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Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- - Page 109

post #3241 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdsnumbers View Post

I just got my Denon 3930. I will be using the 2 channel audio outputs for audio but am wondering if I should use an HDMI connection for video or if a component video connection would give a 1080p picture

Definitely use the 2ch OUT's for for audio (CD's, etc.,...) it's very nice sounding.

Moreover, I would take advantage of HDMI of you have an HDMI TV, this will provide you more full capability of the DVD-3930CI's up-scaling functions, as well as HDMI audio for DVD-Movies (DolbyDigital, DTS).

I've used both, component-video w/digital-coax audio, and HDMI (video and audio). Both work nice, component-video provides nice 480p picture and nice digital audio from coax connection. However HDMI is really nice, I can select from the whole range of video scaling resolutions (exceptionally nice picture), combined with excellent digital audio performance.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #3242 of 4938
I am new to the 3930, but this last weekend I had a friend over who brought 4 SACDs. We could only get 2 channel stereo from them. We tried all settings, the player showed 5.1 channels, and my Yamaha rx-v1800 receiver showed it was getting signal for 5.1 channels, but we only heard left and right stereo. He took the discs back with him (he is 3 hours away) but we can't be 100% sure they were 5.1 discs. There were Sony samplers and a few other samplers there and on the packaging they said multi-channel SACD samplers, anyone have the problem...was it a wrong setting somewhere? It was hooked from the Denon analogs into the Yamaha external inputs. Unfortunately he took the discs back but I will see him Wednesday and borrow them again and try this once more. I don't own any SACDs or DVD-A yet.
post #3243 of 4938
I am new to the 3930, but this last weekend I had a friend over who brought 4 SACDs. We could only get 2 channel stereo from them. We tried all settings, the player showed 5.1 channels, and my Yamaha rx-v1800 receiver showed it was getting signal for 5.1 channels, but we only heard left and right stereo. He took the discs back with him (he is 3 hours away) but we can't be 100% sure they were 5.1 discs. There were Sony samplers and a few other samplers there and on the packaging they said multi-channel SACD samplers, anyone have the problem...was it a wrong setting somewhere? It was hooked from the Denon analogs into the Yamaha external inputs. Unfortunately he took the discs back but I will see him Wednesday and borrow them again and try this once more. I don't own any SACDs or DVD-A yet.

Also, to listen to a CD, is there any difference between HDMI, optical or analogs?
post #3244 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

...was it a wrong setting somewhere? It was hooked from the Denon analogs into the Yamaha external inputs

from what I can tell here there is a good chance something was'nt set correctly. Especially since you say, both, the player and the Yamaha receiver were indicating 5.1 channels. Sounds like the receiver was only "switched" to play 2-channel somehow. You have to make sure to select "MULTI CH INPUT" on the Yamaha remote to enable the external MULTI CH INP connections on the receiver rear panel. You should purchase at least one multi-channel ("hybrid") SACD title to use as a source test disc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

...
Also, to listen to a CD, is there any difference between HDMI, optical or analogs?

there are some differences, however these differences may be difficult to discern. I would use the 2ch analog OUT's for CD's. Use HDMI video and audio (Dolbydigital and DTS) when watching DVD-Movies, it's very nice.

Have fun!
post #3245 of 4938
[quote=WestCoastD;13045681]yeah, don't get me wrong, I love my DVD-3930CI. There are no other players (of this kind) that can touch it. I like using the Oppo so as not to over-use the Denon. When I have those few moments during the week (late friday or saturday nights) to watch a DVD-Movie I use the Denon.

[quote]


I was thinking about purchasing a 3930 and then thought......Why? I blew a bundle on a Denon dvd5000 and although it sounded good, it lasted a few years & the laser assembly went south. A Denon repair facility replaced it & it went out again in a year. So, I went to a 3910 and although it sounded and looked good, it lasted two years & now it sits in a corner of my room unhooked. I planed to send it in to have the laser replaced, but bought an OPPO after recommendations from this sites members. WOW, why repair the Denon when the OPPO brand new is the same amount & I swear it looks as good on SD DVD's. I guess i am tired of the repairs on an expensive component. I am not downing the Denon, and if you have one & like it, then I am glad for you. I am just leary of the reliable of a product you pay over a grand for. Maybe i just got one of those Friday work day builds. Twice!
I do listen to allot of music, but I use the dacs in the Bryston SP2 for that.
post #3246 of 4938
Hello, looking to purchase 3930 in Southern Cal area. I've seen prices vary quite a bit ...does anyone have any recommendations...thanks bob
post #3247 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by redshift1 View Post

Hello, looking to purchase 3930 in Southern Cal area. I've seen prices vary quite a bit ...does anyone have any recommendations...

I would try Sound Factor, in Pasadena. Last time I was there they were selling DVD-3930CI's for under retail (can't say price). I would call there and inquire, ask for Duke:
(626) 577-4945

Sound Factor is a very well run and operated mom & pop boutique audio retailer.
post #3248 of 4938
BTW, for anyone checking, no 3930CI firmware updates on the Denon USA site yet, and it's been a few days since anyone's heard from DenonJeff.
post #3249 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph1950 View Post

I was thinking about purchasing a 3930 and then thought......Why?

yeah, it is expensive (and it has it issues), but an exceptionally good player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph1950 View Post

I blew a bundle on a Denon dvd5000 and although it sounded good, it lasted a few years & the laser assembly went south. A Denon repair facility replaced it & it went out again in a year..

can't really compare DVD5000 to the DVD-3930CI, much different design, older-generation compared to new-generation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph1950 View Post

So, I went to a 3910 and although it sounded and looked good, it lasted two years & now it sits in a corner of my room unhooked..

predecessor to the DVD-3930CI, similiar design architecture, an exceptionally good player as well. Although the DVD-3930CI has updated video-processing. It would definitely be worth reparing for the sound quality alone (as a CD, SACD, DVD-A, HDCD player).

BTW, how much does it typically cost to have laser replaced in a unit like this? I'm planning on keeping my DVD-3930CI forever, it sounds too good not to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph1950 View Post

bought an OPPO after recommendations from this sites members. WOW, why repair the Denon when the OPPO brand new is the same amount & I swear it looks as good on SD DVD's. I do listen to allot of music, but I use the dacs in the Bryston SP2 for that.

yeah, the Oppo DV-980H is an exceptionally good player (for $200.00). It definitely has good video quality combined with excellent sound quality. Although the Denon sounds slightly better (and is built better) for 2-channel CD's, and multi-channel analog audio (SACD, DVD-A). But multi-channel audio via-HDMI on the Oppo is incredible! As I've mentioned previously the Oppo and the Denon make for a great combination.

How is your Oppo connected to your Bryston SP2, by digital-coax?
post #3250 of 4938
The OPPO is connected by coax. HDMI for video. The Bryston at this time does not have HDMI switching, although it is in the works or will be as soon as the 1.2 2.1 or whatever is setteled. Bryston does not make moves very fast. I really liked my Denon, and it is built like a tank for sure, but the laser assembly that they use just does not hold the test of time. Only draw back I can find with them. For that kind of money, they should look to another supplier I think. So, the cost to ship & repair it was going to be around $300.00. I just could not see putting that kind of money in a dated player that may break down in another area at any time. For those that have the Denon, and it is still working, I hope it lasts a long time. At least longer than my two has. BTW, the audio company I contract to has a bunch od Denon's in need of repair sitting on shelves waiting to be done. They dropped the line a couple years ago because of thatissue. They just also dropped Rotel because of repair issues. And you should see all the Velodyne subs waiting for new amps. But that is another issue.
post #3251 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph1950 View Post

I really liked my Denon, and it is built like a tank for sure, but the laser assembly that they use just does not hold the test of time

yeah, I hope the DVD-3930CI has a more updated laser assembly. Otherwise I will continue to service it as I plan to use it for a long while. I have a huge collection of CD's, SACD's, DVD-A's and SD-DVD's. I like having the Oppo as a back-up player. Although I alternate using each player (it's fun comparing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph1950 View Post

the audio company I contract to has a bunch od Denon's in need of repair sitting on shelves waiting to be done. They dropped the line a couple years ago because of thatissue. They just also dropped Rotel because of repair issues. And you should see all the Velodyne subs waiting for new amps. But that is another issue

wow, that's very very interesting.
post #3252 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph1950 View Post

For those that have the Denon, and it is still working, I hope it lasts a long time. At least longer than my two has.

And you should see all the Velodyne subs waiting for new amps. But that is another issue.

I hope you are right about the Denon. My 3930 is good....so far.

As far as my Velodyne sub goes....I'm on amp number 3.
post #3253 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph1950 View Post

you should see all the Velodyne subs waiting for new amps. But that is another issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rang View Post

As far as my Velodyne sub goes....I'm on amp number 3

scary............sounds very likey that it's a transistor that blows out
post #3254 of 4938
My one major concern re: Denon ...is long time reliability. I too hope the 3930 stands the test of time.
post #3255 of 4938
I also am on my "third" unit. My initial unit failed after a week of use. HDMI signal was lost. Returned to dealer. my replacement unit was several months older according to the mfr date. after three months of use, the unit would frequently lock up. sent it in for service. after two months, unit was returned. service report said replaced laser optical block assembly. unit is somewhat okay. had it back for about six weeks now. it locked up twice on me so far since the last return. prior to return, it would lock up a few times a week. the only way to unlock the unit was to disconnect the power. what really sucks about denon is that the unit is unreliable and it only has a one year warranty.

Marantz has either a two or three year warranty on their stuff. Sony has a five year warranty on their ES line. One year seems really lame for the price you pay.
post #3256 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

scary............sounds very likey that it's a transistor that blows out

The first amp blew just before the warranty expired, the second a couple of months after.

Velodyne were great, they covered the second amp, even though the sub was technically now out of warranty, no questions asked.

Hopefully I won't need to test the Denon service dept.
But in case I do I already have a contact there (he helped with updating my firmware).
post #3257 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

I also am on my "third" unit. My initial unit failed after a week of use. HDMI signal was lost. Returned to dealer. my replacement unit was several months older according to the mfr date. after three months of use, the unit would frequently lock up. sent it in for service. after two months, unit was returned. service report said replaced laser optical block assembly. unit is somewhat okay. had it back for about six weeks now. it locked up twice on me so far since the last return. prior to return, it would lock up a few times a week. the only way to unlock the unit was to disconnect the power. what really sucks about denon is that the unit is unreliable and it only has a one year warranty.

Marantz has either a two or three year warranty on their stuff. Sony has a five year warranty on their ES line. One year seems really lame for the price you pay.

Yes - a one year warranty is certainly lame for such a high-cost item. And my 3930 warranty will be up next month. I shudder at the cost of any future repair(s) and shipping. My Sony 9000ES DVD player (w/ same MSRP) came w/a 5 year warranty. Never needed to use it though. And the unit still plays perfectly and I use it almost every day in my second location.
post #3258 of 4938
Getting off the Denon thread for just a second, I have a cheap Sony (compared to Denon) that is just like the energizer bunny. It keep playing and playing etc. etc.
Maybe if enough people quit buying, or extend the warranty length, they will correct the problem. It seems to be working for GM. (auto)
post #3259 of 4938
My experience with Denon has been great thus far. My AVR-4306 and DVD-2930CI remain rock-solid in mechanical reliability. I still have a perfectly working Denon AVR-2802 and DVD-910 that I bought around the time of their release.

It's a shame that Denon somewhat hurt their reputation with the 3930CI.
post #3260 of 4938
Quote:




I was thinking about purchasing a 3930 and then thought......Why? I blew a bundle on a Denon dvd5000 and although it sounded good, it lasted a few years & the laser assembly went south. A Denon repair facility replaced it & it went out again in a year. So, I went to a 3910 and although it sounded and looked good, it lasted two years & now it sits in a corner of my room unhooked. I planed to send it in to have the laser replaced, but bought an OPPO after recommendations from this sites members. WOW, why repair the Denon when the OPPO brand new is the same amount & I swear it looks as good on SD DVD's. I guess i am tired of the repairs on an expensive component. I am not downing the Denon, and if you have one & like it, then I am glad for you. I am just leary of the reliable of a product you pay over a grand for. Maybe i just got one of those Friday work day builds. Twice!
I do listen to allot of music, but I use the dacs in the Bryston SP2 for that.

Myself and a freind purched 2 DVD5000,s when they first came out, my friends lasted 3 months before the optical pickup faied, mine lasted 6 months....both were repaied but faied again....at the time the units were AUD$ 5000..

I had "2" 3930,s, both sufferd from lockups/disc read errors....both were diagnosed with failed opical pickups....i have always been a Denon fan, but this was the last straw so i went and purchased my first Marantz unit..the DV9600...couldnt be happier...fault free and it is actually a better performer than the 3930 in both audio and video!!
post #3261 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

My experience with Denon has been great thus far. My AVR-4306 and DVD-2930CI remain rock-solid in mechanical reliability. I still have a perfectly working Denon AVR-2802 and DVD-910 that I bought around the time of their release.

It's a shame that Denon somewhat hurt their reputation with the 3930CI.

I think Denon was hurt more by the 2900 DVD player than anything else. Back in the day (2003/2004) - those threads were filled w/ problem units. Even myself - I returned one 2900 (w/ noisy motor) and my second 2900 had to go in for repair after just 2 months of use.
post #3262 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

It's a shame that Denon somewhat hurt their reputation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph1950 View Post

Maybe if enough people quit buying they will correct the problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer View Post

i have always been a Denon fan, but this was the last straw so i went and purchased my first Marantz

yeah, after my brand-new DVD-3930CI failed after two months of use (a year ago) I purposely submitted a letter directly to D&M Holdings CEO (in Manhattan, NYC), these are the guys pocketing the majority of their profits. He was very responsive, a manager directly below him contacted me within a few days upon receiving my letter. They made sure my unit was processed and repaired as expediently as possible. My main point was to sort of place their problems directly to their executive's faces so they can [see] the reality directly from their customers and not from their managers. I really believe there is a concertive effort going on right now to "clean-up" some of their problems before they face more serious fall-out. I don't believe it's just a co-incidence that Jeff Talmadge ("Denon Jeff") is back here on AVSForum answering questions. I really believe he's trying to get a "feel" for what's going on out there, and what people are saying and feeling about Denon products............Denon has very nicely designed products, however they need to make some serious efforts to improve quality/manufacturing. Moreover many of their products are "arrongantly" over-priced.
post #3263 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

Denon has very nicely designed products, however they need to make some serious efforts to improve quality/manufacturing. Moreover many of their products are "arrongantly" over-priced.

I've never understood the concept of "arrogantly" overpriced.

If people will pay it, and they're making the sales numbers they had hoped to, it's not overpriced whether you think so or not.

Is a Ferrari "arrogantly" overpriced? Many would say so, but their three year waiting list to purchase a new one says not.

Price/performance is a decision we all have to make for ourselves, and frankly I think the 3930CI is a bargain given it performs even better than the 5910CI in many areas for less than half the price.
post #3264 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

I've never understood the concept of "arrogantly" overpriced..

I say this because Denon is in the large commercial market competing against other major [commercial] manufacturers like Yamaha, Sony, Onkyo, Pioneer, etc.,...With the kind of quantites they're doing they don't have to amortize costs that high, I believe they're "gouging". Especially when a significant percentage of a particular product fails after short-term use (ie. DVD-3930CI for example). Their pricing (I think) is based on a past reputation.

The following is a segment, you may have read, from the popular "ListenUp" interview in regards to the release of the new Denon BluRay player, DVD-3800BDCI, Jeff Talmadge responds (quote):
And what is the price of the new Blu-ray player?

The player itself has a retail of $1,999 SRP, so a $400 premium over the DVD-3930CI. I know some people see $1,999 and think, "There's going to be $299 Blu-rays at Christmas. What are you doing?" Well, we've never followed that normal logic ever in our history, and of course you know that.

what does that mean (we've never followed "normal logic")?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

If people will pay it, and they're making the sales numbers they had hoped to, it's not overpriced whether you think so or not..

that does'nt mean they're priced right though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

Is a Ferrari "arrogantly" overpriced? Many would say so, but their three year waiting list to purchase a new one says not..

can't really compare a Ferrari here. For one thing they're practically hand-made. The average person who could raise $1500.00 for a premium DVD player could'nt afford to raise $200,000.00 or $300,000.00 for a car. I know I could'nt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

Price/performance is a decision we all have to make for ourselves, and frankly I think the 3930CI is a bargain given it performs even better than the 5910CI in many areas for less than half the price.

both, the DVD-3930CI and the DVD-5910CI, are expensive. The DVD-5910CI is rediculously expensive. I know the DVD-3930CI has a lot of hi-end performance built-in to it, so it is a good value relative to the DVD-5910CI as you mention.

And I know there are many other "boutique" manufacturers producing players for $4K to $10K.

The Oppo DV-980H is what I call a "bargain" (@$180.00).

Why is it that Pioneer Elite can produce some very impressive players for typically $1000.00 and under? The guys at one of my local dealers are totally raving about the Elite BDP-95FD, claiming it yields some of the best picture quality of the current collection of comparable players, they sell them as fast as they get them in stock.

I'm not meaning to have a "flame" contest here either.............
post #3265 of 4938
Does someone actually have verifiable statistical evidence that supports the claim that the 3930 has a more frequent repair rate than other DVD players. I can see the online anecdotal evidence varies opinion wise, so any idea how many were sold how many repaired?. Why aren't more for sale on ebay or videogon ?. Anyone know?.
post #3266 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post


both, the DVD-3930CI and the DVD-5910CI, are expensive. The DVD-5910CI is rediculously expensive. I know the DVD-3930CI has a lot of hi-end performance built-in to it, so it is a good value relative to the DVD-5910CI as you mention.

And I know there are many other "boutique" manufacturers producing players for $4K to $10K.

But the Oppo DV-980H is what I call a "bargain".

Why is it that Pioneer Elite can produce some very impressive players for typically $1000.00 and under?

I'm not meaning to add unecessary "flame" here either.............

I know what you mean. However, look at Denon's upcoming pre/pro and amplifier combination. That has an MSRP of $14,000, yet if you read the manual of the pre/pro, you'll see that the AVR-5805CI is given better real-world performance numbers for its audio section. The AVR-5805CI is half the price of the pre/pro and amp combo, and its amp section should have no problems driving difficult 5 or 7 speaker configurations in 8-ohm loads.

I think the AVR-5805CI and DVD-5910CI are relative bargains when compared to Denon's newest offerings.

You at least have to give Denon credit for their incredible build quality. Just compare the Oppo 980's internals (pictured below) to online pics of the 3930CI and 5910CI's internals. Some people consider build quality to be a mitigating factor for Denon's pricing structure, even though that doesn't always reflect reliability and performance.

post #3267 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by redshift1 View Post

Does someone actually have verifiable statistical evidence that supports the claim that the 3930 has a more frequent repair rate than other DVD players. Any idea how many were sold how many repaired?

I'd like to know myself. This thread documented a pretty high rate of failures though.
post #3268 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

look at Denon's upcoming pre/pro and amplifier combination. That has an MSRP of $14,000

I know, I was gonna mention this but did'nt want to dig even deeper

The pre-pro alone is like $7000.00, pretty damn expensive if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

yet if you read the manual of the pre/pro, you'll see that the AVR-5805CI is given better real-world performance numbers for its audio section. The AVR-5805CI is half the price of the pre/pro and amp combo, and its amp section should have no problems driving difficult 5 or 7 speaker configurations in 8-ohm loads..

actually I have'nt read much details lately on these units. I think they're both impressive actually, especially the separate pre-pro. I'm very curious to hear some reviews in regards to sound-quality for music (2ch and multi-channel).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

I think the AVR-5805CI and DVD-5910CI are relative bargains when compared to Denon's newest offerings..

yeah, true..........I believe the AVR-5805CI retailed for $5000,00? And the DVD-5910CI retials for $3800.00 (that's $8800.00), I would expect no failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

You at least have to give Denon credit for their incredible build quality

I do. I love my DVD-3930CI for that reason, partly the reason I purchased it. It is built like a tank. It has discrete audio and video sections, and many more very nice features. But hate the fact that it failed after two months of use (brand-new).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

Just compare the Oppo 980's internals (pictured below) to online pics of the 3930CI and 5910CI's internals. Some people consider build quality to be a mitigating factor for Denon's pricing structure, even though that doesn't always reflect reliability and performance.

yeah, but the comparisons are relative- ie. a $200.00 product compared to a $1500.00 product.
post #3269 of 4938
Never seen the inside of an OPPO before. Shocking to say the least Amazing that OPPO can look/sound so good w/ just two cheap looking circuit boards and a 50 cents power supply. Guess all the magic resides inside that one LSIC. On another note - maybe its simplicity is a virtue
post #3270 of 4938
Guys, I too had problems with my 2930. Laser optics broke down after a year. The technician I talked too said he received many Denon units with this problem. And the new optics he put on mine will only last about a year or two at the most. Sad state of affairs if you ask me.
I will not buy from Denon again, specially players. On the other hand, I have to tell you that my AVR-2803 Receiver never had a single problem.
Take care all!
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