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Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- - Page 8

post #211 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

So, aside from whatever improvements Audyssey might yield in some rooms, sounds like DL3 is a good option for just about everything?

Technical issues aside, I guess so. While I had the AVR, I ended up using DLink all the time.

Kal

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #212 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Technical issues aside, I guess so. While I had the AVR, I ended up using DLink all the time.

Kal

And conversely, if lip-synch and Audyssey (type) features of the Rcvr are not of importance, I can't see a reason not to utilize the better DAC's in the player. As said earlier, the 3930 has bass management, so no issues there.

shane
post #213 of 4938
I guess I don't hear a difference between the receiver's DACs and the players DACs when listening to lower fidelity lossy audio like Dolby Digital, DTS, etc. In fact, for reasons already pointed out, I prefer the receiver for such sources because I actually enjoy some of the receiver's DSP settings for certain movies (Adventure on action movies, Spectacle on epics like Gladiator, etc.). And of course the parametric equalization is helpful.

I think I can only start to hear the difference when the audio isn't the potential quality bottleneck such as Redbook CD, SACD, DVD-A. That's why I use the receiver via digital coax for movies and my 2910 DACs for music via analog cables. It's all programmed into my remote so there are no extra steps involved, just the push of a button.
post #214 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post

And conversely, if lip-synch and Audyssey (type) features of the Rcvr are not of importance, I can't see a reason not to utilize the better DAC's in the player. As said earlier, the 3930 has bass management, so no issues there.

shane

Now I'm confused again. When using DLink, are the player's DACs or the receiver's DACs employed? And, whatever the answer is, does that go for all media formats?
post #215 of 4938
DLink, like i.Link, sends a digital bit stream to the receiver. Minimally, DACs need to be used in the receiver, if not decoding the format first (DD, DTS, any non PCM format) and then doing BM, time alignment, etc. D/A is last.

larry
post #216 of 4938
Huh?
post #217 of 4938
LOL! With Dlink the recievers DACs are used. Deciphering the rest of my post is good homework. With some formats, processing happens in the receiver before D/A (same as if done in the player).

larry
post #218 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

Huh?


Yup... what the Scoop said.
The advantage of the D-Link (& i-Link) over Coax or Toslink (Fiber) is that it will not only transfer DD & DTS signals digitally, but also send SACD - DVD-A digital signals to the rcvr. Then the rcvr can use it's DAC's to convert.

shane

Edit: Chances are that most people will NEVER be able to detect the differences in DAC's... assuming they are relatively good. Other factors (like speakers, room acoustics, etc.) are also important in assessing SQ and often have more impact on the sound than the DAC's. Between your reciever's DAC's and the 3930's DAC's... unless you have a real keen ear, listen to just the right music, have great speakers, etc... chances are you're much better off with the D-Link connection as it adds all the convenience of the receiver with a barely detectable loss in SQ.
post #219 of 4938
OK, but now we're back to a much earlier part of the discussion in this thread, i.e., whether the '3930's DACs will be so superior to that of most Denon AVRs on the market now -- at least up to and including the 4306 -- that one would get better overall sound quality by letting it (the 3930) to the processing, rather than the receiver. And, as I understand it, the only way you accomplish that is by using analog connections, and not DLink, or anything else. Or, do I still not get it?
post #220 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

And, as I understand it, the only way you accomplish that is by using analog connections, and not DLink, or anything else. Or, do I still not get it?

Correct. Hence the name DAC, digital to analog converter.
Take a look at the IC Database at http://www.alexhardware.com/. You will see that most of the higher end Denon receivers use the Burr-Brown PCM-1791 DACs, while the 3910 and probably future 3930 use the superior DSD-1796 DACs.
post #221 of 4938
Just for clarification, I didn't mean that Dlink/i.link will have video synch. problem. It sacrifices the audio clock quality to avoid the video synch. problem, and that's why Denon and I(not that I have any authority) recommend S/PDIF path for DVD-V.
post #222 of 4938
Quote:


Edit: Chances are that most people will NEVER be able to detect the differences in DAC's... assuming they are relatively good. Other factors (like speakers, room acoustics, etc.) are also important in assessing SQ and often have more impact on the sound than the DAC's. Between your reciever's DAC's and the 3930's DAC's... unless you have a real keen ear, listen to just the right music, have great speakers, etc... chances are you're much better off with the D-Link connection as it adds all the convenience of the receiver with a barely detectable loss in SQ.

Finally somebody talking some sense. Too many people get hung up on part numbers and specs and not the implementation for which you can't tell how it will sound until you listen to it.

larry
post #223 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Finally somebody talking some sense.

Finally somebody reading what I wrote!
Thanks Scoop.

shane
post #224 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post

Finally somebody reading what I wrote!
Thanks Scoop.

shane

LOL! Don't mention it...

larry
post #225 of 4938
A Google search of the 2930 has at least one link mentioning a price of $1100 for it; can anyone confirm or officially deny such a ridiculous price increase?
post #226 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Finally somebody talking some sense. Too many people get hung up on part numbers and specs and not the implementation for which you can't tell how it will sound until you listen to it.

larry

I also agree entirely. I would be more concerned with the entire circuit/chain from bitstream to op-amp then just distilling performance down to a single component along the way like "DACs".

There was a similar discussion in the processor forum around a statement that a 3910 would sound better than an RDC 7.1 or D2 becuase it had better BB DACs in it.
post #227 of 4938
I talked to a salesman in Tweeter today and he has the 2930 listed for a sales price of $849-899 (I can't remember which) with a release date in the first week of July.
post #228 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDMedic View Post

I talked to a salesman in Tweeter today and he has the 2930 listed for a sales price of $849-899 (I can't remember which) with a release date in the first week of July.

Is this before or after any potential discounts?
post #229 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDMedic View Post

I talked to a salesman in Tweeter today and he has the 2930 listed for a sales price of $849-899 (I can't remember which) with a release date in the first week of July.

Thanks for the info.

I could live with that, I guess, but not a $400 increase!
post #230 of 4938
A HK website just posted something interesting abt the 2930. If its source is correct, the HDMI output not only supports 480i/576i, it also supports 1024x768, 1280x768, 1280x1024

http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/20..._DVD/index.htm
post #231 of 4938
Thread Starter 
Very interesting about about time ref. 480i if true for both the 2930 and 3930. Then when/if I get the Marantz VP-11S1 I can either chose the Denon to output 480i and let the Marantz's Gennum processing do the scaling or let the Denon output 1080P with the HQV to see which is better out of the 2.
post #232 of 4938
Thread Starter 
Okay just downloaded the manual and here is what is says (it has gone through bablefish)-

Quote:


480/576i, 480/576P (standard), 720P, 1080i, 1080P: The video signal of the HDMI connection is converted for the expenditure into the selected resolution. The video output which can be sent with the selection of "480/576i" takes place with 480i with NTSC and with 576i with PAL. The video output which can be sent with the selection of "480/576P" takes place with 480P with NTSC and with 576P with PAL.

Quote:


Do you press HDMI FORMAT select you the mode? Do you select the video dissolution of the exit which can be spent over the HDMI connection? Now the mode on the announcement is faded in. VGA (standard): The signal is converted into a dissolution of 640 x 480 (60 cycles per second). XGA: The signal is converted into a dissolution of 1024 x 768 (60 cycles per second). WXGA: The signal is converted into a dissolution of 1280 x 768 (60 cycles per second). SXGA: The signal is converted into a dissolution of 1280 x 1024 (60 cycles per second).

Also looks like the Denon menu structure has changed slightly.
post #233 of 4938
Where did you see the new menu?
post #234 of 4938
Thread Starter 
In the manual I downloaded

Here you go everyone, its in German but you get the gist- Denon DVD-2930 Manual
post #235 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDMedic View Post

I talked to a salesman in Tweeter today and he has the 2930 listed for a sales price of $849-899 (I can't remember which) with a release date in the first week of July.

Ok, great... this is getting very exciting.

shane
post #236 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by jheoaustin View Post

Just for clarification, I didn't mean that Dlink/i.link will have video synch. problem. It sacrifices the audio clock quality to avoid the video synch. problem, and that's why Denon and I(not that I have any authority) recommend S/PDIF path for DVD-V.

Can you provide a quote from Denon please?
post #237 of 4938
So, it appears the 2930 and 3930 will have higher pricing than the current "XX10" models.
post #238 of 4938
Based on the post that opened this thread it appears the 3930 will be the same price but the 2930 will be $110 more than its' predecessor.
I'm using the curent MSRP's on the Denon site for comparison.
post #239 of 4938
Anyone know the specs and price of the 1930?
post #240 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post


Edit: Chances are that most people will NEVER be able to detect the differences in DAC's... assuming they are relatively good. Other factors (like speakers, room acoustics, etc.) are also important in assessing SQ and often have more impact on the sound than the DAC's. Between your receiver's DAC's and the 3930's DAC's... unless you have a real keen ear, listen to just the right music, have great speakers, etc... chances are you're much better off with the D-Link connection as it adds all the convenience of the receiver with a barely detectable loss in SQ.

I agree a 100% with what shane55 is saying but most people who buy $1500 DVD players probably have some nice setups for the rest of their system.

To have any chance to tell the difference between DACs, you really have to sit down and do some critical listening to hear for yourself if the player's DACs are that much better then the Receiver's. With out doing critical listening, it may be hard to tell the difference between MP3, CD red-book or High-Res music formats much less then which DACs you are using.

If you think the player's DACs are better then you have to live with using analog connections and the inconvenience that may bring to using your system. I personally use the stereo analog outs of my 3910 for any 2 channel music and use the D-link for any M/C music. I had two macros in my remote to do the necessary changes to both the 3910 and the 3805 receiver when I switch between modes. If I was setting this up for any less tech savvy people, I would use the D-Link all the way. It truly makes dealing with any music format a non issue.
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