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Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD - First End User Reports! - Page 13

post #361 of 5103
Quote:


but again it is standard verbiage: if you can avoid intervention of the scaler, you are best setting the output res to that of the disc to match the NR of the display if possible: that would always be the optimal setting if available

I do not see your interpretation in that paragraph. If that's what they mean, they have a really poor writer.

The thing is, it is telling you that if you want high definition output, you MUST set the output to match the resolution of the DISC. Whether that is reality, that is what it says. It isn't my interpretation. I think that would be pretty funky if it's true, but it could explain why everyone so far has said that 1080i looks better than 720p. I'm pretty sure people with native 720p displays have posted that they've achieved better results outputting 1080i, haven't they? That section of the manual may explain why.

I think everyone should check it out and read it carefully. It may be important. Again, it may also just be poorly written.

The first sententce (hope this is ok) - "To achieve high definition output when playing high definition material, it is necessary to set the output resolution of the player to match the native resolution of the disc."

Notice the word "display" is nowhere in that sentence. And since 720p isn't the native resolution of any of the discs... That is essentially an addendum to what is on page 21/22, probably added later, I'd assume.
post #362 of 5103
This thread is moving too fast! By the time I'm done writing my long winded response, there are two others that beat me to it!
post #363 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesMoss View Post

Read it again. Its telling you to set the output to match disc content regardless of the native res of the display. Thats not the "standard verbiage".

Is your display 720 or 1080?

From real experience with this player, I would say it is meant to match the disc resolution, 1080i, at least that's the resolution that looks best on my 720p native display.
post #364 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by housecor View Post

Good point. Also, I'm not sure everyone is seeing "fair" comparisons between DVD and HD-DVD yet. Two reasons:
1. Many here are comparing the 1-3 currently available selections to what they consider their "reference" for SD-DVD quality. Remember, the first DVD's released didn't look nearly as impressive as today's releases, HD-DVD may very well be the same. Perhaps dusting off an old DVD will give HD-DVD's young technology a fairer fight.

2. Do we even know for sure that the 3 HD-DVD's currently out there were remastered from the original source? Could it be that these are just mediocre upconverts? If so, the only PQ advantage they would hold is utilization of the larger HD color space. This would certainly explain the generally lukewarm impressions I'm reading so far.

I am still waiting for a comparison with D-VHS
post #365 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Got the player! Got Phantom (DD TrUE) Got things set up in a true analog pass through on my MC-12, my calibrator is emailing down a custom bass software file to input into my DSP for this player. Set up should be ideal for audio and video! Can't wait to run it!!

I can't seem to say the right things to get a disc . I'm sitting here with a player and ....................

Art
post #366 of 5103
Just picked up my A1 at Best Buy this morning. Was there at around 10:30... they hadn't gotten any. The guy actually took my name and number. Wife and I went out shopping and about 1/2 hour later he called. Ran back over and picked one up. They got 3... 1 was a demo. I walked out with 1 so they had one more to sell.

This is almost as crazy as the 360 launch.
post #367 of 5103
This is rediculous. I am way to jealous. Why do I have to have this stupid xbox 360? Anyone have a clue as to when the hd-dvd drive is being released for 360? Tempted to put it all on ebay and run out and buy an A1. Keeps the reviews coming guys! ...... btw serenity = amazing lovin
post #368 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonJF View Post

I do not see your interpretation in that paragraph. If that's what they mean, they have a really poor writer. ... That is essentially an addendum to what is on page 21/22, probably added later, I'd assume.

And why would they add an addendum with "standard verbiage"?

I think they discovered the problem after design was finalized.

They could recover by just adding a pass thru mode in a software update.
post #369 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by housecor View Post

Good point. Also, I'm not sure everyone is seeing "fair" comparisons between DVD and HD-DVD yet. Two reasons:
1. Many here are comparing the 1-3 currently available selections to what they consider their "reference" for SD-DVD quality. Remember, the first DVD's released didn't look nearly as impressive as today's releases, HD-DVD may very well be the same. Perhaps dusting off an old DVD will give HD-DVD's young technology a fairer fight.

2. Do we even know for sure that the 3 HD-DVD's currently out there were remastered from the original source? Could it be that these are just mediocre upconverts? If so, the only PQ advantage they would hold is utilization of the larger HD color space. This would certainly explain the generally lukewarm impressions I'm reading so far.

EDIT> I saw the unit at BB and was pretty impressed by the build quality. Very heavy! The remote is really slick looking to my eyes, but at the expense of function.

You would think they would want their first 3 releases to be the best pq possible to try and push this new format.
So far my opinon is it's just a small step forward.
Guess we can wait for SBHD-DVD.
post #370 of 5103
For whatever reason, when using the SPDIF or Toslink digital inputs, my HDA1 sees DTS on Phantom. However, there is no DTS on Phantom. When I putin a regular DVD, the processor (Lexicon MC12) picks up the DD signal right away. Pop Phantom back in and DTS comes up (and I can't switch it to DD).

1. Either the Lexicon is seeing something it doesn't like in the bitstream (Lex bug)
2. I have a defective HD DVD
3. ?

I am going to exchange Phantom. Unfortunately, it is the only HD DVD I bought.

The sound is thin when playing Phantom and lower in output but when I threw in the regular DVD, all was fine.

Not sure what to do short of exchanging disc.


And boy does this piece boot up sloooooowwwwwww!
post #371 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I can't seem to say the right things to get a disc . I'm sitting here with a player and ....................

Art

$$ might be the right words
post #372 of 5103
I am using Component Output ... so I don't know how much of this applies to you HDMI folks.

Store dvds play at 480p over component output ... to me it looks just like standard 480p output.

Recorded dvds play at 1080i over component output ... to me it looks "just below" the quality of DVHS (I have one of those also) ... but not as good as broadcast quality HD.

The optical output sounds as good as DVHS tapes for 5.1. My DVHS player doesn't play DTS, so I can't compare; but DTS output sounds very good to my ears.

Am I glad I purchased this player? You bet your life!! Bring on the HD-DVDs! If the picture quality grows exponentially like it has from 480i to 480p to 1080i (upscaled) then whoop! whoop!
post #373 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by absolutic View Post

I am still waiting for a comparison with D-VHS

Ken Ross and I were talking about this: early take is that HD-DVD is at least as good and probably better: and no head wear

so you don't have to worry how many times you play a disc or worry about dropouts

Optical discs will be the final blow to D-VHS : now if I could buy an optical disc of the Japan demo tape: WOW!
post #374 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaxx View Post

From real experience with this player, I would say it is meant to match the disc resolution, 1080i, at least that's the resolution that looks best on my 720p native display.

thaxx,

I completely agree with you. I have a Panasonic AE900 720p projector, and the 1080i output of the HD-A1 looks better on it than the 720p output of the HD-A1.
post #375 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I can't seem to say the right things to get a disc . I'm sitting here with a player and ....................

Art

In the same boat as you Art, you would think that selling the HD disc of the SD disc that have been out for years would be a no brainer. Till Tuesday.....
post #376 of 5103
I authored an HD-DVD using Ulead with a few mpeg2 ts HD demos, one is pioneer and the other is a demo loop of NY and Paris from Astra Satellite. Now I just gotta wait for my player
post #377 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaxx View Post

You would think they would want their first 3 releases to be the best pq possible to try and push this new format.
So far my opinon is it's just a small step forward.

Compared to what? DVD? That's impossible. If it matches D-VHS (and it must) it's a big step forward.
post #378 of 5103
Called my local BB and they had it in stock. I am Mr. Cumpulsive buyer and I get very excited and off I went...

They had it hooked up to one of those Sony SXRD projection units. I am just not crazy about this display. I wished it were connected to a Plasma. I thought the Picture was very very nice in some scenes and average in others. This was "The Last Samurai".

The unit got some kind of error message once while playing. Something like HDMI error or HDMI cable error or something like that. The kid went behind the player and played with the cable for a minute or so and it came back.

WOW!! What a menu on these HD Disks. I never imagined there would be so many extras to view. The problem I had with this unit is I had to really point the remote right at the player. I also had a hard time in some places navigating through the extras menu. I had to push the execute/enter button very hard and sometimes multiple times to get the cursor to move around the screen.

They had the unit tied down on the shelf for some reason but the unit did not seem like it was very heavy to me.

I have a Pioneer Elite 59AVi and it is such a quality unit. I just did not get this feeling of quality from the Toshiba.

I know Technologies change and this Player is a blessing but I think I will sit tight and see what the other Manufacturers bring out.

The trailer for "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" looked great.

I am glad my compulsive drive settled down and I came to my senses on this one.

Rick
post #379 of 5103
Boy this thread is growing fast. Is anyone watching movies yet? I posted some updates about the audio in the Answers to HD-A1 and HD-XA1 Audio Questions thread that I started some time ago. It may answer some of the questions asked here but I haven't read everything.

Thanks to Robert for posting the whole manual. Attached are some scans of items I don't think have been posted yet. Two are the front and back of an insert with last minute updates to the manual. The other is the "Important Firmware Update Information" card, which essentially says you will need updates and if you can't download them you can request a disc from Toshiba.

 

HD-A1 Update Info page 1.pdf 77.1435546875k . file

 

HD-A1 Update Info page 2.pdf 82.98046875k . file

 

HD-A1 Firmware Update Info.pdf 64.8359375k . file
post #380 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by absolutic View Post

It would be very helful to hear opinion of those 'jaded' with years of HD cable/satellite/over-they-year experience and those with D-VHS decks. How does it compare?

Exactly.I'm not buying unless it looks "as good" as D-theater.Anything less is unacceptable.
post #381 of 5103
Just got back from a 5 hour jaunt around town to view this. Could not get a single store to sell me any titles

Onto some observations...In two places I was fortunate to have the saleperson(who was equally interested as I) to move the player around. Store #1(BB) had it orginally setup on a 42 Westy playing Phantom of the Opera. The pricture was grainy, washed out and unimpressive in any way. I wandered back over to the higher end displays and was looking at the Bravia and Pioneer elite (which were next to each other). He asked if I wanted to see the player hooked up to these...YES, of course.

As we were moving the player - stopped at the samsung 1080p 56incher and I wondered out loud "how this would look". A few minutes later we were hooked up passing 1080i via HDMI into the Sammy. Significantly better than the Westy. Not wow, but really good PQ. My parents happen to have this set and it was pretty well adjusted as I meandered through the PQ options. We played a bit more - but while the colors appeared richer...and it was a VERY clean picture...it wasn't "WOW". Just really good.

Onto the Bravia...which was playing the same feed as the 930 elite next to it. I mention this because both displays looked darn good. I certainly would give the edge to the 930 - but the Bravia was pretty impressive. Probably the best I have ever seen one look.

Player gets hooked up and off we go to the same scenes we had previously been viewing. (BTW - the menus sytem is pretty cool!). This was another giant step up from the prior two displays. At this point I would say"punchier" than the Sammy, light years better than the Westy with tons of detail. I finally was getting impressed. We now had a "crowd" watching. We played for around 20-30 minutes and while I wouldn't say it was better than some of the best calibrated sets playing movies I have ever seen (Qualia, etc). It was very, very good and for a 500 player - held its own against some very expensive players on the market - at least with the HD material. We then tried LOTR and upconverted. Very clean - although I now detected the shrotcomings of the bravia with is lower contrst and black levels. STill as good as I have seen many of the upconverting players(Oppe , S97 etc).

Finally moved the player over to the 930. Played the same scenes and quite frankly - WOW - finally happened. It was breathtaking, detail like you had never seen, beautiful whites, immsersive color and detail. Just outstanding. I have seen this display setup with some really good players - Denon 5910, marantz etc - and to my recollection - NOTHING looked as good as this. It simply caused every display around it - showing a darn nice 1080i feed - to pale.

I won't bore you with the rest of my journey - but I ended up seeing all 3 titles (ones I could NOT buy - UGH) played. Serenity - IMHO - was the weakest of the transfers - with Phantom and Samurai being very good to excellent.

Clearly - what display they were being played on had everything to do with how well they looked. While in the past DVD players has some dependence on display etc for PQ. My opionion is that this player is going to end up with very different reviews predicated upon the display. Saw it a few more times on both the Westy (the fav BB seems to use) and the Sammy, as well as on the new Panny 50incher.

What it did answer in my mind - would it be worth it if you had 720/768 p panel - or is 1080p mandatory....For a very good panel - yes - I believe it would be worth it - for some of the others - nope. And interestingly enough the true 1080p panel was the weakest of all that I saw today.

Therese
post #382 of 5103
Could some people be reporting 1080i looks better on their 720p tv because most 720p type tvs are actually 768p, and setting the player to 720p means the tv is upscaling, and downscaling 1080i results in a slightly higher res picture? I have a Sony 55inch 55xs955, which is 768p, but wouldn't choosing 1080i have the worse trade off on having to deinterlace?

Also, heres some picks, no HD-DVD movies, the Best Buy employees wouldn't sell them, something about losing their jobs and blah, not that big of a deal

Front with remote on top:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/TimothyB//hda1_1.jpg

Back of the unit:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/TimothyB//hda1_2.jpg

Close shot of remote with plastic still on:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/TimothyB//hda1_3.jpg

Macro of 5.1 and 2ch analog outs:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/TimothyB//hda1_4.jpg
post #383 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesMoss View Post

Page number as reported by the PDF reader. Not the one with 64 printed on it.

Look 2 pages further on.

Relevant text attached

Thats pretty stupid of Toshiba in this regard. My Mitsubishi Diamond WS-65813 will NOT take a 720p from anything other than an OTA signal. 720p fed to any jacks are simply not recognized. I think 1080i for all material will be fine though.
post #384 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgibson View Post

I'm with you Larry, before I plunk down my $500+ I need to know:

Read the first end user takes on the early released Toshiba HD-DVD player
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=667248
and was wondering if my Infocus SP4805 can display High Def (1080i) thru the M1 connector to the Toshiba HD-DVD HDM1 output. Will this do the trick?

http://store.infocus.com/escalate/st...name=&tab=desc

And a 25ft HDMI-HDMI cable?

TIA,
sgibson

As I posted in: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=667498

Larry...anyone?
post #385 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonJF View Post

The thing is, it is telling you that if you want high definition output, you MUST set the output to match the resolution of the DISC. Whether that is reality, that is what it says. It isn't my interpretation. I think that would be pretty funky if it's true, but it could explain why everyone so far has said that 1080i looks better than 720p. I'm pretty sure people with native 720p displays have posted that they've achieved better results outputting 1080i, haven't they? That section of the manual may explain why.

This does seem to be the case. If it's mandatory for HD output to match the output resolution of the DVD player to that of the disc, why in Heaven's name didn't they write some code into the operation software to recognize and do this automatically??
Future update perhaps?
post #386 of 5103
Quote:


Last Samurai:
VC-1: 1080P, 18 Mbps avg, 24 Mbps peak
Dolby Digital-Plus: English 5.1, 640 Kbps 16 bit/48 kHz

Phantom:
VC-1: 1080P, 15 Mbps avg, 21 Mbps peak
Dolby True HD: English 5.1, 1.6 Mbps average and 3 Mbps peak, 16 bit/48 kHz
Dolby Digital-Plus: English 5.1, 640 Kbps 16 bit/48 kHz

Serenity:
VC-1: 1080p, 16 Mbps avg, 24 Mbps peak
Dolby Digital Plus: English 5.1, 1.5 Mbps, 16 bit/48 kHz

I'm wondering what these movies would look like on my Sceptre 37' 1080p monitor. Someone mentioned that they saw it playing back content on a Westinghouse 1080p monitor but it appears it was only a SD-DVD. I guess I'll pass on being an early adopter this time.

BTW, I'm pretty sure someone will find a way to drop this drive into a PC and write some drivers for it. It sounds like it's pretty much a a PC-HD-DVD rom dropped into a low end motherboard with 1gb ddr.
post #387 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth View Post

I think 1080i for all material will be fine though.

Today yes, but what happens when you buy a 720p disc? We will not know until such discs are available.
post #388 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

For whatever reason, when using the SPDIF or Toslink digital inputs, my HDA1 sees DTS on Phantom. However, there is no DTS on Phantom. When I putin a regular DVD, the processor (Lexicon MC12) picks up the DD signal right away. Pop Phantom back in and DTS comes up (and I can't switch it to DD).

1. Either the Lexicon is seeing something it doesn't like in the bitstream (Lex bug)
2. I have a defective HD DVD
3. ?

I am going to exchange Phantom. Unfortunately, it is the only HD DVD I bought.

The sound is thin when playing Phantom and lower in output but when I threw in the regular DVD, all was fine.

Not sure what to do short of exchanging disc.


And boy does this piece boot up sloooooowwwwwww!

I'm seeing the same thing with a Denon 3805 using the optical connection, it shows it as DTS, cannot get DD to display at all. My guess is the output of the HD-A1 is different enough that the receiver thinks it's DTS. Odd...
post #389 of 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

Compared to what? DVD? That's impossible. If it matches D-VHS (and it must) it's a big step forward.

Well, yes, some dvd's like 5th Element, The Fast and the Furious, and I'm sure others.
What I meant mostly was brodcast HD on Directv lite.
I have fliped back and forth several times between HD-DVD and Directv HD and in almost ever case the brodcast TV looks better.
For instance, right now HDNET has Art Mann presents on , and it is MUCH better than the Serenety HD disc is.
Some are about the same.
I was expecting better quality than Directv HD quality.
post #390 of 5103
Heh, or just hope that all material stays 1080p and be done with it! Wishful thinking I know, but with me and other Mitsu owners of similar models, we get no 720p love.
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