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Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- - Page 129

post #3841 of 4938
The Denons can't output 1080p/24. That isn't to say it is not possible for DVD players at all.
Film based content (24fps) on R1 DVD is stored as 60i with 3:2 pulldown flags, so it could easily be outputted as 1080p/24.
The problem lies in the DVD menus and DVD extras which often cannot be played back correctly at 1080p/24 (as they are filmed on video in a real interlaced format).

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post #3842 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by BENN0 View Post

The Denons can't output 1080p/24. That isn't to say it is not possible for DVD players at all.
Film based content (24fps) on R1 DVD is stored as 60i with 3:2 pulldown flags, so it could easily be outputted as 1080p/24.
The problem lies in the DVD menus and DVD extras which often cannot be played back correctly at 1080p/24 (as they are filmed on video in a real interlaced format).

Your statement doesn't make sense. My understanding is the 3:2 and other cadences are already implemented in dvd players but do not correspond to any mathematical conversion to change a 60fps to 24fps. A 3:2 cadence corresponds to taking 3 frames and squeezing it into two, at 60fps the output will be 40fps. But because 3930 handles this conversion flawlessly it comes as close to film as you would expect.
The dvd manufacturer who advertises the 1080/24p indicates the dvd must be created in 24fps before it can be up convert to 1080/24p. To the best of my knowledge only bluray dvds have been created with 24fps.
post #3843 of 4938
Yeah, I wasn't completely clear there. Film based content is stored on NTSC DVD's as "48i" (the original 24 progressive frames are split into 48 interlaced frames or better, 48 half frames) and encoded with 3:2 cascade flags in the MPEG2 stream to be outputted as 60i.
This is not the problem. The problem lies in the menus and additional content that is often true 30p or true 60i.
For a DVD player to correctly display both the menus/extra's and the main movie it would need to switch automatically between the different output formats.

Only recently screens have started to accept 1080p/24 so this was never an option.


Btw I do not see where you get 40fps from.
The original 24 film frames are split into 48 interlaced frames. Half of these interlaced frames are then repeated 2 times (2x12=24) and half of them are repeated 3 times (3x12=48). Resulting in 24+48=60 half frames.

"Progressive scan" DVD players will just de-interlace the 48 half frames to the original 24, scale those to 720p or 1080p and again repeat them in a 3:2 pattern to output 60p.
post #3844 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by BENN0 View Post

The Denons can't output 1080p/24. That isn't to say it is not possible for DVD players at all.
Film based content (24fps) on R1 DVD is stored as 60i with 3:2 pulldown flags, so it could easily be outputted as 1080p/24.
The problem lies in the DVD menus and DVD extras which often cannot be played back correctly at 1080p/24 (as they are filmed on video in a real interlaced format).

That is correct. I'm currently using an OPPO 980 and DVDO video processor. Outputting 1080p/24 from film-based SD DVDs eliminates cadence judder, and thus allows for a smoother picture if your display is able to properly accommodate it. While not a make or break feature, it is nice to have for those trying to get the absolute most out of the format.
post #3845 of 4938
I'm having (another) weird problem with my Denon 2930 and forgive me if this sounds thick but I'm new to the whole upscaling game.

Last weekend I bought a Panasonic TX-32LZD85 HDTV.

When I watch a Blu-Ray disc though the HDMI-1 input using "Normal" picture mode the picture is absolutely sensational. I have the contrast set to roughly 75%, the brightness to 65% and the colour to 40%.

However, when I watch DVDs on my Denon 2930 upscated to 1080p through the HDMI-2 input the picture is absolutely horrible and I realised that the TV is knocking the brightness down by about a half when reading an HDMI signal from the Denon (I don't even have to put a disc in, the TV just senses the HDMI input from the Denon when it's powered-on and drops the brightness).

In order for DVDs to look anything like as bright as Blu-Rays I have to raise the brightness to 90%.

I loaded up the THX calibration from the Attack Of The Clones DVD (also run though the Denon) and, sure enough, it guided me to set my brightness at about 90% (i.e. when the shadow behind the THX logo disappears but the logo remains)

Is this normal? Should the TV be dropping the brightness as soon as is picks up an HMDI signal from the Denon 2930?

I'm using the same HMDI cables from both the Panasonic BD-50 Blu-Ray player and the Denon 2930 (i.e. Panasonic v1.3a cables with deep colour)

Thanks!!!
post #3846 of 4938
The service center called today to say that the laser needs to be replaced, about $225. The laser unit has to be ordered so no idea when repairs will be completed since their experience recently has been that lasers are being reported as on backorder.
post #3847 of 4938
Crazytrekker,
Try setting the IRE to 0 on your 2930 before adjusting the brightness and see if that helps. The instructions are on page 30 of the 2930 manual. Essentially you have to make a custom setting in memory.
post #3848 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdj View Post

The service center called today to say that the laser needs to be replaced, about $225. The laser unit has to be ordered so no idea when repairs will be completed since their experience recently has been that lasers are being reported as on backorder.

Dear cdj: I think they are going to replace the complete traverse unit (laser pickup plus control motors) because Denon doesn't recomend any service in this unit (it is factory calibrated). In my opinion, there is a project problem in this unit or the factory adjustment is not very precise. It could explain the high number of reports about this problem.
post #3849 of 4938
ok guys i uploaded the problems with my denon 2930Ci

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZocYGoK_IYM

The good news is if you can do it yourself it'll only cost you 86 bucks.
post #3850 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdj View Post

The service center called today to say that the laser needs to be replaced, about $225. The laser unit has to be ordered so no idea when repairs will be completed since their experience recently has been that lasers are being reported as on backorder

I sent my DVD-3930CI to Denon Fatory Repair (Mahwah, NJ) a few weeks back. I just recieved an (e-mail) estimate of repairs with a total charge of $364.63 .

It lists:
part No. 9KA2A692 Traverse Unit DVD3930CI quan-01 $110.50
to be replaced

Not sure if this is the laser assembly, or a related mechanical assembly?


Dave
post #3851 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

I sent my DVD-3930CI to Denon Fatory Repair (Mahwah, NJ) a few weeks back. I just recieved an (e-mail) estimate of repairs with a total charge of $364.63 .

It lists:
part No. 9KA2A692 Traverse Unit DVD3930CI quan-01 $110.50
to be replaced

Not sure if this is the laser assembly, or a related mechanical assembly?


Dave

Dave: The 3930CI and 2930CI use similar (but not equal) traverse units. As this unit has the laser pickup and the servo motors, it is not clear the origin of the problem. It could be mechanical misalignment, laser faults or both. It is related that replacing the traverse unit solves the problems related to hybrid SACD reading. I wondering if it is really necessary to replace such unit or it could be adjusted. I my case, my new 2930CI started this problem with only two days of use.
post #3852 of 4938
Since my 3930ci isn't under warranty now, I sent it to Electronic Express in Chicago on the recommendation of Frank who did the Upgrade Company mods. This might explain the repair cost difference.
post #3853 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunz View Post

Dave: The 3930CI and 2930CI use similar (but not equal) traverse units. As this unit has the laser pickup and the servo motors, it is not clear the origin of the problem. It could be mechanical misalignment, laser faults or both. It is related that replacing the traverse unit solves the problems related to hybrid SACD reading. I wondering if it is really necessary to replace such unit or it could be adjusted. I my case, my new 2930CI started this problem with only two days of use.

thanks for your input. At this point I would much rather prefer to have the complete laser/traverse mechanical assembly replaced, as I want to reduce the chance
of failure (maybe get at least a year of trouble-free use before the next failure).
post #3854 of 4938
To Dutchman01

From UK site http://www.avforums.com/forums/denon...tration-3.html "..Just had my 3930 Realta update via denon uk and it now reads:
BE 8284-8
MAKE DAY 111
DSP 8250
IP 08 01 02

this seems different to other forum members' updates? revised newer firmware or more up to date hqv chip?

picture has improved and is generally smoother."

Do you have information about new changes in to FW for Realta?
post #3855 of 4938
Okay now that I've finally joined the HDTV/LCD revolution and my Denon 2930 (UK model) is linked via HDMI to a Panasonic TX-32LZD85 it looks like I've discovered that I'm suffering from the "Progressive Mode" bug that was discussed several dozen pages back.

When "Progressive Mode" is set to "auto" I'm finding that R2 PAL DVDs are incredibly jerky and hideous to watch. When I switch from "auto" to "video1" the problem instantly goes away.

This is ridiculous considering that both the DVD player and TV are UK models and PAL is the UK standard! (Thankfully most of my movies are R1 but I still have a fair amount of PAL TV material).

The last I heard, this fault could only be fixed by sending your player back to the factory. Is this still the case? If it is I'll be seriously p'd off because I only just got it back from the last fix (not reading discs properly) and the panel at the front was all scratched! Couldn't it be fixed by a firmware update instead? (I'm using the latest firmware from Denon's UK site)

What have other UK (or Euro) customers done about this?

Would there be any issues if I simply left the player in "Video 1" mode?
post #3856 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIMA Netu View Post

To Dutchman01

From UK site http://www.avforums.com/forums/denon...tration-3.html "..Just had my 3930 Realta update via denon uk and it now reads:
BE 8284-8
MAKE DAY 111
DSP 8250
IP 08 01 02

this seems different to other forum members' updates? revised newer firmware or more up to date hqv chip?

picture has improved and is generally smoother."

Do you have information about new changes in to FW for Realta?


This is fun and great news for you and us.
I did not know about a new upgrade firmware for the realta chip.
nice to see you got a newer one.

I did send a email back to Denon and ask the head technical service Denon netherlands for more info about this.

if i have news i will post it here as soon i have the info.

Thanks for the info DIMA Netu.
Dutchman
post #3857 of 4938
In my DVD2930CI I can activate the random play and repeat functions at the same time using SACD discs. On the other hand, when I listen to CDs, I am not able to activate both functions at the same time, but they work alone. Is it normal to 2930CI or 3930CI?
post #3858 of 4938
Hi Dutchman,
I already had it repaired once in London (back in June), and after only using it for a few hours before my holiday, I went on a 2 month holiday.
I did NOT use the 3930 for 2 months!
Then I had a terrible problem (for the second time) with my 3930 just after coming from holiday. (?!)
The same problems again, even though the traverse mechanism and the power board were already changed. (?!)
I had no picture and no sound. Just today I received 3930 after having the video/audio board changed. Now I have a same problem now and then with coloured stripes (yet again) on TV through HDMI.This was happening before it was repaired for the first time.
The new problem is that now I can't adjust the picture. If I use any of the memories 1, 2,3,4,5 my picture is lost and HDMI output messed up.
Also, my firmware is: 8284-5 (presumably it is the older version and very odd because it used to be 8284-8), MAKE DAY is 305 (used to be 111), DSP 8250 (is unchanged) and IP is 080102 (used to be 070518).
I will enquire with the repair centre about this, but in the meantime do you or anyone knows what all these numbers mean and should you also be contacting your Denon service in regards to my IP number being higher than yours- what might indicate that your Realta should be upgraded?

Cheers.
post #3859 of 4938
Well just to give everyone an update, I replaced the traverse unit myself and it works perfectly now.

I had a problem before with a blue line of dots running vertical on screen when I had the unit upscaling, now thats gone.

And the grand total was $90 bucks, got the replacement the very next day and it only took me about 40mins to get it up and running.
post #3860 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIMA Netu View Post

To Dutchman01

From UK site http://www.avforums.com/forums/denon...tration-3.html "..Just had my 3930 Realta update via denon uk and it now reads:
BE 8284-8
MAKE DAY 111
DSP 8250
IP 08 01 02

this seems different to other forum members' updates? revised newer firmware or more up to date hqv chip?

picture has improved and is generally smoother."

Do you have information about new changes in to FW for Realta?

Ok here i'm back more info about this updated realta chip version 080102

IP 080102 resolve a bug with 1 dvd.

SYMPTOM: When "Picture with early movement" of ch12 of "Don Quixote"
on the DVD disc is reproduced, the picture is not smoothly reproduce.

Thats all it update's over IP 070518.

I don't bring in my unit for this update.
One day when i'm arround denon head office i do bring it in.
No need for me to get this fix today.
post #3861 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman01 View Post

Ok here i'm back more info about this updated realta chip version 080102

IP 080102 resolve a bug with 1 dvd.

SYMPTOM: When "Picture with early movement" of ch12 of "Don Quixote"
on the DVD disc is reproduced, the picture is not smoothly reproduce.

Thats all it update's over IP 070518.

I don't bring in my unit for this update.
One day when i'm arround denon head office i do bring it in.
No need for me to get this fix today.

Produce new updating only for one disk, Good fellows from Denon!
I handed over the player in service two times, and two times to me changed a video-board with an old FW of the Realta chip, and I think, may be, in general did not nothing.
Dutchman01 did you see as do chip modernization? I think, that a player hook up through RS 232 to the computer and do change FW. Right?
post #3862 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIMA Netu View Post

Produce new updating only for one disk, Good fellows from Denon!
I handed over the player in service two times, and two times to me changed a video-board with an old FW of the Realta chip, and I think, may be, in general did not nothing.
Dutchman01 did you see as do chip modernization? I think, that a player hook up through RS 232 to the computer and do change FW. Right?

The Realta chip has is own firmware onboard the chip.

It't cant be updated true the rs-232 poort in the design from the 3930.
The motherboard that holds the chip does have a little socket that kan be used to program this realta processor.

It can only be done by denon service center.

The first IP update is the most important for al dvd's, special in mind for the Pal regio's. This second IP revision just for 1 disc most special for NTSC regio.
(Not Europe).

Not that said it's not useable for you, I know lots of people here in europe with other disc's they playing than the regio 2 (Europe disc's).
(Or Visa Versa).

For me i stick at IP 070518 witch resolve a lot bad picture quality for my regio for more info about this, please go back this topic.
post #3863 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman01 View Post

The Realta chip has is own firmware onboard the chip.

It't cant be updated true the rs-232 poort in the design from the 3930.
The motherboard that holds the chip does have a little socket that kan be used to program this realta processor.

It can only be done by denon service center.

The first IP update is the most important for al dvd's, special in mind for the Pal regio's. This second IP revision just for 1 disc most special for NTSC regio.
(Not Europe).

Not that said it's not useable for you, I know lots of people here in europe with other disc's they playing than the regio 2 (Europe disc's).
(Or Visa Versa).

For me i stick at IP 070518 witch resolve a lot bad picture quality for my regio for more info about this, please go back this topic.

In Spain they have absolutely no idea of what we are talking about here, or they won´t do the upgrade .

I wait 3 months with the 3930 at service for the upgrade and finally they only update the firmware to 8284-8

This is very sad for me as my loved 3930 has severe problems of combing

I wrote Denon Germany few times but never got an answer

It will be nice if somebody could tell me how to make myself the upgrade of the Realta chip.

Nacho.
post #3864 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by nachin View Post

In Spain they have absolutely no idea of what we are talking about here, or they won´t do the upgrade .

I wait 3 months with the 3930 at service for the upgrade and finally they only update the firmware to 8284-8

This is very sad for me as my loved 3930 has severe problems of combing

I wrote Denon Germany few times but never got an answer

It will be nice if somebody could tell me how to make myself the upgrade of the Realta chip.

Nacho.

Again for the last time said to me,

REALTA CHIP Update's CAN NOT BE DONE BY US CUSTOMERS.


YOU NEED TO BRING IN THE UNIT TO DENON SERVICE CENTER.


please, read my past posts.

i can imagine your mind about this,
sorry but you have to keep the pressure on them.

Maybe something can be done if you contact also to DenonJeff.
Sometimes active here on avsforum, a big man from denon he is if you didn't know.

maybe he can make some phone calls for you.

Don't know what i can say more about this if your country dealer doesn't want to upgrade your unit.
post #3865 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunz View Post

Dave: The 3930CI and 2930CI use similar (but not equal) traverse units. As this unit has the laser pickup and the servo motors, it is not clear the origin of the problem. It could be mechanical misalignment, laser faults or both. It is related that replacing the traverse unit solves the problems related to hybrid SACD reading. I wondering if it is really necessary to replace such unit or it could be adjusted. I my case, my new 2930CI started this problem with only two days of use.

yeah, I finally got my DVD-3930CI unit back in the mail today. Have'nt had the chance to install it yet. But was reading through the customer service invoice, it states (quote):
"CLEANED/CHECKED/TESTED ALL FUNCTIONS
REPLACED LISTED PART
RESET CPU
UPDATED SOFTWARE
HEAT RUN TESTED FOR 3 DAYS"

"Parts Used:
DVD3930CI PROG SCAN UNIVERSAL DVD/S QUAN-01
9KA2A692 TRAVERSE UNIT DVD3930CI QUAN-01 ($110.00ea)
Parts Total 110.00
Labor 200.00
Tax 09.13
Shipping 45.00
Total 364.63"


Thought $200.00 for labor was extremely high. Also, don't know which version of firmware it has now (will check once everything is re-installed).

Anyway, hope this unit provides stable playback at least for another year (or two) to make it all worth it

But I'm glad to have it back.............
post #3866 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetDMC View Post

Well just to give everyone an update, I replaced the traverse unit myself and it works perfectly now.

I had a problem before with a blue line of dots running vertical on screen when I had the unit upscaling, now thats gone.

And the grand total was $90 bucks, got the replacement the very next day and it only took me about 40mins to get it up and running.

Where did you purchase the part?
post #3867 of 4938
Quote:
Originally Posted by maphiker View Post

Where did you purchase the part?

I got mine direct from my local Denon Headquaters.

Contact the one nearest you and see what they say... if you want I could give you the e-mail of the guy who helped me.
post #3868 of 4938
I haven't used my 3910 for awhile (~6 months). Yesterday, I watched a few hours of a DVD. It worked great. Then I started listening to SACD (multichannel). I started hearing pauses in the songs. I started to watch the display and saw that the time readout was either skipping or stopping.

I cleaned the disk and tried again. The same problem. I tried a few other discs with similar results. I popped in a regular CD and had no more problems. This morning I popped in a few DVDs and had display problems. Red streaks become prominant in the picture, pixel blocking etc. The problem is also seen on the Denon splash screen as well (red tinges/outlines) on what should be a normal blue screen.

The problem occurs via DVI and Component cables. The same cables do NOT reproduce the problem with my Toshiba Xa1. This rules out the cables and the projector leaving the problem with the Denon unit. I purchased a cleaning disk and it did not solve the picture problems or the SACD problems.

Any ideas? I'm guessing maybe the laser/assembly is going bad? How do I get this diagnosed and fixed as quickly as possible? Or is this a more expensive and extensive problem than I think? I'm really not looking to buy a new premier player after just 4 years. Any advice/help would be appreciated. Thanks!

I realize this isn't the 3910 thread, but just asking all Denon owners to be most efficient
post #3869 of 4938
FoolintheRain:
Six months is a very short time to achieve the laser end of life. I have similar problems with my 2030CI (started with only two days of use!). In my opinion, there is some misalignment (electrical or mechanical). Unfortunately, Denon doesn't recommend any service in the laser unit and they normally change the called traverse unit (see WestCoastD #3865 above).
post #3870 of 4938
Can the 2930 or 3930 be made multi-region via remote control? Can the US model play Pal discs? If so, has anyone tried Pal-to-NTSC conversion via composite, s-video, or component? If so, does it do a good job, or are there major artifacts?
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