that job. I started using my battery powered Ryobi One saw, and didn't get that far. I then borrowed my friend's worm gear drive saw which was disgusting overkill. I loved it.

You'll want to angle the blade to the side by about 60 degrees or so. This makes it so that when you put the board back, you can have them overlap a bit. It also makes it much easier to pry the boards up and then slip them back in.

Additionally, it makes it so that the part that comes up can then rest on the other side. That being said, if you can make the cut within a foot of a joist then you'll have less flexing when you're done.

Oh yeah, caulk the joint when you put it all back. And be sure to include a photo of yourself when you're done. I looked like this:

post #78 of 451
Mr. Geek, have you been following SandmanX's thread? He had ML's in his theater and wasn't getting anything near what he wanted for sound, so he pulled them out and got the Klipsh Ultra 2 system. I would hate for you to have to pull yours out too, but maybe Ruben just has different tastes when it comes to sound, I don't know.
post #79 of 451
Thread Starter 
The man had Odysseys in there, which is a notch higher than the Ascent. Pretty sure it's the same panel, but with a 8" and a 10", instead of just an 8" on the bottom. He also had the higher end Theater center channel as opposed to the Cinema, and 4 Scripts in the back as opposed to 2. Basically, he had what I wished I have.

I'm going to have to read through his thread and see why he yanked 'em. If he had Martin Logan and then swapped for Klipsch then we're most definitely within the same ballpark as far as taste in speakers.

He might have just had them set up incorrectly. Planar speakers need to breathe a lot because they put exactly as much sound out the back as they do the front. Heck, the Aeon i (model down from the Ascent) even has a tweeter firing up and to the rear. Magnepans (another brand of planar) for instance are totally dead if you leave them up against a wall. Pull them about 3 feet away and they magically have some bass to 'em.

Reuben's scripts were stuffed into boxes. His Theater was pushed right up against some acoustic treatment and the Oddysseys look like they got similar treatment. I wouldn't be surprised if they sounded bad.

The plan is for the Scripts to have a fair bit of open air, and I'm not planning on putting any acoustic treatment on the screen wall.

A fairly common setup for the two channel guys who run planars is to have the speakers about 4 or 5 feet away from a wall with a big piece of glass up against the wall to reflect as much sound back as possible. Reuben went kinda the other way on that one.



I mean... uhh uhh they must be defective. I'll take them off his hands for parts. :-)
post #80 of 451
Subscribed. This is awesome.


One question - the insulation you added. Was it for thermal or sound?
If sound, fiberglass or old newspaper doesn't do too much. Linacoustic is good for sound. Four layers of drywall? Holy cow! The triple burger at Wendy's is probably unsatisfying for you. I take it the 4 layers are for soundproofing?

Posts and pics, please.

Marshall
post #81 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeek View Post

...Planar speakers need to breathe a lot because they put exactly as much sound out the back as they do the front. Heck, the Aeon i (model down from the Ascent) even has a tweeter firing up and to the rear. Magnepans (another brand of planar) for instance are totally dead if you leave them up against a wall. Pull them about 3 feet away and they magically have some bass to 'em.

Reuben's scripts were stuffed into boxes. His Theater was pushed right up against some acoustic treatment and the Oddysseys look like they got similar treatment. I wouldn't be surprised if they sounded bad.

I think that was the problem, but with his room and the way he wanted it to look, the planars were probably not a real good idea. Obviously, you have a handle on things and know what to expect and what to do in order to use them to their potential (I am sure Ruben did too, but he had to try, right?).
post #82 of 451
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall F View Post

One question - the insulation you added. Was it for thermal or sound?
If sound, fiberglass or old newspaper doesn't do too much. Linacoustic is good for sound. Four layers of drywall? Holy cow! The triple burger at Wendy's is probably unsatisfying for you. I take it the 4 layers are for soundproofing?


The insulation is for sound. Empty cavities tend to resonate, and insulation dampens that. Think about my head. If you walk up to it and bonk it, it will make a hollow sound at a particular frequency. If you shove my head up against a speaker, it will block some sound, however at or near that specific frequency will straight go through. This is because sounds at those frequencies will resonate the sound inside my head and act upon the opposite side of my head and transfer sound out. There's also a lot of sound going in one ear and out the other.

Now, if my head were filled with something useful, then it wouldn't make that hollow sound, and sounds would have a tough time going through it. The good news is that I have a great place to stuff my car keys, though simply putting my car keys in my empty head doesn't do anything for sound isolation.


Linacoustic is supposed to be pretty good stuff for deadening sound too, but for in cavities, just putting in enough to dampen the resonance is what you're looking for.

Most of the room is already existing, and already had an existing layer. I added two on top of that with Green Glue in between. It makes a pretty good difference when I thump my hand (or head) against the wall. The only wall that will have 4 layers will be the one that doesn't yet exist. 3 on the inside, and one on the outside. The one on the outside is so that it will be easier to line it up and match the existing wall below it.


Wendy's Triple burgers disgust me. Try picking one up and holding it an an angle. Observe exactly what and how much drips off. People toss around the term "dripping with fat" like it hardly means anything, or as an exaggeration. Those things literally drip fat.

I'm frightened by what the Burger King Quadruple Stacker with bacon and cheese must be like. Hopefully they wise up and offer it with an optional low carb bun. I got an ad in the mail with a buy one get one free offer. Think about that one.
post #83 of 451
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVonhof View Post

I think that was the problem, but with his room and the way he wanted it to look, the planars were probably not a real good idea. Obviously, you have a handle on things and know what to expect and what to do in order to use them to their potential (I am sure Ruben did too, but he had to try, right?).

I think you're dead on there. If he planned a little more he could have gone with a different column design, though frankly the things really need to be further away from the wall than the brackets dictate. Also, he went with an acoustically transparent screen, so he probably needed the speakers up against the wall as much as possible. I don't have that restriction. I would have at least tried yanking the acoustic treatment from the screen wall.

I don't have enough room for columns or anything cool like that. My theater room is pretty small versus what else is posted here, and 6 seats are barely fitting in there. If I had the room then my place would have unreasonable amounts of columns and arches and Han Solos encased in carbonite, or whatever else I could come up with. However it's not, and an exceedingly difficult to make curved tray ceiling is gonna be the best I can muster with this one. Maybe some kind of arch facade. Who knows.

Oh God, I just said arch facade. I'm starting to cringe at the idea of making that even though it would pretty cool looking.
post #84 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeek View Post

The insulation is for sound. Empty cavities tend to resonate, and insulation dampens that. Think about my head. If you walk up to it and bonk it, it will make a hollow sound at a particular frequency. If you shove my head up against a speaker, it will block some sound, however at or near that specific frequency will straight go through. This is because sounds at those frequencies will resonate the sound inside my head and act upon the opposite side of my head and transfer sound out. There's also a lot of sound going in one ear and out the other.

Now, if my head were filled with something useful, then it wouldn't make that hollow sound, and sounds would have a tough time going through it. The good news is that I have a great place to stuff my car keys, though simply putting my car keys in my empty head doesn't do anything for sound isolation.

Sr. Geeko,

Well, if your head were filled with feathers, rather than liquid & goo, less sound dampening would occur. For sound isolation some sort of mass is really needed - like 3-4 layers of drywall just as you're doing. I was just curious - just asking.

I wish my wife had a convenient place like the cranium to store her keys - a daily version of hide and seek for her keys gets old. Also, I've never had the triple burger, but the real enemy is the white bread bun, not the meat... Also, George Formean (sr.) has a solution to the drippings.

Enjoying your progress, thanks for the updates.
post #85 of 451
Oh, also - I was talking about this on another thread....

For complete geekishness, I would opt for a door with an inflatable seal. This, of course would need an enclosed room. The door closes, small seal around the edges inflates for maximum sealing effect. I'd love to have one for no other reason than the wooossh effect upon sealing the theater door. Well, and the sound dampening. Naaah, I'd like the woosh.
post #86 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall F View Post

I wish my wife had a convenient place like the cranium to store her keys - a daily version of hide and seek for her keys gets old.

Don't they make something that you can hit a buttion and your keychain will emit a signal so you can find them? Some sort of remote operated thing (of course). I want to say I have seen it in SkyMall magazine on a plane. Check Brookstone and such. Would save lots of time!
post #87 of 451
Steve, you're single aren't you? The remote would be long gone... Unless it's telepathic - now that would be sweet!
post #88 of 451
Steve? My name is Scott. There is a story behind that, but I won't get into it. My name really is Scott.

I am not single, but my wife has a habit of putting her stuff in the same place every day. I even have to do it, since she bought me a little basket for all my stuff to go it. It is neater than I used to do, just throwing stuff on the counter. With the keys, palm pilot, sunglasses and wallet, a basket is better.

BTW, mount the trigger device on the wall or inside of a cabinet, so it doens't change location.
post #89 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall F View Post

For complete geekishness, I would opt for a door with an inflatable seal. This, of course would need an enclosed room. The door closes, small seal around the edges inflates for maximum sealing effect.

There is a company that makes seals like this for commercial use, not for doors, but for whatever you decide to use them on. I have more info at work if you guys need it (I can get it on Monday).
post #90 of 451
Most entertaining thread I've read in a long time. Keep the pix and stories coming.....
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