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DON'T BUY 1080p TVs! - Page 2  

post #31 of 389
I again goto what i did in a post in another thread.....

basically this is all talk and speculation.

I just went from an 1120 elite pioneer. basically as sharp a picture as can be had for 1080i. I now have a 50 sxrd 1080p set. this set absolutly tears the crap out of the pioneer in every way. but the most important way for this post that is important is sharpness and clarity. It is sooooo not even close.

tell ya what...take a 720 p image and then play it on the same set but switch the set to 1080i and tell me which is clearer.....i guarantee that the 1080 upconvert will be a sharper image.....the same is true for the running the image in 1080p .

I can tell you till blue in the face but until you see it in my house and see and feel the power of a 1080p set ....you just wont get it.....

oh yeah and its sooooo worth the upgrade.
post #32 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by longshot
The first SED will be released "In the Year 2525" by Zegar and Evans :D
LOL.

In the year twenty-five twenty-five,
SED will finally arrive.

In the year twenty-five twenty-five,
Auditor will not be alive.
post #33 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr
You are forgetting one very important factor in favor of 1080p.....babes. Here in L.A. when you hit the clubs the babes used to ask how much money you made or what car you drove, well, that's in the past. Women ask what resolution you have on your video display now, thats all they care about. Once it is known in the club that you have a 1080p set, you are swarmed by adoring babes just waiting to go home with you and watch Discovery HD.
Holy Jesus, I'm moving to L.A.
post #34 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser
OK, this is all great. But you keep passing up this:

Blu-ray Disc is a new high-definition video format that offers amazing home entertainment possibilities. When the DVD format launched in 1997, Sony's first player was a high-end model that quickly set the benchmark for picture and sound quality. History repeats itself with Sony's first Blu-ray player, the BDP-S1. For videophiles eager to feed their HDTVs the highest-quality video source available, this is as good as it gets.

The BDP-S1 is one of the first video players of any type to provide true 1080p output — 1920 x 1080 pixels progressive scan, the highest HD signal output currently available.


This player is available from cruchfield. Just do a search on "bluray DVD player".

It outputs true 1080p. What the h*ll am I supposed to watch it on? Oh, wait, a 1080p TV, that's what.
Are you a marketeer for Sony and Blu-Ray? Just because a machine is capable of outputting 1080p doesn't mean you have native 1080p content to output, its vaporware.
post #35 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
I doubt if we will ever see the Superbowl broadcast in 1080p in our life time. :(
They say people with negative attitudes die sooner, so your probably right.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
There is a 1080p/24 production format in wide use for prime time TV shows and some feature films. But these programs must be converted to 1080i/30 (that’s interlaced, not progressive scan) before airing on any terrestrial, satellite, or cable TV network."
[ by Pete Putman, HDTV Expert]

In view of Mr. Putman's comment, which I completely agree with
It's 1080i/60 not /30.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
its vaporware
So is 1080p SED

We need an Ignore Button next to the Quote Button.
post #36 of 389
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
I doubt if we will ever see the Superbowl broadcast in 1080p in our life time.


They say people with negative attitudes die sooner, so your probably right.
Nice!
post #37 of 389
As others have stated the article in question is not only seriously outdated, but quite inaccurate in parts. Above all lease it completely overlooks the very real benefits a 1080p set can provide.

I just posted the below info at HD Beat (in response to a post about the same article!) but given Auditor’s unfortunate technical ignorance of the many benefits a 1080p display can deliver, I will post it again here:

---------------------------

I think the biggest misconception with 1080p is that a lot of people assume that it’s only of benefit with a 1080p signal, and then follow through with the conclusion that “if there aren’t any 1080p broadcasts why should I bother?â€. The reality is there are a LOT of benefits a 1080p screen can deliver, but some of them are only relevant if the set supports 1080p input (which many don’t yet). Thankfully it seems that most 2nd generation 1080p screens should be equipped to support 1080/60p input (and the better ones will accept 1080/24p 48p 50p and 72p as well).

As far as getting the full benefit of 1080p goes there are many things to take into account, such as seating distance and the quality of the scaling/de-interlacing to the native 1080p resolution of the screen (if using anything less than 1080p input which people obviously will be).

If a 1080p screen does support 1080p input then the following are the major benefits of a 1080p display:

1. Much better detail from both 1080i and 1080p sources like Blu-Ray (providing you sit close enough to see it).

2. The ability to accept a native 1080p signal 1:1 mapped (from Blu-Ray/2nd gen HD-DVD players/Playstation3/external scalers or a PC). Result: Zero de-interlacing/scaling artifacts (no uneven interpolation artifacts, no aliasing, better defined edges, and a sharper picture with better detail). Put simply 1080p input means there is no “margin for error†as there sometimes can be with the scaling and de-interlacing of 1080i sources.

3. 1080p input will often (but not always) mean support for the original native 24p frame rate of film sources, and if so it can apply 2:2 or 3:3 pull-down for display at 48hz or 72hz. Result: No 60hz 3:2 judder (or 4% speedup for people in 50hz countries). In other words a 100% faithful spatial and temporal reproduction of the original 1080/24p film source.

4. Compatibility with a 1080/60p signal from a PC, providing a sharper picture, less “screen door effectâ€, far better detail and lots more screen real estate.

5. Support for 1080p input from an external scaler (1:1 mapped) for high quality motion adaptive de-interlacing and scaling of all other lower quality sources. This is admittedly a niche HD enthusiast area, but given the sub-standard de-interlacing/scaling present on the majority of 1080p displays in the US at the moment, this can be a very big advantage down the track for those wanting to get the best possible image quality out of their display. Keep in mind if a 1080p set doesn’t support 1080p input, then you’re limited to the de-interlacing/scaling capabilities of the display (when dealing with a 1080i signal) for it’s entire lifetime.

6. Many 720p/768p/1080p displays currently use bob de-interlacing for all 1080i input, meaning you are only getting up-scaled 540p at all times, with the addition of aliasing (jagged edges), shimmer, line twitter and the moiré effect from bob interpolation. 1080p input on 1080p display gives you full 1080 line resolution with no interlacing/interpolation artifacts. However any good 1080p display should definitely also feature weave de-interlacing (for film sources) and in the best case scenario would feature motion adaptive 1080i de-interlacing (for native interlaced 1080i video sources such as sport). Good 1080i de-interlacing is rare on current 1080p displays, but the situation is improving.

7. Compatibility with any future native 1080/60p devices such as Playstation 3.

8. Put simply 1080p input means your display will fully resolve all recognised HD formats on the planet at maximum resolution and detail!

It’s worth noting that most of the above is currently “niche†HD enthusiast stuff, and wouldn’t be noticed by many regular consumers. It’s also generally accepted that you have to sit very close to a 1080p screen less than 60†to perceive the full level of detail difference over a good 720p/768p screen.

The most importance thing with a 1080p screen is to make sure it has proper weave de-interlacing for 1080i film sources (or even better motion adaptive 1080i de-interlacing!), and that it accepts 1080p input. Not to mention you should still look for all the typical important image quality factors such as black level, colour rendition and response time. People often get caught up on raw resolution, and its important to remember that a 768p display with good processing and black level will often look better than a 1080p display with poor black level and processing. Resolution isn’t everything! However all else being equal 1080p is king :)
post #38 of 389
So it sounds like we should wait until 1080p becomes more commonplace.
post #39 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
1080P , truthfully speaking is pretty much marketing hype, especially since no native 1080p content exist. I doubt if we will ever see the Superbowl broadcast in 1080p in our life time. :(

1080p was designed specifically for hobbyist like us here, where having the latest and greatest, and being the first kid on the block with the new toy is all that really matters.

I have yet to see any kind of controlled comparison test between 720p and 1080p sets.
imo i don't think the unavailability of native 1080p content now, should stop anyone from getting a 1080p display even if 1080p content never appears. the most widely used format is 1080i which is, imo better displayed on a display that is capable of displaying the full 1080 lines. and i have seen a 720p next to a 1080p display(displaying the same content) and imo the 1080 simply beat the 720p display hands down
post #40 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseased Chicken
As others have stated the article in question is not only seriously outdated, but quite inaccurate in parts. Above all lease it completely overlooks the very real benefits a 1080p set can provide.

I just posted the below info at HD Beat (in response to a post about the same article!) but given Auditor’s unfortunate technical ignorance of the many benefits a 1080p display can deliver, I will post it again here:

---------------------------

I think the biggest misconception with 1080p is that a lot of people assume that it’s only of benefit with a 1080p signal, and then follow through with the conclusion that “if there aren’t any 1080p broadcasts why should I bother?â€. The reality is there are a LOT of benefits a 1080p screen can deliver, but some of them are only relevant if the set supports 1080p input (which many don’t yet). Thankfully it seems that most 2nd generation 1080p screens should be equipped to support 1080/60p input (and the better ones will accept 1080/24p 48p 50p and 72p as well).

As far as getting the full benefit of 1080p goes there are many things to take into account, such as seating distance and the quality of the scaling/de-interlacing to the native 1080p resolution of the screen (if using anything less than 1080p input which people obviously will be).

If a 1080p screen does support 1080p input then the following are the major benefits of a 1080p display:

1. Much better detail from both 1080i and 1080p sources like Blu-Ray (providing you sit close enough to see it).

2. The ability to accept a native 1080p signal 1:1 mapped (from Blu-Ray/2nd gen HD-DVD players/Playstation3/external scalers or a PC). Result: Zero de-interlacing/scaling artifacts (no uneven interpolation artifacts, no aliasing, better defined edges, and a sharper picture with better detail). Put simply 1080p input means there is no “margin for error†as there sometimes can be with the scaling and de-interlacing of 1080i sources.

3. 1080p input will often (but not always) mean support for the original native 24p frame rate of film sources, and if so it can apply 2:2 or 3:3 pull-down for display at 48hz or 72hz. Result: No 60hz 3:2 judder (or 4% speedup for people in 50hz countries). In other words a 100% faithful spatial and temporal reproduction of the original 1080/24p film source.

4. Compatibility with a 1080/60p signal from a PC, providing a sharper picture, less “screen door effectâ€, far better detail and lots more screen real estate.

5. Support for 1080p input from an external scaler (1:1 mapped) for high quality motion adaptive de-interlacing and scaling of all other lower quality sources. This is admittedly a niche HD enthusiast area, but given the sub-standard de-interlacing/scaling present on the majority of 1080p displays in the US at the moment, this can be a very big advantage down the track for those wanting to get the best possible image quality out of their display. Keep in mind if a 1080p set doesn’t support 1080p input, then you’re limited to the de-interlacing/scaling capabilities of the display (when dealing with a 1080i signal) for it’s entire lifetime.

6. Many 720p/768p/1080p displays currently use bob de-interlacing for all 1080i input, meaning you are only getting up-scaled 540p at all times, with the addition of aliasing (jagged edges), shimmer, line twitter and the moiré effect from bob interpolation. 1080p input on 1080p display gives you full 1080 line resolution with no interlacing/interpolation artifacts. However any good 1080p display should definitely also feature weave de-interlacing (for film sources) and in the best case scenario would feature motion adaptive 1080i de-interlacing (for native interlaced 1080i video sources such as sport). Good 1080i de-interlacing is rare on current 1080p displays, but the situation is improving.

7. Compatibility with any future native 1080/60p devices such as Playstation 3.

8. Put simply 1080p input means your display will fully resolve all recognised HD formats on the planet at maximum resolution and detail!

It’s worth noting that most of the above is currently “niche†HD enthusiast stuff, and wouldn’t be noticed by many regular consumers. It’s also generally accepted that you have to sit very close to a 1080p screen less than 60†to perceive the full level of detail difference over a good 720p/768p screen.

The most importance thing with a 1080p screen is to make sure it has proper weave de-interlacing for 1080i film sources (or even better motion adaptive 1080i de-interlacing!), and that it accepts 1080p input. Not to mention you should still look for all the typical important image quality factors such as black level, colour rendition and response time. People often get caught up on raw resolution, and its important to remember that a 768p display with good processing and black level will often look better than a 1080p display with poor black level and processing. Resolution isn’t everything! However all else being equal 1080p is king :)


1) Why would the the global TV buying public want to spend over 3k for so-called 1080p set only to turn around and spend probably more for an external scaler just to take andvantage of 1080p inputs.

2) Why would the global TV set buying public want to spend over 3k on 1080p set if there isn't any 1080p native content 1080p/60 via, broadcast, cable of satellite. The masses of folks don't buy TV's for prerecorded conent i.e. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, two formats that's not guaranteed to succeed.

3) As far as Playstation 3 goes, most people who buy those game console (young people) don't give a rats behind about 1080p, more than likely they will be connecting it up to a standard definition set. Just like Xbox 360, I doubt that most of the people that purchased them did so because they are capable of outputting a HD signal.

4) Most people in the know, that is HD Experts, will tell you that 1080p is of some benefit on screen sizes about 60 inches and above sitting at a certain distance. Who really wants to sit 9 feet from 60 inch set, with the exception of some AVS'ers, not most people. If you have big 60 inch TV in your living sitting at 9 feet more than likely its not going to fit in with the room decor, its going look to awkard and out of place. With a 50 inch set, unless you are sitting 6 to 7 feet away, you are not going to see the advantages of 1080p over 720p. Do you really want to sit that close to your set? Some do, but I would argue most do not.

5) How many people have been subjected to any type of controlled comparison test between 720p and 1080p set/content.

I would predict that at least for the next 10 years 90-95% of the content viewed on your TV, 720p, 1080i or 1080p sets will be 720p or 1080i based. You won't see any significant native 1080p/60 conent within that time if ever. External Scalers don't count because that's not native 1080p.

DO TO THE IMPENDING FORMAT WAR, THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT BLU-RAY OR HD-DVD WILL SUCCEED!!

If you are going to get a 1080p set get one with a good deinterlacer and scaler because 90-95% of the content viewed will need to be scaled and properly deinterlaced.
post #41 of 389
Those are some very good points you have brought up.
post #42 of 389
If someone saw REAL 1080p would it kill them?
post #43 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
1) Why would the the global TV buying public want to spend over 3k for so-called 1080p set only to turn around and spend probably more for an external scaler just to take andvantage of 1080p inputs.

2) Why would the global TV set buying public want to spend over 3k on 1080p set if there isn't any 1080p native content 1080p/60 via, broadcast, cable of satellite. The masses of folks don't buy TV's for prerecorded conent i.e. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, two formats that's not guaranteed to succeed.

3) As far as Playstation 3 goes, most people who buy those game console (young people) don't give a rats behind about 1080p, more than likely they will be connecting it up to a standard definition set. Just like Xbox 360, I doubt that most of the people that purchased them did so because they are capable of outputting a HD signal.

4) Most people in the know, that is HD Experts, will tell you that 1080p is of some benefit on screen sizes about 60 inches and above sitting at a certain distance. Who really wants to sit 9 feet from 60 inch set, with the exception of some AVS'ers, not most people. If you have big 60 inch TV in your living sitting at 9 feet more than likely its not going to fit in with the room decor, its going look to awkard and out of place. With a 50 inch set, unless you are sitting 6 to 7 feet away, you are not going to see the advantages of 1080p over 720p. Do you really want to sit that close to your set? Some do, but I would argue most do not.

5) How many people have been subjected to any type of controlled comparison test between 720p and 1080p set/content.

I would predict that at least for the next 10 years 90-95% of the content viewed on your TV, 720p, 1080i or 1080p sets will be 720p or 1080i based. You won't see any significant native 1080p/60 conent within that time if ever. External Scalers don't count because that's not native 1080p.

DO TO THE IMPENDING FORMAT WAR, THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT BLU-RAY OR HD-DVD WILL SUCCEED!!

If you are going to get a 1080p set get one with a good deinterlacer and scaler because 90-95% of the content viewed will need to be scaled and properly deinterlaced.
Please join me in the "let's argue" thread for a throw down. I'm sick of all this passive aggressive latent homosexuality, or whatever it is that motivates you to regurgitate irrelevant crap.

Arguing with you is an excercise in chasing the Red Herring. It's like if someone says, "Hey, I'm not entirely sure that 2 + 2 = 4," you respond with "Oh yeah? Well Joe Six pack can't add, so why should anyone care?"

Or if someone says, "Hey, only Joe Six Pack's opinion matters!" you respond with "Joe Six Pack doesn't know a thing about black level and the power of a good nine-inch CRT." Wink-wink.

Someone says, "Black". You say, "White."


Pointless.

Why don't we do the world a favor and just insult each other's momma's. Or perhaps you'd like to kiss me?

Let me get my lip balm out. I expect your lips are dry and chapped, and quite possibly covered in cold sores.

P.S.

Just what the hell are you AUDITING anyway? Happiness?

P.P.S.

Whether or not any of your arguments have merit is NOT the point. The point is that your agenda is argument, disagreement, and disharmony.
post #44 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy
Please join me in the "let's argue" thread for a throw down. I'm sick of all this passive aggressive latent homosexuality, or whatever it is that motivates you to regurgitate irrelevant crap.

Arguing with you is an excercise in chasing the Red Herring. It's like if someone says, "Hey, I'm not entirely sure that 2 + 2 = 4," you respond with "Oh yeah? Well Joe Six pack can't add, so why should anyone care?"

Or if someone says, "Hey, only Joe Six Pack's opinion matters!" you respond with "Joe Six Pack doesn't know a thing about black level and the power of a good nine-inch CRT." Wink-wink.

Someone says, "Black". You say, "White."


Pointless.

Why don't we do the world a favor and just insult each other's momma's. Or perhaps you'd like to kiss me?

Let me get my lip balm out. I expect your lips are dry and chapped, and quite possibly covered in cold sores.

P.S.

Just what the hell are you AUDITING anyway? Happiness?

P.P.S.

Whether or not any of your arguments have merit is NOT the point. The point is that your agenda is argument, disagreement, and disharmony.
Easy there fella, this is just an A/V discussions/debate. Don't take this stuff to heart. :rolleyes:
post #45 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy
Please join me in the "let's argue" thread for a throw down. I'm sick of all this passive aggressive latent homosexuality, or whatever it is that motivates you to regurgitate irrelevant crap.

Arguing with you is an excercise in chasing the Red Herring. It's like if someone says, "Hey, I'm not entirely sure that 2 + 2 = 4," you respond with "Oh yeah? Well Joe Six pack can't add, so why should anyone care?"

Or if someone says, "Hey, only Joe Six Pack's opinion matters!" you respond with "Joe Six Pack doesn't know a thing about black level and the power of a good nine-inch CRT." Wink-wink.

Someone says, "Black". You say, "White."


Pointless.

Why don't we do the world a favor and just insult each other's momma's. Or perhaps you'd like to kiss me?

Let me get my lip balm out. I expect your lips are dry and chapped, and quite possibly covered in cold sores.

P.S.

Just what the hell are you AUDITING anyway? Happiness?

P.P.S.

Whether or not any of your arguments have merit is NOT the point. The point is that your agenda is argument, disagreement, and disharmony.
werd
post #46 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
Are you a marketeer for Sony and Blu-Ray? Just because a machine is capable of outputting 1080p doesn't mean you have native 1080p content to output, its vaporware.
You know that's not accurate. Both are fully capable of fully coding native 1080p content in a variety of ways. You can encode 1080p as 1080i you know, and reassemble full native 1080p24 frames even without 1080p output.

Calling it vaporware is at best ignorance of BRD and HD-DVD capability, and at worst willful misrepresentation of the formats.

There is also the aside issue of whether the display itself is more pleasing to watch for a variety of reason at higher resolutions, REGARDLESS of the native source content. 720p fixed-pixel displays have been a moot point for close viewing ratios for quite some time, well before any 1080p content was available. Even 480 content looks superior, and it's not because of resolution, but because of lack of display structure visibility. This is different than CRT projection where 720p is extremely capable of being fairly transparent(in terms of display structure) at close viewing ratios.
post #47 of 389
That's what's so great about this country. Free speech. Don't be so offended by what someone says. Let's just agree to disagree.
post #48 of 389
Ok i'm a troll in this thread and while interesting I do not have much to add to the debate but I had to tune in because Auditor55's comments have me laughing!
post #49 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogbuehi
That's what's so great about this country. Free speech. Don't be so offended by what someone says. Let's just agree to disagree.

I'm thinking that we can all unanimously agree that auditor is wrong and just keeps saying the same thing over and over again. How many different people does it take to tell him he is wrong before he realizes it.
post #50 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffs471
I'm thinking that we can all unanimously agree that auditor is wrong and just keeps saying the same thing over and over again. How many different people does it take to tell him he is wrong before he realizes it.
I think this auditor guy was secretly the author of that article, hence the attitude. You know, I am not as much of an expert on this stuff as a lot of people here but I can tell you that he's wrong without blinking an eye. I mean, I understand the concept of de-interlacing with or without the need for inverse telecine. It isn't THAT hard to understand, but then you've got people like this auditor guy who will argue the color of the sky. Sad, really. Maybe we should try and find him a date. ;)
post #51 of 389
Does any one know if there are any other 1080p DLP RPTV's able to do 1080p via the HDMI cable other than the HP's? Earlier this year, just after the 2006 CES, CNET mentioned that only the 2 HP's (a 58" and I think a 61") were the only 2 models. Otherwise, all other "1080p DLP RPTV's" currently available end up downconverting the 1080p signals to 1080i at best.

Thanks.
post #52 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
1) Why would the the global TV buying public want to spend over 3k for so-called 1080p set only to turn around and spend probably more for an external scaler just to take andvantage of 1080p inputs.
For someone that so strongly supports SED I do not understand why you are arguing against 1080p displays. After all that is the resolution that all SED displays are being aimed at from what I have heard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
2) Why would the global TV set buying public want to spend over 3k on 1080p set if there isn't any 1080p native content 1080p/60 via, broadcast, cable of satellite.
Auditor55, I would guess that the idea of proper de-interlacing of 1080i60 into 1080p60 did not occur to you when you made this statement. In many peoples opinion that is a good enough reason to get a 1080p display even if it doesn't support 1080p60 inputs. Of course having both is best.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
3) As far as Playstation 3 goes, most people who buy those game console (young people) don't give a rats behind about 1080p, more than likely they will be connecting it up to a standard definition set. Just like Xbox 360, I doubt that most of the people that purchased them did so because they are capable of outputting a HD signal.
Actually a USA today article indicated that around 60% of Xbox 360 owners have an HDTV and that 90% of them planned to have one within the next 6 months.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
4) Most people in the know, that is HD Experts, will tell you that 1080p is of some benefit on screen sizes about 60 inches and above sitting at a certain distance.
Auditor55, the only two figures that are important for a display in terms of viewing distance is the resolution and the image size. Whether we are talking about a 24" WUXGA computer monitor or a 120" 720p projected image the exact same calculation is used to come up with the viewing distance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
With a 50 inch set, unless you are sitting 6 to 7 feet away, you are not going to see the advantages of 1080p over 720p. Do you really want to sit that close to your set? Some do, but I would argue most do not.
Why not? No offense, but Auditor55 I get the sense that you are still thinking of viewing distance in terms of SD displays.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
5) How many people have been subjected to any type of controlled comparison test between 720p and 1080p set/content.
Most likely several or they would not have bothered to store video as 1080p24 for both Blu-ray and HD-DVD. Once again though how many objective studies have been done to compare SED with current displays?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
I would predict that at least for the next 10 years 90-95% of the content viewed on your TV, 720p, 1080i or 1080p sets will be 720p or 1080i based. You won't see any significant native 1080p/60 conent within that time if ever.
Auditor55, obviously 1080p60 content will be mainly from computers and game consoles, but you are ignoring the fact that both 1080i60 and 1080p24 video benefit from being shown on a 1080p display.
post #53 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark7pt1
Does any one know if there are any other 1080p DLP RPTV's able to do 1080p via the HDMI cable other than the HP's?
Not at the moment, but their should be many such displays released soon from several manufacturers.
post #54 of 389
I believe the Brillian LCoS has 1080p inputs.
post #55 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by locomo
I believe the Brillian LCoS has 1080p inputs.
True, but those are DVI-HDCP inputs. Technically their should be no difference between them and HDMI for video transport, but from what I have read HDMI to HDMI connections are much more likely to work.
post #56 of 389
Well I was going to defend my post after Auditor’s predictable follow up, but since the knowledgeable AVS regulars have done such as fine job I don’t think I have much need :)

All I will add to the above is that I HATE the “joe6pack argumentâ€. It’s lame and unimaginative. If we were talking about "what Joe 6 pack will notice or care about" then we wouldn’t be talking HD (of any resolution), Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, black levels, response time, compression artefacts, scaling, de-interlacing, or even basic things such as 16x9. This is an AV enthusiast website for crying out loud! Of course some of the things we care about are niche top end issues (I even specifically acknowledge this in my post!) that the general public would never notice. That’s what being a videophile is all about!

For those of that DO notice and DO care, there is absolutely no denying that a 1080p display can deliver some very real benefits that I outlined above. Even forgetting 1080p input, 1080i properly de-interlaced on a 1080p display will yield a far sharper and more detailed picture than that seen on a typical 720p display (and in addition most 720p displays use simple bob de-interlacing for 1080i, discarding a lot of vertical resolution).

As others have pointed out SED technology that Auditor is so fond of is in exactly the same “enthusiast boatâ€. Do you really think regular consumers will notice the better black level and response times of SED more than they’d notice the big jump in resolution on any 1080p set? Or do you think that when faced with a buying decision they'll just go for a washed out cheapie 720p LCD screen at half the price?
post #57 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
Are you a marketeer for Sony and Blu-Ray? Just because a machine is capable of outputting 1080p doesn't mean you have native 1080p content to output, its vaporware.
When the article was written, there was no 1080p content on the horizon; the price differential between 720p and 1080p sets was much greater; and the 1080p sets did not accept 1080p over HDMI. In April of 2006 that is no longer the state of 1080p.

* At least one major studio (Sony Pictures) maintains that ALL of its films released on will be native 1080p. "No 1080p source exists" will soon be history.

* With the release of Samsung's HLS series, the price differential between a 1080p set and (an otherwise equivalent) 720p set is down to $500.00. In a competitive marketplace, the rest of the manufacturers will have to price their 1080p models closely to their 720p models. Some have speculated that 1080p is a scam by manufacturers to push expensive units over the not so profitable 720p's. With the price differential this close, I don't see this as a valid argument. We're now seeing 61" 1080p sets in the $3000 neighborhood.

* The HP DLPs, the Samsung HLS series, and the rest of the 2006 1080p models will accept 1080p over HDMI. Whether or not this makes a noticable difference compared to properly deinterlaced 1080i I can't really say. But the "they're not really 1080p because they can't accept 1080p inout argument" is no longer valid.

With a new 1080p set and a Blu-Ray player connected by HDMI, we will have the ability to watch full 1080p - source to screen, sans upscale, sans deinterlacing - in all its glory.

It is true that the first generation Blu-Ray players are expensive; and it could take several years for the Blu-Ray/HD DVD war to play out. But prices will drop quickly, and both formats will offer 1080p output within the near future.

If I'm about to drop $3K on a new set, I don't see where it would make sense to save a few hundred bucks just because 1080p Blu-Ray is delayed by a couple of months. I would be planning on using this set for a few years, so I would want it to take full advantage of the capabilities of these new players.
post #58 of 389
I don't think everything auditor is saying is wrong. I know a total of one person that actually has a 360 connected to an HD set. Nearly everybody I ask if they even have an HD set don't even know what I'm talking about. The other comment about buying a 1080p set without 1080p material, when they can still get an HD set with a lower native resolution makes sense. Some of us AVS'ers who understand it might. But there are alot of AVS'ers that given the choice of waiting to get an HD set now at a cheaper price, or keep waiting until they can afford to get a set that natively displays a resolution that isn't available, there's a good chance they will buy the previous at a cheaper price. Then they can enjoy HD until hopefully 1080p becomes more mainstream and 1080p sets approach 1080i/720p prices. And I remember reading somewhere that 1080p output would happen with HDDVD, but not now. There's no need to take such an alarmist position with everything he's saying. It's not like he's saying 1080p is snake oil.
post #59 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogbuehi
I don't think everything auditor is saying is wrong. I know a total of one person that actually has a 360 connected to an HD set. Nearly everybody I ask if they even have an HD set don't even know what I'm talking about. The other comment about buying a 1080p set without 1080p material, when they can still get an HD set with a lower native resolution makes sense. Some of us AVS'ers who understand it might. But there are alot of AVS'ers that given the choice of waiting to get an HD set now at a cheaper price, or keep waiting until they can afford to get a set that natively displays a resolution that isn't available, there's a good chance they will buy the previous at a cheaper price. Then they can enjoy HD until hopefully 1080p becomes more mainstream and 1080p sets approach 1080i/720p prices. And I remember reading somewhere that 1080p output would happen with HDDVD, but not now. There's no need to take such an alarmist position with everything he's saying. It's not like he's saying 1080p is snake oil.
In an earlier post, auditor made this statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor
...no native 1080p content exists.
This ignores Blu-Ray (yes it does exist, and it will be commercially available within a few months), on which movies will be encoded at 1080p/24.

It also ignores the fact that HD Film Based Material *IS* Native 1080p. Those digital transfers? That's right... 1080p. These films may be broadcast in 1080i, but because the source is progressive, they can be easily deinterlaced by any 1080p set with a competent deinterlacer. The math is not hard.

The point that I was making in one of my previous posts was that 1080p is *NOT* the silver bullet, but it's not ALL HYPE either.

Auditor, on the other hand, *IS* saying that 1080p is snake oil. He said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55
1080P , truthfully speaking is pretty much marketing hype...
P.S.

Once again, I'd like to point out that whether or not Auditor makes good points is really irrelevant. His logic is a smoke screen for his attitude.

P.P.S.

My argument is limited to the intrinsic benefit of 1080p, not to commercial success/failure or popular opinion.
post #60 of 389
Earlier this week some scientists announced that they had recently discovered that men's and women's brains were indeed wired differently...

Joe Six-pack and I knew that all along.

Now that there has been an "Objective study," so does Auditor 55.....
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