Denon DVD-3930 & DVD-2930 w/Realta T2 Chip Coming September- - Page 14

Do you want to purchase my 7 DVD-A's and 47 SACD's? I am really back into vinyl and 2 channel cd's. Other than some classical stuff, surround music other than concert films makes little sense to me

By the way, Kal, do you use a universal player or a dedicated SACD player for a majority of your listening. I have never really understood the hoopla over universal players. Put too much into one box and something else has to suffer (even if its' a Denon 5910).

To each his own, but I love both and collect both. There is sublime art to be appreciated in both. I watch many of my Criterions over and over again. To me the content is the overriding factor. That's why I could only watch Fifth Element once -- barely -- regardless of how good the video looks. It's also why I wonder about all those folks who say it's "game over" for SD. Don't they enjoy the content in movies? Or is it all about eye candy? The 2930 and 3930 promise to make the most of all that content we have now (NetFlix says it carries 60,000 titles). I'm personally very interested in that since I will be renting SD titles and watching movies from my SD collection for years to come and am very unlikely to update (or even find) many of my titles in HD in the near future.

I love movies too... music I just DL off the net, but I'm too impatient to do that with movies. Either way, with movies, with very few exceptions, I can only watch a movie I LOVE 2 or 3 times. Die Hard 1 & 2, Terminator 2 and Ferris Buelers Day Off are probably the only movies I've seen into the double digits.

Sorry, I think this is getting off topic LOL... back to the Denon DVD-2930 & DVD-3930, I bet they'll make Terminator 2 look really good LOL!

But the 3805/6 has AL24+ processing as well! So you loose nothing

I'm interested in hearing your opinion why you believe the audio options on HD players suck. So far I've been very impressed with HD audio on the Tosh

I spent several hours with a friend who did an A-B comparison between his Tosh A-1 and Denon 3910 and came away giving the edge for both PQ and AQ to the Tosh...but I guess these things are personal choices. And it's always interesting when you see someone like Denon releasing a $1,500+ SD DVD player at the same time that BD and HD DVD players with excellent DVD playback are being released.

While I can't argue with the fact that SACD is a niche product, so are DVD players that cost $850 and $1500. And I suspect there's at least some overlap between these niches. Denon must think there's at least enough overlap to support SACD on these players. I guess they must figure that most of those people that care about this also have Denon receivers and can use DenonLink, so it's not worth it to them to add iLink for those of us not in the Denon receiver camp. My preference would be for support for a standard interface (even a dead one!) over a proprietary one that does basically the same thing but locks you into an all-Denon solution. But again, I can't disagree with you that the number of people who care about this is quite small -- and I'll second the hope expressed by others that maybe they will implement HDMI 1.2 in these players which would accomplish the same thing (essentially), at least for anyone who has the bought the latest group of Pioneer Elite receivers that include HDMI 1.2.

I honestly have no clue why they make a $1500 DVD player now or ever. Just like I have no clue why they would make a $3800 DVD player or a $5000 AVR. A niche market or audiophile market is one thing, but thats excessive in any case. I doubt people who buy these players do it for the SACD. They just want the best DVD playback possible for video and audio even when most people wont see or hear a difference between the DVD-5910 and a DVD-1910. But in regards to SACD, its no longer a niche market, its a dead market. If the people who came up with the damn thing are no longer supporting it, I doubt others will after a while. I think music will forever be stuck in the 2.0 realm just as DVD movies have been stuck in the 5.1 realm.

I wouldn't pay a premium for HDMI 1.2 at this point, but I would for HDMI 1.3 and a 1080p plasma or a GOOD BluRay/HD-DVD player.

I was originally going to plunk down for a DVD-3910, but now I'm holding off til this stuff gets to a "stable point". The RealtaHQV chip is a nice selling point, since it'll get rid of the macro blocking issues.

I think the issue is (well, for me at least) is that I dont respect Toshiba, Samsung and Sony as producing quality gear at this point. Most people who plunk down $1k for a CE device probably dont think much of Toshiba and Samsung either. Just IMO on that one . For me, respectable companies at this point are Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer Elite (although I hate the glossy finish) and Panasonic for plasmas.

HI All,

Does any one know when the 3930 is coming to Australia, and how much it might be ?
thanks

Ha! That's just great. D-link all the way baby!

shane

They clearly make it because enough people buy it to make it worth their while (if they couldn't make money with it, they wouldn't make it, pure and simple).

Considering they keep coming out with quality SACD titles, I do not agree that it is dead. Yes, the market is not huge, but as long as they keep making and selling them, it's not dead either.

Since I bought my 3910 2 years ago, I have gotten good use out of it already, and plan to enjoy it for the next 1-2 years, until GOOD high def players are out there. I'd gladly pay $1500 yet again for a Denon BD/HD player with SACD down the road. Since I have no MB problems with my 3910 and my display, I would agree with you that upgrading it to a 3930 at this point in time would not be the best use of my $$.

I have a universal player and a dedicated SACD player in each system.

Kal

My interests are primarily in audio; video is secondary to me. So, no SACD, no DVD-A and, afaik, no music only in the new formats. It may change. I may change.

Kal

I'm not that picky video-wise, but I can tell a great deal of difference between my former 5900 and my 5910 on my 30 inch 1080i, 16:9 crt.
On a big screen the difference is far more apparent.

I knew that buying the 5910 was "loser" of sorts but for me the clincher was the audio section and it's support of all 3 formats. I am more than satisfied with its performance on all levels.
As Kal said earlier that may change in future depending whether any studios decide to release music on the 2 lossless codecs supported by HD players.

Maybe we'll get DVD-A in quantity afterall.

I wouldn't say that.
True, the first Toshiba HD-DVD players had audio problems, but I believe they have the issue corrected. The first Toshiba's had terrible surround sound coming from the rear speakers.
I just don't see spending $500+ on a SD-DVD player when the HD-DVD players do such a great job of up-converting.
My Denon 2910 has been less than impressive from a dependability stand point.
My first player had slow loads and sometimes didn't load a disc at all. So I sent it back and got a replacement. Now the replacement 2910 does not push the signal through my 30ft cable run that my first one had no problem doing. I have been told that mid production year, Denon started using different parts in their player. Apparently this change has had some affect on my situation. So I have to ask, is this fraud? Denon sends their players out for review when they are first released to achieve a certain benchmark score. Now, midstream, they change some of the innards of the player.
If you ask me, this is fraud. Do you suppose Denon no longer uses those earlier bench mark scores??
I bet they do.

Craig

I will be getting the 3930 when it arrives, for a couple of reasons. I want a really nice SD player that can do SACD/DVD-A. I want a player that does excelent upscaling for a reasonable price(I get Denon stuff for a nice price, so it's not as much of a plunge for me). I, like some other members here, am not going to be any early adopter of either HD format. I am holding out for at least gen. 2 players and more movies(oh and better ones too). So, I figure this player will hold me over for at least a few years when it comes to SD movies, and a lot longer for CD/SACD/DVD-A, that is unless Denon has a universal player comming out down the line(BR or HD with the above mentioned audio), it's only a matter of time I guess.

Denon and other companies aren't clueless, even though they might seem to be sometimes. If, and when, they feel the new gen HD players are impacting their bottom line, they'll make changes. So far, they have nothing to worry about and nothing is going to change in the near future. The A1 does a very good job with SD DVDs, but there are better players and the new Denons should raise the bar higher. But the other aspects of the A1 - at any price - make it a non-issue. (From a useability standpoint it's a POS).

larry

I'll be interested to see "how much better" these new players are.
I would bet the difference will be very minimal at best from the performance of the previous 2910, 3910 and 5910's.
Better yet, how much better video will these new SD-DVD players achieve over what the current HD-DVD players produce with a SD DVD?

Right now, all I am reading is a bunch of hype.
I have seen what the Toshiba can do and I would trade my 2910 for an un-opened HD-DVD player in a heartbeat.

Sure Denon players put out a superb picture. But they are like a temperamental flashy sports car. When they run, nothing can keep up. But when they act up, they are a piece of crap. My 2910 is not the only one I have seen have issues. I know another person who has a 2910 and they have issues with theirs as well.

Craig

If you think the Tosh is better than the 5910 for SD DVDs, then these new players are clearly not for you. The 3930 will match up well to the 5910, but will not surpass it. I don't know what you mean by "hype." Professional reviews have claimed the 5910 has better PQ than any other player out there, bar none (for SD DVDs). Please don't make any judgements based on your 2910. Many people like the build and audio of the Denons, and I for one am waiting for the high def formats to provide SACD support and both HD/BD support. Talking about "temperamental" players, the Tosh has its share of problem posts.

Don't get me wrong, the Tosh is a great value for what you get (HD-DVD capability and excellent upscaling of SD DVDs), but that doesn't mean the Denons are "crap."

I am not saying the Denons are ALL crap. I own the 2910. I also must say that when I bought the 2910, I felt it was the best bang for the buck in it's price range. I just question their dependability. The problem I have with them is that half the people I know that have the 2910 and 3910 have had some sort of issue that required sending the unit in for repair.
Yea... lets compare a 3K+ 5910 to the $500 Toshiba when comparing SD DVD's. I would hope it handled SD DVD's better than the Toshiba. Of course I got a better idea. I will put in some HD-DVD's in the player and then lets see how the picture compares to the 5910... which is my point.
I think the better match-up is between the Toshiba and the 2910 and 3910 for SD DVD's since the 3910 only MSRP's for three times the Toshiba's price and the 2910 MSRP's for several hundred more..
When I bought my 2910 about one year ago, HD-DVD and BD were only "what if's" in the industry. If I were in the market for a new higher end player... it would be the Toshiba.

Craig

I think that you will be surprised. Just for the 3930, Faroudja is gone, so there will be no more macroblocking for people with susceptible displays.

Plus, the explanation I heard for the increase in layer change delay from the 2900 to the 3910, even though both have buffers, was the Faroudja processing in the 3910.

So there's the hope that the layer change on the 3930 will be as good as the 2900. Which is among the best there is.

What do you guys think would look best:

2930CI upconvert SD-DVD to 720p connected to a Pioneer 5070
- OR -
2930CI no SD-DVD conversion (480i) connected to a Pioneer 5070

2930CI upconvert SD-DVD to 1080p connected to the forthcoming Panasonic 50PZ600 (it's a 1080p native PDP)
- OR -
2930 no SD-DVD conversion (480i) connected to the forthcoming Panasonic 50PZ600 (it's a 1080p native PDP)

In short, is the scaler better in those PDP or in the Denon? And is it NOTICEABLE? I have read other threads and several people say that feeding a 480i signal is best on some PDP (e.g. 5070) because of the quality of their scalers. If that is the case, then I'd rather spend 150$ on the Oppo 970 than 850$ on the Denon (both can output 480i) if image quality is similar (they probably sound different, but that's another story...)

Thanks.

Just curious...has anyone firsthand ever been able to compare the Denon 3910 to the 5910? Aside from test patterns and assuming you get no MB from the 3910, was the 5910 image quality THAT much better?

Look in the 5910 owners thread. Kris owns a 5910 and previously had a 3910, IIRC. You can't linearly equate performance gains with price increases. It's always diminishing returns. You have to decide whether or not the performance benefits are worth the extra money.

larry

Nobody has used the new Denon players or the new Pio or Panny plasma. My crystal ball is in the shop for repairs. If you want 480i output via HDMI, get an Oppo 970HD, not need to spend the extra money on the new players with the (most likely) better deinterlacers. And the deinterlacers in the new players will most likely be better than the ones in the new plasmas.

larry

I totally agree.

Considering the 5910 uses the same processing as the forthcoming 3930 (ie. non Faroudja) and has the same layer change performance as the 3910, I find that very doubtful.

The 2900 uses a Mitsubishi decoder whereas the *910 series use the ESS decoder. Unless the ESS decoder performance has been improved I would predict the layer change will be the same.

I would have thought that the buffer size would be key - have enough to keep the video processing busy while the player finds the data to read during the layer change. However, the 2900 and 3910 use 8mb buffers. There goes that theory.

larry

PQ 3910 vs. 5910.
I previously owned a 5900 which video-wise I believe is equivalent to 3910 and later bought a 5910.
Questions like "Is the xxxx performance worth the $$$?"
or as in this case "that much better?" are impossible to quantify for someone else.

For me the improved PQ of 5910 vs the 5900 was worth it and I'm not that ultra-particular but the difference is obvious and it is obvious on every disc I watch and it is obvious on a 30" crt or a 96" FP screen.

A little OT, but I also bought the 5910 for the audio. There the improvement is not as great but it is still there. For the money, the 5910 design and build quality is in a class by itself.

If certain things can be assumed, the 3930 should be an excellent player.