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Small Squiggly interference lines on NEC XG 1352 ?? - Page 3  

post #61 of 284
Gary, you are all over the place. You should have a cowboy hat on instead of a bandana in your Avatar pic ;)

- Your lenses are no good, but they were fine at Cliff's

- You've started #$%ing with the pots and the white balance (Ref Adjust) menu - and now it's shutting down

- Gamma needs to be tweaked at the source, unless you are an expert you will not get it right with the white balance settings


- XGs are known to have a noisy image, but I thought it got fixed with the later versions - you need to go and see another one I think. Did Cliff have any issues?

- You seem to fiddle before you read or ask...



You are going to kill this XG, if fact you are well on your way. Just stop for a minute and do some research before you #$@ with it some more.
post #62 of 284
Thread Starter 
no Mark, I have not messed with any pots, I had only adjusted the horz width pot just a smidge but I placed him back later that evening, I was speaking of the fact that when I adjust the bright gains up into the 60's(they are around 45 to 50 when the G2 calibration is complete), the pj starts to shut down, I have read from 2 sources in the archives that this indicated that the board pots were wrong, boy I wish I had the needed skill and tools to set those things :(

everything is perfectly stable after I finished my G2 calibration, my convergence is not even drifting at all(it was doing this for Cliff)

about the lenses, Cliff was using them on a 4:3 screen ;)

I would gladly adjust gamma at the source but what would the point be if the PJ is clipping whites and crushing blacks??, there is no way I can do anything about that but at the PJ

this is not image noise, I have got to get a pic of this up, it looks very close to a ground loop but doesn't act like one, the fact that it moves up and down so quick is why it can be seen from my 1.5X viewing distance, it seems today the red tube was liking to dance, it moves around from all 3 tubes, sometimes all at once

I have read all the manuals front to back 3 or 4 times before I even cracked the case, I am just getting started on the service manual, rest assured I will not kill this NEC ;) it's far from my first pj

-Gary
post #63 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell
no Mark, I have not messed with any pots, I had only adjusted the horz width pot just a smidge but I placed him back later that evening, I was speaking of the fact that when I adjust the bright gains up into the 60's(they are around 45 to 50 when the G2 calibration is complete), the pj starts to shut down, I have read from 2 sources in the archives that this indicated that the board pots were wrong, boy I wish I had the needed skill and tools to set those things :(

everything is perfectly stable after I finished my G2 calibration, my convergence is not even drifting at all(it was doing this for Cliff)

about the lenses, Cliff was using them on a 4:3 screen ;)

I would gladly adjust gamma at the source but what would the point be if the PJ is clipping whites and crushing blacks??, there is no way I can do anything about that but at the PJ

this is not image noise, I have got to get a pic of this up, it looks very close to a ground loop but doesn't act like one, the fact that it moves up and down so quick is why it can be seen from my 1.5X viewing distance, it seems today the red tube was liking to dance, it moves around from all 3 tubes, sometimes all at once

I have read all the manuals front to back 3 or 4 times before I even cracked the case, I am just getting started on the service manual, rest assured I will not kill this NEC ;) it's far from my first pj

-Gary
Gary,

I didn't see the post about the PJ shutting down, did I miss something? Just so you know, I fed that thing insane resolutions and it never shut down on me once.

I would be MORE than HAPPY to trade your lenses for the ones on my G70. Just say the word.

I really think that you should suck it up and have Ken Whitcomb come over to get you dialed in. You wont regret it Gary, TRUST ME.

Have KEN OVER BIG DOG.

:^)

Cliff
post #64 of 284
Thread Starter 
Cliff thanks

the PJ shut down twice when I had adjusted the bright gain service menu items up higher(in a attempt to lower the gamma curve) when I adjusted these setting I also had the contrast on 90

I found another member that had the exact same behavior, it turned out his pots were misadjusted

the 2 shutdowns happend for a reason and should not be worried about

the PJ has ran perfect since day one, never shutting down or etc., the convergence has even been 99% stable, almost perfect

Cliff if I can get these interference problems and my lens issues straightened out I am more than happy with this unit, gamma/greyscale problems are not anything to get tore up over and can be corrected at anytime by a pro

-Gary
post #65 of 284
Thread Starter 
I started working on some pics here guys, first is my focus issue with the 134's and my 2.35:1 screen:

http://home.bigsandybb.com/gmurrell/greengrain.jpg

second we have pic were the red CRT had decided at the time to start showing the interference, it is so much worse than this pic, this is not noise, but lines across the screen, you can barely make them out on the far right side of this image, they are this way across the whole screen and can be made out from my seat(I do have 20/15 vision)

my red pic also shows the good phosphur grain I get with the outer focus all the way out(unfocused)

and I want to make it be known that the pj shows this same interference with no source connected on the raster with brightness all the way up and contrast all the way down:

http://home.bigsandybb.com/gmurrell/red1.jpg

-Gary
post #66 of 284
Gary - it's much harder to focus LC lenses than AC ones - the knobs interact. There's a procedure here:
http://www.curtpalme.com/NECXG_Lens_Halo_Fix.htm

And those stripes in the red are not the "normal" XG noise. That looks like interference, rather than random, low level noise. You're right, something is not right...
post #67 of 284
Gary,

regarding your focus issues:

It is my experience that the XG can get sharper and more detailed then the G70 which is good, but you cannot get the whole screen to look as good as the best parts and have to make compromises.

The G70 on the other hand focusses very evenly although the maximum resolving capability is a bit behind the XG.

And I second to have Ken Whitcomb come over, from what I hear from a few guys whose opinions I value a lot he is the man :)

Oliver
post #68 of 284
Oh, and I think you're nucking futs if you sell your lenses at this point.

You could like - wait a day or two maybe... before you shoot yourself in the foot - you never know, you might find a solution.
post #69 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
Oh, and I think you're nucking futs if you sell your lenses at this point.

You could like - wait a day or two maybe... before you shoot yourself in the foot - you never know, you might find a solution.
hehe, he said nucking futs. Stop giving him good advice big dog,

:D
post #70 of 284
Thread Starter 
Guys I wanted to add something

Mark I have tried that procedure also, no dice :(

I came into this very same problem once on my Barco 808, I moved my pj into a new room and setup him up, I had a custom hd144 lens mod on my Barco

once I got him in the new room, I was stoopified about how I couldn't get my phosphur grain to pull in inside the center 75% of the screen(like above) outer focus was crisp though

same exact damn issue as above, I kid not :mad:, all I could ever get was phosphur grain around the perimeter/sharp outer corner focus but had bad inner focus

I just couldn't figure it out, well it turned out that the HD144's didn't like the screen size and setup that I was using :(, so I swapped my hd-8's back in and instantly there was my phosphur grain and good corner to corner focus and a nice crisp image

I have been working on this thing for 8 days now, probably 100 hours of time, this lens focus issue cannot be resolved, I have tried everything, same as I did with the hd144's on my barco 808, even changing my throw distance everywhere in a range from 103" to 117"

right now the 1352 is far from as crisp as the Barco 808 was, and even I know that is not just plain wrong, I have amazing tube focus but can't get that nice image pop because of my lens issue, I see some serious potential in this bad boy ;)

-Gary
post #71 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
And those stripes in the red are not the "normal" XG noise. That looks like interference, rather than random, low level noise. You're right, something is not right...
And that is defocused but still visible. Or could be interlace field artifacts thickened by defocus.

A couple of notes-A lens that is designed for 4x3 should not have issues with 16x9 cause 16x9 is smaller portion of 4x3, The opposite is not true though.
post #72 of 284
Thread Starter 
I have no idea what is up with the 134's, same thing happened with the 144's to me previously

all it would take is to try out a hd18, come on someone cough up one for me to try out, Cliff will thank you for it, as he gets my 134's back ;)

I found in the Archives Caspian where some ISF guys were talking about the HD-18 lens being made for widescreen images like 1.78:1 and they are better for that and the 134 being made for curved 4:3 screens

I am using neither, I am using a 2.35:1 screen

I have also seen posts of Doug discussing them, BTW where you at buddy?? I would be willing to pay you for some help and advice in getting this interference problem corrected

I just viewed the 134's setup the best were the grain is pulled in nice and tight in the middle of the screen(outside perimeter shot to hell), holy cow!! now that is what I expected the NEC to look like :eek:

here is the deal, right now how the lenses are setup would prolly be focused well on a curved screen and having the grain pulled in nice and tight in the middle with the edges horribly out of focused on my flat 2.35:1 screen

I need a hd-18 :)

-Gary
post #73 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell
I found in the Archives Caspian where some ISF guys were talking about the HD-18 lens being made for widescreen images like 1.78:1 and they are better for that and the 134 being made for curved 4:3 screens

I am using neither, I am using a 2.35:1 screen
This is the first time I read that HD-134 is for curved screen.
Looking at my SM spec sheet, this lens is listed as standard but Doug said Nec furnished with both 134 and 144. As been said earlier most lens have hard time to focus plane 100%. There are always some field curvature which shows up under scrutiny. It is hard to judge by picture. I see some softening but grain is always present in you photos.
post #74 of 284
Thread Starter 
Caspian the 134 lens is a 3d App lens from everything I have seen, sold on the G70VR and 1352G(along with short persistence Green like my 1352), it was made for curved screens from what I gather, thats why it is almost flat on the front and the rear is flat instead of going into theC-Element

I wish I could find some info on the darn things

the best I can come up with is info on them from documents about the G70 Virtual Reality unit

like here:

http://catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCAT...dfs/vphg70.pdf

they are not getting it done in my setup and are behaving the very same way the hd144's did when they didn't like my setup

-Gary
post #75 of 284
I think 134 has the added more edge focus range for curved. MAybe??
For you info, I bought my PJ brand new from AVS and was shipped to me from nec direct.
Out of box it came with 134 and date is one of latest/last built of XG1352. Look at the service manual, it is pictured with 134 and 134 is listed as standard. Any thing else is beyond me frankly.
post #76 of 284
From Nec brochure in pdf:

"The MultiSync XG135LCâ„¢ projector is best suited
for environments demanding the most precise,
high-resolution images, where there can be no
compromise on image quality.
Horizontal Scan Rate: 15-135kHz
Video Bandwidth: 150MHz
Brightness: 1200 Lumens
Peak White/
240 ANSI Lumens
Lens: HD134 Liquid
Coupled
Video Compatibility: NTSC, PAL, SECAM,
NTSC 4.43, HDTV
RGB Compatibility: up to 2500 x 2000"
post #77 of 284
Thread Starter 
well I fixed my green tubes slight flare issue :), the EM coil and astig mags were placed all wrong on the tube, I honestly wonder who sets these things up like this at NEC? :mad:

the EM coil needed to go forward and the astig mag back a little, a little tweak of the focus pot and boom there is a better green focus

now for some properly focusing lenses for my setup and I will be doing just fine

one thing is certain, the electric focus on my red and blue tubes is totally unreal, the green is just smidge less, the NEC has killer focus

the 134 lenses are also wonderful performers, they give a perfect corner to corner focus 100% even, if only they would focus up right on my setup :( (35 x 82.25 cinemascope screen)

-Gary
post #78 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell

I have been working on this thing for 8 days now, probably 100 hours of time, this lens focus issue cannot be resolved, I have tried everything, same as I did with the hd144's on my barco 808, even changing my throw distance everywhere in a range from 103" to 117"
Keep in mind that you will be losing a small bit of resolving power by running a 2.35 raster on the XG as compared to your 16:9 raster on the 808.
post #79 of 284
What is the throw distance and width of screen?

These constant issues with lenses that work fine for everyone else is puzzling, but you run a small screen don't you? (The aspect ratio is irrelevant for the lenses).
post #80 of 284
Gary,

you might want to try to move the projector back to something like 150".
I know this would not work with your screen but it would be interesting to see if this resolves the focus issues with the lens.

If it does it would indicate that the lens is just not as good at the lower limit of its operating range, same goes for other lenses, too.

I know that the 144's also do not like 80" wide screens that much when the phosphor is maximized, foucussing for 100" wide is easier.
post #81 of 284
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie
Keep in mind that you will be losing a small bit of resolving power by running a 2.35 raster on the XG as compared to your 16:9 raster on the 808.

I replied back to your PM Eddie, sorry for the delay :), I am using 1080i in my reduced raster, with the NEC I am still getting scan lines in the 2.35:1 raster, this puppy can focus and well :cool:

Mark I ran a 72" wide 16:9 screen with the HD144's and they wouldn't focus up at all, right now I have a 82" wide 2.35:1 screen and my throw is 103" and the same damn thing is happening with the 134's, why I constantly run into this is very puzzling

I think you got it figured out Oliver, I will try that ASAP, I always maximize raster and use small screen widths

all I know is that this is the exact same thing I ran into with the 144's, the outer perimeter would come in nice and crisp, the center would never let me pull it in unless I maximized the outer focus, wierd stuff indeed

I have literally messed with both these lenses for days on end to make sure it wasn't me, they just will not focus up in the center, no matter what

-Gary
post #82 of 284
Well, I know it's irrelevant now, but I have no trouble focusing HD-144s onto a 2.1m (84") wide screen.

I'd be surprised if 134's can't do it...
post #83 of 284
Thread Starter 
my 144's on my Barco 808 focused up totally friggin amazing on a 92" wide screen, at 74" wide though they were a joke

it seems, my small room and screen size's cause me more problems than it is worth

I cannot seem to locate a hd-18, I don't want to just straight up trade these 134's just yet without testing a hd-18, but If I find the hd-18 corrects my issue then Cliff has himself a new set of 134's :D

-Gary
post #84 of 284
Thread Starter 
Oliver you my friend, you are a genious and you really know your stuff :)

I moved my 1352 back to 128" from the 82" width screen, the focus interaction was much more even and the phosphur grain came in much much better without the need for outer unfocus

which totally confirms my issues, confirming 2 things:

with the 134 lenses, they do not like smaller screens
the 134 lenses also Do NOT like maximized raster

or maybe they just don't like maximized raster ??

I noticed that to focus the corners this far back, the outer lens focus needs just a smidge from being maximzed, allowing the middle to be better like I had been explaining all along

get this:

for the NEC 1352 with 134 lenses, the throw distance chart from the 1352 manual gives a screen width of just 85" for a throw distance of 128", my screen size at that throw with maximized raster would be 98" width :eek:

I could set this guy up per the NEC throw distance and make my screen 86" but that would be pushing it for my viewing distance

basically I think things are not interacting well here, maximzed raster meaning smaller throw meaning the 134 lenses work differently, all amounting to my problem

I wish I had a bigger room, I would set him up for 98" width

right now I am looking at 2 options a bigger screen and NEC specified throw(which sucks!) or trying another lens set

Thanks again Oliver

-Gary
post #85 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
Well, I know it's irrelevant now, but I have no trouble focusing HD-144s onto a 2.1m (84") wide screen.
Me neither :D

Here's a shot of the green from my XG-1350 ( red is a little sharper again but i don't have a image of that ) running 1280 x 1152P x 50Hz . Test pattern is from the Mitsubishi test pattern generator.

Keep plugging away at it Gary. It will all fall into place eventually :)

Cheers

Russ

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/benn...1280x1152P.jpg
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/benn...ests/XG_07.jpg
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/benn...ests/XG_05.jpg
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/benn...s/XG_FP_06.jpg
post #86 of 284
Is that a high-gain screen? Is your name Benny or Russ? :D
post #87 of 284
WOW!!!! BEAUTIFUL!! :D

Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by benny
Me neither :D

Here's a shot of the green from my XG-1350 ( red is a little sharper again but i don't have a image of that ) running 1280 x 1152P x 50Hz . Test pattern is from the Mitsubishi test pattern generator.

Keep plugging away at it Gary. It will all fall into place eventually :)

Cheers

Russ

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/benn...1280x1152P.jpg
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/benn...ests/XG_07.jpg
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/benn...ests/XG_05.jpg
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/benn...s/XG_FP_06.jpg
post #88 of 284
Thread Starter 
Benny has Goo on his screen and I am off to order some right now :eek:

I kid not, every CRT setup I have seen with Goo has screensohts that look like these

-Gary
post #89 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie
Is that a high-gain screen? Is your name Benny or Russ? :D
G'day CZ :)

Name is Russ ... moniker is benny. Its a nickname i've had for years!

Screen is Goo CRT white onto MDF. Hand applied with 5mm wool nap roller. Gain is measured at 1.35:1 as compared to normal blockout cloth. There is a fair bit of texture when using a roller and if i was to do it all over again I would spray the Goo on. The shot of the test pattern is also from quite close, and that will bring out the texture moreso than from seating distance.

Cliff ... thanks :)

Cheers :)

Russ
post #90 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell
Benny has Goo on his screen and I am off to order some right now :eek:

I kid not, every CRT setup I have seen with Goo has screensohts that look like these

-Gary
Goo screens are very good value for money but one still needs some basic skills to put one together. I'm convinced that spraying will give best results due to the absense of roller marks. Even with my anal attention to details while rolling I ended up with a small section where the paint ended up with the texture slightly different to the rest. This shows up in bright scenes and can be a little distracting. Most folks wouldnt notice it but I do because i know it's there ... lol

To get an idea of gain, I run my XG-1350 at CONSTRAST of 55. This gives a smidgeon over 10 FtL from a 100IRE window ( as measured with my ColorFacts system and spectroradiometer ). This is on a 80" wide screen in 16:9 mode.

Cheers :)

Russ
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