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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 368

post #11011 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by nine ball View Post

This would be the understatement for the last year!!! When they finally do it (I am still on 1.10) I seriously think there will be a need for a site update that will do Anthem no harm. For technology that still remains absent any peer they (Anthem) need a serious info update and refresh that recognizes some of the tremendous gains they have accomplished through this rather lenthy process. It is an incredibly sad commentary on the management team of Anthem that the only substantive detail that begins to adequately describe the strengths of the D2 can be found in this thread!

If I were running this company Bob P, you would be center of the exec table. Most other thread regulars would be paid advisors except Hank who would side far too much with the engineering department for their own good. Having said that I would double Nicks salary and ensure that he too had a prominent influence at the exec table.

Seriously, again, to the folks at Anthem..........put V1.3 on the public site now, its taken faaar to long to correct this bad behaviour. You still do not have any competition and although your engineering prowess has kept you there your general management and marketing departments have a failing grade.

And no you can't have my D2 back for double the list price!!!!

Peter

Hear, hear ......!
post #11012 of 42682
I contacted Anthem Tech Support regarding HDMI incompatibility with Apple TV; downloaded and installed 1.29J with no problems. Apple TV works through component/optical and still unable to get video/audio through HDMI. will update after working through this with Apple. No other 1.29J issues with my setup.
post #11013 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalarsons View Post

I contacted Anthem Tech Support regarding HDMI incompatibility with Apple TV; downloaded and installed 1.29J with no problems. Apple TV works through component/optical and still unable to get video/audio through HDMI. will update after working through this with Apple. No other 1.29J issues with my setup.

SAME results here.

Only works on COMPONENT.

Did you force Apple TV to 720p?

That is the only resolution - Apple Claims that works on HDMI.
post #11014 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

SAME results here.

Only works on COMPONENT.

Did you force Apple TV to 720p?

That is the only resolution - Apple Claims that works on HDMI.

Yes, I'm running 720p.

As you know, there are no issues with Apple TV video/audio using component/optical because the D2 does a great job with both. I would just like to reduce cable clutter in the jungle.
post #11015 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalarsons View Post

Yes, I'm running 720p.

As you know, there are no issues with Apple TV video/audio using component/optical because the D2 does a great job with both. I would just like to reduce cable clutter in the jungle.

I have spare HDMI ports but NO Spare Component Ports.

I doubt we will see Apple TV work via HDMI.
post #11016 of 42682
Can someone please help me undertand the D/A conversion on my system......I have an audyssey pro sound eq and love it! I want to understand the D/A process involved in my system to see if it would be any different having it done by the D2 by reducing an extra D/A conversion.

DVD/CD outputs in digital (HDMI/Dig coax) to the D2
D2 then converts digital to analogue & then outputs analogue at the pre-outs???? Or does it out put in digital???

If outputs in analogue then my audyssey pro has no D/A converting to do.

So the MCA 50 takes the analogue and converts it to sound to the speakers.

OR does the D2 output from the pre-outs (L,R,C, RS, LS) in digital causing my Audyssey to do the D/A conversion?

Thanks!
post #11017 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabbit636 View Post

Can someone please help me undertand the D/A conversion on my system......I have an audyssey pro sound eq and love it! I want to understand the D/A process involved in my system to see if it would be any different having it done by the D2 by reducing an extra D/A conversion.

DVD/CD outputs in digital (HDMI/Dig coax) to the D2
D2 then converts digital to analogue & then outputs analogue at the pre-outs???? Or does it out put in digital???

If outputs in analogue then my audyssey pro has no D/A converting to do.

So the MCA 50 takes the analogue and converts it to sound to the speakers.

OR does the D2 output from the pre-outs (L,R,C, RS, LS) in digital causing my Audyssey to do the D/A conversion?

Thanks!

I plan on eventually getting the D2 mic and testing it against my audyssey Pro Eq stand alone unit at a cost of $2000+. I am very interested in seeing how it compares. If its as good then my audyssey unit willl be for sale and the $$ will go to other upgrades.......

Those that have never tried such a unit like the Audyssey Pro (not the cheaper verions but the stand alone pro unit) or a similar unit, you will be amazed at the difference it will make to your system. It is by far my best investment (even at $2000+) and the $300 cost for the D2 version is really a MUST have and a no brainer!

I think if the D2 does a good job like the audyssey, then Anthem should expect sales to rise big time. The D2 with room calibration, a video scaler, superior sound and the fact that it does it all (almost as it doesn't decode the latest surround sounds.....not getting into that discussion/debate!) .....it really is the PERFECT PACAKGE!

I love my D2!
post #11018 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabbit636 View Post

I love my D2!

post #11019 of 42682
The multi-channel speaker pre-amp outputs of the D2 put out an analog audio signal -- which is of course what any audio power amp is expecting.

[There is a digital audio output available on the D2 intended for use with digital recorders. A digital audio input must be selected.]

I don't know the details of how your particular external EQ works, but most audio processors these days, when fed an analog audio input, have to DIGITIZE it prior to processing, and then reconvert it back to analog for output.

Indeed if you feed an analog audio input into the D2, it too must digitize that prior to processing. The processed result is then converted back to analog for output. If you choose to have the D2 not process that analog input, only then is it passed through to the output still as analog (without digitizing or conversion back to analog).

The data on a CD is recorded in digital form. The real-world, analog audio was converted to digital as part of the CD authoring process. So if you use the digital outputs of the CD to the D2 the next conversion will happen in the D2, after that digital audio input is processed by the D2, as that processed digital signal is converted to analog for the pre-amp outputs of the D2. What happens next, in your external EQ, depends on the details of how it is engineered, but I would expect that it would take that analog input and digitize it, then process it, then convert it back to analog for output.
--Bob
post #11020 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The multi-channel speaker pre-amp outputs of the D2 put out an analog audio signal -- which is of course what any audio power amp is expecting.

[There is a digital audio output available on the D2 intended for use with digital recorders. A digital audio input must be selected.]

I don't know the details of how your particular external EQ works, but most audio processors these days, when fed an analog audio input, have to DIGITIZE it prior to processing, and then reconvert it back to analog for output.

Indeed if you feed an analog audio input into the D2, it too must digitize that prior to processing. The processed result is then converted back to analog for output. If you choose to have the D2 not process that analog input, only then is it passed through to the output still as analog (without digitizing or conversion back to analog).

The data on a CD is recorded in digital form. The real-world, analog audio was converted to digital as part of the CD authoring process. So if you use the digital outputs of the CD to the D2 the next conversion will happen in the D2, after that digital audio input is processed by the D2, as that processed digital signal is converted to analog for the pre-amp outputs of the D2. What happens next, in your external EQ, depends on the details of how it is engineered, but I would expect that it would take that analog input and digitize it, then process it, then convert it back to analog for output.
--Bob

Bob....thanks!

Yes, I believe my EQ can only process & do its thing while its digital so it converts the analog to digital then back to analog for the amp to do its thing. There are way too many conversion for analog to digital then back to analog!

Any idea how the D2 will process it. Will it be able to process it directly if the input signal is digit (ie CDP) thus taking 1 D/A conversion out or will it convert the original signal to analog then back to digital to process and back to analog out the pre-outs?
post #11021 of 42682
Well, my 4th D2 is in da house! I loaded 1.29j and everything seems ok so far. It came with 1.21 which didn't have the mch PCM crackling fix (1.21d had it). My dealer also had a new D2 with ARC sitting on the floor ready to go out to a customer. The box is bigger than the "non-ARC" D2 box. He also had a couple video boards for replacements for the s-video issue.

larry
post #11022 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Well, my 4th D2 is in da house! I loaded 1.29j and everything seems ok so far. It came with 1.21 which didn't have the mch PCM crackling fix (1.21d had it). My dealer also had a new D2 with ARC sitting on the floor ready to go out to a customer. The box is bigger than the "non-ARC" D2 box. He also had a couple video boards for replacements for the s-video issue.

larry

Larry, can you clarify what the "s-video issue" is? Does it have anything to do with the OSD for the Setup menu?
post #11023 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabbit636 View Post

Bob....thanks!

Yes, I believe my EQ can only process & do its thing while its digital so it converts the analog to digital then back to analog for the amp to do its thing. There are way too many conversion for analog to digital then back to analog!

Any idea how the D2 will process it. Will it be able to process it directly if the input signal is digit (ie CDP) thus taking 1 D/A conversion out or will it convert the original signal to analog then back to digital to process and back to analog out the pre-outs?

The D2 takes the digital audio input and "upsamples" it to 192KHz -- still as digital audio (if it is a traditional bitstream format from a DVD, i.e., DD5.1 or DTS it unpacks the bitstream into digital audio (PCM) and then upsamples that). Then it does whatever processing you have set it to do -- bass steering or surround sound for example, or the new Room EQ stuff real soon now. Only when it is done with all the processing does it convert the audio to analog for output.
--Bob
post #11024 of 42682
Is it safe to reload same firmware back into d2 ? I have 1.29j which I just instlled a few days ago and was working fine, then last night went into setup menu and when I came back out lost picture for a little while then it came back but when I change the volume it goes to blue screen then back to picture. Through s-video when I adjust volume it puts lots of noise in the picture also can"t get on screen display for setup menu, video source #7 key menu comes on screen fine. I already tryed turning power of and back on with no luck. So wondering if I should reload firmware or does anyone think its a different problem? thanks scott
post #11025 of 42682
scottshd,
It is safe to re-install the firmware. Don't cut any corners in the instructions. Do it like you were doing it for the first time.

It is certainly worth a try. Before you do that try this:

In Setup / Save and Restore Settings, do a Save User Settings (unless you already have them saved in there which would be even better). Then do a Reload Factory Defaults. You will lose video, but you can continue using the Front Panel display. Then do a Restore User Settings.

Once that finishes, Back out of Setup and do a complete power off (including the back panel switch) and back on to get a completely fresh start.

With any luck, if whatever you were doing in the Setup menu caused a system setting to become corrupted, this may fix it without you having to do a firmware re-install.

If it doesn't fix the problem, try doing a Reload Factory Defaults and then see if you can get clean, internally generated video and menu displays that way (i.e., manually reenter the Setup / Video Output stuff if you don't automatically have a picture, but leave everything else at Factory Default). See if adjusting volume still causes issues. If the Factory Default settings work, you may need to ignore your Saved User Settings and re-enter things manually.

However given the problems you had with your earlier install, and now this, I'm leaning towards this being a hardware problem. Since you have been setting things up, one thing to check is that all your cables are properly inserted (both ends) and without any loose hairs of wire or whatever that might be shorting something out (again, both ends). Another thing to check is whether the ventilation around your D2 is adequate. But failing anything obvious here, if the settings and software redo don't fix things for you, you will need to get Anthem tech support on the case.
--Bob
post #11026 of 42682
Bob thanks again. tryed your first suggestions no luck. reloaded firmware all is fine again. don"t know if its a firmware glitch or if its a problem starting with the s-video output on my d2 I"ll call anthem on monday to see what they think. thanks again scott
post #11027 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Larry, can you clarify what the "s-video issue" is? Does it have anything to do with the OSD for the Setup menu?

The s-video circuit generates the characters for the OSD (setup menu). If you don't get the OSD displayed on your display there's a good chance the s-video circuitry is at fault. It's a known issue. If you can plug in a s-video source from a DVD player or stb and it plays fine for more than 5 or 10 minutes then you may not have an s-video problem. Earlier I described what happened when I tried s-video from the DVD player.

larry
post #11028 of 42682
I am using a PS3 for Blu-Ray playback via HDMI. When I choose 'Linear PCM' in the PS3, and I set the D2 to PLIIx I get very little audio on the rear speakers. On the other hand, when I set the PS3 for 'Bitstream' and the D2 converts the incoming 'Dolby Digital' to PLIIx I get much more audio thru the rears. I know that I am not supposed to use the Bitstream setting, so what am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

David
post #11029 of 42682
For all those of you out there that use the PS3 for gaming, should I set the video output for extended RGB instead of 4:4:4 since the input status on the d2 says RGB for games?

When I change the video output from the D2 to extended RGB, the setup text of the D2 looks sharper and brighter, the background color also looks richer. During gameplay though blacks look darker. I have selected full range RGB on the PS3 and I have selected extended RGB on the input side of the D2.

Thanks

John
post #11030 of 42682
John,

I haven't really done much comparing to see which seting is the best and I leave it on 4:4:4 on both PS3 and D2 which is my setting for movies. I will try out your recomendations!

Which setting do you use on the D2 for movies? PS3 for movies?

Thanks
post #11031 of 42682
Should I have the D2 outputting YCbCr 4:2:2 instead of 4:4:4 when hooked up to a Jvc Rs-1? If yes should I have it always output this format for all my input sources? SA8300, ps3, oppo 970.

Thanks

John
post #11032 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabbit636 View Post

John,

I haven't really done much comparing to see which seting is the best and I leave it on 4:4:4 on both PS3 and D2 which is my setting for movies. I will try out your recomendations!

Which setting do you use on the D2 for movies? PS3 for movies?

Thanks

I have been using HDTV and 4:4:4 in the setup of the D2 for video output for everything thus far. The ps3 automatically selects YCbCr for BD movies but for games the ps3 outputs RGB into the D2. So I've been playing with outputting extended RGB out of the D2 to my projector. I've also selected full range RGB in the ps3 menu.

John
post #11033 of 42682
John,

Unfortunately I am no expert on this topic. I did eventually tried to see which one gave me the best picture quality between a few out the output options but couldn't really see any big noticable difference so I just left it on 4:4:4.

I hope someone can shed some light on these tweaks in case some of us are not getting the most from our precious D2s!

Cheers
post #11034 of 42682
An update on my 1.29j experience. It seemed to be working fine after a difficult download then the next day I had no video until several power cycles.

I reloaded 1.29j with no problems. Again, everything seemed to work OK right after the download- The next day I had no video again.

I decided to roll back the software to 1.21d when my nightmare began. I kept getting failed upgrade messages (fails at different times, but most seemed to fail with a message "unable to exit debug mode").

After about 2 hours, I finally was able to reload 1.21d successfully. When I went to restore my user settings, I got an error message indicating that the D2 had only factory settings stored. This all led to another 1-2 hours to re-set up my system manually.

1.21d is now working fine. Hopefully Anthem will figure out what is going on with this firmware (for what it is worth, I have kept current with every firmware version that has come out, and I have not had any problems like this).

Here is the basics of my system if anyone has any thoughts about where the problem is (or maybe it is just buggy firmware):

D2/PVA7
Z1 -Panasonic TH65px600u connected via HDMI
Z2 - LG26LX1D connected via Component and composite
Z3 - JVC 26" LCD connected via composite

Tivo S3 connected via HDMI, component and S-video (alternate connections for Z 2 & 3)
Sony PS3 connected via HDMI
Sony VCR connected vial S-Video and composite
Sony 5-disc DVD/SACD player connected via S-video and composite
Sony 300 disc DVD player connected via component, S-video and composite.
DLO HomeDock Pro iPod dock connected via S-video
Panamax 5100EX
Denon LD player connected via S-Video and composite
Harmon Kardon tape deck
post #11035 of 42682
For the folks wondering about YCbCr 4:4:4 vs YCbCr 4:2:2 vs Studio RGB vs Extended RGB on input and output settings in the D2 and on settings in your source and display devices:

Read the posts on "Data Format" linked in the Technology and Terminology section of the first post of this thread. Also read the "Video Calibration for non-ISF Techs" post in the Setup links.

The simple answers are:

1) DO NOT CHANGE your Video Output settings, or the video level settings in your Display, just because the input source is sending something unexpected some of the time. There is one and only one "best" output setup between the D2 and your display. It is the Anthem's job to convert any input type to that "best" output type that you specify in Setup / Video Output and that you calibrate using your display's video level controls. Setup your Anthem's Setup / Video Output first (as described in the linked posts -- using the Anthem's internally generated test patterns in the Video Source Adjust menu and using the display's own video level controls for calibration) and then setup your input source settings. Oddness from any source device needs to be corrected using the settings in the source device itself or in the Anthem's Video Source Adjust / Picture menu for that input. NOT by changing settings on the display side of things.

2) For HDMI devices your starting point should by YCbCr 4:4:4. For DVI devices your starting point should be Studio RGB (not Extended RGB), OR look for a setting in the DVI device that configures it for use with a normal home theater setup as opposed to use with computer equipment. Studio RGB may just be labeled "RGB" in a source or display device. There will be odd cases where you need to do something different from that default starting point, but start there.

3) It is almost never the case that Extended RGB is the right choice for home theater use in either a source, a display, or the Anthem. Discovering that you have to use it probably means you are fighting a bug in your source or in your display, or that you have manually (INCORRECTLY!) forced your source or display to use it instead of the Studio RGB (or just "RGB") it would normally use, or that you are using computer-style equipment which is not designed to fit in naturally in a home theater setup. Studio RGB is also sometimes indicated in source or display device menus by "Black=16", or "IRE=7.5", or "Blacks=Normal", or "Blacks=Lighter" (in sources), or "Blacks=Darker" (in displays). Unfortunately, the people who dream up these menus haven't bothered to try to all use the same terminology. The setting you are looking for will have only two choices (i.e, don't confuse it with a multi-level control such as Brightness or Contrast) and it will be named as something having to do with imaging darkness or blacks. In some cases you may have to just try both ways to try to figure out what the heck they are calling Studio RGB. Do NOT be confused by terminology such as Extended or Enhanced blacks into thinking that's what you want. The people writing that stuff in manuals are clueless. It is much more likely that what you want will be labeled "Normal".

4.1) You can't properly compare whether one of these settings is better or worse than another until you RE-CALIBRATE your basic video levels (Blacks, Whites, Colors, Sharpness) BOTH WAYS and only THEN do your A/B comparison. Selecting a different data format changes how the data is encoded and video levels need to be adjusted to compensate.

4.2) In particular, if you are seeing one setting as producing obviously darker or lighter imaging than the other in the near blacks then you have NOT yet properly re-calibrated levels both ways! The real differences between these Data Formats (i.e, after both ways are properly calibrated) is more subtle than that. Note that if you set a source or display to use the "wrong" data format, then some devices will not even give you enough video calibration control range to get things properly calibrated again. This should be a clue that you shouldn't be using that data format.

4.3) If you are changing an INPUT side data format setting, then re-calibration needs to be done using the Anthem's Video Source Adjust / Picture controls or (more likely) the video output format or level controls in the SOURCE DEVICE. Do NOT alter the settings you already have in Setup / Video Output or in your display! If you are changing an OUTPUT side data format setting, then re-calibration needs to be done using your DISPLAY'S video level controls -- based on the Anthem's internally generated test patterns in the Video Source Adjust menu. Do NOT alter the Anthem's Video Source Adjust / Picture (i.e., input) settings or your source's settings. I.e., there is a proper calibration for the output side (which should be done first) and then a completely separate calibration to fine tune things on the input side. Having to make major corrections in the Anthem's Video Source Adjust / Picture settings for some source is an indication that you have goofed up somewhere.

5) Try to keep Data Format and Color Space separate in your mind. They are different things. See the posts linked above. Unfortunately, Anthem's Video Source Adjust / Picture menu lumps the Color Space setting for YCbCr inputs and the Data Format setting for RGB inputs into the same "Input Color Space" menu. You need to check mark a setting for each of these two settings in that menu. The Anthem will automatically use the YCbCr Color Space selection if the source is sending YCbCr and will use the RGB Data Format selection if the source is sending RGB.
--Bob
post #11036 of 42682
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

The s-video circuit generates the characters for the OSD (setup menu). If you don't get the OSD displayed on your display there's a good chance the s-video circuitry is at fault. It's a known issue. If you can plug in a s-video source from a DVD player or stb and it plays fine for more than 5 or 10 minutes then you may not have an s-video problem. Earlier I described what happened when I tried s-video from the DVD player.

larry

Thanks Larry, that's what I thought. I believe that this is exactly the problem that I have. I think I need to get this resolved, because the issue seems to be getting worse (the Setup menu becomes unstable and disappears entirely more often and sooner than before).

post #11037 of 42682
I'd like to know the answer to this also.
I was just watching RATATOULIE using PS3 , HDMI to the AVM50, I checked UNCOMPRESSED PCM on the bluray disc then set the PS3 to Bitstream by mistake, I realised what I did and changed the PS3 back to LINEAR PCM, they was no differance at all. Sound wasn't louder or clearer. It sounds the same. which also wasn't bad.
Note that when it was set to Bitstream the PS3 was outputting the same numbers. LINEAR PCM 4.8 AT 6.9MPS as it showed when it was set to Linear PCM on the PS3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dschamis View Post

I am using a PS3 for Blu-Ray playback via HDMI. When I choose 'Linear PCM' in the PS3, and I set the D2 to PLIIx I get very little audio on the rear speakers. On the other hand, when I set the PS3 for 'Bitstream' and the D2 converts the incoming 'Dolby Digital' to PLIIx I get much more audio thru the rears. I know that I am not supposed to use the Bitstream setting, so what am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

David
post #11038 of 42682
The player can't generate a bitstream on the fly from an uncompressed PCM track, so it is probably ignoring your change of setting to bitstream.
--Bob
post #11039 of 42682
Hello. First I looked over lots of the links in the first post and can't seem to find an answer. I know the D2 will output 1080p24 to a compatible display but will the avm50 do the same and for that matter if I don't want scaling and want to rely the player will the AVM40 passthrough 1080p24?

thanks so much for the answer in advance!

jim
post #11040 of 42682
The AVM-50 and the D2 share the same video processing hardware. So yes, the AVM-50 will do the same things with 1080p/24 that the D2 will do given they both have the same level of Anthem software installed.

I don't know the answer on the AVM-40. Its HDMI video is spec'ed for up to 1080p/60, but I don't know if there are any known issues with 1080p/24 when using it.

Note that even though the AVM-40 does not have the video processor (scaler, etc.) of the AVM-50, the HDMI video signal is still not simply "passed through". It has to be "handled" by the AVM-40 both to extract the audio and to do color space and data format input/output conversion. Simply put, the HDMI output signal is not simply switched in the AVM-40. It is generated afresh from the input to the output. So something could have been done wrong in that for /24 video. I just don't know.
--Bob
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