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Pioneer's NEW 7th Generation Plasmas for 2006-2007 - Page 2

post #31 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

The way the specs are written for the 50 incher, it looks like the "speaker unit" is removable on the 50 incher but maybe not on the 42 incher, which only says "Built-in".

"Total Weight: PDP-427HX: 29.0 kg

Built-in speakers: Bass-reflex 2-way speaker system

------------------------------

But for the 50"

PDP-507HX: 37.4 kg* (*Including those for the display unit, speaker unit, and mounting kit)"

PDP-507HX
Dimensions: 1224 mm (W) x 795 mm (H) x 115 mm (D) (with speakers mounted)


Weight: 37.4 kg/system (Including that for the display unit, speaker units & mounting kit)


Speakers System type: Bass-reflex 2-way speaker system
Impedance: 8 ohms
Maximum input: 13W
Dimension: 1224 mm (W) x 77 mm (H) x 115 mm (D)
Weight: 2.9 kg/unit
Accessories: Mounting kit, speaker cable, etc.

Thanks Randy..




Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunorth View Post

These updated Pioneer models are significant because the new Panny PX60/600 series IMHO have gone backwards in PQ. The image is not as smooth as the 50/500 series, there is noise and skintones are just not as strong. Brightness and whites have improved but that's it, overall too many negatives. I am hoping the Pioneers dont head in the same direction, and I am really hoping the Panny 65" 1080p has the old 50/500 series processing. Cant wait to see the new Pioneers - looking for better blacks and no judder. And really interested in seeing the 50" in 1080p. The Pio vs Panny battle may move in favor of the Pio, summer will tell the tale.

Are you serious?

Maybe the user error??

Are you sure that the new 60/600 series gone down hill from Panny 7UY/8UK/500 series?? ..... or are you just making guesses.
post #32 of 4252
I also agree, the Panny's took a step back with the 60U models. Many people on the forum share the same opinion. Hopefully Pioneer will not follow the same path!
post #33 of 4252
any idea on when the Elite specs will be released, or how long after the normal line is out that they will be released?
post #34 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Fuji is a mystery at this point as to what they'll do after being acquired by Hitachi. I don't have the confidence in Hitachi like I do Pio.

I know this is off topic, but Fujitsu didn't get bought by Hitachi, just their plasma panel production lines. Fujitsu still makes it's own PDPs, it just buys the glass from the now Hitachi-owned lines that used to make its glass.
post #35 of 4252
Cheez - totally serious on the 60/600 series. I have a 42PX500U sitting in my family room and I have spent a few hours in store on the 60 series running it through the paces and I can tell you the 500 has a 'smoother' PQ. There is a degree of noise on the 60 and face tones are not as realistic or accurately rendered as on the 50/500. First impressions on the 60 are 'wow' bright and bold but once you get by the whiter 'Tide' whites you begin to see subtle PQ 'issues' that are not there on the 50. Find any store with remaining 50/500 series and do a side by side if possible with the 60. The discriminating viewer will pick out the differences. I've seen a few comments on the Forum on same but by and large it seems to be a stampede overrun by thousands about their 60/600 purchase. I note that the Forum seems to be lacking some of the critical reviews that it use to get in the past. RH weighs in from time to time, but it feels like reading consumer reports lately on the Forum. Reason I was interested in the 60 is possibly upgrading to a 58 or even the 65 1080p. At this point I am grateful that I bought the 500, may be like buying an old tube driven amplifier but I am sticking to my story that the 50/500 has the better PQ, at least to this set of eyes.
post #36 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunorth View Post

Cheez - totally serious on the 60/600 series. I have a 42PX500U sitting in my family room and I have spent a few hours in store on the 60 series running it through the paces and I can tell you the 500 has a 'smoother' PQ. There is a degree of noise on the 60 and face tones are not as realistic or accurately rendered as on the 50/500. First impressions on the 60 are 'wow' bright and bold but once you get by the whiter 'Tide' whites you begin to see subtle PQ 'issues' that are not there on the 50. Find any store with remaining 50/500 series and do a side by side if possible with the 60. The discriminating viewer will pick out the differences. I've seen a few comments on the Forum on same but by and large it seems to be a stampede overrun by thousands about their 60/600 purchase. I note that the Forum seems to be lacking some of the critical reviews that it use to get in the past. RH weighs in from time to time, but it feels like reading consumer reports lately on the Forum. Reason I was interested in the 60 is possibly upgrading to a 58 or even the 65 1080p. At this point I am grateful that I bought the 500, may be like buying an old tube driven amplifier but I am sticking to my story that the 50/500 has the better PQ, at least to this set of eyes.

Thank you sir.

I certainly don't want any more "picture noise" than what I'm used to with my 7UY. I'm spoiled.

Yes I need "that" picture quality you get with these 7UY/8UK/50/500 series. I just wanted a little brighter... but I guess you can't have everything so easy eh.

You should be a proud 500 owner! I'm proud of my 7UY. It is disappointing to hear that the Panny going down hill. Bad bad mistake.
post #37 of 4252
Hmmmmmmmmm..........


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7585999


It *seems* like Panny is acting more like Pioneer. The new pannys have stronger color and brightness compare to their past gen models. The color tones and brightnes starts high. Lowering those setting could bring the thing back to normal. This means they've got more headroom. More potential for roominess.



I think you people need to take the time and therally test these bad boys. We need some really good reviewers like Rich!, my beloved "R Harkness". I love him... There are many other good reviewers here too of course ... oh and where is D-Nice
post #38 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by soncomet View Post

Another question. Can non-elite models be calibrated just as easily by an isf calibrater as the elite models minus the better processing? Or are there other trade-offs in calibration between the elite and non-elite sets?

non-elite modes can be calibrated using ISF techniques; however, the elite has a specifi ISF mode which allows an ISF calibrator to plug their laptop into the media center, download updates, and save the ISF calibration settings. My Pioneer Elite has ISF day and night settings which is really handy. The day mode is obviously a little brighter than the night setting. I am guessing that the regular Pio would require the ISF calibration to be applied to the "user" setting.
post #39 of 4252
Interesting indeed. I will be on the lookout for these new panels. I was going to pick up the new 50" 1080p when it came out but maybe I will hold out a little longer for some reviews on these new panels.
post #40 of 4252
If you're waiting for the new line of Pioneer PDPs, then take a look at this Forbes article, which was posted today on another Pioneer-related thread.
post #41 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post

If you're waiting for the new line of Pioneer PDPs, then take a look at this Forbes article, which was posted today on another Pioneer-related thread.

Wow, thanks for sharing that info. It looks like I can stop considering the new Pioneers as this move is going to drive the priice of the new panals up instead of down. Bummer news indeed.
post #42 of 4252
Interesting, but the article seems to fly in the face of what we think we know - specifically, that Pioneer will be producing 7th generation plasma panels that will reach market in June in Japan. Maybe they meant two PDP production lines will be closed, but others will remain open? Because it said they're increasing production to 1.2 million panels...
post #43 of 4252
If Pioneer is shutting down its production lines, then why would they announce new models on April 19th ? Something does not fit here, and for Forbes to say that they are saddled with "overcapacity" when the overall demand for PDP's is outstripping supply, implies that there is no market for the NEC / Pioneer products. There are -- some number of us -- that would purchase these sets right now if they were available...many of us are tired of waiting for availability of other brands. I sense a lot of pent-up demand for the "best bang for the buck" plasma tv's, if it were not so what are we all doing here?

This is a GREAT LOOKING product, and I for one hope that Pio cranks up the production line and produces enough so that the prices can be competitive.
post #44 of 4252
There is a simple way to solve the overproduction problem - lower prices! Pioneer is still using a very restrictive authorized dealer channel, while Panny is available from every corner market at a discount. Pioneer needs to get their costs down so they can lower the selling prices - right now they (just like Fujitsu) look very overpriced to the average consumer compared to Panny. I'm willing to pay a bit of a premium for better looks and build quality, but not 50% more.

Maybe Panny should just hire away the Pioneer bezel & stand design team...
post #45 of 4252
Pioneer for years hasn't QUITE been as good as Panasonic but has always charged out the WAZOO!

The fact that maybe now Pioneer might be slightly better than Panasonic's models will do them no good if they KEEP charging out the WAZOO!

The only way to send a message to Pioneer without putting them out of buisness is to buy MORE NECs and less Pioneers. They'll get the message!
post #46 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

Maybe Panny should just hire away the Pioneer bezel & stand design team...

If they used the 500u team they would be doing just fine.
post #47 of 4252
But I want one of those sexy new black ones ...

And I want it NOW
post #48 of 4252
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Pioneer for years hasn't QUITE been as good as Panasonic but has always charged out the WAZOO!

The fact that maybe now Pioneer might be slightly better than Panasonic's models will do them no good if they KEEP charging out the WAZOO!

The only way to send a message to Pioneer without putting them out of buisness is to buy MORE NECs and less Pioneers. They'll get the message!

Closing two production lines doesn't mean they are ALL closed. Pioneer is more expensive than Panasonic because they look better by a good margin, in my opinion, but I agree they do need to lower prices by about 500 bucks to have a chance in the market place to turn a profit.

What worries me most is the fact that on the whole Plasma quality is getting worse across the board. THis is because of the rising competition from Korean, and chinese brands that turn out crap for a low price, like Insignia brand, etc. Pioneer can't compete so they must either accept a smaller market share with good quality or risk quality and brand identity with lower costing poorer performing models, like Panasonic.
post #49 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by essogas View Post

Pioneer can't compete so they must either accept a smaller market share with good quality or risk quality and brand identity with lower costing poorer performing models, like Panasonic.

You are probably going to piss off alot of the Panny Police on this forum with this comment....but you may be right. You would be amazed at how many components inside the PX60u's are from China
post #50 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by soncomet View Post

Oh, if they come out in June that's perfect timing for a college graduation present to myself. I really wonder if the black levels have been improved at all over the 5060. I watch my friend's 5060 on a regular basis and last night while watching serenity I found myself yearning for deeper blacks. But even if the blacks remain the same I suppose they are atleast liveable.

Another question. Can non-elite models be calibrated just as easily by an isf calibrater as the elite models minus the better processing? Or are there other trade-offs in calibration between the elite and non-elite sets?

I tested the 5060hd and the commerical 8th gen panny 50 inch side by side. The Panny did have the better blacks, but only by a very, very small margin.

If the panels were not side by side I don't think you could tell the difference. Just my opinion. You might want to be sure both player and panel are properly calibrated. Some folks say the blacks are so good on the Pioneer 5060hd that material on earlier gen Pioneer's they owned actually looks darker.

There might be an improvement in the blacks on the next gen sets, but my guess would be, if there is, it might be something related to the 1080p and processing of the color shades/separations than anything else. But you never know, they might do a better display or mask.
post #51 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Pioneer for years hasn't QUITE been as good as Panasonic but has always charged out the WAZOO!

The fact that maybe now Pioneer might be slightly better than Panasonic's models will do them no good if they KEEP charging out the WAZOO!

The only way to send a message to Pioneer without putting them out of buisness is to buy MORE NECs and less Pioneers. They'll get the message!

Bear in mind also, that while you may not want all the features, the Pioneer comes with:

Mount/stand (and I don't mean the furniture)
Speakers
Hi Def Tuner
2 HDMI ports

The Panasonic commercial version 8th gen, which is or was the big favorite over the holidays I wanted to buy and was simply not in stock anywhere, came with NONE of these.

So when comparing prices, be sure to look at features so it has some chance of being something of an apples to apples comparison.
post #52 of 4252
[quote=Artwood]Pioneer for years hasn't QUITE been as good as Panasonic

PLEASE please put an IMO there mister panasonic,
post #53 of 4252
[quote=cirob]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Pioneer for years hasn't QUITE been as good as Panasonic

PLEASE please put an IMO there mister panasonic,

Hi Children....... , let's get along......


I think this Pioneer set is very sweet. It's very tempting.
post #54 of 4252
Here's the response I got to my query to Pioneer Customer Service about the 7G sets:

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.

We do not have this information available just yet. I would suggest viewing the "Press Room" on the Pioneer website under Company overview, here you will find the latest information and news on new Pioneer product and models.


Thank You,

Lance
Customer Service Representative
post #55 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You are probably going to piss off alot of the Panny Police on this forum with this comment....but you may be right. You would be amazed at how many components inside the PX60u's are from China

Hehe...
I wonder how long until Pioneer outsources parts

Edit: PDP-507HX: 37.4 kg* <-----guess that is already starting
post #56 of 4252
Thread Starter 
^^ Thi is my point... with the way things are going, who knows, these next generation panels may be a step backwards. Maybe they outsourced parts for these ones already. Pioneer has been reporting consecutive losses so something has to give. TV's will certainly live up to the credo, "They don't build them like they used to"
post #57 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by essogas View Post

^^ Thi is my point... with the way things are going, who knows, these next generation panels may be a step backwards. Maybe they outsourced parts for these ones already. Pioneer has been reporting consecutive losses so something has to give. TV's will certainly live up to the credo, "They don't build them like they used to"

Great point. I feel the same way. When I ventured into this hdtv world I've had trial and tribulations. And its when the whole cost cutting thing happened. I'd much rather pay for somethings thats right than to buy something that almost works right. IMO where these panels are cutting corners is on the electronics end with video processing that suffers, the displays are fine but it takes good video processing to complete the deal. But its just not a plasma thing, it seems to me that LCD is cutting corners of late also. I hope that it doesn't come too, that you can't buy a great tv, just a inexpensive one. Just give me a great tv I'll pony up the dough!
post #58 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

Hehe...
I wonder how long until Pioneer outsources parts

Edit: PDP-507HX: 37.4 kg* <-----guess that is already starting

37.4kg = 82.45lbs. How is that "outsourcing parts"?
post #59 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

37.4kg = 82.45lbs. How is that "outsourcing parts"?

Keep fighting, D-Nice, I'm with you. It's just retroactive sense making, people defending their purchase of a less-expensive set. Just admit that when you pay more for a Pioneer, you are getting a better set, people. It's just up to the individual to decide if that extra performance/feature set is worth the $$$.

I'm going to venture that Pioneer is banking on its competitors weakening their sets to meet price points, and will attempt to provide Pioneer standards and Elites to those willing to pay a premium for a no-corners-cut set. That's my hope, at least.
post #60 of 4252
Can someone summarize the big difference between these "new" ones and the ones that are being discontinued?

I was just about to buy the 50" from Costco when they got pulled. Does anyone know when Costco or other US retailers will start carrying them?

And is there a HUGE difference between these sets and the Panasonic 60U 50" sets? Thanks.
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