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Review of ABT102 Precision Deinterlacing Card for DVDO iScan VP30 - Page 2

post #31 of 432
From the ABT homepage:

Quote:


Anchor Bay will be rolling out other VRS solutions, such as detail enhancement and MPEG noise reduction, in both their semiconductor and DVDO brand systems throughout 2006

Hopefully this will be included in the "next DVDO product"!
post #32 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Hopefully this will be included in the "next DVDO product"!

One would assume so. Big FPGAs cost a fortune, so the sooner they get the stuff onto a application specific chip, the better it'll be for their bottom line.
post #33 of 432
Unless I am missing something, the linked press release dated 5/6/06 while mentioning edge enhancement and noise reduction as roll outs for later this year, makes no mention of improved (motion adaptive) deinterlacing of 1080i this year.
post #34 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Unless I am missing something, the linked press release dated 5/6/06 while mentioning edge enhancement and noise reduction as roll outs for later this year, no mention is made of improved (motion adaptive) deinterlacing of 1080i this year.

Maybe. But the WideScreenReview VP30 article said this:

"Anchor Bay Technologies plans to introduce its own 1080i inverse-telecine and motion-adaptive deinterlacing in a new DVDO video processor later this year."

Surely WSR wouldn't claim such a thing without confirmation from DVDO/ABT?
post #35 of 432
Thread Starter 
Would like to add that ABT's VRS "Evaluation & Optimization DVD" is superb.

Who made it?
Stacey Spears and Don Munsil and team have done a fantastic job with this DVD, big pat on the back / high five (dpending on your cultural preference) from here!

What's on it?
DVD is in four sections: Static Paterns, Motion Paterns, Demo Loop, About.

Static Paterns contains: Picture Controls, Geometry, Gray Scale, Half Patterns. All of these contain a number of test patterns to help calibrate a video processor.

Motion Paterns contains: Chroma Upsampling, Source Adaptive, Edge Adaptive, Mixed Mode, Montage. All of these sections contain a number of different items to test the capbilities of a video processor.

How is it?
Not only are the test patterns extremely well thought out, no redundancy or pointless duplications, they are very well made and of the highest quality. Futhermore, the menu system is the best structured of any calibration / benchmark DVD period.

This will be the new benchmark DVD, it's got better and more comprehensive tests than the HQV one and it's really easy to use.

Top marks (again) to DVDO team at ABT.



StooMonster
post #36 of 432
Quote:
Static Paterns contains: Picture Controls, Geometry, Gray Scale, Half Patterns. All of these contain a number of test patterns to help calibrate a video processor.

I could not think of a better name than "half patterns". These map to the patterns in the VP30 where half of the image is transparent. The idea is you would pull up that pattern on the disc and then go to it on the VP30. This will allow you to verify color space conversion, as an example. The bars may not line up exactly due to pixel cropping in a player, but the colors should match.

I need to explain the bad edit tests located under source adaptive. It contains the following bad edits:

# ...AABBBCCDDD-BBBCCDDDAA... (...3-2-3-|3-2...)
# ...AABBBCCDDD-DDAABBBCCD... (...3-2-3-|2-2-3-2...)
#
# ...BCCDDDAABB-BBBCCDDDAA... (...3-2-2-|3-2...) *
# ...BCCDDDAABB-AABBBCCDDD... (...3-2-2-|2-3-2...) *
# ...BCCDDDAABB-DDAABBBCCD... (...3-2-2-|2-2-3-2...)
#
# ...BBBCCDDDAA-AABBBCCDDD... (...3-2-|2-3-2...)
# ...BBBCCDDDAA-DDAABBBCCD... (...3-2-|2-2-3-2...)

These are 7 of the 25 possible bad edits with 2-3. These are the only 7 that do not contain a single field. The purpose of this test is to see if a processor can track across an edit w/o dropping to video.

The first time you see the text, this means the next edit, or loop, will contain that edit. At that point the text color will invert but remain the same. This gives you time to read what the edit was, incase it dropped out of film lock. The next edit, however, will actually be clean. So you have bad, clean, bad, clean, etc...

If a processor drops lock, it should only occur on the first of each. If it occurs on the clean edits too, that is even worse.

The montage was edited by hand to ensure that almost every cut is a bad edit. The cross fades are usually 2-3 to 2-2, 2-2 to 2-3 or 2-3 to 2-3 where one 2-3 is out of phase with the other.

The montage is more enjoyable with audio.
post #37 of 432
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

I could not think of a better name than "half patterns". These map to the patterns in the VP30 where half of the image is transparent. The idea is you would pull up that pattern on the disc and then go to it on the VP30. This will allow you to verify color space conversion, as an example. The bars may not line up exactly due to pixel cropping in a player, but the colors should match.

These are a great idea, couldn't believe I'd forgot to mention them in my post above.

Quote:
edited by hand

DVD certainly oozes quality and shows the hard work to get it just right; as per above, nice job!

StooMonster
post #38 of 432
hi sspears: do you plan to have some form of simple documentation for the dvd ?

(For the moment I'm trying to understand the chroma ICP clips.... )
post #39 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by StooMonster View Post

Would like to add that ABT's VRS "Evaluation & Optimization DVD" is superb.

Who made it?
Stacey Spears and Don Munsil and team have done a fantastic job with this DVD, big pat on the back / high five (dpending on your cultural preference) from here!

What's on it?
DVD is in four sections: Static Paterns, Motion Paterns, Demo Loop, About.

Static Paterns contains: Picture Controls, Geometry, Gray Scale, Half Patterns. All of these contain a number of test patterns to help calibrate a video processor.

Motion Paterns contains: Chroma Upsampling, Source Adaptive, Edge Adaptive, Mixed Mode, Montage. All of these sections contain a number of different items to test the capbilities of a video processor.

How is it?
Not only are the test patterns extremely well thought out, no redundancy or pointless duplications, they are very well made and of the highest quality. Futhermore, the menu system is the best structured of any calibration / benchmark DVD period.

This will be the new benchmark DVD, it's got better and more comprehensive tests than the HQV one and it's really easy to use.

Top marks (again) to DVDO team at ABT.



StooMonster

Maybe I missed it, but: Where, when, and how can the rest of us get this DVD you refer to?
post #40 of 432
The DVD is included with the purchase of the ABT102.
post #41 of 432
I hope the dvd will be offered separately as well, around say $15 would be great. I'd pick one up.
post #42 of 432
There are multiple edge adaptive clips. These show a processors ability to deal with jaggies.

Aside from the synthetic clip, there is ropes, ship and hockey. This clips show was sets apart the ABT102 apart from the HQV and the Gennum.

In ships there are a pair of horizontal and vertical ropes that intersect. The Gennum and HQV shows jaggies across the ropes. The ABT102 only shows jaggies at the intersection of the ropes.

With hockey you should look at the markers on the ice. Again, the ABT102 maintains solid lines while the HQV and Gennum shows jaggies. The top of the glass is also another good location to look at.

The Gennum does the worst on jaggies. Take a look at the far right side of the ship. You want to look at the side of the ship.

The montage may actually be a bit boring if you watch it on the ABT102. You should take a look at it on something else, like the Toshiba HD DVD player when it is outputting 480p. It combs on almost every cut. There are also many markers in the montage that show jaggies when not in film mode. The coffee cups, the car hood, the round parts of the open piano, the lights on the motor cycle. You want to look at scene changes and those objects. The Gennum does unusually bad on the motorcycle near the end. There is an isolated portion of the image that combs on every cut.

The Denon 5910 does well on the cadence patterns, but the NEC Theatersync does poorly. It only locks on the 2-3 pattern on the high detail tests. It does fine on the diner clips. These are both using the HQV but the results are much different. The 5910 does a lot better than the NEC as well as the Yamaha with HQV.

The tracking ability of the ABT102 is something I like a lot. Play the high detail play all clip. This goes through each cadence pattern. It will repeate each one twice and then go on to the next. The AB102 drops on each 2-2 loop, but never drops after that.
post #43 of 432
Quote:


hi sspears: do you plan to have some form of simple documentation for the dvd ?

(For the moment I'm trying to understand the chroma ICP clips.... )

I believe Josh and co are working on some docs. We did not have time to get them done prior to the disc shipping. The goal was to have on-screen examples like the HQV disc, but we ran out of time.

For a refresher on ICP and CUE, please read: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...ug-4-2001.html

The chroma bug tests are both DVD player and processor tests. First you want to disable the CUE correction feature of the VP30 when running these tests. All DVD players suffer from ICP, some worse than others. DVD players should be able to pass the 2-2 and 2-3 tests. These tests should tell you if they suffer and how severe. There are four rows of squares. The 2nd row can be ignored. That is really there for processors to detect a cadence. You see processors only look at the luma channel when doing cadence detection. To show the chroma bug you want to remove luma. The chroma lines in motion, should not flicker and should be clean and straight. By straight I mean not jagged. If you see jaggies in the bottom two rows, you have the bug. Again, 2-2 and 2-3 should be clean while ICP will have jaggies.

On the processor side, you are testing to see if it has a chroma filter to mask thee artifacts. Once you have done the above, set CUE correction to on or auto. The bars should clean up some. If you have an RP56 or RP81, the ICP cleans up very well because it is minor. If you have a Pioneer, it does not clean up as well because the ICP is so severe.
post #44 of 432
I am interested in some feedback on the image cropping pattern. This is located under static patterns -> geometry. This is a bit different than AVIA. AVIA is 0 based while ours is 1 based. You simply go to the first number that is missing the end and that is how many are cropped.

The HD version is much more interesting because it includes test for accurate gamma, linear light scaling and 1:1 mapping.
post #45 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

There are four rows of squares. The 2nd row can be ignored. That is really there for processors to detect a cadence. You see processors only look at the luma channel when doing cadence detection. To show the chroma bug you want to remove luma. The chroma lines in motion, should not flicker and should be clean and straight. By straight I mean not jagged. If you see jaggies in the bottom two rows, you have the bug. Again, 2-2 and 2-3 should be clean while ICP will have jaggies.

Thanks! This is exactly what I'm looking for, i.e. how to identify

Quote:


If you have a Pioneer, it does not clean up as well because the ICP is so severe.

I can confirm this...

Quote:


The montage may actually be a bit boring if you watch it on the ABT102

I was abt to ask what to see on this since there is really nothing "unusual" to see while using the ABT102.

I should be able to have an opportunity to try this disk on a VantageHD. Will look at the jaggy clips.
post #46 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

I am interested in some feedback on the image cropping pattern. This is located under static patterns -> geometry. This is a bit different than AVIA. AVIA is 0 based while ours is 1 based. You simply go to the first number that is missing the end and that is how many are cropped.

The HD version is much more interesting because it includes test for accurate gamma, linear light scaling and 1:1 mapping.

HD version?! By this, do you mean that there will be a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray (or both ) edition of this test disc. If so, you just became my new best friend!
post #47 of 432
Dicey

Don and I are planning an HD test disc. We wish to cover a lot of area, mostly for 3rd parties to have difficult content to work with for product development. It will have the normal calibration patterns plus much more. No ETA at this time as we are still trying to scope the work and continue to build tools to create more tests.
post #48 of 432
Stacey,

Keep us TS mongers in mind...
post #49 of 432
HW and SW install in 25 minutes; very impressive results on SD cable TV. Haven't tried DVD yet - wife has TV proramme she wants to watch.

Question: does anyone know what is the purpose ( or future use) of the six pins at the top of the card? It looks like it is designed to accept an adapter of some sort.
post #50 of 432
I haven't seen the card yet, but if I had to guess, it's probably the interface to reprogram the ROM. BTW, some more information on the ABT102 can be found here, including the FPGA model used and the ROM used:

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/ABT102chip.html

--Andre
post #51 of 432
Andre,



Thanx for the link...what struck me, after reading the specs, was the outputting of 20-bit 4:2:2 YCbCr.

Can I assume this means that an 8-bit 4:2:2 YCbCr signal from a DVD player is processed into a 20-bit 4:2:2 YCbCr signal and sent out to the display?
post #52 of 432
Thread Starter 
Either that or it's a typo and should read "10-bit 4:2:2 YCbCr"

StooMonster
post #53 of 432
The output has 10-bit resolution. The "20-bit" part of the spec just means that the luma and chroma are not multiplexed together into a single stream.

- Dale Adams
post #54 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

There are multiple edge adaptive clips. These show a processors ability to deal with jaggies.

Aside from the synthetic clip, there is ropes, ship and hockey. This clips show was sets apart the ABT102 apart from the HQV and the Gennum.

In ships there are a pair of horizontal and vertical ropes that intersect. The Gennum and HQV shows jaggies across the ropes. The ABT102 only shows jaggies at the intersection of the ropes.

With hockey you should look at the markers on the ice. Again, the ABT102 maintains solid lines while the HQV and Gennum shows jaggies. The top of the glass is also another good location to look at.

The Gennum does the worst on jaggies. Take a look at the far right side of the ship. You want to look at the side of the ship.

The montage may actually be a bit boring if you watch it on the ABT102. You should take a look at it on something else, like the Toshiba HD DVD player when it is outputting 480p. It combs on almost every cut. There are also many markers in the montage that show jaggies when not in film mode. The coffee cups, the car hood, the round parts of the open piano, the lights on the motor cycle. You want to look at scene changes and those objects. The Gennum does unusually bad on the motorcycle near the end. There is an isolated portion of the image that combs on every cut.

The Denon 5910 does well on the cadence patterns, but the NEC Theatersync does poorly. It only locks on the 2-3 pattern on the high detail tests. It does fine on the diner clips. These are both using the HQV but the results are much different. The 5910 does a lot better than the NEC as well as the Yamaha with HQV.

The tracking ability of the ABT102 is something I like a lot. Play the high detail play all clip. This goes through each cadence pattern. It will repeate each one twice and then go on to the next. The AB102 drops on each 2-2 loop, but never drops after that.

Hey Stacey

I remember the Gennum not doing as well with the HQV jaggies pattern but quite good with the hockey one. The boat was kind of hit or miss with everything, and almost a pick your poison as everything dropped out a little. What I liked about the Gennum is the fact that it does diagonal line processing with HD as well, as demonstrated when you came over that day. I haven't had the chance to test that with the HQV yet and the ABT doesn't do HD unfortunately but that will change soon with their new stuff.

Gennum had issues with extreme corners or end if I remember right, which is why the hockey scene probably looked good but not the HQV angles.
post #55 of 432
Kris,

you wrote:

Quote:


The HQV solution still performed a bit better with mixed cadences, including those commonly found in foreign animation. It would also lock onto high detail images with mixed cadences a bit faster.

In what way did the HQV perform better with mixed cadences - apart from locking on a bit faster? Or was the fast locking on the only advantage? Your use of "also" sounds to me as if there was something else (apart from the faster locking on) where the HQV performed better.

Thank you!
post #56 of 432
Kris and Stacey,

did you try this on HQV yet? It would be very interesting to compare results with ABT102...
post #57 of 432
Noobs question...would this add on (ABT102) make the PQ close to HD (broadcast or HD-a1/x1)?
post #58 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedtsc View Post

Noobs question...would this add on (ABT102) make the PQ close to HD (broadcast or HD-a1/x1)?

The ABT102 is just a deinterlacer. It converts 480i to 480p. The scaling from 480p to any higher resolution is still done by the same chip in the VP30 that was doing it before.
post #59 of 432
Thanks. Would you say that the VP30 output PQ is close to HD as advertised?
post #60 of 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Kris,

you wrote:


In what way did the HQV perform better with mixed cadences - apart from locking on a bit faster? Or was the fast locking on the only advantage? Your use of "also" sounds to me as if there was something else (apart from the faster locking on) where the HQV performed better.

Thank you!

As I update the benchmark the differences will show. The HQV in the Denon did a bit better with some of the high detail test patterns that Stacey generated with mixed cadences. At some point I would like to generate a competition of sorts between the ABT-103, National Semiconducter, HQV, Reon, and VXP chips since they are all next generation chips. But I don't know when (or if) this could be arranged based on my travel schedule. I would use newer material such as the HQV and VRS test discs, some home brewed stuff and some of our older benchmark tests.
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