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The Descent, When is going to be available? - Page 17

post #481 of 506
1/10/07 at 8:13am
Well, I liked that prior to the cave sequence, it showed you things, versus told you. It leapt right in, showing the particulars of these lives, cinema verite style -- conversation and setup was very natural and real, much in the style and reminiscent of the setup for ALIEN among others.

That is intelligent and has authentic experience written all over it -- had me thinking "good movie" -- then there was that cave business. I think the title refers to the moment just after funding ran out for the script, which roughly coincided with the writers questioning "So we got them to this cave....what happens now?"

The descent from that point makes it look like an idiotic D grade flick had been grafted onto a first rate one -- all of which would not have mattered much if something in the audio/visual realm had picked up the slack in the cave. No such luck.
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post #482 of 506
1/10/07 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu_1 View Post

I'd like to see that top 10 to get an idea of where The Descent sits with you. It would give much insight into why you think it's so great. Please share.

I agree that the genre can be defined very differently by different people. For example, I would consider Silence of the Lambs one of the greatest horror movies of all time while others might not even consider it a horror movie.

My reasons for considering this film's greatness have been chronicled since the beginning of this thread, (along with many possible alternate endings, and even some special features others didn't see because they didn't get the R13 version. )

Silence of the Lambs would be a psychological thriller, and not even remotely close to horror, in my book. A few of us here went on a discussion between the differences between horror/terror/gore a while back when Hostel and Wolf Creek was released. To me, these are the differences;

horror: invokes shock at what is shown on screen, unease in response to an object or event, or utter disbelief at what's presented before your own eyes, yet cannot look away from.

terror: creates impending feeling of dread, disconcerting and unbelievable fear at what is most likely to happen next, engaging the subconscious corners of the psyche, real or unreal, until an event releases the pent-up emotion.

gore: bloody grotesqueness bathing in its own merit.

thriller: utilizes an aura or atmosphere that relies upon a sense of anxious anticipation continually hinging upon possibilities of the next event.

Examples/differences would be that we go see a movie with the wife and she; gasps at the horror, screams at the terror, covers her eyes at the gore, and clasps your hand at a thriller.
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post #483 of 506
1/10/07 at 10:33am
I think Silence of the Lambs fits your four criteria pretty well, but this isn't the place to belabor what is horror and what's not. My point is that how the genre is defined varies, widely. I was agreeing with you.
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post #484 of 506
1/10/07 at 10:41am
Before things maybe get too far, let's keep discussion here on "The Descent". Comparing to other films and ranking it sounds like a good idea, but please do so in another thread because discussion of other movies will definitely get involved. Thanks.

larry
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post #485 of 506
1/10/07 at 11:14am
Sorry, I was getting to the point that The Descent has elements of all four sub-categories, including some others not mentioned, all of which contributes to its overall greatness.
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post #486 of 506
1/10/07 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Woa, take a deep breath or something - your brain is must be getting deprived of oxygen. That's a pretty bold statement even though you're entitled to your own opinion.

larry

Thats nice of you to allow me that since I don't know how to have anybody else's opinion.

hey, the mod says I can think what I want!
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post #487 of 506
1/10/07 at 12:34pm
Thanks to hugh, I do feel this is one heck of a film...I think he's spot on with his interpertation, and his insights have led me to rank it so high. Understand, my own contribution narrows and simplifies what hugh stated-he really opened the door to all kinds of ways to take this film.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The Descent is what happens to Sarah, as she sinks backwards on the ladder of evolution, becoming her animalistic, primal self. All the trappings of humanity and civilization have been stripped from her by the end of the film, she has gone deep into our collective unconscious, beyond the reach of ego and id, back to the ape-man state shown in 2001 when the obelisk first appeared to our ancesters..beyond morality, beyond most of the traits we consider to make us human...she is raw and feral, the ruthless predator we all came from...and how many films have tried to portray that? Rambo, James Bond, Wes Craven, even the films made from Tom Harris work...its a common theme throughout film history that to overcome evil we must first become one with it, to go to the level of the threat in order to destroy it. And thats usually portrayed as a good thing, and that after the evil is destroyed one can return to a civilizied existance and live happily ever after. The Descent says not so fast. Not only is it the best depiction of a human being reduced to a primal state(imo), it also says once we go there we may not be able, or care to, come back..Once you've lived in darkness you can't go back to the light...Its not the common hollywood theme that faced with great danger we all have the potential to turn into a Rambo type killing machine. Its more that in order to survive we might go someplace deep within ourselves where we really shouldn't go...
The creatures represent what Sarah becomes...it seems clear they were once "human" or at least had the potential to become so. Due to the harsh existance of life in the cave they either devolved into what they are, or their development was halted at some crucial point on the road to humanity. They are needed in the film to show us what Sarah has become, to give us a clue where the descent has led her...Juno also is a clue, she was well on the same path to the primal state before sarah struck her down...
And of course using terms like good and evil are no longer really relevant in speaking of sarah, its only from our civilized mindset that we make that judgement. Sacrificing juno in order to give herself a chance to escape is no more evil of sarah than a wolf killing a fawn...she has become one with nature, both her own and the outside world's...and the film makes no moral judgement of her state, leaving it up to us to debate whether what she has become is good or bad...heck, new reason possible for her smile-maybe sarah realized when the crawlies were approaching she was soon to be elected queen...there, thats my idea for the sequal...
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post #488 of 506
1/10/07 at 1:07pm
LOL, queen!

Good post. Much of it matches with my take on the movie very well. Some of it even enhances it.

I do take exception with the following...

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

There is nothing in nature that I know of that would willingly commit an act to sacrifice one of their own in order to save themselves. That it strictly a human action. If indeed the cave dwellers were real in the movie, Sarah's hobbling of Juno was willfully evil. It's not like a pack of wildebeests that don't do anything when a weaker member is left behind. They are simply indifferent. Willfully throwing one of their own "to the wolves" so to speak is beyond the capacity of an animal.
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post #489 of 506
1/10/07 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

Thats nice of you to allow me that since I don't know how to have anybody else's opinion.

hey, the mod says I can think what I want!

Hey, if you think it is one of the best (out of how many?) movies you've seen, so be it. I could have pulled a Squonk and told you how much of a moron you were for thinking that just because myself and probably some others don't think that way. It is a good movie.

larry
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post #490 of 506
1/10/07 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Hey, if you think it is one of the best (out of how many?) movies you've seen, so be it. I could have pulled a Squonk and told you how much of a moron you were for thinking that just because myself and probably some others don't think that way. It is a good movie.

larry

squonk...that's a name I could go my entire life without ever hearing or thinking about again.

Last post was 3/27/06...what happened to him?

Finally booted from here? Moved to a more volitile forum? Picked on the wrong guy in real life and got his arse kicked? Took some chill pills and doesn't post anymore to vent rage? Came to love all the Whos down in Whoville and his heart grew 3 sizes?
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post #491 of 506
1/10/07 at 5:07pm
LOL!!! I'm too lazy to go back and look, but was it you ^^^ who would mix it up with him sometimes.

larry
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post #492 of 506
1/10/07 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu_1 View Post


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

There is nothing in nature that I know of that would willingly commit an act to sacrifice one of their own in order to save themselves. That it strictly a human action. If indeed the cave dwellers were real in the movie, Sarah's hobbling of Juno was willfully evil. It's not like a pack of wildebeests that don't do anything when a weaker member is left behind. They are simply indifferent. Willfully throwing one of their own "to the wolves" so to speak is beyond the capacity of an animal.

Monkeys who roam in groups in the wild will occasionally kill one of their own young in order to feed their group meat ( many people are unaware monkeys like the occasional bit of meat ) Ant's will also sacrifice themselves to save their queen and i think other insects which live in large groups do likewise....i believe when a new lion comes in and takes on the old pride leader and wins then all the cubs in that pride are basically sacrificed because the new leader will kill them all and then mate with the lionesses and have his own cubs loyal to him.

I think humans and animals are not that different if you strip away our so called higher intellect......deep down we're all capable of unspeakable act's it's just that most of us control ourselves and never let the primitive part of our brain control us although how many people have allowed anger to rear it's ugly head or have felt jealousy or rage even while stuck in a driving jam......it happens even to humans and we're not that different to the animal kingdom.

The Descent's a fine horror film and i'm glad people are discussing other possibilities it'll make me re-evaluate the film when i next watch it.
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post #493 of 506
1/10/07 at 5:59pm
I think everybody messed with him sometimes, right? But hey, sometimes he posted some pretty good stuff, he just got overly excited when anyone disagreed with him.
Larry, to clarify...I donj't know if anyone else does this, but I kind of have two different frameworks when I watch a film. One is me trying to be a high faluting, objective viewer pretending to be a film critic, and as such judging a film on an intellectual basis. The other is what hits home personally, and that is more of an emotional response. The intellect only gets involved after, when I try to come up with some high faluting reasons why I like a film so much.
Example: A lot of folks say Citizen Kane is the greatest film of all time. I can fully accept and understand that. I might even say that for most of the world it might be the greatest.(and you can substitue The Rules of the Game, or Grand Illusion, etc., the point is the same.) But in my secret heart I'm still gonna believe Casablanca is better, as well as The Maltese Falcon. I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion and life's too short to worry about it. But on that kind of secret pleasure list, The Descent is right up there, along with the two I just mentioned. And they're all just below Knightriders...
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post #494 of 506
1/10/07 at 6:18pm
Top 10 Reasons The Descent isn't like other cookie-cutter horror films:

10. Some chick doesn't stumble/fall and get caught...oh wait.

9. The victims aren't in some desolate place...oh wait.

8. The setting isn't dark and ominous...oh wait.

7. The thing that's stalking them doesn't seem superhuman..oh wait.

6. There aren't any hot chicks in the film...oh wait.

5. There aren't any "boo factor" moments...oh wait.

4. Things always make sense...oh wait.

3. There isn't any drinking...oh wait.

2. The ending doesn't show just one survivor...oh wait, maybe?

1. There's no significant T & A irrelevant to the film. Dammit! Why does this have to be the only one that's true?

And that, dear friends, is yet another reason The Descent is so darned good (with the exception of #1). It follows all the classic rules of a horror film, then proceeds to stretch and break those rules to its own achievement.

As an aside, for those of you that never had the "pleasure" of being the victim of squonk's wrath, imagine a slightly meaner, uglier, testier, nastier crawler, and you''ll have it spot on. Hell, even Larry remembers him after all this time, even with all us other members he has to keep a leash on! Evil, thy name is squonk.
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post #495 of 506
1/10/07 at 11:06pm
I don't think we've heard from him since he went caving with those hot chicks he met online... hmm, I think I have the sequel...
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post #496 of 506
1/10/07 at 11:15pm
Good points about animals, Foxy. I remember a lab I had as a kid giving birth to more puppies than it could feed. It had killed two of them before my dad and I realized what was going on and got them away...man, I haven't thought of that in years.
But ktulu you also have a good point in that what happened in the film probably would only occur with the human animal.
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post #497 of 506
1/14/07 at 12:11am
Wow. After watching this movie tonight, I have to say I'm completely mystified as to all the praise that's been heaped upon it. (And, yes, I've read every post in this thread).

I can't say that any of the characters were likeable. Sure, Sarah was sympathetic, but we didn't really get to know any of the others beyond the mostly superficial and stereotypical portrayals. It didn't help that the way the movie was shot made it difficult to tell who was who at various points.

I will give it credit for creating a very claustrophobic feel, but that disappeared as an element half way through the movie, giving way to standard horror-movie chase sequences.

I'll also give it some credit for
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
not having one of the cave creatures hiding in the back of the truck at the end of the movie.
As to the themes present in the movie, I just don't see it. If they are meant to be there, they were either too poorly realized, or too pointless to be meaningful. I'd have an easier time accepting the ending as something that was sloppily grafted on, simply to make it appear to be more than just a "horror" movie.

To each his own, I guess.

Scott
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post #498 of 506
1/14/07 at 9:35am
Exactly, Scott. It would be pretty boring if we all liked the same things.
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post #499 of 506
1/17/07 at 8:16pm
I just bought the Region 1 Original Unrated DVD and watched it...again, I loved it...its still good the second time (and scary)

Gag real.......hilarious....Sarah and Beth kiss (in case you didn't know)
Descending...Neil Marshall explains what he meant about the ending...its quite simple...US market tested better with the shortened ending so Lionsgate used that one. UK ending was shown to the rest of the World because they aren't dumb like Americans...he tries to explain that both endings are suitable, but you can just tell he's lying through his teeth to make Lionsgate happy...the original ending is more fulfilling and cleaner...
Behind the Scenes....awesome.....looks like the cast and crew had a great time making the film...really funny stuff
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post #500 of 506
1/19/07 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

Wow. After watching this movie tonight, I have to say I'm completely mystified as to all the praise that's been heaped upon it. (And, yes, I've read every post in this thread).

I can't say that any of the characters were likeable. ...

Scott

Couldn't agree more. I bought this blind due to all the praise and wish I hadn't, rental at best.
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post #501 of 506
1/24/07 at 6:24pm
Just watched the movie, yet again. On BD this time. Looked superb! The mark of a good movie is repeat factor. I've watched this movie about 5 times in the last 6 months and can watch it all the way through. BTW, it's on HD OnDemand on Comcast. Don't know if it's OAR (for $6 rental it better be) or DD 5.1 or not (either).

larry
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post #502 of 506
1/24/07 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Just watched the movie, yet again. On BD this time. Looked superb! The mark of a good movie is repeat factor. I've watched this movie about 5 times in the last 6 months and can watch it all the way through. BTW, it's on HD OnDemand on Comcast. Don't know if it's OAR (for $6 rental it better be) or DD 5.1 or not (either).

larry

damn I was hoping it was one of those free HD On-Demand...I ain't shelling $6 for that...
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post #503 of 506
1/25/07 at 4:20am
You might want to check over in the HDTV programming forum where I saw this mentioned. Maybe somebody has seen it and comments on the presentation.

larry
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post #504 of 506
1/25/07 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

Top 10 Reasons The Descent isn't like other cookie-cutter horror films:

10. Some chick doesn't stumble/fall and get caught...oh wait.

9. The victims aren't in some desolate place...oh wait.

8. The setting isn't dark and ominous...oh wait.

7. The thing that's stalking them doesn't seem superhuman..oh wait.

6. There aren't any hot chicks in the film...oh wait.

5. There aren't any "boo factor" moments...oh wait.

4. Things always make sense...oh wait.

3. There isn't any drinking...oh wait.

2. The ending doesn't show just one survivor...oh wait, maybe?

1. There's no significant T & A irrelevant to the film. Dammit! Why does this have to be the only one that's true?

And that, dear friends, is yet another reason The Descent is so darned good (with the exception of #1). It follows all the classic rules of a horror film, then proceeds to stretch and break those rules to its own achievement.

As an aside, for those of you that never had the "pleasure" of being the victim of squonk's wrath, imagine a slightly meaner, uglier, testier, nastier crawler, and you''ll have it spot on. Hell, even Larry remembers him after all this time, even with all us other members he has to keep a leash on! Evil, thy name is squonk.


i suppose that's the difference between a good script/direction and a bad/hacked one. sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
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post #505 of 506
1/25/07 at 6:12pm
now available on 360 marketplace in hd
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post #506 of 506
1/26/07 at 6:27pm
Good horror flick. I just saw it for the first time (unrated theatrical version with the UK ending) on conventional DVD. The US ending is part of the Special Features if you wish to compare them.

Gary
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